NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's another one:
http://virtualcanadian.org/


I thought this pic wasn't bad:
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/con04485.html

It also raises a good possibility. What do others think?
Seems like back in 1861-1865 we fought a war with Democrats who thought they should have won an election,allowing them to keep their slaves,then when they lost it, deciding to try something like this. Seems also we kicked their arses pretty well.
Anyway, I say go for it. But however then,each of those Canada-United states would also be split, as large portions of those states you gave to Canada, voted with our side. San Diego county, Orange county, Riverside county,most of the CA counties actually voted Republican,with the exception of the north, so you can have SF area, all they have is wine and the 49ers and Giants anyway ;) We might invade them for the wine,but we will just shove the 49ers and Giants up to Vancouver and let you all keep them;)

I think, if you'd like to try and bring that situation about, you better stock up on guns and ammo!
Yeah :)Only problem is liberals are against guns and ammo, so guess they would have to turn conservative quick, at which point they would suddenly say"what did we do this for?" :)

I find it hard to believe people can be so stupid, what do you think would happen to the U.S. if we suddenly stopped spending money on the military. Face it most of the world hates us, do you really think we'd be safe if we didn't have the biggest "stick" so to speak


We could cut our budget in half and still have the biggest stick. We do agree on one thing. I to find it hard to believe people can be so stupid.

I could not feel less allegiance, loyalty, or connection to this government if it had been installed by a conquering foreign power. As Thomas Friedman said in his column today, "We don't just disagree on what America should be doing; we disagree on what America is."


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpfried06110604nov06,1,2566359.story?coll=orl-opinion-headlines

I could not feel less allegiance, loyalty, or connection to this government if it had been installed by a conquering foreign power. As Thomas Friedman said in his column today, "We don't just disagree on what America should be doing; we disagree on what America is."


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpfried06110604nov06,1,2566359.story?coll=orl-opinion-headlines
The majority as displayed by the widest election margin in the last 4 elections, would have felt the same if Mr. Kerry had won.I do think there must be some middle ground somewhere, but really with comments from the left calling the majority a bunch of idiots, and just so much arrogance, I do not know where that middle ground is yet.

I could not feel less allegiance, loyalty, or connection to this government if it had been installed by a conquering foreign power. [/url]

One of my friends, a conservative, told a protester yesterday "America is not like you." Now, I've always opposed this kind of rhetoric, but in this case there's a valid point hidden within it that he might not even have intended to make. The kind of rhetoric that compares this election to a hostile takeover belongs, as far I've seen, to an angry minority of Kerry voters who claim to speak on behalf of the 49%. The Democratic Party did nothing to deserve a win. They failed to nominate a strong candidate capable of winning on his own merit. They failed to elaborate on their specific plans for the nation. They failed to present a hopeful picture of America's future. People want more than, as Bush so aptly put it, "a litany of complaints," and they're not going to vote for change just for the sake of change.

Rather unfortunate that the only parties interested in providing clear solutions are suppressed by ballot access laws and such.

This is a sorry sight that the liberals are desperate enough to believe anything.

Aeruillin, Ag3nt Smith, Alucardus, Aminion, Ammaria, Amsterdam Junior, Anatania, Anigpa, Arantia, Arkives, Athine, Athyrn, Azimov, Azzion, Baltasia, Barcelania, Bellah Bellah Land, Betelgeuse XII, Bibu, Bliars, Bosworth II, Btannia, Callisdrun, Camboziana, Canadian Stereotypes, Carthage and Troy, Cho Arrim, Chodolo, Dann-O, Darsylonian Theocrats, Daya, Demn, Devalyn, Diamond Mind, Dirty Gutter, Eastern Newfoundland, EL CID THE HERO, Eldinfyrd, Envelope Cutters, Erlandi, Fablosia, FataMorgana, Flamingle, Forgotten Convicts, General Mike, Godular, Great Agnostica, Green Planet, GroovyCool, Hackland, Hakuryuu, Hardt and Negri, Haris Najam, Harrylandia, HawthorneHeights, Hellbutts, Hobbslandia, Hoptinland, IberiaLustinia, Iceasruler, Ielikea, Igwanarno, Imerukkka, Inkana, Israelities et Buddist, Ivarka, Ixis, Jannaisjoy, Japaica Insanity, Jaxusism, Jimblia, Jjuulliiaann, Jonothana, Kamboucha, Kiara II, KillingAllYourFriends, Krag-Riras, Kryozerkia, Kshitij, Kurioes, Kxtigerlxi, Laueria, Lothariana, Lyzantoi, Marinanth, Mattemis, Meizland, Metallinauts, Mierna, Minchion, Model Democracy, Natallah-Rim, Nation of Fortune, Neo Siberia, Neolithica, New South Britain, Nobua, North Chelmsfordia, NouveauxTerre, Oxylus, Pacitalia, Paco De Taco, Parratoga, Penguenia, Physiognymy, Ponsonbybrit, Potsdamia, Punshrkng, Putternam, Rabbit Cakes, Reasonabilityness, Republic Coruscant, Retardia y Morella, Roxonillia, Ruffenburg, Sboria, See u Jimmy, Sharavena, Shubaltz, Sodium Hydroxia, SoopaDaddy, South Mark, Southey, Soviet Narco State, Squishiville, Stalankia, Sticks n Stuff, Strong Sads Room, Sumamba Buwhan, Talarez, Talking Stomach, Tanuio, Teh Gayness, Terradog, The Isle of Ewe, The Isle of Skye, The Land Of Pink, The States of Narvia, Thinklikeme, Todarrum, Tremalkier, Unfree People, V[s Pokhoronim, Verdia, Vexon, Viduekzuj, Vren Cabrera, Warta Endor, Watertown NNY Jews, Xegnog, Yetter, Yevon of Spira, Zasxistan, Zoidbergians, Zukes

^Now that is at least borderline flaming. Why on earth should you take away their constitutional right?

^Now that is at least borderline flaming. Why on earth should you take away their constitutional right?
They should have it taken away as they buy into any conspiracy theory and don't have the ability to form their own opinions and fall for simple propaganda.

No. For the simple reason that as soon as you start to do things like that the word "democracy" looses its meaning. So what if they belive in conspiracies? It's not gonna change the fact that W is the president now, and for the next four years. I'm no fan of Bush, far from it, but at least I am enough of a realist to know that he's here to stay, for the next term at least...

http://www.gregpalast.com/

Thank's but the free world and most of the US citizens abroad were allready convinced about this.
That is what US citizens can see when they travell abroad and see free media. :eek: But, stil, we tend to see FOX as a standard instead of the NYT, LAT and other free media like the BBC.

Ever tought how they think about it in India Or W's friend Puttin in Russia or Italy Berlusconi stations ?(well those are really the "free media" we need in support of the US)

Thank's but the free world and most of the US citizens abroad were allready convinced about this.
That is what US citizens can see when they travell abroad and see free media. :eek: But, stil, we tend to see FOX as a standard instead of the NYT, LAT and other free media like the BBC.

Ever tought how they think about it in India Or W's friend Puttin in Russia or Italy Berlusconi stations ?(well those are really the "free media" we need in support of the US)
Putin a friend of bush?
*laughs so hard he falls out of his chair*
The two of them hate each other. Maybe I'm exxagerating a bit, but they are not friends, far from it.

Putin a friend of bush?
*laughs so hard he falls out of his chair*
The two of them hate each other. Maybe I'm exxagerating a bit, but they are not friends, far from it.

Putin did support Bush over Kerry in the election. I have never heard anything about Bush and Putin hating each other.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/10/18/putin.iraq/

Putin a friend of bush?
*laughs so hard he falls out of his chair*
.

Putin was the first to hail Bush. Why? Because both have a dirty war and they need eachother for that. You know, wether it be Iraq or Grozny, oil money makes friends...

Putin was the first to hail Bush. Why? Because both have a dirty war and they need eachother for that. You know, wether it be Iraq or Grozny, oil money makes friends...
More like, both have seen the results of appeasing terrorism. The same result as the appeasement of Hitler in WW2. Give an inch, they want a mile. I have nothing against the liberals supposedly caring for their fellow man, etc...but the fact they seem to pick and choose which men, is annoying. They say they are against killing,yet hold in high regard terrorists.They say they want more freedom,yet push for laws to ban such things as gun ownership,even cigarette smoking,but quick to want legalization of marijuana...someone explain the reasoning behind this,PLEASE...and MAYBE if it makes sense, I will agree you are all not just hypocrites. Also explain how your precious UN has done NOTHING, AGAIN, AS USUAL, to stop what is ethnic cleansing in Sudan.Liberals believe in letting monstrous regimes continue,for the simple fact they are afraid to actually act to change,saving the lives of thousands,at the expense of what would likely be a very short assault,but no, that would be against the UN do nothing policy?And now to hear Putin lumped in, who is going through his own war against terrorists who are trying to ruin his own country(Chechnya is part of Russia, to say it isn't is just dumb)and somehow bring the stupid argument of oil back in, is amazing. The US and Russia neither one need the mideast oil, and if we did, we could take it, and there would be nothing Europe could do to stop it. In your own country's heyday, they did the same, as did the rest of Europe throughout recorded history.For that reason, listening to advice on international relationships and morals from Europeans, who themselves did far worse , gets quite old. What I find most amusing however, is the European governments trying to stand in line now to be the first to make "friends"again with the US.

This is a sorry sight that the liberals are desperate enough to believe anything.
The only people whose voting rights should be taken away are those who choose to leave the US and live abroad now. That is fair anyway,those outside the US cannot have a good understanding of what is going on in the US. It is not the same if your company or govt need you out of the country. Just those who now are talking about going to Canada because of the election, and the like.

One of my friends, a conservative, told a protester yesterday "America is not like you." Now, I've always opposed this kind of rhetoric, but in this case there's a valid point hidden within it that he might not even have intended to make. The kind of rhetoric that compares this election to a hostile takeover belongs, as far I've seen, to an angry minority of Kerry voters who claim to speak on behalf of the 49%. The Democratic Party did nothing to deserve a win. They failed to nominate a strong candidate capable of winning on his own merit. They failed to elaborate on their specific plans for the nation. They failed to present a hopeful picture of America's future. People want more than, as Bush so aptly put it, "a litany of complaints," and they're not going to vote for change just for the sake of change.

Rather unfortunate that the only parties interested in providing clear solutions are suppressed by ballot access laws and such.
That is true. This was one of the wider popular vote margins in American presidential elections, and the ones on the losing side, I can understand being upset, one side must lose, and it is natural not to like that. However, the rhetoric by, admittedly the minority OF the minority, who continue to insist that the majority of their countrymen were wrong, are the ones dividing the nation.

Putin was the first to hail Bush. Why? Because both have a dirty war and they need eachother for that. You know, wether it be Iraq or Grozny, oil money makes friends...

Precisely.

For that reason, listening to advice on international relationships and morals from Europeans, who themselves did far worse , gets quite old. What I find most amusing however, is the European governments trying to stand in line now to be the first to make "friends"again with the US.

Same goes for Bush. Just read his little speech he had right after the election. It´s called "decencey" and NOT making friends. Bush fucked a lot of Europeans over with his warmongering. But finally both sides realized they kind of need each other. I doubt any of those governments want to be "friends" with Bush, but with the US - and vice versa.

. What I find most amusing however, is the European governments trying to stand in line now to be the first to make "friends"again with the US.

Never saw those EU governments or do you practice wishfull thinking :D
And no, White Russia, Mongolia, Kirgizisthan are not European, when you are thinking that those are :D :p

Come on morron; nobody here did, at max a polite form by a secretary of state. You well know, that if a real elected gov. would by in charge, then those democracies would send something instead of the condolencies for the US citizens now, divided between far right and the centre.

Sorry you lose, my and ALL other govs here did not send anything, DO YOU WATCH FOX? Must be, let this be a message of us, liar, we send things to elected people like Clinton but hell "friends again"?

"Friends again" with a Leninist of the right that has half his citizens against him? That breaks all international law. Hell we even prefer a nuclear war between us then be friends with the new Adolf (and his familly ties between the Nazis and the Bushes) in the DC that divides his people that ask for a UN intervention.

Hell, no, the free world will never like W Adolf and blind FOX people lik eyou that think that the BBC is a brand of Cornflakes.

Jezus, it must be easy to live in a dumb and ignorant brain like yours :rolleyes:

"Friends again" with a Leninist of the right that has half his citizens against him? That breaks all international law.

Again with the tired "half the country voted against Bush" rhetoric. World governments have been dealing with American administrations against whom half the country voted pretty consistently since George Washington left office. Don't give me the myth about America being more divided nowadays, either. Yes, the number of people at each extreme has grown, but the extremists are still minorities on their respective sides. Kerry wasn't a strong enough candidate to win a majority on his own merit, but some people did actually vote for him because they respected him or agreed with his policies. Others voted for him based on subjective perception of his ablilities, or tradition, or a coin flip, or any number of other reasons. The point is, the group that voted for Kerry solely because they hate Bush with every fiber of their being is a lot smaller than half the country.

Kerry lost, Bush stole no election ever. Except for maybe an election for class president, but that's excusable.

Look it, on the poll, in NS General for God's sake, people are saying that Bush didn't steal the election. When General even concedes that, well, duh. Please, don't go TRA on us.

Never saw those EU governments or do you practice wishfull thinking :D
And no, White Russia, Mongolia, Kirgizisthan are not European, when you are thinking that those are :D :p

Come on morron; nobody here did, at max a polite form by a secretary of state. You well know, that if a real elected gov. would by in charge, then those democracies would send something instead of the condolencies for the US citizens now, divided between far right and the centre.

Sorry you lose, my and ALL other govs here did not send anything, DO YOU WATCH FOX? Must be, let this be a message of us, liar, we send things to elected people like Clinton but hell "friends again"?

"Friends again" with a Leninist of the right that has half his citizens against him? That breaks all international law. Hell we even prefer a nuclear war between us then be friends with the new Adolf (and his familly ties between the Nazis and the Bushes) in the DC that divides his people that ask for a UN intervention.

Hell, no, the free world will never like W Adolf and blind FOX people lik eyou that think that the BBC is a brand of Cornflakes.

Jezus, it must be easy to live in a dumb and ignorant brain like yours :rolleyes:
Actually, since you used the word first,albeit incorrectly spelled,thus showing your ignorance of our language as well as our politics, it can't be flaming if I were to call you a moron, right? But I won't, anyway.
I get my news from real world experiences, NOT from Fox, though I do not see them as biased, either, and not from any other source, though I do read all and see all of them. I make my decisions based on facts I know from experience to be true. I assume you do also, although your defense of a biased newsource would seem to imply otherwise.
Also, I find it interesting you would approve a war between us(which obviously YOU would not fight in) but apparently oppose the war against a TRUE dictator and thug, Saddam Hussein.Such is the liberal European mindset.
And wondering who would actually fight that war, as I know and work with and have worked with MANY European soldiers and officers, most of whom have already told me THEY are HAPPY Bush won.

Again with the tired "half the country voted against Bush" rhetoric. World governments have been dealing with American administrations against whom half the country voted pretty consistently since George Washington left office. Don't give me the myth about America being more divided nowadays, either. Yes, the number of people at each extreme has grown, but the extremists are still minorities on their respective sides. Kerry wasn't a strong enough candidate to win a majority on his own merit, but some people did actually vote for him because they respected him or agreed with his policies. Others voted for him based on subjective perception of his ablilities, or tradition, or a coin flip, or any number of other reasons. The point is, the group that voted for Kerry solely because they hate Bush with every fiber of their being is a lot smaller than half the country.
Exactly, and I voted for Bush, NOT hardly because I saw Kerry as evil, but because of what appeared to me from personal experience to be a belief that Bush can do a better job from my perspective. Had Kerry won, I would have been disappointed, but not treasonous as SOME(hardly all) of Kerry's supporters have become.Personally I saw Kerry as a rather good guy, surrounded by people I did not particularly care for.

I must say that I find it amusing, to say the least, how many Europeans, Canadians, etc, continue to talk about a divided United States, while yourselves ALL living, in nations where the "ruling party" never even achieves a 50% vote. Your parliaments are divided into so many parties with so many separate interests, it is no wonder your governments are never usually able to do more than talk. You should understand, that if the US was a multi-party democracy, the picture would be roughly what every single one of you has in your own govt...look at it this way, Bush would have taken the Prime Ministership(another lack of democracy, the people don't elect these Prime Ministers, you don't trust them to? Usually your parliaments elect them after the people elect the parliament) Bush would have won ours, with a coalition of several parties, not all "religious right" as you seem to believe.People voted for him for many reasons.

I must say that I find it amusing, to say the least, how many Europeans, Canadians, etc, continue to talk about a divided United States, while yourselves ALL living, in nations where the "ruling party" never even achieves a 50% vote. Your parliaments are divided into so many parties with so many separate interests, it is no wonder your governments are never usually able to do more than talk. You should understand, that if the US was a multi-party democracy, the picture would be roughly what every single one of you has in your own govt...look at it this way, Bush would have taken the Prime Ministership(another lack of democracy, the people don't elect these Prime Ministers, you don't trust them to? Usually your parliaments elect them after the people elect the parliament) Bush would have won ours, with a coalition of several parties, not all "religious right" as you seem to believe.People voted for him for many reasons.
You are only speculating that Bush would have won the support of a "coalition of several parties". There is no basis in fact that you can claim such certainty?

The fact is, that whether he won or not, Kerry has conceded the election, which means that Bush wins. Concession was the right thing to do. It shows that Kerry supports Bush and our country. We don't need another recount fight on our hands, as we are already doing more than enough fighting in Iraq.

You are only speculating that Bush would have won the support of a "coalition of several parties". There is no basis in fact that you can claim such certainty?
The fact that Bush won a majority of the outright vote means it is certainly NOT speculation.
That said,however, was just telling all of you outsiders who do not understand , that "Republicans" as well as "Democrats"can not be lumped into one group each,as all of you are fond of doing,most Dems I know voted for Bush as well, and myself,I had nothing personal against Senator Kerry,either.
All of you on the outside,with only biased liberal media to tell you what is going on, look at our country as divided, it is not.The majority of voters who voted for EITHER candidate, could also conceivably have voted for the other,there are only a very small percentage of "fringe"on the left,and yes, on the right as well(Who I find equally as strange,for the record)

Same goes for Bush. Just read his little speech he had right after the election. It´s called "decencey" and NOT making friends. Bush fucked a lot of Europeans over with his warmongering. But finally both sides realized they kind of need each other. I doubt any of those governments want to be "friends" with Bush, but with the US - and vice versa.
Yes, he messed up the Oil for Food scam,I am sure,as you said,that "f***** a lot of Europeans" I am fairly certain Kerry would have done the same, however. And if those Europeans did not want to get caught, they shouldn't have played the game, so to speak.

... or Kerry conceding could just be a tactical manouver to be able to win the next election. Conspiracy theories are always fun to read about, but they aren't always completely correct... but who am I to have an oppinion in the american election, as a european? :P

wow...we have 170 complete morons on this site...

congradulations to:

Aeruillin, Ag3nt Smith, Alucardus, Aminion, Ammaria, Amsterdam Junior, Anatania, Anigpa, Arantia, Arkives, Athine, Athyrn, Azimov, Azzion, Baltasia, Barcelania, Beasting It, Beefeater, Bellah Bellah Land, Betelgeuse XII, Bibu, Bigtallguy20, Bliars, Bosworth II, Btannia, Calle-Dublin, Callisdrun, Camboziana, Canadian Stereotypes, Carthage and Troy, Cho Arrim, Chodolo, Columbian Nations, Dann-O, Darsylonian Theocrats, Daya, Demn, Devalyn, Diamond Mind, Dirty Gutter, Docekaheedron, Eastern Newfoundland, EL CID THE HERO, Eldinfyrd, Envelope Cutters, Erlandi, Fablosia, FataMorgana, Flamingle, Forgotten Convicts, General Mike, Gnomish Republics, Godular, Gouden Kanaat, Great Agnostica, Green Planet, GroovyCool, Hackland, Hakuryuu, Hardt and Negri, Haris Najam, Harryhausen, Harrylandia, HawthorneHeights, Hellbutts, Hobbslandia, Hoptinland, IberiaLustinia, Iceasruler, Ielikea, Igwanarno, Imerukkka, Inkana, Israelities et Buddist, Ivarka, Ixis, Jannaisjoy, Japaica Insanity, Jaxusism, Jimblia, Jjuulliiaann, Jonothana, Kamboucha, Kiara II, KillingAllYourFriends, Krag-Riras, Kryozerkia, Kshitij, Kurioes, Kxtigerlxi, Laueria, Least well known NSer, Lothariana, Lyzantoi, Marinanth, Mattemis, Meizland, Metallinauts, Meulmania, Mierna, Minchion, Model Democracy, Natallah-Rim, Nation of Fortune, Neo Siberia, Neolithica, New South Britain, Nobua, Nookyoolerr Strategery, North Chelmsfordia, NouveauxTerre, Oxtailsoup, Oxylus, Pacitalia, Paco De Taco, Parratoga, Penguenia, Physiognymy, Ponsonbybrit, Potsdamia, Punshrkng, Putternam, Rabbit Cakes, Rastafaries, Reasonabilityness, Republic Coruscant, Retardia y Morella, Roxonillia, Ruffenburg, Sboria, See u Jimmy, Sharavena, Shubaltz, Sodium Hydroxia, SoopaDaddy, South Mark, Southey, Soviet Narco State, Squishiville, Stalankia, Sticks n Stuff, Strong Sads Room, Sumamba Buwhan, Talarez, Talking Stomach, Tanuio, Teh Gayness, Terradog, The Arch Wobbly, The Isle of Ewe, The Isle of Skye, The Land Of Pink, The States of Narvia, Thinklikeme, Todarrum, Tremalkier, Unelected Leaders, Unfree People, Vas Pokhoronim, Verdia, Vexon, Viduekzuj, Vren Cabrera, Warta Endor, Watertown NNY Jews, Xegnog, Yetter, Yevon of Spira, Zasxistan, Zoidbergians, Zukes

for once again not using their brains. You guys win the prize.

Har-Dee-Har-Har. It figures you thick headed Demorcrats can dish it out, but cant take it. Kerry lost, by both Electorial Votes, and Popular Votes. Stop with all the fucking bitching already. Kerry even ADMITTED he lost. Closest Race in American History, largest turnout in History, and you Liberals cant accept your guy lost.

Shut the hell up, its over, its done for, Hopefully Micheal Moore could hopefully keel over and die...i can dream..

I must say that I find it amusing, to say the least, how many Europeans, Canadians, etc, continue to talk about a divided United States, while yourselves ALL living, in nations where the "ruling party" never even achieves a 50% vote. Your parliaments are divided into so many parties with so many separate interests, it is no wonder your governments are never usually able to do more than talk. You should understand, that if the US was a multi-party democracy, the picture would be roughly what every single one of you has in your own govt...look at it this way, Bush would have taken the Prime Ministership(another lack of democracy, the people don't elect these Prime Ministers, you don't trust them to? Usually your parliaments elect them after the people elect the parliament) Bush would have won ours, with a coalition of several parties, not all "religious right" as you seem to believe.People voted for him for many reasons.

We have parties that cooperate

What the hell are you talking about!? Bush has an IQ of 91, the lowest of any US president.

That was only a hoax. I grieve for your powers of comprehension.

Theres a story going round of there having been some 250,000 spolied votes in Ohio

Wouldn't have been a problem if a bunch of these left-affilliated groups hadn't been making fraudulant voter registrations.

I am amused by the fact that you eternally stupid and easily decieved liberals continue to blame conservatives for all the scandalous actions that you yourselves participate in. It is also amusing that even given the numerous attempts to rig yet another election, you find yourselves in an even deeper hole to dig yourselves out of. Not only did your dead votes and felon votes not win you this election, they didn't even bring you close enough to try another hustle this year! There is a reason why there are no super powers anywhere else in the world, and it's because most of Europe is run by childish fools such as yourselves. Just stop crying and realize that yes, finally most of America has grown a brain and done the right thing, and finally, they see the liberals for what they are, liars, crybabies and cheaters.

^^,
That's a laugh. what do you think the founding fathers were? Or all the settlers of America? Were they english conservatives before they got on the boat? That's funny 'cause without liberalism, Slavery would still be legal, Native Americans WOULD HAVE BEEN exterminated by now, and anyone not wealthy and hypocritically declaring themselves religious would be working on the plantations - oh yeah without any machines to aid.
Cheaters? ENron, Halliburton.
Crybabies? Newt Gingrich when Clinton wouldn't accept hi sbudget proposals which shut-down the Government for days.
Liars? IRAQ, WMD, Saddam a terrorist.

you're funny!

The bottom line, for me, still remains this - The Supreme Court voted to stop the counting of the ballots based on some screwy provision of Florida state law about timing - when it was still WEEKS away from when the Electoral College would vote to officially elect the President.

The Court should have allowed all those un-counted ballots to be counted.

Soooooo the Supreme Court made a decision based upon law? Wow call CNN! Last time I checked it was a court's job to do just that. We cannot just go around willy-nilly ignoring laws when doing so will get us what we want. I think that is called anarchy.

Don't get me wrong. I do not like Pres Bush. I did not vote for him. But he WAS elected, TWICE. Bummer. :(

hmmm, exit polls in Ohio showed 53% for Kerry and 47% for Bush.

This means one of two things:

First, obviously, that Kerry won, and Bush bought the election...again.

But secondly---6% of voters denied voting for Bush
they were too embarrassed to vote for the brain-dead crackhead...
or they lied and said they voted for Kerry--so much for moral valuees.

either way, people who voted for bush are idiots or hypocrites

Soooooo the Supreme Court made a decision based upon law? Wow call CNN! Last time I checked it was a court's job to do just that. We cannot just go around willy-nilly ignoring laws when doing so will get us what we want. I think that is called anarchy.

Don't get me wrong. I do not like Pres Bush. I did not vote for him. But he WAS elected, TWICE. Bummer. :(

I think the sentiment here was that for something that affects all states (such as the Presidency) stae law should be over-ruled - such as it would if a state had passed a law that countered a federal.

(such as Legality of Marijuana. thus far the govrnmnt has opted to stay out of certain situations and let the state proceed all the while saying it breaks ferderal law {disclaimer for the time when they do need to prosecute}. However, if public consumption and cultivation is endorsed, the govrmnt steps in swiftly and harshly. (although i've heard of a place in Ca, USA that is very tolerant).

hmmm, exit polls in Ohio showed 53% for Kerry and 47% for Bush.

This means one of two things:

First, obviously, that Kerry won, and Bush bought the election...again.

But secondly---6% of voters denied voting for Bush
they were too embarrassed to vote for the brain-dead crackhead...
or they lied and said they voted for Kerry--so much for moral valuees.

either way, people who voted for bush are idiots or hypocrites

#1, the exit polls were a crock in the first place.

#2, IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE. KERRY CONCEDED. Bush won fairly, with no Supreme Court involvement whatsoever. In all likelihood, Kerry conceded so that the Democratic party wouldn't get a recount stigma, which was quite smart on his part, and a set-up for the next Democratic candidate. *coughhilarycough*

#3, Stop flaming:
people who voted for bush are idiots or hypocrites

That's a laugh. what do you think the founding fathers were? Or all the settlers of America? Were they english conservatives before they got on the boat? That's funny 'cause without liberalism, Slavery would still be legal, Native Americans WOULD HAVE BEEN exterminated by now, and anyone not wealthy and hypocritically declaring themselves religious would be working on the plantations - oh yeah without any machines to aid.
Cheaters? ENron, Halliburton.
Crybabies? Newt Gingrich when Clinton wouldn't accept hi sbudget proposals which shut-down the Government for days.
Liars? IRAQ, WMD, Saddam a terrorist.

you're funny!
Actually, you are the funny one. The founding fathers had much more in common with conservatives of today than with liberals...they were religious,willing to fight for freedom, believed government should be smaller and stay as much as possible out of the way of people trying to make a living, etc.
Also, the Republicans came to power for the very first time on an anti-slavery platform with Abe Lincoln, so do not attempt to say that without liberals slavery would be legal.
The cheaters you mention,are true, but hardly is the list limited to them, and in the case of Enron, hardly can it even be linked to Republicans, as while they were committing their crime, Clinton was in office, and Mr Lay was a good friend of Senator Kerry, even to the point of having a dinner with him only days before the story broke.
Iraq has been linked to terrorists, as well...Perhaps you should travel there and get your news from somewhere unbiased, your own personal observations. Terrorists are fighting there right now.

hmmm, exit polls in Ohio showed 53% for Kerry and 47% for Bush.

This means one of two things:

That exit polls are wrong?

Or that polsters didn't talk to the right people?

#1, the exit polls were a crock in the first place.

#2, IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE. KERRY CONCEDED. Bush won fairly, with no Supreme Court involvement whatsoever. In all likelihood, Kerry conceded so that the Democratic party wouldn't get a recount stigma, which was quite smart on his part, and a set-up for the next Democratic candidate. *coughhilarycough*

#3, Stop flaming:
Good point, thank you. I am really sick of the fact that flaming is really only caught on these boards when it comes from conservatives.
Also, I am from Ohio, know literally hundreds of people who voted in Ohio, not ONE of which was polled...the lack of knowledge on the part of whoever started this thread should be embarrasing to them personally, even giving the benefit of the doubt that they actually believe the total load of %^$^& .

hmmm, exit polls in Ohio showed 53% for Kerry and 47% for Bush.

This means one of two things:

First, obviously, that Kerry won, and Bush bought the election...again.

But secondly---6% of voters denied voting for Bush
they were too embarrassed to vote for the brain-dead crackhead...
or they lied and said they voted for Kerry--so much for moral valuees.

either way, people who voted for bush are idiots or hypocrites
What it means is that the media and pollsters tried to swing the balance to Kerry, but the actual voters had the final say.

Wouldn't have been a problem if a bunch of these left-affilliated groups hadn't been making fraudulant voter registrations.
Exactly. Labor Unions were caught cheating in MO this year already,registering non-citizens to try to swing what was a close state to Kerry as well, and I am sure if they tried it here, they tried it other places.

Odd how the exit polls closely matched up with the vote count in non swing states, but didnt in Ohio, pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado, and New Hamphshire. Also odd is that counties with optical scanners, and electronic vote tabulations didnt concur with exit polls, but ones with paper ballots did.

IMO this election was rigged. More votes than voters thru "glitches" in swing states is a sure sign of tampering. One county in Ohio got 93 thousand more votes than actual registered voters. These kind of lopsided votes counts are being reported in numerous counties in Ohio, and Florida, and in every one of them Bush gets the mistake. Why is it that these "glitches" arent bipartisan?

I'm not a gunho Kerry supporter, but I tend to get a little upset when the person who gets elected president wins by being a better cheater, and not for being better qualified in the people eyes. Its a little early to call for now, but I have a feeling that this story has legs. We will see.

Odd how the exit polls closely matched up with the vote count in non swing states, but didnt in Ohio, pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado, and New Hamphshire. Also odd is that counties with optical scanners, and electronic vote tabulations didnt concur with exit polls, but ones with paper ballots did.

IMO this election was rigged. More votes than voters thru "glitches" in swing states is a sure sign of tampering. One county in Ohio got 93 thousand more votes than actual registered voters. These kind of lopsided votes counts are being reported in numerous counties in Ohio, and Florida, and in every one of them Bush gets the mistake. Why is it that these "glitches" arent bipartisan?

I'm not a gunho Kerry supporter, but I tend to get a little upset when the person who gets elected president wins by being a better cheater, and not for being better qualified in the people eyes. Its a little early to call for now, but I have a feeling that this story has legs. We will see.
Now it would be nice if you could back any of this up. As far as I can tell, you're just pulling things out of thin air.

And exit polls didn't just not match up in swing states. Notice how long it took to call states like North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and even Mississippi? They didn't match up in many places at all - just like in the 2000 and 2002 elections.

There was a story about it last night on MSNBC. I would link the stream but I'm kind of new here so I dont know how to link yet. Besides, I wouldnt link most of the sites that I read information from at this moment. Mainstream media has not yet latched it hooks into this one, with the exception of MSNBC hardblogger. But nowadays, the bloggers seem to have more power. The power of truth.

Look, I am merely speculating on this matter. As far as I care either one of the candidates could have lost, and I still would be interested in this story. If even one machine makes a mistake in favor of any candidate, especially in an excessive manner, it warrents some type of investigation.

To link, use [ URL ] as one bookend, put the link in the middle, and then close with [ /URL ]. Without the spaces inbetween, of course.

Roger, here you go.

http://home.comcast.net/~hugh.moore/countdown_on_voting_irregs.wmv

Odd how the exit polls closely matched up with the vote count in non swing states, but didnt in Ohio, pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado, and New Hamphshire. Also odd is that counties with optical scanners, and electronic vote tabulations didnt concur with exit polls, but ones with paper ballots did.

IMO this election was rigged. More votes than voters thru "glitches" in swing states is a sure sign of tampering. One county in Ohio got 93 thousand more votes than actual registered voters. These kind of lopsided votes counts are being reported in numerous counties in Ohio, and Florida, and in every one of them Bush gets the mistake. Why is it that these "glitches" arent bipartisan?

I'm not a gunho Kerry supporter, but I tend to get a little upset when the person who gets elected president wins by being a better cheater, and not for being better qualified in the people eyes. Its a little early to call for now, but I have a feeling that this story has legs. We will see.
Actually, see above...there will be a story, I am sure,but it was the Dems cheating. It was the Republican Sec of State who tried to have some voter registrations looked at, when HE saw that Dems were registering more people to vote in some counties than there were voters. The same held true in most swing states, heavy effort to erase Republican votes. in PA a strong effort by the governor of that state NOT to count military absentee ballots,which can always be counted on to be 70% Republican...many soldiers I know did not receive their absentee ballots in time from PA,OH,MI,WI,NM,etc.

It'll be interesting to see if anything comes of it, but not everything goes to Bush. I think he uses a bit of spin in this, for example, in 2000 Baker, Holmes, Dixie, Lafayette, and Liberty Counties all went for Bush, although he neglects to mention this when trying to paint it as extremely suspicious.

For reasons why Kerry lost, one need only look at the Democratic Party themselves...the national party took a hard left turn ideologically, linking itself to such people as Hollywood stars, M.Moore, etc, and calling them the voice of America...in the mid section of the country, MANY Democrats believed the party had gone too far to the left,as was stated by many of them publicly, in Ohio,where several mayors and elected Democratic state legislators campaigned for Bush, down to GA where a US Senator(Z.Miller) campaigned for him as well. As for the exit polling, the only people that seemed polled were inner city areas, and the fact that Bush was at 47% in an area where his strongest support is not, actually is a good reason why he WON.

Ahhh, the dixiecrats. While they tend to stay registered Democrats, the Dixiecrats vote entirely republican. Some call it "Pulling a Zell"

If Kerry won, wouldn't CNN know?

And by the way, people don't like celebrities. Especially people who tend to be jealous. So if a celebrity(say, Puff Daddy) tells a young person to vote...is that young person going to obey Puff Daddy? No. That young person is going to not vote as a way of saying "Puff Daddy may be rich, but he is not my master."

Has anyone actually tried to refute the whole Spoiled Votes thing, or are they just talking about the exit polls, and attacking Pollan, without bothering to go after the base of the article?

Has anyone actually tried to refute the whole Spoiled Votes thing, or are they just talking about the exit polls, and attacking Pollan, without bothering to go after the base of the article?
The bad voter registrations, which likely led to bad votes, were noted on the Republican National Committee home page in mid-October. Dems had registered a great many new voters, amazingly, even more voters than actually LIVED in several Ohio counties...for the Dems now to pick up the ball there, and think it was the Republicans...get a l ife...there are already lawsuits pending in Ohio regarding this case, with the Dem party defending(not sure how) the registered voters being more than the population.

wow...we have 170 complete morons on this site...

congradulations to:

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for once again not using their brains. You guys win the prize.

Excuse me, but why am I listed there?

LOL, Discontentment!

They should have it taken away as they buy into any conspiracy theory and don't have the ability to form their own opinions and fall for simple propaganda.


And what makes you so sure of that? How do you know that the people that did vote for Bush didn't do so just because they were brainwashed and unable to form their own opinions. Your agruement can go both ways. It's better to assume that people voted the way they did hopefully because they put some thought into which candidate they thought would make a better president.

READ THE FRONT PAGE OF FRIDAY'S NEW YORK TIMES!

God, give it a rest, your side lost.

edit: to correct a mistake in semantics.

READ THE FRONT PAGE OF FRIDAY'S NEW YORK TIMES!

God, give it a rest, you lost.


I didn't loose at all. I wasn't running for office. ;)

I am a Massachusets Liberal, and even I am not convinced by that article.

As much as I would like it to be true, the evidence is so flimsy it is not even worth considering. Exit Polls are not a perfect indication of how the vote went. Plus the article fails to explain why "spoiled' votes would most likely be democrat votes.

Like it or not, Bush actually won the popular vote. There are now officially more rednecks in America than thinkers.
Excuse me for a small moment, but I would like to know why many Liberals believe all Southerners to be ignorant, in-breeding, dumbasses. Can anyone tell me why?

Excuse me for a small moment, but I would like to know why many Liberals believe all Southerners to be ignorant, in-breeding, dumbasses. Can anyone tell me why?
Bah, I could have told you that. Because anyone who disagrees with the liberal viewpoint is an inferior being that must be assimilated or terminated.

Well, I already knew that, but I always wondered if they were jealous of us. I mean hell, I kinda pity them, they're all cramped up in the city, and we've enough land to where we don't mind tearing half of it up with ATVs.

Bah, I could have told you that. Because anyone who disagrees with the liberal viewpoint is an inferior being that must be assimilated or terminated.
Oh yeah, that attitude comes only from the left. You don't see the right talking down to the left or insisting that they live thier lives according to the rights values like heterogenous heterosexuality like proper god fearing christians....

oh, wait......

http://www.gregpalast.com/

I got a bridge for sale if you want it... nice house under it for a troll like yourself.

Oh yeah, that attitude comes only from the left. You don't see the right talking down to the left or insisting that they live thier lives according to the rights values like heterogenous heterosexuality like proper god fearing christians....

oh, wait......
It's spelled heterogeneous, and I can tell you have NO idea what it means, so stop trying to be smart and be yourself. And please revise the grammar, because the last part lost me.

I'm not trying to offend, it's just I'm not 100% clear on what you meant to type.

It's spelled heterogeneous, and I can tell you have NO idea what it means, so stop trying to be smart and be yourself. And please revise the grammar, because the last part lost me.

I'm not trying to offend, it's just I'm not 100% clear on what you meant to type.
I don't truck with no spell checker...(dumbed down enough for you?)

It seems to me it is the right who is trying to amend the constitution to make sure that people only do things thier way(gay marriage), it seems to me like it is the right who is insisting that the seperation of church and state is just a euphemism, it seems to me it is the right who voted on 'values'-I don't know how you translate that without it being 'live like us.' A culture of sameness? Isn't there a word for that?