NationStates Jolt Archive

(from Steve Czaban - http://www.czabe.com/dailyczabe.shtml)

Here’s the best I can do for Democrats if they are serious about actually winning elections in the future, and not just interested in calling Republicans “idiots” and “liars.” Here goes, try to follow along.

1) People who go to church are not evil. They also vote. There are lots of them. You do the math.

2) Americans like guns. This won’t change. Ever. Work harder to put cop killers into the electric chair, and stop reaching for Bubba’s 12-guage “duck-shredder” in the back window of his pickup.

3) Get some balls on national defense. Your greatest President JFK, won the biggest “No-Limit Hold ‘Em” hand of the 20th century against the Soviet Union during the Cuban missile crisis. (And he was only holding two-Jacks!) What the hell happened to you people ever since?

4) If you want to connect with the “common man”, try NOT to nominate French speaking, trophy-wife hunting, aloof windsurfers who can’t even throw a baseball 60’6”.

5) Tell Michael Moore to go bury himself in a truckload of Hostess Twinkies. Every party has their freak element. Do you see Pat Buchanan being trotted out by the GOP anymore?

6) If you think gays should have the right to get married, then win the argument with the public first. Don’t ask judges to cut corners for you.

7) Stop courting the “Youth Vote.” Counting on a bunch of Ludacris blasting punks to save you politically on election day, is like an NBA team saying: “Don’t worry, Shaq’s gonna make these free throws.”

8) Have lunch with Zell Miller, and actually listen to what he has to say. You tried dismissing him as a lunatic, but his convention speech was more spot-on than a ketchup drop on a starched white business shirt. (Oops, I was channeling my “inner Rather” there, sorry.)

9) Stop taking Hollywood money. It not only makes actors think they have a right to speak on your party’s behalf, but it has the addictive power of political heroin. Better to hold a thousand small pancake dinners at WFV halls in “red country.”

10) Lighten up, for once! America really doesn’t suck as much as you seem to think it does. I know liberals have a yearning for “utopian” (aka “perfect”) societies, but let’s be real, all humans are flawed. If you somehow find a way to see America as a great country constantly striving to be better, you’ll start moving into harmony with most Americans. A little sunshine goes a long way.

I agree with this poast.

Tell me, when the Republican Party was at its low point in the middle of nearly forty years of dominance by the Democratic Party between 1932-1968, did they rebuild their party and achieve the resurgence of the 1980s, 90s, and present by listening to advice from liberal Democrats on how to be relevent to an America where the majority of people self-described as liberal? No, starting with Goldwater they returned to their core ideals and waited for the sea-change in American politics that brought them back to power.

We don't need advice on how to become the GOP's second-fiddle, Conservative-lite party. One right-wing, reactionary, theological party is enough. The best thing the Democrats can do right now is stick to their liberal, Democratic principles and allow the country to experience the results of Republican hubris.

Tell me, when the Republican Party was at its low point in the middle of nearly forty years of dominance by the Democratic Party between 1932-1968, did they rebuild their party and achieve the resurgence of the 1980s, 90s, and present by listening to advice from liberal Democrats on how to be relevent to an America where the majority of people self-described as liberal? No, starting with Goldwater they returned to their core ideals and waited for the sea-change in American politics that brought them back to power.

We don't need advice on how to become the GOP's second-fiddle, Conservative-lite party. One right-wing, reactionary, theological party is enough. The best thing the Democrats can do right now is stick to their liberal, Democratic principles and allow the country to experience the results of Republican hubris.


Then I would suggest that the DEMOCRATIC party go back to its roots … you guys have strayed from what made you guys great

respect and understanding

Tell me, when the Republican Party was at its low point in the middle of nearly forty years of dominance by the Democratic Party between 1932-1968, did they rebuild their party and achieve the resurgence of the 1980s, 90s, and present by listening to advice from liberal Democrats on how to be relevent to an America where the majority of people self-described as liberal? No, starting with Goldwater they returned to their core ideals and waited for the sea-change in American politics that brought them back to power.

We don't need advice on how to become the GOP's second-fiddle, Conservative-lite party. One right-wing, reactionary, theological party is enough. The best thing the Democrats can do right now is stick to their liberal, Democratic principles and allow the country to experience the results of Republican hubris.
Name one state that Kerry didn't win because he wasn't liberal enough.

I agree with this post, the problem isn´t bush, the problem is the american socieity. Wow, now I understand Osama and I am more then ready to blow you up, you flawed humans!

3) Get some balls on national defense. Your greatest President JFK, won the biggest “No-Limit Hold ‘Em” hand of the 20th century against the Soviet Union during the Cuban missile crisis. (And he was only holding two-Jacks!) What the hell happened to you people ever since?


The Republicans get a free ride on their support of the military, but based on individual personal service do they deserve it? Let's see who has served their country in arms.

Prominent Democrats

Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon.
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat
Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.

Prominent Republicans

Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve.
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years.
VP Cheney - several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes. Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four student deferments
Pat Buchanan, did not serve

GOP Media Supporters

Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst')
Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve
Sean Hannity, did not serve.

That list has been debunked before. It just picks and chooses certain Democrats and Republicans, overall Republicans have more service.

i aree with the post in that he makes a point covered with self absorbed, self righteous republican bullshit which completely destroys his point making it null and void and he can keep his damn opinions to his damn self

The Republicans get a free ride on their support of the military, but based on individual personal service do they deserve it? Let's see who has served their country in arms.

Prominent Democrats

Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71.
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon.
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat
Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal.
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit.
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star.
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.

Prominent Republicans

Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve.
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years.
VP Cheney - several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes. Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four student deferments
Pat Buchanan, did not serve

GOP Media Supporters

Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst')
Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve
Sean Hannity, did not serve.


So this was picked through

Lets pick the most prominent people from one party that don’t have a certain attribute and and people from the other party that have only have that attribute
Funny stuff and you actually make it look you know respectable and stuff

Lol where did you copy and paste this from? Lol really linky’s would be helpful

i aree with the post in that he makes a point covered with self absorbed, self righteous republican bullshit which completely destroys his point making it null and void and he can keep his damn opinions to his damn self


So he can keep his opinions to his self but you don’t have to :-P

lol funny because this whole post is your opinion lol

So basically, Reaganodia, you're suggesting to the Democrats that by becoming just like the Republicans, they will be able to defeat the Republicans?
And ppl complain about not having enough of a choice already!

So this was picked through

Lets pick the most prominent people from one party that don’t have a certain attribute and and people from the other party that have only have that attribute
Funny stuff and you actually make it look you know respectable and stuff

Lol where did you copy and paste this from? Lol really linky’s would be helpful
Besides it's misleading, Wesley Clark was FIRED from NATO, he doesn't have a shining military career.

Besides it's misleading, Wesley Clark was FIRED from NATO, he doesn't have a shining military career.
Read it again, slowly this time. It says lenghty, not shining.

So he can keep his opinions to his self but you don’t have to :-P

lol funny because this whole post is your opinion lol
i missed a thus

They should never have gotten John Kerry as their representative, what was worse, is John Edwards.

I think Democrats might have won if Al Gore or even CLINTON was running.

Read it again, slowly this time. It says lenghty, not shining.
Read it again, I said it was misleading not out and out lying.

Tell me, when the Republican Party was at its low point in the middle of nearly forty years of dominance by the Democratic Party between 1932-1968, did they rebuild their party and achieve the resurgence of the 1980s, 90s, and present by listening to advice from liberal Democrats on how to be relevent to an America where the majority of people self-described as liberal? No, starting with Goldwater they returned to their core ideals and waited for the sea-change in American politics that brought them back to power.

We don't need advice on how to become the GOP's second-fiddle, Conservative-lite party. One right-wing, reactionary, theological party is enough. The best thing the Democrats can do right now is stick to their liberal, Democratic principles and allow the country to experience the results of Republican hubris.

How about very similar advice from a democrat: Nicholas Kristof (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/opinion/03kris.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fNicholas%20D%20Kri stof)

They should never have gotten John Kerry as their representative, what was worse, is John Edwards.

I think Democrats might have won if Al Gore or even CLINTON was running.
Clinton couldn't have run...unless you mean Hillary *vomits

That list has been debunked before. It just picks and chooses certain Democrats and Republicans, overall Republicans have more service.

Really? By all means debunk away. I look forward to your list.

1) People who go to church are not evil. They also vote. There are lots of them. You do the math.

Neither are Pagans or Atheists. The modern Moralist Republican party needs to stop trying to alienate us. We vote and there are lots of us. Think about it. George Bush got into office by a vote of 1/6th of the population of the United States. Yet, the country as a whole is 75% Christian. John Kerry may have lost the election, but he still received the vote of 1/6th of the population of the United States. John Kerry also got more votes than any Presidential Candidate in the history of the United States.

75% Christian nation, only 1/6th voted for Bush.
2% Pagan nation, and still 1/6th voted for Kerry.

Kinda makes you wonder just how many of those good, church going, God fearing Christians you love so much actually voted for Kerry ... and are Liberal!

You do the math.


2) Americans like guns. This won’t change. Ever. Work harder to put cop killers into the electric chair, and stop reaching for Bubba’s 12-guage “duck-shredder” in the back window of his pickup.

Gross generalization. Not all Americans like guns. This won't change.


3) Get some balls on national defense. Your greatest President JFK, won the biggest “No-Limit Hold ‘Em” hand of the 20th century against the Soviet Union during the Cuban missile crisis. (And he was only holding two-Jacks!) What the hell happened to you people ever since?

JFK got assassinated. Perhaps we became a little more cautious on how the world views us.


4) If you want to connect with the “common man”, try NOT to nominate French speaking, trophy-wife hunting, aloof windsurfers who can’t even throw a baseball 60’6”.

Hmm. So George Bush with his two nannies, chaufer, and private chef growing up makes him the much more "common" man?


5) Tell Michael Moore to go bury himself in a truckload of Hostess Twinkies. Every party has their freak element. Do you see Pat Buchanan being trotted out by the GOP anymore?

I see Pat Buchanan all the time. I think MSNBC likes his comedy routine. Michael Moore has every right to say what he likes. It's the First Amendment in a little document we like to call "The Constitution".


6) If you think gays should have the right to get married, then win the argument with the public first. Don’t ask judges to cut corners for you.

Judges are there to help protect those who cannot protect themselves. In the US, we protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Sometimes that requires legislation. A good example is the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and integration. Would you think of the judges who dealt with those cases as "liberal activist judges"? No? Well, at the time, the majority of the country did.


7) Stop courting the “Youth Vote.” Counting on a bunch of Ludacris blasting punks to save you politically on election day, is like an NBA team saying: “Don’t worry, Shaq’s gonna make these free throws.”

Everyone in this country has an equal voice. Even the 18 year old punks get just as much of a vote as a 40 year old business owner.


8) Have lunch with Zell Miller, and actually listen to what he has to say. You tried dismissing him as a lunatic, but his convention speech was more spot-on than a ketchup drop on a starched white business shirt. (Oops, I was channeling my “inner Rather” there, sorry.)

Zell Miller. Ummm ... ya know ... ya'll can have him. I did listen to what he had to say. He is a lunatic. Maybe you should listen.


9) Stop taking Hollywood money. It not only makes actors think they have a right to speak on your party’s behalf, but it has the addictive power of political heroin. Better to hold a thousand small pancake dinners at WFV halls in “red country.”

So if a person becomes an actor they no longer get a say in how the country is ran? They cease to be citizens? Great! Tell Charlton Heston, Tim Taylor, and Bruce Willis to shut up then.


10) Lighten up, for once! America really doesn’t suck as much as you seem to think it does. I know liberals have a yearning for “utopian” (aka “perfect”) societies, but let’s be real, all humans are flawed. If you somehow find a way to see America as a great country constantly striving to be better, you’ll start moving into harmony with most Americans. A little sunshine goes a long way.

So you're saying America is "good enough" and there is no reason to improve it? You don't think we can get better? You don't think humans can improve? A sad world in which you live.

Really? By all means debunk away. I look forward to your list.
This list was posted on these forums before, and someone posted a link showing all the experience of all the members of both parties. Besides, it's misleading, not all the people on the list have GOOD military experience.

This list was posted on these forums before, and someone posted a link showing all the experience of all the members of both parties. Besides, it's misleading, not all the people on the list have GOOD military experience.

Yes, we have seen how Republicans who did not serve tear down Democrats who did because their service wasn't good enough. The point is that the GOP constantly attempts to put Democrats on the defensive about their patriotism, their love of country, and their military service, when the reality is that many of those same Republican leaders (this isn't a list of GOP nobodies) never served themselves. They just assume calling yourself Republican is a free pass on the issue of patriotism, whereas all Democrats must constantly prove they are real Americans.

Why do you think we liberal, Democratic Americans are so bitter toward the GOP? You don't battle us on ideas, but rather challenge are very right to call ourselves Americans, and if we are Christian, we are never Christian enough.

Read it again, I said it was misleading not out and out lying.
*sigh* Ok, here's your original post:
Besides it's misleading, Wesley Clark was FIRED from NATO, he doesn't have a shining military career.
Do you notice the word shining there? I do. It's just after 'a' and before 'military'. And I was pointing out to you that if you read the original post, it said LENGTHY. It doesn't say 'shining' anywhere. So where did you get 'shining' from?
Just to refresh your memory:
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career

Yes, we have seen how Republicans who did not serve tear down Democrats who did because their service wasn't good enough. The point is that the GOP constantly attempts to put Democrats on the defensive about their patriotism, their love of country, and their military service, when the reality is that many of those same Republican leaders (this isn't a list of GOP nobodies) never served themselves. They just assume calling yourself Republican is a free pass on the issue of patriotism, whereas all Democrats must constantly prove they are real Americans.

Why do you think we liberal, Democratic Americans are so bitter toward the GOP? You don't battle us on ideas, but rather challenge are very right to call ourselves Americans, and if we are Christian, we are never Christian enough.
In the case of Kerry, his religion says he isn't Christian enough. Republicans have nothing to do with it. Republicans say Democrats aren't patriotic because when something fucks up, Democrats rush to blame America, and Americans, and Republicans blame the person who actually fucked everything up. September 11th: Democrats blame American foreign policy, Republicans blame terrorists.

*blah blah blah
The person presented the list to say: Look, Democrats are better at being patriotic than Republicans. My point was saying, that list doesn't say that, it's a stupid list. Then you argue about whether or not the list says that the list is stupid. Of course it doesn't say that, but the fact remains that it is.

How about:
(Hillary) Clinton for President 2008
and
(Bill) Clinton for VP
and
(Chelsea) Clinton for secretary of state.

That'll beat the Bushes for keeping it in the family.

Another idea:
Hilary Clinton (Pres) and Tipper Gore (VP).
That way, the Dems can save money and reuse all their old "Clinton/Gore" posters from '96.

How about:
(Hillary) Clinton for President 2008
and
(Bill) Clinton for VP
and
(Chelsea) Clinton for secretary of state.

That'll beat the Bushes for keeping it in the family.

Another idea:
Hilary Clinton (Pres) and Tipper Gore (VP).
That way, the Dems can save money and reuse all their old "Clinton/Gore" posters from '96.

(Note: I voted Nader in this election)

Oddly, Tipper was the reason I voted FOR Bush in 2000! Tipper scares the bejesus outta me, as does anyone who is for censorship.

Really? By all means debunk away. I look forward to your list.


Lol ran across where your list origionated from (before it ended up wherever it is that you got it from)

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

but for some reason the list on here


even the admittedly VERY biased web sight has SOME that served (and am much larger list)

lol half assed job at copying I see
:-D

The person presented the list to say: Look, Democrats are better at being patriotic than Republicans. My point was saying, that list doesn't say that, it's a stupid list. Then you argue about whether or not the list says that the list is stupid. Of course it doesn't say that, but the fact remains that it is.
No your point was changing the post and then saying it was flawed based on your revision.
And I was just pointing out to you that you had alteredthe post and then used your own version to denigrate it. That is equivalent to lying, IMO. It's also rather pathetic on your part. Fine, argue about the merits of a post, but DON'T change it to suit your own personal view and then attack your revised version. And when caught out, have the decency to apologise and not latch onto a completely different point and argue over that.
It's just not cricket, dear boy.
You've been watching too many Republican Political broadcasts.

(Note: I voted Nader in this election)

Oddly, Tipper was the reason I voted FOR Bush in 2000! Tipper scares the bejesus outta me, as does anyone who is for censorship.
pro-censorship! no more freedom of speech! no more freedom of the press!

In the case of Kerry, his religion says he isn't Christian enough. Republicans have nothing to do with it.

President Bush asked a top Vatican official to push American bishops to speak out more about political issues, including same-sex marriage, according to a report in the National Catholic Reporter, an independent newspaper.

Source?

Bush Asked for Vatican's Help on Political Issues, Report Says
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: June 13, 2004


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/13/politics/13george.html?ex=1402459200&en=0f985b5469faef04&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

No your point was changing the post and then saying it was flawed based on your revision.
And I was just pointing out to you that you had alteredthe post and then used your own version to denigrate it. That is equivalent to lying, IMO. It's also rather pathetic on your part. Fine, argue about the merits of a post, but DON'T change it to suit your own personal view and then attack your revised version. And when caught out, have the decency to apologise and not latch onto a completely different point and argue over that.
It's just not cricket, dear boy.
You've been watching too many Republican Political broadcasts.
What the hell am I changing? My posts or someone else's? I haven't edited mine, so am I to assume I suddenly gained modship over this forum? Or do you just have no idea what the hell you're talking about?

President Bush asked a top Vatican official to push American bishops to speak out more about political issues, including same-sex marriage, according to a report in the National Catholic Reporter, an independent newspaper.
Source?

Of course pro-choice Catholic Republicans such as Sen. Susan Collins of Maine; former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani; Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge; and California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger were not targeted by the Church, because Republicans never hold themselves to the same religious, moral, or political standards they do Democrats.

(from Steve Czaban - http://www.czabe.com/dailyczabe.shtml)

Here’s the best I can do for Democrats if they are serious about actually winning elections in the future, and not just interested in calling Republicans “idiots” and “liars.” Here goes, try to follow along.

1) People who go to church are not evil. They also vote. There are lots of them. You do the math.

2) Americans like guns. This won’t change. Ever. Work harder to put cop killers into the electric chair, and stop reaching for Bubba’s 12-guage “duck-shredder” in the back window of his pickup.

3) Get some balls on national defense. Your greatest President JFK, won the biggest “No-Limit Hold ‘Em” hand of the 20th century against the Soviet Union during the Cuban missile crisis. (And he was only holding two-Jacks!) What the hell happened to you people ever since?

4) If you want to connect with the “common man”, try NOT to nominate French speaking, trophy-wife hunting, aloof windsurfers who can’t even throw a baseball 60’6”.

5) Tell Michael Moore to go bury himself in a truckload of Hostess Twinkies. Every party has their freak element. Do you see Pat Buchanan being trotted out by the GOP anymore?

6) If you think gays should have the right to get married, then win the argument with the public first. Don’t ask judges to cut corners for you.

7) Stop courting the “Youth Vote.” Counting on a bunch of Ludacris blasting punks to save you politically on election day, is like an NBA team saying: “Don’t worry, Shaq’s gonna make these free throws.”

8) Have lunch with Zell Miller, and actually listen to what he has to say. You tried dismissing him as a lunatic, but his convention speech was more spot-on than a ketchup drop on a starched white business shirt. (Oops, I was channeling my “inner Rather” there, sorry.)

9) Stop taking Hollywood money. It not only makes actors think they have a right to speak on your party’s behalf, but it has the addictive power of political heroin. Better to hold a thousand small pancake dinners at WFV halls in “red country.”

10) Lighten up, for once! America really doesn’t suck as much as you seem to think it does. I know liberals have a yearning for “utopian” (aka “perfect”) societies, but let’s be real, all humans are flawed. If you somehow find a way to see America as a great country constantly striving to be better, you’ll start moving into harmony with most Americans. A little sunshine goes a long way.

You forgot step number 11) Rename the Democratic Party the Republican Party, and accuse their opponents of being 'liberal', like that's a crime against humanity or something...

In the case of Kerry, his religion says he isn't Christian enough. Republicans have nothing to do with it. Republicans say Democrats aren't patriotic because when something fucks up, Democrats rush to blame America, and Americans, and Republicans blame the person who actually fucked everything up. September 11th: Democrats blame American foreign policy, Republicans blame terrorists.

Yes, because there's nothing more unpatriotic than accepting the blame for something that happened under your watch. When Democrats blame America, they are also blaming themselves. Democrats are Americans.

9/11 had far deeper reaching reasons than just "towel-heads hate our freedom". Short sighted Republicans will never acknowledge that. But, then, we're also talking about the same people who think the US Civil War was just about slavery.

However, now there is no choice. The GOP controls the entire Legislative and Executive branches and, by proxy, the Judicial branch as well. If this country is not better in four years, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Some clues for the GOP:

"Better" does not only mean "Safer".

Privatizing Social Security will place all of our retirements in the hands of people like Kenneth Lay. Take a deep breath, step back a moment, and ask yourself if you really trust Enron with your retirement. If you do, perhaps you'd like Michael Jackson to watch your kids as well?

You are supposed to be the party of small, non-invasive Government. So get your Government out of my private life! Attempts at legislation of morality have never lasted very long in this country. You may get a small victory now, but will lose big later. Just look at history.

The Bible does not grant freedom of speech. Just look at all the rules against blasphemy and speaking ill of your neighbors. The Constitution gives us freedoms. Read the Bible at home and at church, read it to your children, hold fast to your views and stand strong in your beliefs .... but allow me the freedom to do the same.

Stop-loss is a backdoor draft whether you like to admit it or not. Get rid of it or just admit you've stretched yourselves too thin and do something about it.

Stop passing the buck. Japan will own us within 10 years if you don't stop letting them buy down our debt. Is that really what you want? The buck must stop here.

If a person comes to the RNC and says that God told them to run for President, please send them back from whence they came. Executive power should not come from voices in your head.

Stop using the word "mandate". You obviously don't know what it means. Mandate != Dictatorship.

The minute George Bush called Karl Rove "The Architect" in his victory speech, one of you should have shot him then and there. Words like that do not bode well.

pro-censorship! no more freedom of speech! no more freedom of the press!

Yep. "Banned in the USA". The government should never be in the position to tell people what they can read/see/think. This is why I am also against "banned book" lists for school libraries.

In the case of Kerry, his religion says he isn't Christian enough. Republicans have nothing to do with it.

President Bush asked a top Vatican official to push American bishops to speak out more about political issues, including same-sex marriage, according to a report in the National Catholic Reporter, an independent newspaper.

Source?

Bush Asked for Vatican's Help on Political Issues, Report Says
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: June 13, 2004


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/13/politics/13george.html?ex=1402459200&en=0f985b5469faef04&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Privatizing Social Security will place all of our retirements in the hands of people like Kenneth Lay. Take a deep breath, step back a moment, and ask yourself if you really trust Enron with your retirement. If you do, perhaps you'd like Michael Jackson to watch your kids as well?


Wow, I didn't realize EVERY corporate CEO was a corrupt person cooking the books!

Sorry, but Enron is the exception, not the rule. Most corporations are well-run, honest businesses. And part of every privatization option I've seen requires diversification. So stop exaggerating and fear mongering.

I support partial privatization 100%. You don't? Come up with something better. The mainstream Dems have NO plan to fix it. Just raise taxes to bandaid it.

Wow, I didn't realize EVERY corporate CEO was a corrupt person cooking the books!

Sorry, but Enron is the exception, not the rule. Most corporations are well-run, honest businesses. And part of every privatization option I've seen requires diversification. So stop exaggerating and fear mongering.

I support partial privatization 100%. You don't? Come up with something better. The mainstream Dems have NO plan to fix it. Just raise taxes to bandaid it.


ohhh I want a spiderman bandaid!

Wow, I didn't realize EVERY corporate CEO was a corrupt person cooking the books!

Sorry, but Enron is the exception, not the rule. Most corporations are well-run, honest businesses. And part of every privatization option I've seen requires diversification. So stop exaggerating and fear mongering.

I support partial privatization 100%. You don't? Come up with something better. The mainstream Dems have NO plan to fix it. Just raise taxes to bandaid it.
and what is privatisationg if not an uncontrolled bandaid?

whats today? pass the buck day!

and what is privatisationg if not an uncontrolled bandaid?

whats today? pass the buck day!


ohhh un controlled bandaid ... I didn’t know there was such a thing :-D lol
*imagines a bandaid covering my whole body*

What the hell am I changing? My posts or someone else's? I haven't edited mine, so am I to assume I suddenly gained modship over this forum? Or do you just have no idea what the hell you're talking about?
*sigh* Let's try this again. Read verryyyyyy slowly:
Here's the original post:
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.
Here's what you wrote:
Besides it's misleading, Wesley Clark was FIRED from NATO, he doesn't have a shining military career.
Now look carefully. Do you notice that you decided to delete the word "Lengthy" and insert the word "Shining"?

Now do you also notice that then you attacked the post based on your alteration stating that Clark had a shining military career?

And then when it was pointed out to you, you changed your tact and started arguing about something else.

Here's what I posted:
Read it again, slowly this time. It says lenghty, not shining.
You had this to say:
Read it(my post) again, I said it was misleading not out and out lying.

Where did I say you were claiming it was out and out lying? I was informing you that you had made an error, but instead of admitting it, you then decide that I've written something other than what I did. It's bizarre.
And when I point this out to (yet) again, you have this to say:
Then you argue about whether or not the list says that the list is stupid
Please, please read my posts! I never argued with you anything about what the list was about, only that you were misquoting it!

And have so far refused to admit that you changed the wording to suit your viewpoint. In fact now you saying this:
do you just have no idea what the hell you're talking about?

I mean this is just too weird. I can't understand what is going thru your mind!
YOU WROTE THE WRONG WORD. OK?
and rather than admit making a mistake, you're attacking me for pointing this out and saying I wrote things I never did. When Karl Rove retires, make sure you put your name forward as his replacement.