NationStates Jolt Archive

Now that its all over, and there is a clear winner, I have to ask this.

What made you decide to vote for him?

Was it his economic policies?

Was it becuase of the way he's handled Iraq?

Was it becuase you dont approve of gay marriage?

Do you believe he will win the "war on terror"?

Why?

Those of you who know me, know exactly where I stand on Bush, but rest assured I have no intention of trying to tell you where you went wrong.
I'm merely curious as to why you voted (If you voted for Bush).

To all the Kerry supporters:

Please dont flame anyone who responds.

[QUOTE=BackwoodsSquatches]
Those of you who know me, know exactly where I stand on Bush, but rest assured I have no intention of trying to tell you where you went wrong.
I'm merely curious as to why you voted (If you voted for Bush).
QUOTE]

C'mon, you know where this is going and you know you are just going to try to argue with someone.

I just wish Hacksaw Jim Duggin would come kick your ass with his 2x4 just for being so goddamn unamerican.

[QUOTE=BackwoodsSquatches]
Those of you who know me, know exactly where I stand on Bush, but rest assured I have no intention of trying to tell you where you went wrong.
I'm merely curious as to why you voted (If you voted for Bush).
QUOTE]

C'mon, you know where this is going and you know you are just going to try to argue with someone.

I just wish Hacksaw Jim Duggin would come kick your ass with his 2x4 just for being so goddamn unamerican.


No.

Im honestly asking a question.

I have no intention of trying to argue with anyone over why they voted the way they did.

Well, I can't help you, I voted for Kerry.

Alright I voted for Bush. And I did so because basically I think John Kerry looks like Herman Munster. Also he is an "elite" who likes windsurfing and wants to ban the bible. Happy now.

Well, according to some posters, some people voted for Bush because people from outside the US told them not to......IF you can believe that? :eek:

Yes, I can. And not only that I imagine they actually mobilized some of the vote for Bush. That's how politics work.

Black!

Yours,
Mr. Luxury Yacht (It is spelt Luxury Yacht but is actually pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove)

Yes, I can. And not only that I imagine they actually mobilized some of the vote for Bush. That's how politics work.

Yo, that's not politics, that's idiocy.

Hmmm...maybe it is politics.

Yo, that's not politics, that's idiocy.

Hmmm...maybe it is politics.

I believe it was winston churhill who once said: "Five minutes with the average voter is enough to convince anyone that democracy is doomed."

or something like that.

Well, according to some posters, some people voted for Bush because people from outside the US told them not to......IF you can believe that? :eek:
The funny thing is that according to other posters people from outside the US told Americans how to vote, those foreigners (particularly the Guardian readers for example) must have expected their words to have some effect or they wouldnt have wasted their breath eh? Its just a pity (I suppose) for those people that their words didnt have the effect they hoped for.

I dont think anyone is claiming that silly bastards telling Americans how to vote is the only reason so many Americans voted against Kerry. However I do think that nobody likes some patronising sack of shit telling them what to do.

Alright I voted for Bush. And I did so because basically I think John Kerry looks like Herman Munster. Also he is an "elite" who likes windsurfing and wants to ban the bible. Happy now.

There it is. That's what Bush has going for him. He's not Herman Munster, and he's not elite... well, not as elite as John Kerry.


Honestly, I didn't like the thought of having Kerry as President. He's as pro-war as Bush, more anti-gun, more pro-socialized medicine, made tons of spending promises, and supports the UN. He's also terrible at representing his state, by being one of the most absent members of the Senate. He's a total POS. You can see it in his face. Still, that wasn't nearly enough reason to vote for Bush. It's hard for me to say who would've been worse for the country, although we'd probably be better off with a D in the white house, having an R controlled congress.

Now that its all over, and there is a clear winner, I have to ask this.

What made you decide to vote for him?

Was it his economic policies?

Was it becuase of the way he's handled Iraq?

Was it becuase you dont approve of gay marriage?

Do you believe he will win the "war on terror"?

Why?

Those of you who know me, know exactly where I stand on Bush, but rest assured I have no intention of trying to tell you where you went wrong.
I'm merely curious as to why you voted (If you voted for Bush).

To all the Kerry supporters:

Please dont flame anyone who responds.
Just go back and search some of the previoue threads if you want to know the answer. This topic has been posted many times now. No need to take up anymore precious database space from the webhost.

The funny thing is that according to other posters people from outside the US told Americans how to vote, those foreigners (particularly the Guardian readers for example) must have expected their words to have some effect or they wouldnt have wasted their breath eh? Its just a pity (I suppose) for those people that their words didnt have the effect they hoped for.

I dont think anyone is claiming that silly bastards telling Americans how to vote is the only reason so many Americans voted against Kerry. However I do think that nobody likes some patronising sack of shit telling them what to do.
Well, I don't really think I am silly nor am I a bastard, and while I did hope that Kerry would be elected, I don't see myself as a sack of shit either. :eek:

~~"The destruction of your enemy is the destruction of yourself"~~
Dali Lama (Toronto 2004)

Well, I don't really think I am silly nor am I a bastard, and while I did hope that Kerry would be elected, I don't see myself as a sack of shit either. :eek:

Aw now dont get me wrong dude- as a Republican supporter I am glad you folks did everything you could ;)

Now that its all over, and there is a clear winner, I have to ask this.

What made you decide to vote for him?

Was it his economic policies?

Was it becuase of the way he's handled Iraq?

Was it becuase you dont approve of gay marriage?

Do you believe he will win the "war on terror"?


Islamic Fascism is a great of a threat to the free world as the Nazi's or the Soviet Union was. Sen. Kerry so much asstated that he would deal with this grave threat with the failed policies of appeasement. This is a country at war and we need to meet the threat head on. Treating Islamo-fascist terrorism as a law enforcement problem to be "reduced to a nuisance level" isn't going to cut it. The prospects of rolling back the tax cuts that pulled us out of recession and more liberal judiciary are also big factors in my vote.

Also, listening to Michael Moore crowing for the next four years that he brought down a President would be too much to bear.

I know someone who figured it out the following way.

He didn't like Kerry or Bush, or their policies. But since one was a lying incompetant (bush) and the other was telling the truth and competant, he should vote for bush, because that way there was the least chance of the proposed policies ever being realized. I suspect he questions that calculus now.

But since he voted in NY, it really doesn't matter.

If you want my honest answer …

About three months ago I was almost dead center … Im an independent

The deciding factors were these (now remember both sides in this election were horrible but I had to pick)

Kerry --- personal dislike for him. Don’t believe in his leadership skills nor do I believe that he will be “honest”


His campaign –
I found his campaign and his popularity was based about 40 percent on him not being bush … not being bush was not good enough for me (better the devil you know) he tried to emulate a lot of conservative type economic policies (which I really didn’t find all that much different … except for the tax break argument but I wont get into that)

His supporters –
Now I don’t want to pick on anyone here , and I would like to say that this wasn’t a factor.

But honestly part of me … and I think a lot of people was how Kerry (or should I say anti bush) supporters acted. I mean you expect a bit of a fervent argument from right wingers when you are on topics like gay marriages and such but in everything I did I had to defend myself.

If I showed anything “conservative” like in any of my arguments I got hounded as being “un educated-southner” I like to think myself fairly educated and I live in Minnesota so :-P and it got a lot worse then that

Constant attacks on me personally … on my education … on my iq … on that of my families I know had to have some factor in my decision.

I like to think I minimized its influence but I think it was what convinced a lot of us centrals

SPECIALY when you consider the ideals of equality and respect that the democratic party used to consistently show.
I don’t know if it is wrong but those were one of the main reasons I loved the party, but in this election you acted more the part of the “reverent” republican then you did of the party that I would have voted for.

Next time get someone like Lieberman in there … I would love to vote for him

(oh and don’t bother arguing … its done with picking apart my quickly thrown together statement just to point out where I am wrong is a waste of time … EXSPECIALY when it is trying to tell someone that their OPINION is wrong … that’s why it is an opinion doesn’t have to be based 100 percent on fact)

If you want my honest answer …

About three months ago I was almost dead center … Im an independent

The deciding factors were these (now remember both sides in this election were horrible but I had to pick)

Kerry --- personal dislike for him. Don’t believe in his leadership skills nor do I believe that he will be “honest”


His campaign –
I found his campaign and his popularity was based about 40 percent on him not being bush … not being bush was not good enough for me (better the devil you know) he tried to emulate a lot of conservative type economic policies (which I really didn’t find all that much different … except for the tax break argument but I wont get into that)

His supporters –
Now I don’t want to pick on anyone here , and I would like to say that this wasn’t a factor.

But honestly part of me … and I think a lot of people was how Kerry (or should I say anti bush) supporters acted. I mean you expect a bit of a fervent argument from right wingers when you are on topics like gay marriages and such but in everything I did I had to defend myself.

If I showed anything “conservative” like in any of my arguments I got hounded as being “un educated-southner” I like to think myself fairly educated and I live in Minnesota so :-P and it got a lot worse then that

Constant attacks on me personally … on my education … on my iq … on that of my families I know had to have some factor in my decision.

I like to think I minimized its influence but I think it was what convinced a lot of us centrals

SPECIALY when you consider the ideals of equality and respect that the democratic party used to consistently show.
I don’t know if it is wrong but those were one of the main reasons I loved the party, but in this election you acted more the part of the “reverent” republican then you did of the party that I would have voted for.

Next time get someone like Lieberman in there … I would love to vote for him

(oh and don’t bother arguing … its done with picking apart my quickly thrown together statement just to point out where I am wrong is a waste of time … EXSPECIALY when it is trying to tell someone that their OPINION is wrong … that’s why it is an opinion doesn’t have to be based 100 percent on fact)

The best thing the democrats could do is muzzle some of their most zealous supporters.

Islamic Fascism is a great of a threat to the free world as the Nazi's or the Soviet Union was. Sen. Kerry so much asstated that he would deal with this grave threat with the failed policies of appeasement. This is a country at war and we need to meet the threat head on. Treating Islamo-fascist terrorism as a law enforcement problem to be "reduced to a nuisance level" isn't going to cut it. The prospects of rolling back the tax cuts that pulled us out of recession and more liberal judiciary are also big factors in my vote.

Also, listening to Michael Moore crowing for the next four years that he brought down a President would be too much to bear.

Add to this Kerry is ingenuous. He never stuck with one viewpoint, preferring to ebb and flow with perceived public opinion. Higher ups in his campaign now say there was never really a detailed "plan". He basically took his cues day to day from other dems on what his stance should be, creating the flip-flop image. His voting record, what little there was of it, often supported higher taxes and more government control which goes against the grain of middle class Americans. His supporters and his campaign made vicious attacks, many of which were disproved. This called to question his honesty. Probably the biggest problem he had was the Swifties. They reminded the baby boomer generation that he had been a leading force in the Winter Soldier movement (many of us might not have put 2 and 2 together on that one) which met with discreditation. Although he was not visible during the campaign, he is known to be in the hip pocket of Ted Kennedy and his group. The whole country (except MA) keeps shaking its head in dismay at Kennedy. Another major problem he had was his wife. Can you imagine her getting huffy with a foreign dignitary and telling him "Shove it you idiot!" then taking off her clothes and running naked? They would have had to have kept her muzzled through his whole presidency to avoid war with every other nation in the world!! John Edwards was a mistake. He has very little Senate experience, his own state didn't support him, and he and other trial lawyers are believed to be the root cause of health care problems in this country. Kerry's faith was at issue. It's one thing to practice your faith, but another to merely profess it. Not much of what he says or does tells the Christian voters that he is anything more than a "Sunday only Christian".

Face it, Kerry was 2nd only to Dean as the worst choice the Dems could have made for a candidate. They need to reevaluate their far-left leaders and realize that most Americans are primarily moderate liberals.

I voted for him..

Because, because, becaaaause.
Of all of the wonderful things he's done.
[to the tune of "Off to See the Wizard" from Wizard of Oz]

Yea I know it's bad. :D

Now that its all over, and there is a clear winner, I have to ask this.

What made you decide to vote for him?

Was it his economic policies?

Was it becuase of the way he's handled Iraq?

Was it becuase you dont approve of gay marriage?

Do you believe he will win the "war on terror"?

Why?

Those of you who know me, know exactly where I stand on Bush, but rest assured I have no intention of trying to tell you where you went wrong.
I'm merely curious as to why you voted (If you voted for Bush).

To all the Kerry supporters:

Please dont flame anyone who responds.
I voted for Bush because I agree with him on most of the issues he stands for.

Something to stimulate your mind, I'd say:


Published on Thursday, November 4, 2004 by TomPaine.com
Kerry Won
by Greg Palast

Kerry won. Here's the facts.
I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry.

Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.

So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.

Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted. [See TomPaine.com, "An Election Spoiled Rotten," November 1.]

Once again, at the heart of the Ohio uncounted vote game are, I'm sorry to report, hanging chads and pregnant chads, plus some other ballot tricks old and new.

The election in Ohio was not decided by the voters but by something called "spoilage." Typically in the United States, about 3 percent of the vote is voided, just thrown away, not recorded. When the bobble-head boobs on the tube tell you Ohio or any state was won by 51 percent to 49 percent, don't you believe it ... it has never happened in the United States, because the total never reaches a neat 100 percent. The television totals simply subtract out the spoiled vote.

And not all vote spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African American and minority precincts. (To learn more, click here.)

We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here .)

And here's the key: Florida is terribly typical. The majority of ballots thrown out (there will be nearly 2 million tossed out from Tuesday's election) will have been cast by African American and other minority citizens.

So here we go again. Or, here we don't go again. Because unlike last time, Democrats aren't even asking Ohio to count these cards with the not-quite-punched holes (called "undervotes" in the voting biz).

Ohio is one of the last states in America to still use the vote-spoiling punch-card machines. And the Secretary of State of Ohio, J. Kenneth Blackwell, wrote before the election, “the possibility of a close election with punch cards as the state’s primary voting device invites a Florida-like calamity.”

But this week, Blackwell, a rabidly partisan Republican, has warmed up to the result of sticking with machines that have a habit of eating Democratic votes. When asked if he feared being this year's Katherine Harris, Blackwell noted that Ms. Fix-it's efforts landed her a seat in Congress.

Exactly how many votes were lost to spoilage this time? Blackwell's office, notably, won't say, though the law requires it be reported. Hmm. But we know that last time, the total of Ohio votes discarded reached a democracy-damaging 1.96 percent. The machines produced their typical loss—that's 110,000 votes—overwhelmingly Democratic.

The Impact Of Challenges

First and foremost, Kerry was had by chads. But the Democrat wasn't punched out by punch cards alone. There were also the 'challenges.' That's a polite word for the Republican Party of Ohio's use of an old Ku Klux Klan technique: the attempt to block thousands of voters of color at the polls. In Ohio, Wisconsin and Florida, the GOP laid plans for poll workers to ambush citizens under arcane laws—almost never used—allowing party-designated poll watchers to finger individual voters and demand they be denied a ballot. The Ohio courts were horrified and federal law prohibits targeting of voters where race is a factor in the challenge. But our Supreme Court was prepared to let Republicans stand in the voting booth door.

In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots—a kind of voting placebo—which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio.

Enchanted State's Enchanted Vote

Now, on to New Mexico, where a Kerry plurality—if all votes are counted—is more obvious still. Before the election, in TomPaine.com, I wrote, "John Kerry is down by several thousand votes in New Mexico, though not one ballot has yet been counted."

How did that happen? It's the spoilage, stupid; and the provisional ballots.

CNN said George Bush took New Mexico by 11,620 votes. Again, the network total added up to that miraculous, and non-existent, '100 percent' of ballots cast.

New Mexico reported in the last race a spoilage rate of 2.68 percent, votes lost almost entirely in Hispanic, Native American and poor precincts—Democratic turf. From Tuesday's vote, assuming the same ballot-loss rate, we can expect to see 18,000 ballots in the spoilage bin.

Spoilage has a very Democratic look in New Mexico. Hispanic voters in the Enchanted State, who voted more than two to one for Kerry, are five times as likely to have their vote spoil as a white voter. Counting these uncounted votes would easily overtake the Bush 'plurality.'

Already, the election-bending effects of spoilage are popping up in the election stats, exactly where we'd expect them: in heavily Hispanic areas controlled by Republican elections officials. Chaves County, in the "Little Texas" area of New Mexico, has a 44 percent Hispanic population, plus African Americans and Native Americans, yet George Bush "won" there 68 percent to 31 percent.

I spoke with Chaves' Republican county clerk before the election, and he told me that this huge spoilage rate among Hispanics simply indicated that such people simply can't make up their minds on the choice of candidate for president. Oddly, these brown people drive across the desert to register their indecision in a voting booth.

Now, let's add in the effect on the New Mexico tally of provisional ballots.

"They were handing them out like candy," Albuquerque journalist Renee Blake reported of provisional ballots. About 20,000 were given out. Who got them?

Santiago Juarez who ran the "Faithful Citizenship" program for the Catholic Archdiocese in New Mexico, told me that "his" voters, poor Hispanics, whom he identified as solid Kerry supporters, were handed the iffy provisional ballots. Hispanics were given provisional ballots, rather than the countable kind "almost religiously," he said, at polling stations when there was the least question about a voter's identification. Some voters, Santiago said, were simply turned away.

Your Kerry Victory Party

So we can call Ohio and New Mexico for John Kerry—if we count all the votes.

But that won't happen. Despite the Democratic Party's pledge, the leadership this time gave in to racial disenfranchisement once again. Why? No doubt, the Democrats know darn well that counting all the spoiled and provisional ballots will require the cooperation of Ohio's Secretary of State, Blackwell. He will ultimately decide which spoiled and provisional ballots get tallied. Blackwell, hankering to step into Kate Harris' political pumps, is unlikely to permit anything close to a full count. Also, Democratic leadership knows darn well the media would punish the party for demanding a full count.

What now? Kerry won, so hold your victory party. But make sure the shades are down: it may be become illegal to demand a full vote count under PATRIOT Act III.

I used to write a column for the Guardian papers in London. Several friends have asked me if I will again leave the country. In light of the failure—a second time—to count all the votes, that won't be necessary. My country has left me.

Greg Palast, contributing editor to Harper's magazine, investigated the manipulation of the vote for BBC Television's Newsnight. The documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," based on his New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, has been released this month on DVD .

Kerry Won
by Greg Palast

Kerry won. Here's the facts.
................................

LOL The exit polls were horribly flawed... Too many women in some polls, Too many minorities in another.

You guys need to put down that [some minority organizations name] issued crack pipe and come back to reality!

I chose not to vote, because I was tired of seeing my occupation used as a political tool.

I supported President Bush, yet supported Vice-President Gore in 2000. My main reason for supporting President Bush was continuity. To change presidents in the middle of a conflict of this magnitude, especially to another candidate who did not really lay down a "plan" for how to manage the Iraq situation, would be more hazardous than our current Commander-in-Cheif.

Additionally, I felt more comfortable with President Bush's campaign. Though I do believe an "adjustment" in his executive cabinet, to or not to include the current Secretary of Defense, may be in order. However, I do not have the liberty to express my opinions on that particular matter.

Ultimately, I supported President Bush because, though he may not be the GREATEST president, he IS what we need at the moment.

(and the next 4 years look promising, considered the conservatives have full control. You should see many successful resolutions in the upcoming congressional sessions.)

You, my friend, need to come to reality. It's a pity someone who can type coherently voted Bush; a mere case of ignorance while intelligence is held, I suppose.

To my knowledge, the Germans in World War II were quite intelligent. Just... ignorant as sin.

You, my friend, need to come to reality. It's a pity someone who can type coherently voted Bush; a mere case of ignorance while intelligence is held, I suppose.

To my knowledge, the Germans in World War II were quite intelligent. Just... ignorant as sin.

Investigate before you post. Did you know the exit polls were flawed before you posted? Or did you just not care to check?

You, my friend, need to come to reality. It's a pity someone who can type coherently voted Bush; a mere case of ignorance while intelligence is held, I suppose.

To my knowledge, the Germans in World War II were quite intelligent. Just... ignorant as sin.

A vote is not ignorant, regardless of who it is for. It is the logic leading to that vote that is ignorant. But, of course, only a vote for President Bush would be ignorant, wouldn't it?

The best thing the democrats could do is muzzle some of their most zealous supporters.


I agree … without all those factors specially the crazies Kerry would have maybe gotten my vote (in spite of the fact that I think he is a ass )


And yes the right has them in plenty but their party speaks from a “morality” platform and the democratic one speaks from an “understanding and for the people” but when they start bashing they really don’t hold the values I want to vote for … their for the people side is the one that I like for them.

All exit polls are flawed, partially. They are not perfect, but never before have they been that imperfect.

I ask you, all, please look beyond the propoganda of the Bush campaign. See actually what he did. Please, just do a search. I know that it's distasteful to usually read something that is against your political beliefs, but please take a gander at some of www.bushflash.com . Yes, some of it is crass. A great deal of it, though, holds a lot of truth.

I have no doubt that most of you are intelligent individuals. I just want you to look past the propoganda; and with the minds you have, I know you -can-.

All exit polls are flawed, partially. They are not perfect, but never before have they been that imperfect.

I ask you, all, please look beyond the propoganda of the Bush campaign. See actually what he did. Please, just do a search. I know that it's distasteful to usually read something that is against your political beliefs, but please take a gander at some of www.bushflash.com . Yes, some of it is crass. A great deal of it, though, holds a lot of truth.

I have no doubt that most of you are intelligent individuals. I just want you to look past the propoganda; and with the minds you have, I know you -can-.

The problem is most people are asking us to look past our propaganda and not to truth but towards propaganda of the other side. Where in actuality the truth lies on neither side but in the middle

(and exit polls are horribly inaccurate … if you wish me to point out the reasons why I will get out my stats book and start quoting)

I have no doubt that most of you are intelligent individuals. I just want you to look past the propoganda; and with the minds you have, I know you -can-.
Agreed, look past the propoganda.


Oh and the polls were more than a little flawed. In most cases they were off by 2-5%. States that were solidly Bush states, where showing up Kerry states.

Well, according to some posters, some people voted for Bush because people from outside the US told them not to......IF you can believe that? :eek:

That was absolutely a factor in my voting for Bush. Believe it.

You people outside America have no idea how Americans think or what makes us tick.

That was absolutely a factor in my voting for Bush. Believe it.

You people outside America have no idea how Americans think or what makes us tick.


yup like I said personal attacks on a person tend to drive them away from the idiologies of the people attacking them. (not just american but fairly standard human thing to do)

I voted for Bush.

social security needs reform and to accept the dems big government raise everybody's taxes solution to defer the issue for another 20 years is ridiculous. a privatization plan makes sense in looking at the plans in place in Chile and Poland.

Medicare/Medcaid needs reform, the Dems had they participated could have avoided the Delay inspired bill produced by the last Congress. By immediately demonizing conservatives and the President over the corporate largesse in the bill and taking their ball home, they got what they wanted, a campaign issue. Perhaps they might have worked in the process, got a compromise?

abandoning the war in Iraq would be a tragic mistake even more than the mistake made starting it in the first place. If you know what Kerry's plan was please tell me. I'm not nuanced enough to figure it out or perhaps the electorate figured out the same thing I did. He really doesn't care as long as you vote for him.

The tax cuts did benefit the lower and middle classes. Taxes are still too high. Senator Kerry doesn't have to pay much tax as a percentage of income because Mrs. Kerry has many of her millions stashed in tax free municipal bonds. I pay a higher percentage of income than them, fine with me lower mine. and lower spending while you're at it. (fat chance of that with either I know)

many more but this post is too long now.

Exit polls. Hehe. They're just so accurate. All the "quality" polls showed Kerry in the lead and he was clearly beaten.

I voted for Bush for several reasons.

Loosely agree w/ most of his policies on economics, WOT, etc.
Don't agree w/ change in the middle of a conflict. Also felt Kerry wouldn't have done much better.
Firearms. Kerry is against, Bush is supportive.
Kerrys' wife insulted every stay at home mother, teacher, and librarian in the country.

I agree … without all those factors specially the crazies Kerry would have maybe gotten my vote (in spite of the fact that I think he is a ass )


And yes the right has them in plenty but their party speaks from a “morality” platform and the democratic one speaks from an “understanding and for the people” but when they start bashing they really don’t hold the values I want to vote for … their for the people side is the one that I like for them.

What struck me the most was being called a "moron" and being told that I was "so stupid I'm surprised you remember to breathe" for criticizing some aspects of a candidate that I knew damn well they thought was less than perfect too.

When someone said "yeah Kerry's not the greatest, but I support him because I believe that he will do a better job on X," I could see the point sometimes. What I couldn't stand is being told I deserve to "choke on my own vomit" because I didn't think Kerry was the greatest presidential candidate in the history of the US. Especially when I knew that the person telling me this had their own reservations about him themselves.

Now I don't blame the campaign leadership for this. But in the background there was this almost desperate need for some of his supporters to browbeat people into accepting Kerry as the greatest human being ever. All this did was stiffen resistance against him. If they only could have accepted it was enough to genuinely advocate the issues, or at least sow doubt about Bush, instead of trying to convert everyone into Kerry zealots, then things might have been different.

Also, telling people that they would only vote for Bush because they are mentally defective is probably not the best way to change their mind. And get off the Rush Limbaugh thing. A lot of Bush voters don't even listen to him. Plus CBS news is biased. Finally, given that Fox is the most popular cable news station - not that I watch it - consitently referring to its veiwers as idiots probably only confirms their opinions about Kerry.

Now do some right wing pundits do the same thing. Sure. But some Dems were especially shrill in person this time round and I think it turned a lot of people off.

*sigh* Did -any- of you read the essay? That would tell you why the polls were so flawed. This also sheds some light:

THEY DID IT AGAIN. This election was STOLEN once again, through mass disenfranchisement, and those voting machines. Exit Polls have NEVER been out of synch with final results, as they were in Florida, and Ohio. It was universal- go to CNN.com, and look at the county-by-county results, as opposed to the exit polls, in the counties that DID use the machines, compared with counties that didn't. And the beauty of it? THERE'S NO PAPER TRAIL- just as folks warned. There's absolutely NO WAY to challenge these results- the opposition has NO recourse.

I agree with Dick Morris that the exit polling was a disinformation campaign by the democrats in an attempt to repress conservative turn out. The fellow you quote needs xanex and a dose of reality.

*sigh* Did -any- of you read the essay? That would tell you why the polls were so flawed. This also sheds some light:

THEY DID IT AGAIN. This election was STOLEN once again, through mass disenfranchisement, and those voting machines. Exit Polls have NEVER been out of synch with final results, as they were in Florida, and Ohio. It was universal- go to CNN.com, and look at the county-by-county results, as opposed to the exit polls, in the counties that DID use the machines, compared with counties that didn't. And the beauty of it? THERE'S NO PAPER TRAIL- just as folks warned. There's absolutely NO WAY to challenge these results- the opposition has NO recourse.

Lol I love the fact that just because there is no phisical paper that their is no way to track the validity of electronic data ... so quaint

What struck me the most was being called a "moron" and being told that I was "so stupid I'm surprised you remember to breathe" for criticizing some aspects of a candidate that I knew damn well they thought was less than perfect too.

When someone said "yeah Kerry's not the greatest, but I support him because I believe that he will do a better job on X," I could see the point sometimes. What I couldn't stand is being told I deserve to "choke on my own vomit" because I didn't think Kerry was the greatest presidential candidate in the history of the US. Especially when I knew that the person telling me this had their own reservations about him themselves.

Now I don't blame the campaign leadership for this. But in the background there was this almost desperate need for some of his supporters to browbeat people into accepting Kerry as the greatest human being ever. All this did was stiffen resistance against him. If they only could have accepted it was enough to genuinely advocate the issues, or at least sow doubt about Bush, instead of trying to convert everyone into Kerry zealots, then things might have been different.

Also, telling people that they would only vote for Bush because they are mentally defective is probably not the best way to change their mind. And get off the Rush Limbaugh thing. A lot of Bush voters don't even listen to him. Plus CBS news is biased. Finally, given that Fox is the most popular cable news station - not that I watch it - consitently referring to its veiwers as idiots probably only confirms their opinions about Kerry.

Now do some right wing pundits do the same thing. Sure. But some Dems were especially shrill in person this time round and I think it turned a lot of people off.

Completely agree … being called a moron defiantly drove me away to some extent (I tried to minimize it but that is nearly impossible)


I mean just look at threads like the iq vs election threads … really you are so convincing me that democrats are more enlightened then republicans. Yikes that was one of democrats biggest draws for me … and you have taken that away

*sigh* Did -any- of you read the essay? That would tell you why the polls were so flawed. This also sheds some light:

THEY DID IT AGAIN. This election was STOLEN once again, through mass disenfranchisement, and those voting machines. Exit Polls have NEVER been out of synch with final results, as they were in Florida, and Ohio. It was universal- go to CNN.com, and look at the county-by-county results, as opposed to the exit polls, in the counties that DID use the machines, compared with counties that didn't. And the beauty of it? THERE'S NO PAPER TRAIL- just as folks warned. There's absolutely NO WAY to challenge these results- the opposition has NO recourse.

Why can't you accept that the polls were wrong?
Stating that the election was STOLEN, only shows an unwillingness to accept the results no matter how clear they were.

It comes down to this. Accept flawed poll results or accept the actual count of the votes. I for one will accept the actual count of the voted.

You need the reality. *sigh* Christ Jesus.

Look at the economy, the war on terrorism (over a 1,000 of our people dead in iraq and over 100,000 civilians dead), the lack of WMDs, the fact Bush will not admit to being wrong, the fact he cannot answer most questions pointed at him, how he responded to September 11th (reading about goats), the horrors done to those detained in Cuba, the Patriot Act which takes away freedoms, the fact that Bush has used fear again and again to have us follow him (always was curious how the Terror Alert was never green or blue), the veterans cutbacks, the cut backs on medicare, the fact that social security is being bankrupted...

Look it up. Look, it, up. Not at Fox News; God knows they have nothing but the Wonders of Bush to say.

This comes as no great surprise to those of you who have read my tirades about Kerry, but I voted for President Bush. I'm no great pro-Bush fanatic ( didn't vote for him the first time around ), but Kerry ... well, I would go into the reasons, but don't want to start a flame war and have no desire to rehash things about which I have already posted in great detail.

I also voted for POTUS because of Iraq. Changing horses in midstream is never a good idea.

You need the reality. *sigh* Christ Jesus.

Look at the economy, the war on terrorism (over a 1,000 of our people dead in iraq and over 100,000 civilians dead), the lack of WMDs, the fact Bush will not admit to being wrong, the fact he cannot answer most questions pointed at him, how he responded to September 11th (reading about goats), the horrors done to those detained in Cuba, the Patriot Act which takes away freedoms, the fact that Bush has used fear again and again to have us follow him (always was curious how the Terror Alert was never green or blue), the veterans cutbacks, the cut backs on medicare, the fact that social security is being bankrupted...

Look it up. Look, it, up. Not at Fox News; God knows they have nothing but the Wonders of Bush to say.


Hmm have never actualy watched through a fox news show ... I caught about 5 minuits of them once

amazing how it is assumed that we watch it.

Hmmm wierd

I wanna play devil's advocate, if I may:

Assuming that yes, it is the "less intelligent" Americans that vote for President Bush (as it has been accused), then why is it that only Democrats complain that they didn't know which hole to punch, and that their vote might not be counted?

Maybe we should color (or colour, for the Aussies and Brits ^^) code the election. An envelope, a red and a blue piece of paper. BLUE = DEMOCRAT, RED = REPUBLICAN. Put your vote in the envelope, and drop the envelope in the box.

Rather, just put the Blue one in, since the (D)s are the only one's who haven't been voting right.

----
Please bear in mind I'm only throwing this out as a rhetorical question. I'm not attacking anyone, but to say that there is ignorance in voting for a particular candidate, and then complain that people aren't voting right and a recount is required... is a backward motion. You can't waffle you're way through an election.

You need the reality. *sigh* Christ Jesus.

Look at the economy, the war on terrorism (over a 1,000 of our people dead in iraq and over 100,000 civilians dead), the lack of WMDs, the fact Bush will not admit to being wrong, the fact he cannot answer most questions pointed at him, how he responded to September 11th (reading about goats), the horrors done to those detained in Cuba, the Patriot Act which takes away freedoms, the fact that Bush has used fear again and again to have us follow him (always was curious how the Terror Alert was never green or blue), the veterans cutbacks, the cut backs on medicare, the fact that social security is being bankrupted...

Look it up. Look, it, up. Not at Fox News; God knows they have nothing but the Wonders of Bush to say.

Read what you are writing. Your partisan spouting of Democratic talking points is almost laughable. You discredit yourself by repeating them.

Either way I think we got off topic somewhere so I will not continue to try to convince you otherwise.

This comes as no great surprise to those of you who have read my tirades about Kerry, but I voted for President Bush. I'm no great pro-Bush fanatic ( didn't vote for him the first time around ), but Kerry ... well, I would go into the reasons, but don't want to start a flame war and have no desire to rehash things about which I have already posted in great detail.

I also voted for POTUS because of Iraq. Changing horses in midstream is never a good idea.


But they do it all the time in the movies (john Wayne jumping from one horse to another to save the girl)
LOL

You, my friend, need to come to reality. It's a pity someone who can type coherently voted Bush; a mere case of ignorance while intelligence is held, I suppose.

To my knowledge, the Germans in World War II were quite intelligent. Just... ignorant as sin.

It's a pity that someone who's willing to take the word of Greg Palast over the official vote count with no corroborating evidence voted at all.

I wanna play devil's advocate, if I may:

Assuming that yes, it is the "less intelligent" Americans that vote for President Bush (as it has been accused), then why is it that only Democrats complain that they didn't know which hole to punch, and that their vote might not be counted?

Maybe we should color (or colour, for the Aussies and Brits ^^) code the election. An envelope, a red and a blue piece of paper. BLUE = DEMOCRAT, RED = REPUBLICAN. Put your vote in the envelope, and drop the envelope in the box.

Rather, just put the Blue one in, since the (D)s are the only one's who haven't been voting right.

----
Please bear in mind I'm only throwing this out as a rhetorical question. I'm not attacking anyone, but to say that there is ignorance in voting for a particular candidate, and then complain that people aren't voting right and a recount is required... is a backward motion. You can't waffle you're way through an election.

Lol that is a funny point specially with all the “mentally challenged voters” accusations being put forth to classify republican voters

I wanna play devil's advocate, if I may:

Assuming that yes, it is the "less intelligent" Americans that vote for President Bush (as it has been accused), then why is it that only Democrats complain that they didn't know which hole to punch, and that their vote might not be counted?

Maybe we should color (or colour, for the Aussies and Brits ^^) code the election. An envelope, a red and a blue piece of paper. BLUE = DEMOCRAT, RED = REPUBLICAN. Put your vote in the envelope, and drop the envelope in the box.

Rather, just put the Blue one in, since the (D)s are the only one's who haven't been voting right.

The only problem with this is that it would be easier for either party to throw away votes of the other party. Voter fraud, I fear, is rampant in the US. Both parties participate in it.

It's a pity that someone who's willing to take the word of Greg Palast over the official vote count with no corroborating evidence voted at all.

Maybe he is mkultra (sp?) incarnate :-D

You need the reality. *sigh* Christ Jesus.

Look at the economy, the war on terrorism (over a 1,000 of our people dead in iraq and over 100,000 civilians dead), the lack of WMDs, the fact Bush will not admit to being wrong, the fact he cannot answer most questions pointed at him, how he responded to September 11th (reading about goats), the horrors done to those detained in Cuba, the Patriot Act which takes away freedoms, the fact that Bush has used fear again and again to have us follow him (always was curious how the Terror Alert was never green or blue), the veterans cutbacks, the cut backs on medicare, the fact that social security is being bankrupted...

Look it up. Look, it, up. Not at Fox News; God knows they have nothing but the Wonders of Bush to say.

you have an opinion, I can read it. I think the economy is recovering nicely from the corporate scandals of the 90's, that the war while wrong to start has to be won or the result will be permanent facism in the Middle East, you're crazy on 9/11 so what?, the Patriot Act is RICO applied to terrorists, no cutbacks in Medicare, social security is being bankrupted because the dems won't reform and you have to have them in on it for it to work, and after listening to the democrats demonizing conservatives for the last thirty yeas stick the fear in you ear. :)

other than that have a nice day with your illuisions Mr. Moore. ;)

All exit polls are flawed, partially. They are not perfect, but never before have they been that imperfect.

I ask you, all, please look beyond the propoganda of the Bush campaign. See actually what he did. Please, just do a search. I know that it's distasteful to usually read something that is against your political beliefs, but please take a gander at some of www.bushflash.com . Yes, some of it is crass. A great deal of it, though, holds a lot of truth.

I have no doubt that most of you are intelligent individuals. I just want you to look past the propoganda; and with the minds you have, I know you -can-.
You are suffering from severe psychological damage, due to a defeat in a contest in which you had so much of a strong emotion - hate - invested. Please seek professional help immediately.

DEAL WITH IT.

The only problem with this is that it would be easier for either party to throw away votes of the other party. Voter fraud, I fear, is rampant in the US. Both parties participate in it.


Wouldn’t that make it cancel out :)

(unless we start hearing accusations of they cheated more)


Damn it I notice myself taking on a right wing stance now … see what defensiveness can do …

Sorry random thought but is true … as we are forced to defend an opinion more and more it just drives though processes the opposite way of the person attacking you or what not …

I hate having to personally defend myself rather then just arguing the points of the opinion

I voted for Bush.
I generally vote Republican. I am more of a Libertarian but they will never win and there needs to be some laws. I would rather be in a party that can win, while changing its’ platform. I hate how the ‘publicans want to enforce morals. That to me is not the role of government. I considered voting for Kerry but all that I knew about him is his voting record which was too liberal for me and his choice in a V.P. Edwards who made money by bringing doctors to court. South Park got it right Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich.

You need the reality. *sigh* Christ Jesus.

Look at the economy, the war on terrorism (over a 1,000 of our people dead in iraq and over 100,000 civilians dead), the lack of WMDs, the fact Bush will not admit to being wrong, the fact he cannot answer most questions pointed at him, how he responded to September 11th (reading about goats), the horrors done to those detained in Cuba, the Patriot Act which takes away freedoms, the fact that Bush has used fear again and again to have us follow him (always was curious how the Terror Alert was never green or blue), the veterans cutbacks, the cut backs on medicare, the fact that social security is being bankrupted...

Look it up. Look, it, up. Not at Fox News; God knows they have nothing but the Wonders of Bush to say.

Don't forget the 1.5 MILLION Kurds that died before we got there....

Oh, and the thousands of Americans killed on the streets by gangs....

and the rights that NO ONE has lost thanks to the Patriot Act....

Alerts never go green? TERRORISTS DON'T TAKE A HOLIDAY?!

Social Security? Bankrupt? Wasn't that predicted in the 80s? Social Security was not intended to be a permanent solution.

Agreed, Fox News is conservative. Don't even bother reading any newspaper, they're all biased. Just.. listen to the sound of another plane crashing into a building because the terror threat turned Green.

You are suffering from severe psychological damage, due to a defeat in a contest in which you had so much of a strong emotion - hate - invested. Please seek professional help immediately.

DEAL WITH IT.


I happen to agree that he is angry but don’t turn this into a personal battle

We don’t agree with his opinions , lets keep it at that

It was Kerry's supposed youth vote that swayed it.All damn hippies no doubt stoned off their head, ask any young person do you want 'Bush' or 'Kerry' and there going for Bush all the time.They probably thought it was funny and that the whole thing was a bit fishy,well look who's laughing now.

Me?
I voted for Bush because of his economic policies, chiefly the prescence of tax-cuts. I believe that this sort of stimulus is a slow acting but strong stim. We are finally starting to see the front end of the results of the taxcuts he made in his first term.

Didn't vote on the grounds of gay marriage, which I frankly don't care about, it doesn't involve me.

Didn't vote on the grounds of abortion, I don't care about this either.

Kind of voted in Iraq. I think that Bush has the more realistic plan. There was no way we'd be able to get other nations involved in Iraq, no matter what. France, Germany and Russia were out for good, and I felt that steady progress would start to have an effect soon.

I disliked Kerry's analogy of the war on terrorism to a police effort. I believe that all this is a full fledged military campaign.

I voted solidly against Kerry on the isssue of a right to healthcare. The moment he said that statement it was almost ascertained that he wouldn't be getting my vote. There isn't a right to healthcare, period.

I also voted against Kerry on his social security plan "just leave it sit" isn't the way to fix it. We need to raise the retirement age. That's the solution.

Those were my chief reasons for voting for Bush/against Kerry.

It was Kerry's supposed youth vote that swayed it.All damn hippies no doubt stoned off their head, ask any young person do you want 'Bush' or 'Kerry' and there going for Bush all the time.They probably thought it was funny and that the whole thing was a bit fishy,well look who's laughing now.


Hey I am not exactly old (21) I don’t feel like a hippy

Never been stoned

And wasn’t convinced by Kerry’s get out and vote campaign :-D

Hey I am not exactly old (21) I don’t feel like a hippy

Never been stoned

And wasn’t convinced by Kerry’s get out and vote campaign :-D

Its a joke.Bush here is taken to mean pussy as in furry cup or the holy grail if you are not getting any.
I hear a lot of Bush supporters speak of drug smoking hippy lefty types that support Kerry.
These people went to the polls and were so stoned they could not get over the irony of voting for some Bush..totally whack!!! Thats why Bush won,it was not the Bible thumpers rather the damn stupid hippies.

Its a joke.Bush here is taken to mean pussy as in furry cup or the holy grail if you are not getting any.
I hear a lot of Bush supporters speak of drug smoking hippy lefty types that support Kerry.
These people went to the polls and were so stoned they could not get over the irony of voting for some Bush..totally whack!!! Thats why Bush won,it was not the Bible thumpers rather the damn stupid hippies.


Lol sorry had the feeling


But been up 48 hrs now so :-D

*sigh* Did -any- of you read the essay? That would tell you why the polls were so flawed. This also sheds some light:

THEY DID IT AGAIN. This election was STOLEN once again, through mass disenfranchisement, and those voting machines. Exit Polls have NEVER been out of synch with final results, as they were in Florida, and Ohio. It was universal- go to CNN.com, and look at the county-by-county results, as opposed to the exit polls, in the counties that DID use the machines, compared with counties that didn't. And the beauty of it? THERE'S NO PAPER TRAIL- just as folks warned. There's absolutely NO WAY to challenge these results- the opposition has NO recourse.

What, were you listening to that psycho Air America has on in the afternoons?
My God, she makes Rush look moderate!

Face it, any attempt to make the election traceable will be met with strong opposition on the left - Cries of disenfrachisement and intimidation would run rampant.

Of course, we could just go to a public election instead of a secret ballot - That would certainly clean up any questions about who voted!

All exit polls are flawed, partially. They are not perfect, but never before have they been that imperfect.

I ask you, all, please look beyond the propoganda of the Bush campaign. See actually what he did. Please, just do a search. I know that it's distasteful to usually read something that is against your political beliefs, but please take a gander at some of www.bushflash.com . Yes, some of it is crass. A great deal of it, though, holds a lot of truth.

I have no doubt that most of you are intelligent individuals. I just want you to look past the propoganda; and with the minds you have, I know you -can-.

Exit polls are not total population samples. When I mailed my absentee ballot, did anyone rush to my door to ask me questions? No.

When my parents walked out of their white, suburban middle class precinct polling place, did anyone ask them who they voted for? No.

When my floormates trundled out of the Student Union after voting did anyone ask them who they voted for? No.

Exit polls are a portion of the populace, not the entire voting group. I know one person who was asked in an exit poll, and she voted in downtown Columbus, in a poorer precinct.

I'd suspect that the exit polling is off.

Exit polls are not total population samples. When I mailed my absentee ballot, did anyone rush to my door to ask me questions? No.

When my parents walked out of their white, suburban middle class precinct polling place, did anyone ask them who they voted for? No.

When my floormates trundled out of the Student Union after voting did anyone ask them who they voted for? No.

Exit polls are a portion of the populace, not the entire voting group. I know one person who was asked in an exit poll, and she voted in downtown Columbus, in a poorer precinct.

I'd suspect that the exit polling is off.


yup that’s why it is a survey not a census like the vote is (supposed) to be (I say supposed because it is close but more like a hybrid census - survey)
But the difference is that that the actual vote has a much larger sample group (along with WAY more diverse) I don’t think people know how hard it is to throw things off when you are sampling a few million people in your group yikes.

(though talking about for the general popular vote … the whole electoral thing throws it off) but yeah sorry for my babbling

*sigh* Did -any- of you read the essay? That would tell you why the polls were so flawed. This also sheds some light:

THEY DID IT AGAIN. This election was STOLEN once again, through mass disenfranchisement, and those voting machines. Exit Polls have NEVER been out of synch with final results, as they were in Florida, and Ohio. It was universal- go to CNN.com, and look at the county-by-county results, as opposed to the exit polls, in the counties that DID use the machines, compared with counties that didn't. And the beauty of it? THERE'S NO PAPER TRAIL- just as folks warned. There's absolutely NO WAY to challenge these results- the opposition has NO recourse.

That was not an essay. That was anti-Bush rhetoric. NO PAPER TRAIL!! Oh NO!! It is a lot easier to make paper disappear than media evidence. As for the exit polls, do you read the news or just your Bash Bush pulp fiction. Dems had several of their workers go to the exit poll locations, walk out like they had just voted, and agree to fill out an exit poll. Their intention was to discourage Bush voters into thinking their candidate was too far behind for their vote to make a difference. If anything, it may have had the reverse effect. If you want to look at dirty tricks, look at the dems. Do you realize the dems had more people registered in 2 Ohio districts than there were qualified voters? I would imagine that a lot of the votes that get pitched were cast by Mickey and Daffy. As for the disqualified votes belonging mostly to minorities, do you think that might have something to do with the drop out rate and illiteracy among blacks? If they are not able to read or follow directions, perhaps we should be spending more time trying to figure out why black kids are leaving school.

Who's the electable candidate who is not a socialist? All I needed to know.

I get the impression that doom lives.

Alright I voted for Bush. And I did so because basically I think John Kerry looks like Herman Munster. Also he is an "elite" who likes windsurfing and wants to ban the bible. Happy now.


Your entire basis of voting for a candidate has everything to do with the way they look?

Just go back and search some of the previoue threads if you want to know the answer. This topic has been posted many times now. No need to take up anymore precious database space from the webhost.

Thank you totally incorrect person.
Now...go and play.


The entire reason Im doing this is becuase no one has given a good reason why they voted for Bush.

Thats why I made this thread, so that hopefully, someone would.

Islamic Fascism is a great of a threat to the free world as the Nazi's or the Soviet Union was. Sen. Kerry so much asstated that he would deal with this grave threat with the failed policies of appeasement. This is a country at war and we need to meet the threat head on. Treating Islamo-fascist terrorism as a law enforcement problem to be "reduced to a nuisance level" isn't going to cut it. The prospects of rolling back the tax cuts that pulled us out of recession and more liberal judiciary are also big factors in my vote.

Also, listening to Michael Moore crowing for the next four years that he brought down a President would be too much to bear.


Ok.

Thank you.

I do have to mention though, that the tax cuts you mention, that being Bush's tax cuts to the top 2%, are proven not to stimulate the economy, in the way you think.
Clintions tactics of giving the tax cut to the middle class, is what left us with a trillion dollar surplus.

Ok.

Thank you.

I do have to mention though, that the tax cuts you mention, that being Bush's tax cuts to the top 2%, are proven not to stimulate the economy, in the way you think.
Clintions tactics of giving the tax cut to the middle class, is what left us with a trillion dollar surplus.

But the deficit was still there... besides, I paid alot in Taxes while Clinton was in office... less when Bush was there and I am definatly no where near the top 20% much less 2%.

Why did I vote for Bush? I heard some things that Bush did that did not make sense in an of themselves. then I read this site and suddenly it all became clear.

http://www.catsprn.com/under_attack.htm

Bush studying the Mulsim religion and reading their holy texts. The building of close ties with Israel. other actions that seemed unimportant and innoculous untill you put it all together.

And the fact that everyone is still complaining about losing this election makes me glad he won.

That was absolutely a factor in my voting for Bush. Believe it.

You people outside America have no idea how Americans think or what makes us tick.

Oh so all Americans think alike. I see, thanks for clearing that up. Hmm because Americans clearly, clearly aren't humans like the rest of the world. You are obviously more important, your ideas more valid and your skin more...let me guess, white? And your bible more transcendent.

Just give some pathetic answer like, i dunno, continuity and shut the hell up.

What struck me the most was being called a "moron" and being told that I was "so stupid I'm surprised you remember to breathe" for criticizing some aspects of a candidate that I knew damn well they thought was less than perfect too.

When someone said "yeah Kerry's not the greatest, but I support him because I believe that he will do a better job on X," I could see the point sometimes. What I couldn't stand is being told I deserve to "choke on my own vomit" because I didn't think Kerry was the greatest presidential candidate in the history of the US. Especially when I knew that the person telling me this had their own reservations about him themselves.

Now I don't blame the campaign leadership for this. But in the background there was this almost desperate need for some of his supporters to browbeat people into accepting Kerry as the greatest human being ever. All this did was stiffen resistance against him. If they only could have accepted it was enough to genuinely advocate the issues, or at least sow doubt about Bush, instead of trying to convert everyone into Kerry zealots, then things might have been different.

Also, telling people that they would only vote for Bush because they are mentally defective is probably not the best way to change their mind. And get off the Rush Limbaugh thing. A lot of Bush voters don't even listen to him. Plus CBS news is biased. Finally, given that Fox is the most popular cable news station - not that I watch it - consitently referring to its veiwers as idiots probably only confirms their opinions about Kerry.

Now do some right wing pundits do the same thing. Sure. But some Dems were especially shrill in person this time round and I think it turned a lot of people off.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Well, according to some posters, some people voted for Bush because people from outside the US told them not to......IF you can believe that? :eek:
And why not? Would you like out-siders trying to tell you how to vote in your nations elections? I voted for Bush largely because he responds when Americans are attacked , his responses may not be perfect but they are responses. No American President since, to my knowledge, has responded to an attack on Americans since FDR. Kerry might have responded, might not. If hwe did it would have been after begging permission and waiting for answers from "allies". I may be killed by a foriegn dissident or a lone madman or a terrorist organisation in the next 4+years, but there will be a price to pay for it. That may not be much, but it's more than Americans have had in my lifetime.

Oh so all Americans think alike. I see, thanks for clearing that up. Hmm because Americans clearly, clearly aren't humans like the rest of the world. You are obviously more important, your ideas more valid and your skin more...let me guess, white? And your bible more transcendent.

Just give some pathetic answer like, i dunno, continuity and shut the hell up.



Pot. Kettle. Black.

Gee... and every one else on NS Forums: General all think that America made a mistake Re-Electing Bush... OH I see, thanks for clearing that up. Hmm because everyone else clearly, clearly aren't humans like Americans. You are obviously more important, your ideas more valid and your skin more...let me guess, Cleaner by not doing any of the world's dirty work? And your Government more transcendent.

TO THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS POST:

You recently stated you are asking why people voted for President Bush, because no one has provided you a good enough reason.

Ironically, the same is true for me and Kerry. I am not asking why anyone voted for him, so don't bother telling me (unless you're trying to push a futile argument).

Additionally, no one needs to justify their vote. Those who have replied to your post have stated what you requested. You have been told why some of those who voted for the President voted so. Unless the purpose of your thread is to try and see how many people you can tell "wasted thier votes."

You asked people why they voted for a particular candidate. Any reason is a good reason. Not meeting YOUR requirements only makes it MORE of a good reason. Because that would mean they voted based on THIER beliefs and no one elses. Your questions have been answered. This thread is complete.

TO THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS POST:

You recently stated you are asking why people voted for President Bush, because no one has provided you a good enough reason.

Ironically, the same is true for me and Kerry. I am not asking why anyone voted for him, so don't bother telling me (unless you're trying to push a futile argument).

Additionally, no one needs to justify their vote. Those who have replied to your post have stated what you requested. You have been told why some of those who voted for the President voted so. Unless the purpose of your thread is to try and see how many people you can tell "wasted thier votes."

You asked people why they voted for a particular candidate. Any reason is a good reason. Not meeting YOUR requirements only makes it MORE of a good reason. Because that would mean they voted based on THIER beliefs and no one elses. Your questions have been answered. This thread is complete.


This thread was more or less for my own satisfaction.
If your not enjoying it...thats too bad.

Once again..as Ive said, I've heard many Bush supporters give their reasons why they voted the way they did, and only a couple people (in this thread, and no where else) have had solid reasons to cast thier vote they way they did.

Im not attempting to argue with anyone, Im genuinely curious as to why so many people choose to re-elect a man that in my opinion, was the worst case scenario.

Im certainly not implying that those who voted for Kerry were wiser than any other, but I understand thier decision much more, simply becuase they thought along the same lines I did.

This is an attempt to truly understand the other half.

Nothing more.....nothing less.

This thread was more or less for my own satisfaction.
If your not enjoying it...thats too bad.

Once again..as Ive said, I've heard many Bush supporters give their reasons why they voted the way they did, and only a couple people (in this thread, and no where else) have had solid reasons to cast thier vote they way they did.

Im not attempting to argue with anyone, Im genuinely curious as to why so many people choose to re-elect a man that in my opinion, was the worst case scenario.

Im certainly not implying that those who voted for Kerry were wiser than any other, but I understand thier decision much more, simply becuase they thought along the same lines I did.

This is an attempt to truly understand the other half.

Nothing more.....nothing less.And sometimes, it goes down to belief and faith. and I know some people who take a quarter or dice with them when they go to the polls.

Neither Bush nor Kerry impressed me in the debates. I'd say Kerry won two and the third was a push... and I'm Republican. W is about the worst representative you can have for our party, and every Republican out there knows it is true. The best Republican is not in office.

What sold me and eased any doubts, however, was the way Cheney owned Edwards in the VP debate. Complete and utter ownage to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if Edwards tries to sue him for forty acres and a mule. Furthermore, the no nonsense way Cheney handles himself is awesome in a day where all politicians do is speak in circles. Bush had the better VP in my opinion, and I'd go so far as to say it's easy to see who wears the pants in that relationship.

So why did I vote for Bush? His backup. I just wish Cheney could be president. Out of the four people involved in the race, Cheney is the only one who shined in my eyes. I just hope Bush listens to him, and I wish he were about ten years younger. Looks like you libs will have no competition for your dragon lady in 2008. Congrats.

And sometimes, it goes down to belief and faith. and I know some people who take a quarter or dice with them when they go to the polls.

See, maybe its just the way I was brought up, but the idea of simply leaving a thing as important as a vote to chance is ludicrous.
To me, those people dont have opinions one way or the other, and if you dont have a strong opinion on who to vote for...why vote at all?

As for your comment on belief and faith...are you saying that your religion had an impact on the way you voted?

See, maybe its just the way I was brought up, but the idea of simply leaving a thing as important as a vote to chance is ludicrous.
To me, those people dont have opinions one way or the other, and if you dont have a strong opinion on who to vote for...why vote at all?

As for your comment on belief and faith...are you saying that your religion had an impact on the way you voted?Better than those who don't vote then complain about the winner.

Yep. I always believe the Big Guy has a plan for everyone. whether or not they fulfill our goals is incidental.

but morals are also based on religion. basic sense of right and wrong also. The important thing is to choose the faith right for you.

whoops. sorry didn't mean to get preachy.

Neither Bush nor Kerry impressed me in the debates. I'd say Kerry won two and the third was a push... and I'm Republican. W is about the worst representative you can have for our party, and every Republican out there knows it is true. The best Republican is not in office.

What sold me and eased any doubts, however, was the way Cheney owned Edwards in the VP debate. Complete and utter ownage to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if Edwards tries to sue him for forty acres and a mule. Furthermore, the no nonsense way Cheney handles himself is awesome in a day where all politicians do is speak in circles. Bush had the better VP in my opinion, and I'd go so far as to say it's easy to see who wears the pants in that relationship.

So why did I vote for Bush? His backup. I just wish Cheney could be president. Out of the four people involved in the race, Cheney is the only one who shined in my eyes. I just hope Bush listens to him, and I wish he were about ten years younger. Looks like you libs will have no competition for your dragon lady in 2008. Congrats.


Ok.

You voted for Bush becuase of Cheney.
I can understand that becuase of Cheney's business experience, even if I personally think his business ethics are abominable.
He knows how to handle a huge corporation, and America is basically one big conglomerate.

I have to ask you though, Cheney is said to be quietly in favor of gay civil unions.
Bush and the Neo-Cons, (wich by the way give you republicans a terrible name), are very anti-gay marriage.
Does that make any difference to you?

As for the best men running, you nailed it.
Kerry is not the best the Dems had, and Bush is the worst example of a decent Republican I can think of.

Dragon Lady?
Hillary? Pfffft.... dont even worry about her.
Sadly..America isnt ready to accept a woman President.

As for your side in 2008, Im thinking John McCain will get the nomination.
If he were pro-choice, he'd get my vote.
Hell....depening on who runs against him, he may get my vote anyway.

I voted for Bush simply because Kerry was not a viable alternative, and wasn't someone who I wanted appointing future Justices to the SCOTUS. I had and still have absolutely no confidence in the character and abilites of John Kerry, and never will.

Of course, in California, the choice for Republicans isn't who to vote for, it's whether to vote at all. ;) The choice was between Bush and not voting. I chose to vote in hopes of shutting up the "Bush doesn't have a mandate to lead" crowd, who conveniently forgets JFK's "a one-vote victory is a mandate" proclaimation when we pull one off. I think we succeeded nicely, and gave the President a comfortable base of power for the next 4 years. :)

Better than those who don't vote then complain about the winner.

Yep. I always believe the Big Guy has a plan for everyone. whether or not they fulfill our goals is incidental.

but morals are also based on religion. basic sense of right and wrong also. The important thing is to choose the faith right for you.

whoops. sorry didn't mean to get preachy.


Dont sweat it.

But once again, we think differently.
My mind says that its vital to vote, no matter who you vote for.

"If you dont vote...you have no right to bitch."

I voted.

I have to ask you though, Cheney is said to be quietly in favor of gay civil unions.
Bush and the Neo-Cons, (wich by the way give you republicans a terrible name), are very anti-gay marriage.
Does that make any difference to you?


Civil Unions and Gay Marriages are two separate things. I am for Civil unions (tho a better name needs to be decieded upon) but against Gay Marriage.

Dont sweat it.

But once again, we think differently.
My mind says that its vital to vote, no matter who you vote for.

"If you dont vote...you have no right to bitch."

I voted.

Hear hear!

I believe that I have the best advice here.


GET OVER IT! Elections over! Bush won! Kerry lost! Another election in 4 years! QUIT BITCHIN!


*Can see people complaining for the next four years like they can do something about it* :headbang:

I voted for Bush simply because Kerry was not a viable alternative, and wasn't someone who I wanted appointing future Justices to the SCOTUS. I had and still have absolutely no confidence in the character and abilites of John Kerry, and never will.

Of course, in California, the choice for Republicans isn't who to vote for, it's whether to vote at all. ;) The choice was between Bush and not voting. I chose to vote in hopes of shutting up the "Bush doesn't have a mandate to lead" crowd, who conveniently forgets JFK's "a one-vote victory is a mandate" proclaimation when we pull one off. I think we succeeded nicely, and gave the President a comfortable base of power for the next 4 years. :)

Right.

So you voted for Bush, becuase you have no confidence in Kerry.
Fair enough.

So you have confidence in Bush?
I mean, after Iraq, and Osama still on the loose, surely you must understand why many of us say the same thing about Bush?

Voting for Bush becuase you didnt want Kerry in office is fair enough, I suppose.'
Millions of us voted for Kerry for the same reason.

I believe that I have the best advice here.


GET OVER IT! Elections over! Bush won! Kerry lost! Another election in 4 years! QUIT BITCHIN!


*Can see people complaining for the next four years like they can do something about it* :headbang:


You obviously havent been reading this thread, and your comments are uneeded, and unwanted.

Civil Unions and Gay Marriages are two separate things. I am for Civil unions (tho a better name needs to be decieded upon) but against Gay Marriage.


Yeah, I know.

Cheney has a gay daughter, and while he can never be openly in favor of gay marriage.....he has been quoted as being in favor of Civil Unions.

I disagree. By showing your apathy and not voting you would be showing the parties that they arent getting it right.

My 2p.

Secondly, until america stops starting pointless wars and polluting the world, it is our bussiness who runs it as America affects us in a very serious way.

As for Bush and Kerry. Rubbish. Cheney however lied to the American people. Telling them there were WMDs when no such things existed and he had no evidence to indicate otherwise.

Cheney is pretty much the most feared man in the world. As in "argh he scares me" at least you know that Bush is just an ignorant dolt. Cheney has talent, which is what is scary. I know its out of proportion, but hitler had talent too. Thats why Hitler was scary, evil is fine until they can get somewhere of importance.

Cheney prbably did 0wn Edwards. But he also 0wnd the truth too.

Oh but I have and all it sums up to is people arguing about WHY this and Why not him and it doesnt matter! And regardless I stated my thoughts. :fluffle:

As for your side in 2008, Im thinking John McCain will get the nomination.
If he were pro-choice, he'd get my vote.
Hell....depening on who runs against him, he may get my vote anyway.


Umm... unless he had a sudden change of heart, McCain is pro-choice to an extent.

And as far as Cheney being open to gay rights? So am I. I have a theory.

Screw whoever you want to. Marry whoever you want to. Only human beings get benefits.

I.E.

Joe can marry Hank and get the same benefits of that marriage as Sue and Tom do. Meanwhile Leroy can marry his cat, but since the cat ain't human, no tax dollars or laws are wasted on it. Same for Mary who decides to marry her grandmothers urn. The whole sanctity of marriage argument is bs as more than half the folks who get married, get divorced. Some more than once.

Frankly, Cheney has it right. Powell has it right. Rice has it right. Even Rumsfeld doesn't give a rodents posterior if gay people get married. Unfortunately we chose the Christian Bin Laden to hold the top position. Either way, I'm not sorry for supporting my party. In my eyes we're ten times better off with Bush than Kerry, and at least if Bush were to bite it, we have a great guy in the wings. Edwards running this country? It'd be like Opey Goes to Washington.

I disagree. By showing your apathy and not voting you would be showing the parties that they arent getting it right.

My 2p.

True, but you can vote and cast an empty ballot. that send a more powerful message than just staying at home. No one counts those that stay at home while a blank section really shows your dis-aproval.

Secondly, until america stops starting pointless wars and polluting the world, it is our bussiness who runs it as America affects us in a very serious way.

As for Bush and Kerry. Rubbish. Cheney however lied to the American people. Telling them there were WMDs when no such things existed and he had no evidence to indicate otherwise.

Cheney is pretty much the most feared man in the world. As in "argh he scares me" at least you know that Bush is just an ignorant dolt. Cheney has talent, which is what is scary. I know its out of proportion, but hitler had talent too. Thats why Hitler was scary, evil is fine until they can get somewhere of importance.

Cheney prbably did 0wn Edwards. But he also 0wnd the truth too.

ooookaaayy. interesting viewpoint... honestly didn't think of that.

disagree. By showing your apathy and not voting you would be showing the parties that they arent getting it right.

My 2p.


What can you possibly show a political party, by not voting?
They wont have heard of you...they wont see what you think....nothing.

Becuase they rely on voter polls to judge these things.

By not voting, your giving up the only say you have in who controls your destiny for the next four years.
In this country, the only voice you get, in the way things are done...is your vote.

When you dont vote, you say "I dont care what happens to me, or the rest of the world."

Oh but I have and all it sums up to is people arguing about WHY this and Why not him and it doesnt matter! And regardless I stated my thoughts. :fluffle:


sigh....

Dumbass....read the thread.

No one was arguing about Bush winning the election.

I voted for bush. Despite the numerous lies about him he did a better job than everybody thinks. I am glad he was in office during 911 rather than Gore. This country is much safer, and he has handled things pretty good. I know everybody is going to disagree, but many (not all) of you, simply have not looked into the REAL facts. listening to the news, or watching a 'movie' will not give you real information. Further, I voted for bush becasue Kerry had no plan for America, he said he did, but refused to tell us. The only plan I heard him talk about was his plan for Iraq, in which he plans to do everything bush is already doing, but better. He does not tell us how he will do better. Also he was far too easily swayed by what the voters wanted. That is why he said "wrong war, wrong time", because it won him the primarys, and he wanted to keep everyones vote by riding the middle of the road. If I had voted for Kerry I would not have known who I was voting for. But bush has been consistent, and made some good decisions.

Aw now dont get me wrong dude- as a Republican supporter I am glad you folks did everything you could ;)
Bush mobilised the fear factor very well, sadly the minute you fear the enemy, you've already lost!! The Constitution has all but-been forgotten.
Shamefull-really how both Democrats and Republicans-have lost their moral compass!! And I'd like to know how the most powerful greatist/richest country can fear an attack!! 9/11 was a lucky, albeit awful attack. It can never happen again! We have the best intelligence and security in world for crying out loud!

As for Bush and Kerry. Rubbish. Cheney however lied to the American people. Telling them there were WMDs when no such things existed and he had no evidence to indicate otherwise.



Do you remember a few years back when we had all those aerial photographs of large mobile missle launch platforms. I dunno about you, but that, coupled with the fact that such missles are only used to launch at other nations, kinda makes you think maybe they did have weapons of mass destruction. Consider, it isnt that hard to drive a bunch of unmarked trucks out of the country empty them sokme where safe and drop the trucks off somewhere, all right when you hear on the news that America is thinking of going to Iraq next.

sigh....

Dumbass....read the thread.

No one was arguing about Bush winning the election.
:D

9/11 was a lucky, albeit awful attack. It can never happen again! We have the best intelligence and security in world for crying out loud!

Dude... we had the best of both on September 10th too. It's like car theft. You can buy Lojack, The Club, OnStar and stick a pitbull in the backseat. If a theif really wants your car, it's gone. We have to keep vigilant. Israel has a pretty good intelligence and security force as well. Doesn't stop them from getting attacked weekly.

And I'd like to know how the most powerful greatist/richest country can fear an attack!! 9/11 was a lucky, albeit awful attack. It can never happen again! We have the best intelligence and security in world for crying out loud!


the reason an attack is such a real problem, is because everybody is so free, and these terrorists work very secretly. Also, the terrorists are all muslim, which means that if you see a muslim dumping some chemicals into a resivoir, what do you do? Do you call the police? The moment you do you are in a difficult place yourself, becasue even if they are terrorists, some liberal will make sure you are sued for racial profiling. Honestly, we need more racial profiling in this country for right now. I'm not saying we shun them, or kick them out, or make them do anything special. But the fact is all the terrorists in the 911 attacks were Muslim, so I think they should be watched.

sigh....

Dumbass....read the thread.

No one was arguing about Bush winning the election.
meant to say... actually your right on the dumbass post ! this was meant for one of the other topics! heh I have couple different browsers open and was posting the wrong one :mad:

Sorry bout that guys!! Its alittle to early heh

Of course, we could just go to a public election instead of a secret ballot - That would certainly clean up any questions about who voted!

The US used to have public voting, we got rid of it for a very good reason. Ultimately, only a secret vote is actually a free one, public voting is open to all kinds of intimidation and bribery. When the US still had public voting it was far from uncommon for people to be told "Vote for candidate X and you will lose your job, vote candidate Y and you get $20."

Ultimately only a secret ballot can eliminate such abuses. It does mean that election results are a little harder to verify, but at least they are legitimate.

The US used to have public voting, we got rid of it for a very good reason. Ultimately, only a secret vote is actually a free one, public voting is open to all kinds of intimidation and bribery. When the US still had public voting it was far from uncommon for people to be told "Vote for candidate X and you will lose your job, vote candidate Y and you get $20."

Ultimately only a secret ballot can eliminate such abuses. It does mean that election results are a little harder to verify, but at least they are legitimate.


agree!

[QUOTE=BackwoodsSquatches]
Those of you who know me, know exactly where I stand on Bush, but rest assured I have no intention of trying to tell you where you went wrong.
I'm merely curious as to why you voted (If you voted for Bush).
QUOTE]

C'mon, you know where this is going and you know you are just going to try to argue with someone.

I just wish Hacksaw Jim Duggin would come kick your ass with his 2x4 just for being so goddamn unamerican.

I just loved watching Hacksaw Jim Duggan come out with his 2x4 and chase someone around!!!!!

And why not? Would you like out-siders trying to tell you how to vote in your nations elections?

Well that just shows how ignorant Americans REALLY are when they refuse to listen to peoples cries or opinions of the outside world.

I voted for Bush largely because he responds when Americans are attacked , his responses may not be perfect but they are responses.

How about I blow YOUR fucking brains out because I don't trust you? How about I kill your family in the name of Christianity, Peace and for my own security? G.W.Bush's hipocrisy stinks!!!

No American President since, to my knowledge, has responded to an attack on Americans since FDR.

And Iraq and Afghanistan attacked you how? Most of those terrorists came from your ally: Saudi Arabia. Reality check for G.W.Bush: in your response you failed to forgive them (instead you are continuing the cycle of violence), failed to listen to the world, failed to make the world safer, failed to win favour of the world and failed in both wars even though you 'knew the consequences'.

Well that just shows how ignorant Americans REALLY are when they refuse to listen to peoples cries or opinions of the outside world.



How about I blow YOUR fucking brains out because I don't trust you? How about I kill your family in the name of Christianity, Peace and for my own security? G.W.Bush's hipocrisy stinks!!!



And Iraq and Afghanistan attacked you how? Most of those terrorists came from your ally: Saudi Arabia. Reality check for G.W.Bush: in your response you failed to forgive them (instead you are continuing the cycle of violence), failed to listen to the world, failed to make the world safer, failed to win favour of the world and failed in both wars even though you 'knew the consequences'.

Hmmm, and you VOTED for BUSH? Who's the Hipocrite now?

Read the purpose of this thread and take your overly self-valued opinion to one of the many other threads where it belongs!

And Iraq and Afghanistan attacked you how? Most of those terrorists came from your ally: Saudi Arabia. Reality check for G.W.Bush: in your response you failed to forgive them (instead you are continuing the cycle of violence), failed to listen to the world, failed to make the world safer, failed to win favour of the world and failed in both wars even though you 'knew the consequences'.
If you don't know the connection between Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda you've missed something over the past decade or so. Most of the terrorists originated from Saudi Arabia, the Taliban was harboring and sheltering most of the Al-Qaeda organization in Afghanistan.

I just loved watching Hacksaw Jim Duggan come out with his 2x4 and chase someone around!!!!!

*Sticks thumb in the air and yells*

HOOOOOOOOOOOO!

*Sticks thumb in the air and yells*

HOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Kind of giving our age away now!!!!!

Alright I voted for Bush. And I did so because basically I think John Kerry looks like Herman Munster. Also he is an "elite" who likes windsurfing and wants to ban the bible. Happy now.
Come on, seriously, why did you vote for Bush?

Gee... and every one else on NS Forums: General all think that America made a mistake Re-Electing Bush... OH I see, thanks for clearing that up. Hmm because everyone else clearly, clearly aren't humans like Americans. You are obviously more important, your ideas more valid and your skin more...let me guess, Cleaner by not doing any of the world's dirty work? And your Government more transcendent.

Hey, you said it first. The worlds dirty work...that no one wants you to do. DO not assume, and do not generalize, it makes you look like an idiot.

Come on, seriously, why did you vote for Bush?

Because I thought it would be funny.

And you know what? It was.

Because I thought it would be funny.

And you know what? It was.


Nice.

I'd clap, but my hands are busy shaking.

Yeah, killing thousands of Iraqis, torturing prisoners of war, stripping Muslims of civil liberties, attacking ideologies that differ from one's own... it strikes me as very funny, too.

Kind of giving our age away now!!!!!

Hacksaw was still rasslin' in the late 90's. You don't have to be that old.

I voted for Bush.

social security needs reform and to accept the dems big government raise everybody's taxes solution to defer the issue for another 20 years is ridiculous. a privatization plan makes sense in looking at the plans in place in Chile and Poland.

Medicare/Medcaid needs reform, the Dems had they participated could have avoided the Delay inspired bill produced by the last Congress. By immediately demonizing conservatives and the President over the corporate largesse in the bill and taking their ball home, they got what they wanted, a campaign issue. Perhaps they might have worked in the process, got a compromise?

abandoning the war in Iraq would be a tragic mistake even more than the mistake made starting it in the first place. If you know what Kerry's plan was please tell me. I'm not nuanced enough to figure it out or perhaps the electorate figured out the same thing I did. He really doesn't care as long as you vote for him.

The tax cuts did benefit the lower and middle classes. Taxes are still too high. Senator Kerry doesn't have to pay much tax as a percentage of income because Mrs. Kerry has many of her millions stashed in tax free municipal bonds. I pay a higher percentage of income than them, fine with me lower mine. and lower spending while you're at it. (fat chance of that with either I know)

many more but this post is too long now.
Dems big goverment? G.W. bush increased the size of the government in the state of texas. then as President he increased the size of the US government. BUSH IS FOR BIG GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!! his words say he is for small government but his actions say he is for big government.

I am not familar enough with the medicare issue to comment

Yea kerry never told us his plan for IRaq other than He will do better than bush. how can i know if he will do better if he does not tell me his plan?

Kerrys tax increase would only be for poeple making over 200,000 a year. Bushes tax cut gave millions in tax breaks to billionares and $300 to the average middle class person. Bush even gave tax breaks for companies that outsourced jobs to other countries!! basicly paying them to take jobs from
Americans.

Hacksaw was still rasslin' in the late 90's. You don't have to be that old.

Heck I didn't know he wrestled anywhere after he left Cowboy Bill Watts show! He use to Wrestle weekly in Tulsa Oklahoma. Jim Ross was the ring announcer back then.

What pro football team did Hacksaw Jim Duggan play for?

Does anyone remember The Junk Yard Dog?

Agreed, Fox News is conservative. Don't even bother reading any newspaper, they're all biased. Just.. listen to the sound of another plane crashing into a building because the terror threat turned Green.

So you mean, if people are more observant and keep more emergency supplies(And guns) at home, they will stop an airplane from crashing into a building? I don't think so. The Terror Alert Scale is just for scaring, and its not a new tactic either. During WW2, all sides scared the crap out of their citizens.
Of course you have to try to stop terrorism from happening, but people won't be better off if they know that the terror-alert is yellow or red.

The US used to have public voting, we got rid of it for a very good reason. Ultimately, only a secret vote is actually a free one, public voting is open to all kinds of intimidation and bribery. When the US still had public voting it was far from uncommon for people to be told "Vote for candidate X and you will lose your job, vote candidate Y and you get $20."

Ultimately only a secret ballot can eliminate such abuses. It does mean that election results are a little harder to verify, but at least they are legitimate.

Just learned this earlier this year. Doctor that works ER where I live decided to run for state house rep, he went down and got a list of the voters in the area. The list shows of course your name, address, & phone number. But it also shows how many times you have voted and what and who your last votes were. At least thats what it shows here!