NationStates Jolt Archive

I wanted to see how people feel about this issue of divorce, or staying together "for the kids". Let me give you a scenario (and no, this isn't about my life, I've been reading a Richard North Patterson book about a messy divorce, and it's got me thinking:)).

You are married, with young children. It isn't a physically or mentally abusive relationship, you just find that you aren't in love with your spouse anymore.
Do you:

a) get a divorce, and hope that your spouse will be mature about it.
b) get a divorce, and take the kids no matter what.
c) get a divorce, and let the spouse have the kids.
d) get a divorce and share custody.
e) stay together until the kids are grown.
c) stay together, because falling out of love with someone isn't a reason to leave.

I used to think that I would leave someone I wasn't in love with, but now that I have kids, I'm not sure. I love my husband, luckily, so it isn't an issue. However, if I didn't, I'm not sure I would want my kids to grow up with a loveless marriage as an example. Then again, I also wouldn't want to put them through a divorce. Hard to say... what do you think?

Sorry...I posted the poll before I thought to allow multiple choice and let you see who voted what. Don't pelt me with pocket lint please!

I could outpour a lot of feelings right now, but basically my mom stopped loving my dad so they got a divorce and have shared custody. But I think it was the most selfish thing my mom could have done. Its selfish and totally irresponsible.

Being in a loveless marriage will lead to all kinds of problems. It would be better for both parties, if they are in agreement to split up and share custody of the children. It may be a little severe, but it's better than any long term consequences. Plus, it would allow the spouses after the divorce to remain on good terms, even if they don't have an emotional attachment to the other.

I could outpour a lot of feelings right now, but basically my mom stopped loving my dad so they got a divorce and have shared custody. But I think it was the most selfish thing my mom could have done. Its selfish and totally irresponsible.
My parents got a divorce too. I think it was for the better. It could have only done down hill if they had remained in the marriage.

So, maybe she has good reason why...

I can't totally relate, but I can try...have been married sixteen years, no kids, love my SO more now than at first. But I'm trying to put myself in the outlined headspace.

I think I'd try shacking up with my intended for at least a year before I'd entertain notions of marriage, otherwise you have no clear idea if it's a worthwhile longterm arrangement. Dating leaves a pretty stilted impression, i.e. you're both 'on', like a car salesman.

People might balk at the notion of living with someone for a year or two before formalizing the arrangement, but it's time well spent, and you neatly get to sidestep the whole divorce/custody dealie should things not turn out after all.

I'm just sayin'.

Divorce tears kids up. They blame themselves ( "If I had only been a better kid they wouldn't have gotten a divorce!" ). But, if there is any physical abuse, or considerable psychological/emotional abuse, the children will ultimately be better off if the parents divorce.

My parents divorced right after I was born and I saw my mother once more after than ... when I was 10. This leaves lasting scars, but after I reached about 40 and my own children were growing up, I realized that she actually probably did me a favor in the long run by leaving. My 1/2 sister heartily concurrs with this, having been raised by our mother.

Overall, I'd have to say that divorce should be considered an option only when it's obvious that the children are going to be harmed more if the parents stay together.

Religious views set aside (since you didn't start this as a religious thread - not sure you want it to turn into one), I think if there is no love left in the marriage you should get a divorce. That situation could easily become one with mental and/or emotional abuse. And as long as both parents love the children and want the best for them, there is no reason to keep them from being just as much a part of the kids' life as they want to be. I admire parents who have divorced and set aside their differences so they could remain close for the sake of their kids.

Of course, my personal views that I would base my own decisions off of differ some, based on some religious beliefs...but I would never expect the rest of the world to live by them.

Of course, my personal views that I would base my own decisions off of differ some, based on some religious beliefs...but I would never expect the rest of the world to live by them.

I, for one, appreciate that very much!

Where is "Not get married in the first place"?

Where is "Not get married in the first place"?
LOL! Ummm .... I suppose that's still an option, yes? :)

Staying together for the kids often works out worse than a mutual breaking up.

A mate of mines parents tried this til he was 13, then loathed each other so much that they neglected him and his older brother. They had to move into a temp. foster home, and that sucked.

Break up mutually and don't let the father away with only 2 days every 2 weeks. he deserves more of the kids, you deserve more free time. unless he's an abuser or something.

I think this is so hard to call. My parents thankfully aren't divorced, but several of my friends parents are. Some stayed together for the sake of the kid and while she is a friend she is seriously messed up and this happened over 10 years ago. Others are glad their parents broke up to stop them arguing. I think it entirely depends on the age of the children. If they are over a certain age its really hard but hopefully parents can remain civil and may be getting out early is the best solution. Unless you've been in the situation I just can't imagine how awful it must be. Not being all soppy but some of the posters sounded upset and I genuinely hope that ye will be ok

Got a friend that is in this situation. Except that his is borderline abusive (verbally), with the way his wife treats him.

If you are not happy in your relationship, your kids know it (or will by the time they hit 5), it is not better for them for you to stick it out. It will just give them a screwed up view of the way that relationships are supposed to work and they will grow up to look for the same kind of marriage.

Be mature, discuss it, don't run around behind their back or anything, if you can work it out, that's fine, but if you aren't happy, you are doing neither you, your spouse, or your children any favours by 'suffering' through it.

How about; "make people take a compatability test before they marry"?

How about; "make people take a compatability test before they marry"?
That would be a really tough sell. :(

The Empire of Presidency's laws are clear about such issues.

ssu~112-14a: "Those having problems with marital relationships must report to the trasnformation chambers for destruction"

Before I can answer I have one question. Is this a mutual breakup or does one party not love the other and the other does not know?

Before I can answer I have one question. Is this a mutual breakup or does one party not love the other and the other does not know?

tell us your view for both sides and we can see your thoughts and give opinions

Before I can answer I have one question. Is this a mutual breakup or does one party not love the other and the other does not know?

I'm sure there are instances of both. I honestly still can't say what I would do in a situation like that. I'm glad I don't have to make the choice!

If it's just falling out of love, and otherwise things are cool, you owe it to the kids to stick it out. That's what my mother tried to do, and I'm extremely grateful to her that, as a kid I didn't go through what my youngest siblings went through when she finally had enough and went for a divorce.

However, and of course, falling out of love can lead to other issues like falling in love with someone else or the relationship deteriorating into acrimony or abuse. In which case, you're probably doing better by your kids to split while you still can make the post-relationship work for the kids and yourself.

All in all an argument that love is not enough when planning marriage and children - long-term compatability is as important.

Take me for example. I was best friends with my wife for about five years before we start dating, and we lived together for about five years before we started having children. And we finally decided we were probably safe to get married this year (our oldest child is now 10). Slow but safe, that's us.

Your never in love if you can fall out of it. Love is wanting to stay together with someone for the rest of your life. You can't fall out of love, because it isn't love if you do.

Well, let's start with scenario 1 - Mutual Breakup. First I would suggest marriage counseling. If that does not work, I go with divorce and hope the ex is mature about it. If it's a mutual breakup and not a contentious relationship, this will most likely work out. 50/50 custody or as close to it as possible is recommended here.

Scenario 2 - One party does not love other, other is clueless about it. Seems to me if this is one sided, the other party could get VERY hurt and bitter in a hurry. Long, drawn out custody battles seem imminent. VERY bad for kids. Again I suggest counseling, but not necessarily for both parties. Perhaps the loveless one could go first, and the other could join at counselor's request.

My choice would be stay together until; A:The kids are grown or B:Both parties fall out of love and can be respectful toward each other in front of the kids.

Your never in love if you can fall out of it. Love is wanting to stay together with someone for the rest of your life. You can't fall out of love, because it isn't love if you do.
I don't agree. People change, and sometimes you stop loving them because of that change. I know that sounds horrible, but it can be true. The closest I can compare this situation to is when I stopped being friends with someone I had known for years, and been very close to. She began to change as she got older, and so did I, and finally we found that we couldn't see eye to eye, and really, we didn't like each other anymore. It isn't the same as falling out of love with someone you thought you were going to share you life with, but I think it is comparable. People are going to go through things as they age that change their outlook... a young couple, together for five or six years, may start to realise they aren't as compatible as they once thought. You make a lot of compromises when you start out in a relationship, and later on, those compromises might start to grate on you. I have a good friend who was married 28 years, and finally decided that she wasn't happy with the role she had in the relationship, a very traditionally feminine roll as a housekeeper and 'caretaker' of her husband. She wanted to change that relationship, but he was unwilling. She used to love his protective role, but then she felt stifled by it. Luckily her kids were adults when she left him, and it wasn't as hard on them as it could have been.

I don't believe that love is unchanging, nor do I believe in "true love" that stays constant. We are temporary creatures, who need to keep reinventing ourselves. A relationship that lasts is not based on love alone...it is based on flexibility and the ability to adapt to change. It should grow as the people in it grow.

Nonetheless, when children are involved, things become less clear for me.

I can't tell anyone else what to do. I'd be all for a divorce with equal custody, but that's just me.

My parents are in a relationship that I (had I been in my mother's place) would have gotten out of long ago. I can't tell if they love each other. My dad is a difficult person, and being so difficult, it is hard to tell what he really feels/means. Sometimes, he gets borderline verbally abusive, and I didn't grow up with a respect but more of a fear of him. He is a perfectionist, and if someone doesn't live up to his perfection, he's angry. And, he usually takes it out on my mom. Yeah, she's no perfect soul, either, but most of the things he says to/about her, I have to do a double take (a "what?!" moment) then shake my head and go back to school. It's hard enough for me to live under his roof for the summer; how she's done it for the last 25 years is amazing. I have said before I wouldn't have minded a divorce because I know it wouldn't be my fault, and sometimes I've wished for it.

I don't agree. People change, and sometimes you stop loving them because of that change. I know that sounds horrible, but it can be true. The closest I can compare this situation to is when I stopped being friends with someone I had known for years, and been very close to. She began to change as she got older, and so did I, and finally we found that we couldn't see eye to eye, and really, we didn't like each other anymore. It isn't the same as falling out of love with someone you thought you were going to share you life with, but I think it is comparable. People are going to go through things as they age that change their outlook... a young couple, together for five or six years, may start to realise they aren't as compatible as they once thought. You make a lot of compromises when you start out in a relationship, and later on, those compromises might start to grate on you. I have a good friend who was married 28 years, and finally decided that she wasn't happy with the role she had in the relationship, a very traditionally feminine roll as a housekeeper and 'caretaker' of her husband. She wanted to change that relationship, but he was unwilling. She used to love his protective role, but then she felt stifled by it. Luckily her kids were adults when she left him, and it wasn't as hard on them as it could have been.

I don't believe that love is unchanging, nor do I believe in "true love" that stays constant. We are temporary creatures, who need to keep reinventing ourselves. A relationship that lasts is not based on love alone...it is based on flexibility and the ability to adapt to change. It should grow as the people in it grow.

Nonetheless, when children are involved, things become less clear for me.
I agree with just about all of this post. As to the last sentance, I think both sides should be prepared to swallow their pride or their ego or whatever, and work at making the relationship work again. Assuming they're still on civil terms of course.

Where is "Not get married in the first place"?
Exactamente....

Exactamente....

That's not an option in this situation. We're talking about people who are married. The assumption is, if you are married with a few children, you've probably been together for a few years. Maybe that relationship started out alright, but something soured and those people fell out of love with each other. If you don't love someone, you shouldn't marry them (though who someone marries isn't always their choice, depending on the culture). You can't predict that you won't stop loving that person, though.

Got to inject religion, tough, on marriage i'm an old school catholic and you don't get divorced, period. It doesn't mean you have to live together or even see each other, but you don't get divorced. As for children the general rule is to stay together until the children are mature enough to deal with the break-up, which is not the same thing as grown-up. Again this is only a general rule, if you or you tobe ex are going to be having indiscrete affairs (and figure your children know far more than you would normally think) then a seperation is better. If you or your tobe ex spouse are going to create a miserable living enviroment by remaining together, seperate. As for the messiness and child custody that's an issue that really has to be decided case by case, there are no general rules. There is however an absolute rule, the needs of your children outweigh your individual wants.

In general, I think people underestimate how much children pick up on. Being in a loveless marriage where you're just together for the kids is just as harmful as messy divorces. Things are said and done, there's resentment, there's all kinds of other things that happen when a couple stays together and they don't want that. Sure it's selfish to think only of yourself, but in this situation I believe it is what is best for the kids. So long as the parents are mature about it and can still get along and there is shared custody.

My father started having an affair with my step-mother when my mother was pregnant with me. My mum discovered this and my father left her for a few months about a year and a half after I was born. He came back and they were going to stay together. But my mother asked him to leave and a few years later they were divorced and he was getting married.
I am glad that they chose that route rather than sticking together for us. Sure me and my brothers missed out on the typical upbringing but you know just because our life wasn't what society (read: perfect Western Christain nuclear family) stipulated it should be, doesn't mean that we didn't get the love and the role models of relationships that we needed. In fact, through my father and my step-mother and my step-mother's family, I believe we got a better idea of what a loving relationship is than we could ever have gotten from my father and my mother staying together.