NationStates Jolt Archive

Who do u think will take the U.S.'s place when the empire ends?

China or India are the best bets

Sentient ants. *nod*

o ya India sorry pplz

I vote China explioting cheap American workers to manufacture shoes and action figures for poetic justice.

My bet's on China

y did I put Japan they are bout to get conquered.

I believe you will find that Japan has the most Imperialistic tendencies. The changes that China is undergoing may help to bring it up to speed, but it simply has too many people already to be able to administrate any other areas effectively.

The only one on there that realistically has a shot is China looking at the current situation, however because no one will "take over" the USA's position for a long time to come, no matter how much some may desire it, its pretty tough to tell.

CHINA!!!!GO CHINESE!!GO GO GO!GIMME A "C" C!......Ok im getting a lil bit too off hand.btw even if Kerry was elected in my opinion nuthin' would happen it would just get worse as it is now YAY!OIL!

Japan could use a army of robots to take over the world and subdue resistors with anime and manga :)

true hades.hard to tell I agree cuz we can't fortell the future...OR CAN WE!*GASP*

Tonga.

Tonga

Japan could use a army of robots to take over the world and subdue resistors with anime and manga :)
I think they've already subdued America with such (Yet they haven't managed to subdue me; rather I think they've converted me to their cause through all the philosophy in the anime I watch - and yeah, they prolly have a huge Mobile Suit armada ready to go (JK!))

LMAO ppl think the U.S. will stay imperialistic for a long time.no just no.I mean just look at our governmental defecit and trade deficit there is no way we r getting out of this shithole unless a miracle happens and politicians get it into their thick heads that the environment is FAILING AND WE NEED TO ACT NOW.U.S.=ECONOMIC GIRLY MEN Arnold S. Governator of California

I don't see America crumbling any time soon. I expect it will survive longer than the nations listed.

how???

with our thick headed politicians it ain't gonna happen we need a need to have a draft otherwise our empire won't last.

Cockroaches.

no no draft won't help really nothing will unless we come up with a good environmental policy and economic policy SOON.To tell the truth it's not going to be just the U.S. that will suffer the environmental effects.The whole world will.

The current standing system of international politics is set up as a multi-polar system. But because the USSR fell apart the US hasn't been challenged in the Empire/Superpower spot for 15 years. Now two powers are jockeying for the opens spot, Europe and China. There are problems with both though. Europe fails to have...imperialistic ambitions. Their military capabilities are puny compared to the US, and the econ of western Europe, frankly sucks a whole lot more than the US. Europe is dogged with the malaise of contentment, and thus they cannot take a superpower seat.

Meanwhile China is a more serious competitor, it's raging economy is strong, but infrastructure is highly similar to the great powers in the late 1800's, all rail. And thus inflexible. The Chinese military, though huge, is slow. It also does not have an effective manner to project global power. The 12 Nuclear tipped ICBM's, their chief long range projector of force, are old, and have inflexible targets: Suspected that 6 are targeted on Russia (from the border wars they fought with the USSR) and 6 on the US, and anyways, they would be prey to the US interceptors on Guam and on the Aleutians. China's airforce, though huge, would be kake for the US, since it is mainly composed of the ancient J-7/Mig-21 fighter. Their navy is totally a frigate navy, lacking any carriers or large battleships. They strength is in numbers of infantry and tanks, which is fine in a defensive ground campaign, but if they were to go on the offense against a neighbor, namely Russia or India, they'd need HUGE amounts of fuel.

Russia is too poor and corrupt to even consider challenging the US on anything but a nuclear weapons level.

North Korea, Please.

Japan has the knowledge and the potential abilities, but not the will. Their population is largely peaceful and orderly, not an environment to breed imperialism.

So, I believe the US will maintain its spot no matter what, but a challenger may arise, but not anytime soon (next 15 years at the smallest amout of time possible, possibly never at the longest)

A major difference between the US and Rome is that the US is isolated from the rest of the world geographically, while Rome had enemies right on it's borders.

The diff between the US and the Brit Empire is that the US wouldn't involve itself in a massive land war like WWI (and no Iraq is not like WWI, we've lost the same number of troops in Iraq in a year that they'd lose in 10 minutes during WWI). The US is fighting on the fringes, not hitting directly at the center of the enemy (Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia). Iraq and Afghanistan are the periphery in the war, and the way to win is to stay on the periphery.

children are innocent
a teenager's fucked up in the head
adults are even more fucked up
and elderlies are like children
will there be another race
to come along and take over for us?
maybe martians could do
better than we've done
we'll make great pets!
my friend says we're like the dinosaurs
only we are doing ourselves in
much faster than they
ever did
we'll make great pets!

China and India are clearly going to rule the world with their explosive economies
and massive well educated hardworking populations. Japan is finished, their population is rapidly greying and will soon enter a demographic nose dive towards non existence. Russia died in 1992, now the corpse is just rotting. I agree with the person who said that North Korea is a joke. China will invade and prop up the communists there though if things start to fall apart , there is no way China wants chaos on its boarders and all koreans have always admired China.
As for the US, sorry Americans the empire might last a decade or two more but the decline has already begun. The Euro is rapidly becoming the world currency, while the dollar is rapidly becoming the Turkish Lire (sp?). Our supposed rivals China are subsidizing our decadence by financing our debt, and effectively have us by the balls. Did you see powell sucking up to Hu Jintao, recently promising him that Taiwan will be reunified with China? The dismal performance of the American military in Iraq has North Korea and Iran laughing. The US and the Indian Air Forces had a war games execise in Alaska earlier this year and the US got their asses handed to them by the Indians so the invincibility of the US warmachine is clearly questionable. In short India and China are rising and America is in decline.

I put down China because they could woop all those other countrie's asses to kingdom come. Hence why Kim Jong Il is yet to shoot a nuke at Japan or South Korea, because China doesn't want a war on their doorstep and North Koreas gonna respect that.

The PRC, they have history on their side.

LMAO ppl think the U.S. will stay imperialistic for a long time.no just no.I mean just look at our governmental defecit and trade deficit ...

All that means is the US has a high credit rating...and people have faith in the govt's word to pay people back...

The current standing system of international politics is set up as a multi-polar system. But because the USSR fell apart the US hasn't been challenged in the Empire/Superpower spot for 15 years. Now two powers are jockeying for the opens spot, Europe and China. There are problems with both though. Europe fails to have...imperialistic ambitions. Their military capabilities are puny compared to the US, and the econ of western Europe, frankly sucks a whole lot more than the US. Europe is dogged with the malaise of contentment, and thus they cannot take a superpower seat.

Meanwhile China is a more serious competitor, it's raging economy is strong, but infrastructure is highly similar to the great powers in the late 1800's, all rail. And thus inflexible. The Chinese military, though huge, is slow. It also does not have an effective manner to project global power. The 12 Nuclear tipped ICBM's, their chief long range projector of force, are old, and have inflexible targets: Suspected that 6 are targeted on Russia (from the border wars they fought with the USSR) and 6 on the US, and anyways, they would be prey to the US interceptors on Guam and on the Aleutians. China's airforce, though huge, would be kake for the US, since it is mainly composed of the ancient J-7/Mig-21 fighter. Their navy is totally a frigate navy, lacking any carriers or large battleships. They strength is in numbers of infantry and tanks, which is fine in a defensive ground campaign, but if they were to go on the offense against a neighbor, namely Russia or India, they'd need HUGE amounts of fuel.

Russia is too poor and corrupt to even consider challenging the US on anything but a nuclear weapons level.

North Korea, Please.

Japan has the knowledge and the potential abilities, but not the will. Their population is largely peaceful and orderly, not an environment to breed imperialism.

So, I believe the US will maintain its spot no matter what, but a challenger may arise, but not anytime soon (next 15 years at the smallest amout of time possible, possibly never at the longest)

I believe your assesments on the other countries are correct, but i think you over estimate our strength. Our military is stretched far to thin. Over the past couple of decades we have slimed down and honed our militarty to go in, crush the enemy, and get out. But now we are using it as an ocupation. It just isn't designed for that. We don't have enough troops for it. We don't have enough troops to rotate the units over there, and we don't have to recruitment right now to match the losses due to people getting out of the service. The longest estimate i have seen is that our military will be at a criticle breaking point in 18 months. If we haven't set up the iraqi security forces or have gotten european troops by then we may be in a very unattainable position. This could leave us open for attack by terrorist and put us in a bad situation allwoing the other powers to step up. Hopefully it doesn't go this point, but we can't rule out the possibility.

China and India are both too large to become anything imperialistic. They have enough problems managing their own countries to expand and take on more people. Granted, they're becoming an economic power because of their sheer size, but nothing more than that.

So..... that leaves US as the last superpower for quite some time. People used to say Russia was rising to challenge the US during the Cold War and we soon learned that that wasn't even close to reality. This is all too premature to guess at anything. Conventional wisdom is wrong more often than right, especially in the last 30 years. They thought Reagan's policies would lead to war, the USSR crumbled. They thought Pakistan would never be an ally of the US, Pakistan is now a key ally of the US. Of course, if what I'm saying is conventional wisdom.... maybe I'm wrong? heh.

I think no matter what, it'll be fun and interesting to see what and how things play out.....

The EU.

I think it depends on why. If America fails and falls, probably no one for quite some time, contenders who might overtake America (as opposed to America declining) are China, India, or Europe, not because they appear to be in a postion to go Imperalist with any effect, but because they are less 'not in a position' that others.

I'd be very surprised if it were the latter, personally I think we are living in 'end-times' so far as this civilisation is concerned.

I say Russia. Why Russia? The country is trying to already take back its ex Soviet partners such as belarus and the Ukraine. Belarus might join the Russian Federation shortly and the Ukraine eventually. The Russian economy is getting stronger (Still horrible) but it can surely pull itself together. Crime is high but dropping, thanks to roubles being poured into the police force. The Military is now continuing its military projects and is upgrading its military into a volunteer force instead of a conscript one. In my opinion, Vladimir Putin is doing a good job.

I fear though that Russia is on the road of Germany, like the weimer republic in the 1920-1930's. Eventually it will become powerful, but i bet it will become a nationalist country. That why im keeping an eye out for the russian federation.

I believe your assesments on the other countries are correct, but i think you over estimate our strength. Our military is stretched far to thin. Over the past couple of decades we have slimed down and honed our militarty to go in, crush the enemy, and get out. But now we are using it as an ocupation. It just isn't designed for that. We don't have enough troops for it. We don't have enough troops to rotate the units over there, and we don't have to recruitment right now to match the losses due to people getting out of the service. The longest estimate i have seen is that our military will be at a criticle breaking point in 18 months. If we haven't set up the iraqi security forces or have gotten european troops by then we may be in a very unattainable position. This could leave us open for attack by terrorist and put us in a bad situation allwoing the other powers to step up. Hopefully it doesn't go this point, but we can't rule out the possibility.

My point is that a superpower spot takes a lot to get knocked out of, even if the military is strechted thin, which I will admit. I believe we should prepare a full fresh corp of troops just to have, but hey, that's just me.

I say Russia. Why Russia? The country is trying to already take back its ex Soviet partners such as belarus and the Ukraine. Belarus might join the Russian Federation shortly and the Ukraine eventually. The Russian economy is getting stronger (Still horrible) but it can surely pull itself together. Crime is high but dropping, thanks to roubles being poured into the police force. The Military is now continuing its military projects and is upgrading its military into a volunteer force instead of a conscript one. In my opinion, Vladimir Putin is doing a good job.

I fear though that Russia is on the road of Germany, like the weimer republic in the 1920-1930's. Eventually it will become powerful, but i bet it will become a nationalist country. That why im keeping an eye out for the russian federation.

The poor country of Russia has gotten the shit end of history so many times. When Russia finally reached a position of power as the USSR, the US rose even greater. I do not believe that Russia will have the capability to rise to a position of super-powerdom again for a long while.

The Ukraine is a nation that has desired independence from Russia and Poland for centuries, and now that they have it, I seriously doubt that they'll give it up.

I don't see America crumbling any time soon. I expect it will survive longer than the nations listed.
That would be quit an accomplishment considering that all those nations listed are several centuries, or even millenia, older then the US.

Yes, you should have put India on that poll.

The poor country of Russia has gotten the shit end of history so many times.
They have no one to blame but themselves for that.
When Russia finally reached a position of power as the USSR

Russia has been one of Europes major powers for centuries before they turned commie.

The poor country of Russia has gotten the shit end of history so many times. When Russia finally reached a position of power as the USSR, the US rose even greater. I do not believe that Russia will have the capability to rise to a position of super-powerdom again for a long while.

The Ukraine is a nation that has desired independence from Russia and Poland for centuries, and now that they have it, I seriously doubt that they'll give it up.

Unfortunatly they may have just voted in a very pro-Russian President, backed by Putin. Russia still has influence in the Ukraine I think.

The Persian Phoenix will rise from it's ashes and conquer the world.

I would say Britain or at least a Britain part of the EU super bloc but I dont think the conditions are quite ready for a revival of European power just yet. China would have to collapse as well as the US before such a thing could be considered.

no no draft won't help really nothing will unless we come up with a good environmental policy and economic policy SOON.To tell the truth it's not going to be just the U.S. that will suffer the environmental effects.The whole world will.
Well now that you mentioned environmental policy, I am wondering what will happen to US trade now that the Kyoto Protocol has been approved by Russia? With Russia joining, the environmental accord will take effect and I am sure that trade will be encouraged amongst countries that have signed it.

Bush and the US Congress have refused to ratify this agreement and it may result in less trade. Also if the US trade imbalance continues to grow, there could be even darker clouds (no pun intended) for the US economy and that means a slippage in economic clout? As the US dollar continues to drop against the world's currencies, perhaps some countries may be inclined to sell their US securities?

Since Bush has imperialistic tendencies such as Iraq, perhaps foreign countries may be less willing to buy US securities, especially considering the astronomical US debt?

It will be an interesting 4 years with Bush in for a second term, especially if the US has plans on invading another country?

I'm putting my money on China. They're in the right position for it and it won't take much for them to convince certain nations to help them upgrade.

The poor country of Russia has gotten the shit end of history so many times. When Russia finally reached a position of power as the USSR, the US rose even greater. I do not believe that Russia will have the capability to rise to a position of super-powerdom again for a long while.

The Ukraine is a nation that has desired independence from Russia and Poland for centuries, and now that they have it, I seriously doubt that they'll give it up.
Now that Russia has signed the Kyoto Protocol, their standing has improved significantly within the European community and I think this bodes well for future Russian trade initiatives. Russia could rise from the dust in a relatively short period of time.

And here is the key:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1369643,00.html

It is widely believed that Russia agreed to sign the protocol in return for the European Union -- one of the treaty's major backers -- supporting Moscow's bid to enter the World Trade Organization.

The USA Is a superpower, it could have taken
western europe over after world war II
is most natural choice to start
but did not, it rebuild it.

You forgot Poland.

I don't see America crumbling any time soon. I expect it will survive longer than the nations listed.

Nobody is suggesting it won't survive, just that it will become less important politically.

In 1900, Britain was the most powerful nation on Earth by a very long way. In 1950, it wielded tremendous influence and was the world leader in many technologies.
Now it is still there, but nobody really gives a rat's ass what it thinks about anything, and it isn't a world leader in anything.

I figure it'll be some little midget country that nobody has ever heard of, look what happened last time. Great Britain was sitting pretty, happily Imperializing most of the planet. Suddenly, some very stupid or very clever little colonists kick 'em off their bit of North America, declare themselves the 'United States of America' and set up a Republic.
Meanwhile, GB issues a statement with the 18th century equivalent of 'WTF?" and invades. The US kicks them out, and says 'HAha, were so coo, now lets work on becoming Imperialists so we can laugh at the irony when the Britains start complaining about our imperialistic tendancies.
I figure it will go something like that. Maybe Puerto Rico will take over.

And yes, I figure the US will survive as a power, just not THE power. Again, look at Great Britain, its dropped down a few rungs, but its still a good nation to have on your side. Same with France, Germany, Russia, all those others.
Russia would definitly be a good example, at one point (Under Tsar Peter the Great, I think) they were THE most powerful nation on the planet, before World War Two, they were quite powerful, ups and downs.

Russia still has influence in the Ukraine I think.
Of course they do. Afterall the Ukrainian ports are the home of the Russian Black Sea fleet. Or whats left of it.

The USA Is a superpower, it could have taken
western europe over after world war II
is most natural choice to start
but did not, it rebuild it.
WW2 and WW1 are the only just conflicts in America.All the others are about oil or land.Yes it is an empire.c my point English(people in the greatest country in the world;U.K. of course!)?In America we don't consider ourselves an empire we consider ourselves always right no matter what happens.The U.S. is failing and it might take years maybe even centuruies but, as of now the U.S. empire is crumbling.I don't understand why here in America we don't apoligize for anything.Also we always think GOD is behind us no matter what-even if we do genocide as we have on the indians.GOD PICKS NO SIDE.I'm sick of it.We don't care about anything.Where there is money invovled we take that chance.For example on the environment;it's like taking a cigarette and not quitting because it feels good.Eventually that cigarette habit kills you.America needs a leader and it needs one NOW.

The U.S. didn't just go pop there you go with your businesses and schools Eurpoeans!The Europeans had a major part in fact huge!They were the ones there not the Americans.Yes America did help finicially but, not all of it.

I vote China explioting cheap American workers to manufacture shoes and action figures for poetic justice.
That's feasible. For the past 25 years the US has been dismantling its workers' rights laws.

The US will stay for a long time, we have enough nuclear weapons to blow up the world 300 times. Youd think once would be enough, maybe twice if there were people in space, flying, or underground. But 300 frekkin times? That is so awesome!

WW2 and WW1 are the only just conflicts in America.All the others are about oil or land.Yes it is an empire.c my point English(people in the greatest country in the world;U.K. of course!)?In America we don't consider ourselves an empire we consider ourselves always right no matter what happens.The U.S. is failing and it might take years maybe even centuruies but, as of now the U.S. empire is crumbling.I don't understand why here in America we don't apoligize for anything.Also we always think GOD is behind us no matter what-even if we do genocide as we have on the indians.GOD PICKS NO SIDE.I'm sick of it.We don't care about anything.Where there is money invovled we take that chance.For example on the environment;it's like taking a cigarette and not quitting because it feels good.Eventually that cigarette habit kills you.America needs a leader and it needs one NOW.

I dont think god is behind us, I dont think were always right, I disagree with everything you said, half of America would.

You forgot Poland.

You really wouldnt think that that dumbass would get elected.

My point is that a superpower spot takes a lot to get knocked out of, even if the military is strechted thin, which I will admit. I believe we should prepare a full fresh corp of troops just to have, but hey, that's just me.


Ya but where do you get the bodies needed for the corp? Our recruitment isn't even high enough to replace the ones that are getting out.

nice question, i wish there were more choices though. Of course the only country that could become the most powerful country in the world is Canada(No, I'm not an idiot, it is sarcasm).

when the water runs out, canada'll be a force to contend with.

I dont think god is behind us, I dont think were always right, I disagree with everything you said, half of America would.
Unfortunately not all of America.

Who do u think will take the U.S.'s place when the empire ends?

The US empire ended almost a 100 years ago.

What planet are you on?

How about "unified world government"? I think the United States could continue along as a power until the world finally gets it through their collective heads that we should take nationalistic divides so seriously.

it won't happen.

the empire of America did not end 100 years ago and I live in a place called REALITY

I think the U.S. will remain a power for sometime. Even if its military and economy go into decline, it still has Hollywood and mass media to spew garbage all over the world.

Too early to tell who will be next. For all we know it may not even exist yet.