NationStates Jolt Archive

Election Results:Symbolism For Rual VS Urban Culture.

Most states with major cities seemed to be blue while ones without tended to be red. Does this seem like a general trend? Also, are the Urban and rual cultures becoming so different that they are beggining to clash?

This is been happening for decades. Large centres are more ethnically diverse, more secular, and generally opt for social progress rather than to digress. Rural areas, through no fault of their own, tend to be less educated, predominately white and of a christian denomination.

Considering the abysmal test scores found in urban schools, I wouldn't call rural areas less educated.

Considering the abysmal test scores found in urban schools, I wouldn't call rural areas less educated.
Elementary and High-school educations do not count as "Education". Anyone who has gone into post-secondary institutions knows that high school learning was joke.

This is been happening for decades. Large centres are more ethnically diverse, more secular, and generally opt for social progress rather than to digress. Rural areas, through no fault of their own, tend to be less educated, predominately white and of a christian denomination.

The thing is that now cities aren´t full of jobs and good schools, so, just like in the rural areas, used to be rare to see a child born in a city to grow up without going to school, now it´s not and even thouhg there are less and less "whites", even people who are victims of racism are starting to be racists.

11 of the biggest 20 cities were in states that went Democrat, 9 were in states that went Republican. Some of the cities ended up going Democrat while the states themselves went Republican, but some didn't, like Dallas or Pheonix (their counties, anyway).

This isn't a neat little rule. Some urban states, like Virginia, Texas, and Indiana, often vote Republican, while some rural states, like Vermont, Minnesota, and often New Mexico are blue. It works both ways.

This isn't a neat little rule. Some urban states, like Virginia, Texas, and Indiana, often vote Republican, while some rural states, like Vermont, Minnesota, and often New Mexico are blue. It works both ways.
Texas isn't urban.

This is been happening for decades. Large centres are more ethnically diverse, more secular, and generally opt for social progress rather than to digress. Rural areas, through no fault of their own, tend to be less educated, predominately white and of a christian denomination.

Oh, brother! Talk about massive over-generalization! Whew!

In this election in particular perhaps it will help to notice that two primary areas of the Country voted Republican: the South and the West/Mid-West.

The South has always been a relatively solid voting bloc, first with the Democrats and later with the Republicans. There are a variety of reasons for this, but there's insufficient room to go into them here.

The West and most of the Midwest is in competition with the Northeast for leadership of the Country and has been since Barry Goldwater ( Rep. AZ ) ran against then-President Lyndon Johnson in ( I think ) 1964. The cultural and sociological differences between the Northeast and the "New" West are legion.

Alaska and Hawaii are special cases, with Alaska usually lumped in with the "New" West and Hawaii usually joining California. California is a world unto itself and a mystery to almost everyone not born there. :)

This election was a classic case of "New" West versus Northeast.

This is been happening for decades. Large centres are more ethnically diverse, more secular, and generally opt for social progress rather than to digress. Rural areas, through no fault of their own, tend to be less educated, predominately white and of a christian denomination.

"less educated" what does living in a less crowded area have to do with your inteligence? I think if you believe in that statement then perhaps your the less educated one...

Boy, I sure wish my city was 'progressive' like those in the northeast. Maybe one day we can be the next Newark or Camden....

Texas isn't urban.
It's a mix of both rural and urban.

Texas isn't urban.

tell that to those in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio...three of the top ten cities in population in the US (census data)

Texas isn't urban.
Well, somewhat true. Parts of it aren't. But large parts are, especially the East Coast and Rio Grande area.

And don't forget that the urban areas have lower amounts of crime, especially violent crime, and have less need of social welfare programs.

And yes, the cities and the urban areas have already /been/ clashing for decades.

This isn't a neat little rule. Some urban states, like Virginia, Texas, and Indiana, often vote Republican, while some rural states, like Vermont, Minnesota, and often New Mexico are blue. It works both ways.
Indiana is very rual. Aside from Gary and Indianapolis its a very large corn field. I know, I go there often.

There are rural areas that are liberal. I myself come from Western Mass, which is by and large more liberal than eastern mass...we are very rural...and very depressed right now

What is the definiation of 'rural,' anyway? Because the 'burbs are not rural.

Election Results:Symbolism For Rual VS Urban Culture.

Most states with major cities seemed to be blue while ones without tended to be red. Does this seem like a general trend? Also, are the Urban and rual cultures becoming so different that they are beggining to clash?

Well lets see. Rural American what do we have? Sportsmen, Hunters, & Fishermen. Urban America; Buisness men, some sportsmen, some hunters, some & fishermen. If you will look at the states with the strictest guns laws they voted Kerry. The states that respect guns and have the most freedoms are then one's that voted Bush.

Now yes I know there are going to be a few exceptions but that's life!!!!!

Indiana is very rual. Aside from Gary and Indianapolis its a very large corn field. I know, I go there often.
New York State is also extremely rural. I live there, and it is nothing aside mountains and dairy farms. However, most of the people live in a handful of cities in that state.

The states that [...] have the most freedoms are then one's that voted Bush.

i hardly think the barely concealed theocracies of the south and west count as having any significantly greater amount of freedom. more like vastly less for people holding minority or unpopular opinions - which is the only yardstick to measure freedom against anyway.

Considering the abysmal test scores found in urban schools, I wouldn't call rural areas less educated.

A) how do the urban vs. rural test scores compare?
B) urban centres attract colleges and rural doesn't (except community ones which don't count) this makes the upper part of the intelligensia (which also tend to congregate more in populous areas) thick there as well.
C) rural areas have many inhabitants that will want to stay there then leave (family farms etc...) so they tend to have comparably lower expectations.
D) see Jeff Foxworthy... he's awful, but he's right...

From what i saw - DC voted for Kerry by about %90 to %10. Can an american please tell me why there no republicans in DC.

A) how do the urban vs. rural test scores compare?
B) urban centres attract colleges and rural doesn't (except community ones which don't count) this makes the upper part of the intelligensia (which also tend to congregate more in populous areas) thick there as well.
C) rural areas have many inhabitants that will want to stay there then leave (family farms etc...) so they tend to have comparably lower expectations.
D) see Jeff Foxworthy... he's awful, but he's right...


This intellectual hubris always gets on my nerves. Librals have the mistaken idea that they have a corner on education and intelligence and all those who disagree only do so because they are not enlightened. Let me tell you... I live in Chicago (a place I do not like, I'd rather be back west) and am studying computer engineering. My values are different that the average liberal. This doesn't mean I'm not educated, it just means I have a different perspective.

I grew up in Oregon. Those who live in the city (where a majority of the population lives) rarely think of the impact of the rest of the state. They pass laws that benefit them and their recreational needs and don't care if it means that people in the small towns suffer. That is where the divide comes from. Cities are more liberal and have more population and thuse more control over the affairs of a region. If they only run on there intellectual pride and don't think of pragmatic solutions then of course the rural people are going to band to gether to try to save themselves.

i hardly think the barely concealed theocracies of the south and west count as having any significantly greater amount of freedom. more like vastly less for people holding minority or unpopular opinions - which is the only yardstick to measure freedom against anyway.

Yes there are very vast differences in the gun laws state to state. California and Washington DC have some of the strictest guns of any state. They also tend to be the one's to vote anti gun candidates.

I live in Oklahoma wil some of the loosest gun laws. Most of this state votes pro gun candidates.

If you look at the map of the election and check out the gun laws of the state you will see the pattern I am speaking of.

Where I live being white is close to being a minority with the high indian population of this area.

just my observations on rural vs urban, uneductaed vs. educated...

I spent a long time growing up in cities and hanging out with academics. I went to university for a few years, then asked myself, what do I know?

I knew about history, social sciences, art theory, political theory, religious history, global economics and a whole bunch of other things that allow me to win at Trivial Pursuit. I was on my way to getting a doctorate.

(sound of screeching brakes)

I did not know how to fix a flat, operate a drill press, dig all day without getting sore, how to keep plants from dying, how to shoot a gun, how to ride a horse, etc.

I quit university and got a job as a labourer on a construction site. Now I can fix all the machines I use. And if my tools break, I can fix those too.

Urban people are more educated, but they are not smarter. Rural people know how to do more things, but they are not smarter. An urban education is great for being a lawyer, CEO, politician, debating in forums, etc. A rural upbringing is great for learning the valuable skills that keep all of us fed and warm and safe.

Now I'm moving to the country to test the skills and knowledge I've acquired since leaving university, but I can still beat everyone at Trivial Pursuit.

just my observations on rural vs urban, uneductaed vs. educated...

I spent a long time growing up in cities and hanging out with academics. I went to university for a few years, then asked myself, what do I know?

I knew about history, social sciences, art theory, political theory, religious history, global economics and a whole bunch of other things that allow me to win at Trivial Pursuit. I was on my way to getting a doctorate.

(sound of screeching brakes)

I did not know how to fix a flat, operate a drill press, dig all day without getting sore, how to keep plants from dying, how to shoot a gun, how to ride a horse, etc.

I quit university and got a job as a labourer on a construction site. Now I can fix all the machines I use. And if my tools break, I can fix those too.

Urban people are more educated, but they are not smarter. Rural people know how to do more things, but they are not smarter. An urban education is great for being a lawyer, CEO, politician, debating in forums, etc. A rural upbringing is great for learning the valuable skills that keep all of us fed and warm and safe.

Now I'm moving to the country to test the skills and knowledge I've acquired since leaving university, but I can still beat everyone at Trivial Pursuit.

That is the most intelligent post I have seen here yet. I can put more food on the table for penny's then you can put on the table with $100. The one thing you never take for granted in the rural setting or by the image of a red neck. He just might have just as much of an education as anyone else.

There is a guy that lives in Afton Oklahoma that wears a ball cap and has a farm. The bill of his ball cap is always upturned and he would remind you of the most rednecked fella you would know. Guess what kind of education he has. Nope wrong he is a Lawyer that had a multi million dollar law firm. He got tired of the rat race and sold his law firm then moved to the family farm to live a life of true luxury!!!!!

From what i saw - DC voted for Kerry by about %90 to %10. Can an american please tell me why there no republicans in DC.

No one with any sense actually lives in DC. I believe the pop. is under 500k. Everyone lives in VA and MD and commutes. Places on the outskirts like Arlington and Alexandria are more crowded.

No one with any sense actually lives in DC. I believe the pop. is under 500k. Everyone lives in VA and MD and commutes. Places on the outskirts like Arlington and Alexandria are more crowded.

DC has the strictest gun laws of anywhere in the USA!
DC has the highest murder rate in the USA!

Any wonder why no one wants to live there!!!!!

There are rural areas that are liberal. I myself come from Western Mass, which is by and large more liberal than eastern mass...we are very rural...and very depressed right now

Where in western Mass? I'm from central Mass.

This is been happening for decades. Large centres are more ethnically diverse, more secular, and generally opt for social progress rather than to digress. Rural areas, through no fault of their own, tend to be less educated, predominately white and of a christian denomination.
yes, I would tend to laugh at your absurd remarks. Inner-city schools are pathetically inadequate, while my rural high school with a total population of 600 has scores that are far above the national average. So much for ignorant, uneducated rednecks. I can kill my own food, and I still have a 1360 on the SAT (please don't think I'm bragging about that, I just think it is a valid point.)

From what i saw - DC voted for Kerry by about %90 to %10. Can an american please tell me why there no republicans in DC.
DC has a large black population.


Back to the subject at hand, here is the counties broken down into Bush and Gore, from 2000.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2000countymap.gif

Even big Democrat states like California and New York are mostly Republican, until you get to the cities.

DC has a large black population.


Back to the subject at hand, here is the counties broken down into Bush and Gore, from 2000.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2000countymap.gif

Even big Democrat states like California and New York are mostly Republican, until you get to the cities.


Good point...even the areas surrounding NYC are red...

Quite true. A poignant observation.

Yes there are very vast differences in the gun laws state to state. California and Washington DC have some of the strictest guns of any state. They also tend to be the one's to vote anti gun candidates.

I live in Oklahoma wil some of the loosest gun laws. Most of this state votes pro gun candidates.

If you look at the map of the election and check out the gun laws of the state you will see the pattern I am speaking of.

so frelling what? you claimed that the 'red states' (fookin' dirty pinko commie bastards...) had more freedoms than 'blue states'. we are talking about states that up until very recently had laws banning the existence of homosexuals, and keep trying to put fundamentalist christianity into the public schools, and want all the judges to base their rulings on a messed up version of a particular religion, etc, etc. so what if you can own a gun there? you could own rocket launchers in afghanistan under the taliban. nearly everyone in many of the african dictatorships is packing far more heat than you could ever dream of owning. guns alone do not freedom make.

Election Results:Symbolism For Rual VS Urban Culture.

Most states with major cities seemed to be blue while ones without tended to be red. Does this seem like a general trend? Also, are the Urban and rual cultures becoming so different that they are beggining to clash?
Untrue. Georgia, Florida, Colorado, Texas, Missouri, Ohio, Virginia, and others all have major cities.

Even big Democrat states like California and New York are mostly Republican, until you get to the cities.

the map is misleading in several ways.

number one, it colors counties entirely on the basis of who got more votes there, as oppossed to shading them in accord with the percentage of the vote going to each candidate. a huge percentage of those counties were actually ridiculously close, and therefore cannot be said to be decisively one color or another. and you'd also have to account for nader supporters...

number two, the map is visually misleading by making the size of a county seem important. in actual fact, some of those huge counties out west have fewer people living in them than a couple high-rise apartment buildings. and some of those smallish counties hold more people than entire states.

i would really like to make a map that skews the size of counties in proportion to their population and then look at both the same coloring scheme and a shaded version. that would represent a much more meaningful graphic depiction of politics in the us.

and you'd also have to account for nader supporters...

for example, the following counties in new york that that map lists as red actually had more combined support for either gore or nader (and while nader voters cannot be lightly assumed to be democrats, they certainly demonstrate a position much farther left than bush):

cortland - 51.3%
dutchess - 51.9%
oswego - 50.6%
ostego - 50.8%
saratoga - 50.0%

the same could be done for many other states. http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/ has all the data you'll ever need.

yes, I would tend to laugh at your absurd remarks. Inner-city schools are pathetically inadequate, while my rural high school with a total population of 600 has scores that are far above the national average. So much for ignorant, uneducated rednecks. I can kill my own food, and I still have a 1360 on the SAT (please don't think I'm bragging about that, I just think it is a valid point.)

Good post, but it won't change anyone's opinion. The media always reinforces the Southern redneck stereotype. For some reason this is an acceptable stereotype.

Good post, but it won't change anyone's opinion. The media always reinforces the Southern redneck stereotype. For some reason this is an acceptable stereotype.

quite probably because on average the only schools in the us that don't utterly suck (at least from what anyone can tell based on test scores) are those in urban areas outside of the inner-city. which, oddly enough, is also where all the money is.

so frelling what? you claimed that the 'red states' (fookin' dirty pinko commie bastards...) had more freedoms than 'blue states'. we are talking about states that up until very recently had laws banning the existence of homosexuals, and keep trying to put fundamentalist christianity into the public schools, and want all the judges to base their rulings on a messed up version of a particular religion, etc, etc. so what if you can own a gun there? you could own rocket launchers in afghanistan under the taliban. nearly everyone in many of the african dictatorships is packing far more heat than you could ever dream of owning. guns alone do not freedom make.

Guess I will have to post it one more time for it to sink in. I will add one line in though so maybe you can understand.

Yes there are very vast differences in the gun laws state to state. California and Washington DC have some of the strictest guns of any state. They also tend to be the one's to vote anti gun candidates.

Washington DC also has the highest murder rate!

I live in Oklahoma wil some of the loosest gun laws. Most of this state votes pro gun candidates.

If you look at the map of the election and check out the gun laws of the state you will see the pattern I am speaking of.

Guess I will have to post it one more time for it to sink in. I will add one line in though so maybe you can understand.

you see, i'm not disagreeing that most republicans are single or double issue voters, and that guns are one of those issues. i've been responding to this sentence,

"The states that respect guns and have the most freedoms are then one's that voted Bush." (emphasis mine)

so frelling what?

Can I just say how awesome it is that you used the word "Frelling"?!?!?!?

Can I just say how awesome it is that you used the word "Frelling"?!?!?!?

heh, it's my favorite made-up swear. someday i'd like to see it in general usage and be considered taboo.

Did you know that the top 16 states with the highest average IQs favored John Kerry over President Bush?

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

Did anyone see a graphic that showed all the counties in the US on one map indicating whether they were Kerry or Bush counties? I saw one in my paper that showed about 95%+ counties voted for Bush and a few (SF,Seattle, NY,etc...) voted for Kerry. Anyone else see this?

http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/GENERAL/pe2004USA_sm.png

just remember, in a significant percentage of those the vote was something less than a 50-40 split. and a good number were within 3%. and many of the ones out west have fewer than 3000 people living in them - which is smaller than most tiny little towns in wisconsin.

DC has the strictest gun laws of anywhere in the USA!
DC has the highest murder rate in the USA!

Any wonder why no one wants to live there!!!!!
Also the city that reelected Marion Barry for mayor, a convicted cocaine user.

Did anyone see a graphic that showed all the counties in the US on one map indicating whether they were Kerry or Bush counties? I saw one in my paper that showed about 95%+ counties voted for Bush and a few (SF,Seattle, NY,etc...) voted for Kerry. Anyone else see this?
Yes, I have it saved as a background on my computer. It is very revealing in that it supports the urban vs rural model that has been discussed on this thread. Look at New York, 90% is red, but the blue area is NYC, so New York always ends up in the Dem column.

http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/datagraph.php?fips=36&year=2004

i don't know that i would call that 90%...

Isn't it kind of interesting that the urban areas - the ones most threatened by terrorism, such as New York City and DC - voted for Kerry, while the rural areas that have a nil chance of being terrorist targets voted for Bush - because of his stronger stance on terrorism?

Rural people don't dodge issues, they say what they mean. They don't have all these made up abstract words to water down whatever they say until it doesn't have any meaning at all. Urban people tend to hypostatisize alot. I think it's from watching TV. Most rural people don't have time to watch TV so they don't think like everyone else does. Rural people aren't intelligent? I get a laugh out of that one. I know this guy who owns a ranch who can only make a six figure income with his education. He's told me all these weird stories that I think you would have to have a high security clearance to know. Intellectual snobbery is not going to get you anywhere. A true genius has original thoughts. Invention is never made from thinking like everybody else.

Did you know that the top 16 states with the highest average IQs favored John Kerry over President Bush?

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

Did you know that IQ list was actually compiled off of salary? Go through the links to find out how he built his list.

So, according to him, the people with higher salaries are smarter. Ok, until you take into account COLA and realize that all the higher salaries are in the cities. I guess if you live somewhere that costs more, you're smarter? Try again. You just reinforced the division without proving anything. The most expensive states voted for Kerry.

while the rural areas that have a nil chance of being terrorist targets voted for Bush - because of his stronger stance on terrorism?

i'm fairly positive that terrorism had only a small part in their reasons to support him. the county breakdown is roughly the same as it's been since the republicans took over the position of cultural reactionaries. i'd place a rather large bet that mostly it's opposition to gay liberation, women's rights, gun control, and the seperation of church and state that throws their support to the republicans.

(except for the counties northwest of milwaukee, wisconsin - i'm pretty sure that they just vote republican because that's where the republican party got its start)