NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/canada.us.reut/index.html

On of my friends came into school w/paper stapled to his shirt reading *Moving to Canada!*

Do they have elections in Canada? I don't want to move to somewhere where I feel like me and everyone around me is responsible for actually choosing who fucks us over. Living in Iraq, I would have felt guilt free, because some other nation chose who fucked my nation over for me.

Do they have elections in Canada? I don't want to move to somewhere where I feel like me and everyone around me is responsible for actually choosing who fucks us over. Living in Iraq, I would have felt guilt free, because some other nation chose who fucked my nation over for me.

If we didn't have electins, it wouldn't be a democracy would it?

If we didn't have electins, it wouldn't be a democracy would it?
bin Laden blames American citizens for the actions of their leaders who are sometimes chosen by like 20% of the total population, tops. (58mil/300mil is about 20%, and this was a record turnout) Do you think anyone blames Iraqi citizens for the bullshit of Saddam Hussein?

bin Laden blames American citizens for the actions of their leaders who are sometimes chosen by like 20% of the total population, tops. (58mil/300mil is about 20%, and this was a record turnout) Do you think anyone blames Iraqi citizens for the bullshit of Saddam Hussein?

Nobody blames Iragi citizens for the abuses of their former dictator...I don't see where this is going, Opal.

Connect the dots for me, willya?

Why would you want to move anyway? I dont like Bush, but thats no reason to leave your country. I'm a canadian and I believe our country is great, but so is yours. Just think after 4 years he can never become president again( unless he rewrites your constitution.)

Why would you want to move anyway? I dont like Bush, but thats no reason to leave your country. I'm a canadian and I believe our country is great, but so is yours. Just think after 4 years he can never become president again( unless he rewrites your constitution.)

Cheney could, assuming he doesn't forget to wear his fleshlike human mask in public...

...okay, I'll say it again. Pretend like I said it slow and read it real slow for me, okay?

Americans vote for their leaders. American leaders screw over the Middle East. Osama isn't happy with American leaders screwing over the Middle East, so he terrorize the people who choose the American leaders (namely, American citizens), so that (if Osama gets what he wants), Americans will choose dictators that will not mess up the Middle East any more than it already is.

Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-Il are all dictators. Cubans, Iraqis, and North Koreas do not get blamed for the stupid actions of Castro, Hussein or Jong-Il because it's assanine to blame them; they don't have control of who is in charge.


Let me make this more clear...suppose you are a DJ for a party and have to choose the music. If no one likes the music, it's your fault. However, if instead of a DJ at the party, someone put all the songs in the world into a winamp playlist and put it on random play, if no one liked the music, they can't really blame it on anyone since no one chose the music.

Why would you want to move anyway? I dont like Bush, but thats no reason to leave your country. I'm a canadian and I believe our country is great, but so is yours. Just think after 4 years he can never become president again( unless he rewrites your constitution.)
Jeb can run in 2008, and Bush's goal is to not make progress on abortion or gay rights or any social issues that easily win over the south so that Jeb can win over the south on those issues. Jeb won't be a dumbass warmonger in the Middle East so his 2012 re-election wouldn't be too difficult. They'll end up lining up someone else related to Bush in 2012. We're turning into a Theocratic Monarchy.

Thats not a big deal, its only if you want to become a citizzen. Just show up at the border and say "Eh?" Bam your in.
/not moving to Canada...yet

Cheney could, assuming he doesn't forget to wear his fleshlike human mask in public...
:rolleyes: Cheney will not run, he has said so numerous times.

Jeb will probaby not run. well, maybe.

I agree- America seems to be marching on an irreversible trend to the far right- can we fix it? If not, then why stay on what many would consider a sinking ship?

I agree- America seems to be marching on an irreversible trend to the far right- can we fix it? If not, then why stay on what many would consider a sinking ship?
because it makes no sense to run away if you don't like the direction your nation is going. Think Mandela and Welesa.

Do they have elections in Canada? I don't want to move to somewhere where I feel like me and everyone around me is responsible for actually choosing who fucks us over. Living in Iraq, I would have felt guilt free, because some other nation chose who fucked my nation over for me.




Of course we have elections in Canada. And it truly does go by popular vote and nothing else.

Of course we have elections in Canada. And it truly does go by popular vote and nothing else.
So it's a tyranny of the majority?

So it's a tyranny of the majority?



No we actually have a system were there is an oppostion and we actually have people from four different parties elected and one independent. We go by the parliament system.

Of course we have elections in Canada. And it truly does go by popular vote and nothing else.
Our elections are not by POPULAR VOTE!
We have a parliamentary seat system. It's called "First-past-the-post"
Theoretically, The Conservatives could receive popular support, and yet the liberals form the government.

Our elections are not by POPULAR VOTE!
We have a parliamentary seat system. It's called "First-past-the-post"
Theoretically, The Conservatives could receive popular support, and yet the liberals form the government.


Give me an instance when that's happened in the last 100 years. I doubt there is one, if you win over 100 seats and the opposition wins 60, you're likely to get more of the popular vote too.

It happens to a lesser extent all of the time. The NDP received about 23% support nationwide in the last election, however, only represent about 12% of Parliament. How is that by popular vote?

Proportional Representation by Population is a big issue in parliament right now, and hopefully we have something in place by the time the current government is dissolved.

there's all sorts of people saying they are moving to canada. I find that funny.

It happens to a lesser extent all of the time. The NDP received about 23% support nationwide in the last election, however, only represent about 12% of Parliament. How is that by popular vote?

Proportional Representation by Population is a big issue in parliament right now, and hopefully we have something in place by the time the current government is dissolved.




The NDP is a joke of a party and Jack Layton is a joke of a leader. For that reason alone, I hope proportional representation isn't passed. Of course Ontario should have more seats than Saskatchwan, given there is less than 1 million people in Sask and over 10 million in Ontario.

Ok. So you are agreeing that our government isn't chosen by Popular Vote then?

Ok. So you are agreeing that our government isn't chosen by Popular Vote then?



I'll give you one example where it wasn't: In the Saskatchewan Provincial Election in 2000, the oppostion Sask Party got 39% of the vote compared to 38% for the governing NDP. The NDP won by 2 seats. That is the only time I think of it working that way. So there are always exceptions but they are rare.

I'll give you one example where it wasn't: In the Saskatchewan Provincial Election in 2000, the oppostion Sask Party got 39% of the vote compared to 38% for the governing NDP. The NDP won by 2 seats. That is the only time I think of it working that way. So there are always exceptions but they are rare.
I know this, I live in Saskatoon.


But if you concede that this is a case of non popular vote governing, how can you not agree with our federal elections being the same. Is it only because you dislike the NDP? If so.....

I'll give you one example where it wasn't: In the Saskatchewan Provincial Election in 2000, the oppostion Sask Party got 39% of the vote compared to 38% for the governing NDP. The NDP won by 2 seats. That is the only time I think of it working that way. So there are always exceptions but they are rare.

And yet, if you listen to the ravings of some, you'd think that it is an everyday occurrence in the US for the electoral vote to not match the popular vote. People need to remember that it is a pretty rare occurence and that our electoral system does work almost all the time.

I know this, I live in Saskatoon.


But if you concede that this is a case of non popular vote governing, how can you not agree with our federal elections being the same. Is it only because you dislike the NDP? If so.....


I guess it makes it a more level playing field but I'm not that unhappy with how the last election went (although I was furious about our provincial one). It would be interesting to hear what the Green Party has to say, if only for a short time.

Oh no, neither am I. Historically, Minority Governments have been quite productive. Plus, as a carded Liberal, I was relieved enough to see that they formed parliament.

Oh no, neither am I. Historically, Minority Governments have been quite productive. Plus, as a carded Liberal, I was relieved enough to see that they formed parliament.



Well I'm a Conservative, although we didn't deserve to win that last election. I was just glad that we got as many seats as we did.

..Just think after 4 years....2008? its going to be Arnolds year

Nuh-uh. Hillary Clinton

Of vourse there are elections in Canada. It is sensibly looking like the american system exept that there are 308 seats at the halls of commons and the party who gets the most of the seats is considered to b the leading government, the second one is the opposition leader party, and the 2 other parties are the rest of the opposition. It is almost all decided by popular vote, except for this years election where the Quebecker party got 15% of the votes and got 50 seats and the NDP got 23% of the votes and have just 23 seats...n by the way, I vote liberal because I don't think that building aircraft carriers n sending troops in Iraq are more urgent that upgrading our bad lookin health care system.

(A resumee of the Canadian politics, by the bored 1)

Of vourse there are elections in Canada. It is sensibly looking like the american system exept that there are 308 seats at the halls of commons and the party who gets the most of the seats is considered to b the leading government, the second one is the opposition leader party, and the 2 other parties are the rest of the opposition. It is almost all decided by popular vote, except for this years election where the Quebecker party got 15% of the votes and got 50 seats and the NDP got 23% of the votes and have just 23 seats...n by the way, I vote liberal because I don't think that building aircraft carriers n sending troops in Iraq are more urgent that upgrading our bad lookin health care system.

(A resumee of the Canadian politics, by the bored 1)



Well the new health plan will bankrupt the government and Mr. Goodale, who is my MP, wasn't happy with it.

Nuh-uh. Hillary ClintonIf the choice is Hilary or Arnold...I take the Terminator

Arnold may be Republican but he's a left-leaning moderate (not that I find anything wrong with that) so there's no way he'd make it through the primaries, considering the political atmosphere in southern and mountain/great plains states.
If Hillary were president and had the same policies as Bill our country would be making the same progress we saw in the "roaring 90's" but I don't think she'd get elected.

If moving to Canada is too dificult, why not secede? New Englanders wouldn't mind, and the midwest (minus southern Ohio and Indiana) can come too! We'd ally ourselves with the Pacific states, and then we'd just sit and wait for the rest of America to destroy itself with its reactionary politics.

What is this Canadian four-party craziness? You mean you have a diversity of political organizations that represent a diversity of national interests on a real level? Surely this is not true! Everyone knows that there are only two ideologies in any government! [/sarcasm]
I'm actually a Canadian citizen (moved to the US when I was 8), and I'm one of those pissed-off liberals (not Liberals-though I suspect I would agree with them a lot) who is speaking of moving. Unfortunately, since I'm a minor, the choice is not mine to make. In the meantime, I'll stay here and do my best to ensure that the Son-of-a-Bush gets nothing done in the next 4 years. And that the GOP gets solidly hammered in '08.

If the choice is Hilary or Arnold...I take the Terminator




Arnold message to Hilary, "I'll crush you just like I crushed that wimp Grey Davis and jiust like I'd crush your wimpier husband, Bill Clinton"

I don't think Arnold is eligible to run for president, so discussion of him running is moot....

Well not yet unless they make amends to the Constitution allowing foreign born citizens to be elected as President. But that won't happen as a lot of Americans probably won't accept it because of the threat the person in question will still be loyal to their home country.

Jeb can run in 2008, and Bush's goal is to not make progress on abortion or gay rights or any social issues that easily win over the south so that Jeb can win over the south on those issues. Jeb won't be a dumbass warmonger in the Middle East so his 2012 re-election wouldn't be too difficult. They'll end up lining up someone else related to Bush in 2012. We're turning into a Theocratic Monarchy.
Better warn the Kennedy's. Arnold is just the most recent of a long line...

The federal government has more than enough money to fund the 41 billion dollar healthcare deal. I dont like the special deal for Quebec but hey, at least they got a deal signed which is more than I expected. Though I am a carded liberal and they have benefited from the first past the post system, I am very much for a STV version of proportional representation. It would better reflect the support the NDP, Green Party, and Marijuana Party recieve. All of those parties would have substantially more seats and the Green and Marijuana Parties would actually get seats for a change.

The back door to America!

The federal government has more than enough money to fund the 41 billion dollar healthcare deal. .
They keep it in jars under their seats.

They keep it in jars under their seats.
Mwaha.


Yes, the Federal Gov is going to be loaded for the next decade. Most analysts are calling for 7-12 Billion dollar surpus' per year, and that doesn't even include the 2.5 billion a year that they are trying to cut out of the current Ottawa working budget.

I agree- America seems to be marching on an irreversible trend to the far right- can we fix it? If not, then why stay on what many would consider a sinking ship?

For Democrats, we are in the middle of the dark years. Think Republican in the 1950s and 60s.

Beginning in 1932 the Democrats began nearly forty years of political domination, with only the two term election of a moderate, non-dealogue Republican president in Dwight Eisenhower during the 1950s as a brief respite from Democratic control of the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government. It was a time when everyone, Democrat and Republican alike, was proud to call themselves some version of liberal.

Well, we had our Dwight Eisenhower in Bill Clinton (who was really much more conservative than either Republicans or Democrats care to admit - think NAFTA, defense of marriage act, welfare "reform," the telecommunications act, emphasis on a balanced budget, etc.). The beginning of GOP dominance began with Nixon and really took off with Reagan. We are now at the high water mark of Republican control in the nation. Liberal has become a pejorative and Democratic candidates will continue to try and show they are just as conservative as their GOP counterparts.

The GOP will take the country too far to the right and there will be a backlash, just as there was a backlash to liberalism in the 1970s and 1980s. However, I think these dark days will last for another decade or two. Yet, just as the conservative revolution began with Goldwater, at the height of liberal domination, it is now, at the height of GOP control, that liberals must begin planning and working for a return to power.

Jeb can run in 2008, and Bush's goal is to not make progress on abortion or gay rights or any social issues that easily win over the south so that Jeb can win over the south on those issues. Jeb won't be a dumbass warmonger in the Middle East so his 2012 re-election wouldn't be too difficult. They'll end up lining up someone else related to Bush in 2012. We're turning into a Theocratic Monarchy.

I forgot about Jeb. And from what I hear, Jeb isn't a moron. We're doomed.

What's a GOP?

What's a GOP?
Grand Old Party IIRC, another name for the Republicans

The NDP is a joke of a party and Jack Layton is a joke of a leader. For that reason alone, I hope proportional representation isn't passed. Of course Ontario should have more seats than Saskatchwan, given there is less than 1 million people in Sask and over 10 million in Ontario.

The NDP, formerly the CCF, brought you medicare. So next time you go to the doctor, hospital clinic, or emergency room and you don't have to pay for treatment, you should thank those 'jokers' and Mr. Tommy Douglas.

By the way, most of the time, by the time the polls close in Ontario, the election is already decided. The west simply does not have enough people to influence the decision. This why we need a triple E senate.

Ok. So you are agreeing that our government isn't chosen by Popular Vote then?

It is and it isn't.. you have to get the way Americans vote out of your head to understand it. Canada doesn't have a winner takes all system for each province. We have what is known as proportional representation based on "ridings" whoever wins the riding and there are many in any given province wins a vote for their party, thus a vote for their MP and thus a vote for the PM. It's in my view a better system. However it is not an absolute popular vote, the majority picks each MP in their riding. Whoever gets the most MP's and or "seats" wins the control of the government also.

It is and it isn't.. you have to get the way Americans vote out of your head to understand it. Canada doesn't have a winner takes all system for each province. We have what is known as proportional representation based on "ridings" whoever wins the riding and there are many in any given province wins a vote for their party, thus a vote for their MP and thus a vote for the PM. It's in my view a better system. However it is not an absolute popular vote, the majority picks each MP in their riding. Whoever gets the most MP's and or "seats" wins the control of the government also.

To expand on that: When I go to vote, I vote for the MP for my riding. Each candidate in my riding represents a party. Whichever candidate for my riding wins in my riding becomes my MP (member of parliament) and he or she gets a seat in the House of Commons. Whichever party gets the most seats in the House of Commons becomes the governing party, and the leader of this party becomes our Prime Minister.

The NDP, formerly the CCF, brought you medicare. So next time you go to the doctor, hospital clinic, or emergency room and you don't have to pay for treatment, you should thank those 'jokers' and Mr. Tommy Douglas.

By the way, most of the time, by the time the polls close in Ontario, the election is already decided. The west simply does not have enough people to influence the decision. This why we need a triple E senate.



The CCF actually had some brains but sadly has morphed into the NDP. Tommy Douglas did create medi care and I thnak for that but there is things he started in Saskatchewan that have actually begun to be problems for the province.

Blame Canada, yellow bird on the big blue mountain!

Yours,
Mr. Luxury Yacht (It is spelt Luxury Yacht but is actually pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove)

Blame Canada, yellow bird on the big blue mountain!

Yours,
Mr. Luxury Yacht (It is spelt Luxury Yacht but is actually pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove)



Do you actually have ANYTHING relevant to say, or do you just post what ever runs throuh your head?

Do you actually have ANYTHING relevant to say, or do you just post what ever runs throuh your head?

Trousers!

Yours,
Mr. Luxury Yacht (It is spelt Luxury Yacht but is actually pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove)

Do you actually have ANYTHING relevant to say, or do you just post what ever runs throuh your head?

C'mon now, don't get all uptight. Mr. Throatwobbler Mangrove is just an upper-class twit, after all...

LOL

C'mon now, don't get all uptight. Mr. Throatwobbler Mangrove is just an upper-class twit, after all...

LOL

Yes! My father was a banker and my mother won the derby, after all!

Yours,
Mr. Luxury Yacht (It is spelt Luxury Yacht but is actually pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove)

2008? its going to be Arnolds year

And where was he born?

Blame Canada, yellow bird on the big blue mountain!

Yours,
Mr. Luxury Yacht (It is spelt Luxury Yacht but is actually pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove)

I love your sig! I wish they still played Python reruns on BRAVO.....

Sorry for being completely off topic.

About proportionate representation, it would be nice to have some form of it. I know in some countries, maybe New Zealand?, they have a system that's part first-past-the-post and part prop. rep. That way there'd be some guaranteed regional representation plus a larger number of parties and opinions in parliament. And more minority govs, which is a good thing.

About proportionate representation, it would be nice to have some form of it. I know in some countries, maybe New Zealand?, they have a system that's part first-past-the-post and part prop. rep. That way there'd be some guaranteed regional representation plus a larger number of parties and opinions in parliament. And more minority govs, which is a good thing.

There's lots of democracies with prop. rep. we certainly need it in Canada. Otherwise the number of elected seats has nothing too much to do with the overall vote.