NationStates Jolt Archive

Congratulations on your victory. I hope you all understand the direction your country will soon head.

The republican party believes in a basic sense that the government belongs in the bedroom, not the boardroom. Unlimited corporate freedom, with limited personal freedom.

Elements of the republican party are enjoying deficit spending with tax cuts, because it is an attempt by those elements to make a logical case for destroying a public education system as well as a public healthcare system. Their main focus is to eliminate government spending on most things by saying "look folks, we just don't have the money."

They are attempting to create an oligarchy, and while that may not be the best thing for all of you, it's a very good thing for me. This is because I'm intelligent and connected enough that if it does happen, I'll be the outspoken and ignored liberal among the oligarchy. "Oh isn't that cute, it's will the moralist." <-- That's how the rest of the Oligarchy will view me, and then they'll just go on doing what they will.

As for you chickenhawks? Enjoy being drafted, and recognize that it's no one's fault but your own. Personally, bush can't touch me. Nothing he does hurts me. My family makes enough that his tax cuts help out a lot. My parents can actually afford to send me to college without financial aid, and because of family connections I will be able to get a job. No matter what. If war comes, I have been such a strong and active Christian that at a hearing to exempt me from the draft I will be able to call on many minister, and at least three bishops.

I am safe. I'm sorry that most of you have chosen to vote for someone because you feel that attempting to stamp out things that are impossible to destroy, namely homosexuality and abortion, rather than voting in your own economic interests. I tried to vote to save you from yourselves, despite the fact that it was not in my own best interests, but alas, I was foiled.

Good luck, as you are most all going to need it

-Will

Edit: As far as civil rights are concerned, if a good upstanding lad from a (powerful) religious family was imprisoned for speaking out for Arminian Theology, the Christian right would attack the president's plans AS WELL as the ACLU. Civil rights wise I'm safe.

Edit: Also, I really don't care about politics, as I have more important battles to fight. Countries rise and fall, but the kingdom of god is eternal. If america falls, well, I pledge my allegience to god, and god alone. Not a political party, not a nation, but to god. It is because of that, and the social justice theme of the bible, that I tend to vote democrat. You aren't going to stop sin by making it illegal... maybe I'll post later on moral law.

Listen carefully.

There will be no draft.

Listen carefully.

There will be no draft.

You cannot say so for certain. You believe so, but it's still a definite possibility. If bush wishes to invade Iran, which I and many others believe he does, a draft is necessary. It's not like he hasn't misled the nation before, is it? I would be hesitant to believe him if I were you.

You seem pretty sure of yourself.

Listen carefully.

There will be no draft.
READ your name! Then repeat that! We are stretched so thin militarily. A draft is probably the only way we can stay in Iraq without giving most of control to UN.

You seem pretty sure of yourself.

It's easy to be sure when he can picture the rest of us burning in hell for disagreeing.

You seem pretty sure of yourself.

I have no reason not to be. I am a member of the upper class. I am very very well connected just because of family ties. Governor of my state would be very easy for me to acheive within the next few years, (especially with all the christians around here.) But I will not chose that path, because the kingdom of god has earned my allegiance, not the United States.

Listen carefully.

There will be no draft.
there will be no involuntary draft

It's easy to be sure when he can picture the rest of us burning in hell for disagreeing.

Please, I'm not so arrogant as that. It isn't up to me who goes to heaven and hell. The only person who's salvation I have any say in is my own. I'm arminian for god's sake, not a psychotic calvinist. (Calvinists are generally the fools who presume to cast god's judgement on the earth...)


Edit: I also understand that yes, I could be wrong. In four years, if the earth and the United States are still in good condition, I will have to admit to many of my peers that I was wrong. But I haven't been wrong about the bush administration thus far, and have been saying these things since 2000.

The lunatic fringe left says the same thing every time a Republican wins an election. And guess what: IT NEVER HAPPENS! IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

Follow your hero George Soros and just MOVEON.

There will be no draft. Period.

there will be no involuntary draft

There is no other kind! By definition.

You don't know that for sure, chances are we won't but, with Bush in for his second term he could technicly do mostly anything he wants to, this is because he dosn't have to worry about pissing anyone off becasuse he's not being reelected in four years. So my main point is "you never can know for sure; until it happens"

The lunatic fringe left says the same thing every time a Republican wins an election. And guess what: IT NEVER HAPPENS! IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

Follow your hero George Soros and just MOVEON.


I'm trying to help the country move forward. Unfortunately, you must really desire that persons at my 'level' be your monarchs. We've also never had a republican like bush. I happen to be a registered republican incidentally... I'd prefer McCain were in office, but It's obvious that any sane republican is being kept away from the presidency.

You cannot say so for certain. You believe so, but it's still a definite possibility. If bush wishes to invade Iran, which I and many others believe he does, a draft is necessary. It's not like he hasn't misled the nation before, is it? I would be hesitant to believe him if I were you.


All i know is that i saw bush adimately saying there would be no draft. He said many times in different speaches and debates. Could he be lying. yes. but consider that kerry brought up the issues then when asked himself wether he would reinstate the draft he completly sidestepped the issue. Cause thats what lawyers do. I was more afraid of kerry than bush.

i voted libertarians.

The Election of Bush is not the Apocalypse.

The Constitution will not be supended.
There will be no draft.
The divide between Western Europe and the US will grow greater, but this is natural, now that we are devoid of our common enemy, the USSR, we will drift apart.
There will be no nuclear warfare, barring someone else starting it.
No one is going to sell the US to China.
Unemployment will stay in the area around 5%-5.5%, better than Europe.
Gay marriage will not be banned on a national basis.
We will not burn Jews or any other minorities.
We will not take to wearing jackboots and riding pants.
We will not arrest people during the night and make them disappear.
No "Day After Tomorrow" situation will occur, b/c it is totally unscientific (and the idea was proposed by Art Bell, and any and everything involving him is bunk, if you don't believe me listen to his radio show, or Whitley Streavers.)
Abortion will not be banned.
Deficits will go up, but this is a natural result of having unified government (something I am opposed to)


So, Kerry supporters, don't worry. I suggest that you be sad and depressed for now, it is vital to your emotional health that you express you emotions. I truly mean this, you are involved and informed, just as I am. Please, I'd much rather see you happier in a week or so, then holding in sadness.

There is no other kind! By definition.

No, but there IS misuse of military units. The national guard should have stayed at home so that -if riots occurred in florida because of possible elections problems- they could protect us from mob violence. That is what is reffered to as a "Back Door" draft. The national guard is intended for home defense, not foreign assault. The army reserve... eh. The guard? Keep them here. We may need them.

I'm trying to help the country move forward. Unfortunately, you must really desire that persons at my 'level' be your monarchs. We've also never had a republican like bush. I happen to be a registered republican incidentally... I'd prefer McCain were in office, but It's obvious that any sane republican is being kept away from the presidency.

Just as you pointed out, I myself would like for McCain, and I and a strong democrat, I hate people that always vote for their party, one should vote for who THEY themselves like.

I'm trying to help the country move forward. Unfortunately, you must really desire that persons at my 'level' be your monarchs. We've also never had a republican like bush. I happen to be a registered republican incidentally... I'd prefer McCain were in office, but It's obvious that any sane republican is being kept away from the presidency.
We were given the choice between a socialist priss or an overly-aggressive fratboy. Frankly, I'd rather not go the socialist route, and 51% of the country agreed with me. Well, I voted for Badnarik, but I'm glad that Kerry didn't win.

Anyway, you are showing a massive failure to understand the issues facing the country, the presidential candidates and their proposed solutions for those issues, and how the process of running the country works. I guess your private school upbringing wasn't quite worth the money.

Just as you pointed out, I myself would like for McCain, and I and a strong democrat, I hate people that always vote for their party, one should vote for who THEY themselves like.

Aye, the McCain/Giuliani wing of the Republican party is the future of our party, I hope. The moderacy and skepticism of our own views is key to our ability to make decisions. I barely voted for Bush this election, but I would have been all behind McCain, Giuliani, Powell, Voinovich, etc.

(Thank God Ashcroft is leaving)

The Election of Bush is not the Apocalypse.

The Constitution will not be supended.
There will be no draft.
The divide between Western Europe and the US will grow greater, but this is natural, now that we are devoid of our common enemy, the USSR, we will drift apart.
There will be no nuclear warfare, barring someone else starting it.
No one is going to sell the US to China.
Unemployment will stay in the area around 5%-5.5%, better than Europe.
Gay marriage will not be banned on a national basis.
We will not burn Jews or any other minorities.
We will not take to wearing jackboots and riding pants.
We will not arrest people during the night and make them disappear.
No "Day After Tomorrow" situation will occur, b/c it is totally unscientific (and the idea was proposed by Art Bell, and any and everything involving him is bunk, if you don't believe me listen to his radio show, or Whitley Streavers.)
Abortion will not be banned.
Deficits will go up, but this is a natural result of having unified government (something I am opposed to)


So, Kerry supporters, don't worry. I suggest that you be sad and depressed for now, it is vital to your emotional health that you express you emotions. I truly mean this, you are involved and informed, just as I am. Please, I'd much rather see you happier in a week or so, then holding in sadness.

Indeed. BUT there is a possibility at a total loss of our... wait, YOUR way of life due to the distruction of health care, social security, and education. If the deficits get too large, which certain elements of the republican party are pushing us towards, we will lose those things because "We don't have the money..."

The constitution will be interpereted in unsatisfactory ways, because the constitution "means whatever the judges say it means" to quote one supreme court judge.

Unemployment will probably rise slightly, and availible jobs will lose benifits and salary.

But what I want to focus on is this:

There will be no nuclear warfare, barring someone else starting it.

Put bush in the cuban missile crisis and you have nuclear apocolypse. We need a CiC who actually has some comprehension of patience.

We were given the choice between a socialist priss or an overly-aggressive fratboy. Frankly, I'd rather not go the socialist route, and 51% of the country agreed with me. Well, I voted for Badnarik, but I'm glad that Kerry didn't win.

Anyway, you are showing a massive failure to understand the issues facing the country, the presidential candidates and their proposed solutions for those issues, and how the process of running the country works. I guess your private school upbringing wasn't quite worth the money.

I congratulate you for your courage. Your vote for Badnarik is a great thing. Even though he had no chance of winning your willingness to sacrifice for a message is very courageous. Better than I can say for myself.

There is no other kind! By definition.
Well, some descrive current practices of extending calls and deploying reserve/national guard units as a "back-door" draft.

I personally hate back-door drafts because they let flies in.

Aye, the McCain/Giuliani wing of the Republican party is the future of our party, I hope. The moderacy and skepticism of our own views is key to our ability to make decisions. I barely voted for Bush this election, but I would have been all behind McCain, Giuliani, Powell, Voinovich, etc.

(Thank God Ashcroft is leaving)


I would love to see Guliani run for president, that would be person I would want anyway.

We were given the choice between a socialist priss or an overly-aggressive fratboy. Frankly, I'd rather not go the socialist route, and 51% of the country agreed with me. Well, I voted for Badnarik, but I'm glad that Kerry didn't win.

Anyway, you are showing a massive failure to understand the issues facing the country, the presidential candidates and their proposed solutions for those issues, and how the process of running the country works. I guess your private school upbringing wasn't quite worth the money.


Please elaborate so that I may shoot you down. Telling me that I don't understand without explaining where you're thinking is leading you doesn't give me the option of correcting you. Thanks.

You don't know that for sure, chances are we won't but, with Bush in for his second term he could technicly do mostly anything he wants to, this is because he dosn't have to worry about pissing anyone off becasuse he's not being reelected in four years. So my main point is "you never can know for sure; until it happens"

Ever heard the term "political suicide"? If Bush tried to reinstate the draft, even the most hardcore Republicans would not be dumb enough to agree with him. Yes, Bush may be ineligible for a third term. But what about the rest of Congress? There are plenty of other politicians that would suffer guilt by party association, so a draft would never pass.

I think it'd be a good thing for the young people of this country to actually give back to it. If by some fluke there is a draft, I'll be ready.

The Election of Bush is not the Apocalypse.

The Constitution will not be supended.
There will be no draft.
The divide between Western Europe and the US will grow greater, but this is natural, now that we are devoid of our common enemy, the USSR, we will drift apart.
There will be no nuclear warfare, barring someone else starting it.
No one is going to sell the US to China.
Unemployment will stay in the area around 5%-5.5%, better than Europe.
Gay marriage will not be banned on a national basis.
We will not burn Jews or any other minorities.
We will not take to wearing jackboots and riding pants.
We will not arrest people during the night and make them disappear.
No "Day After Tomorrow" situation will occur, b/c it is totally unscientific (and the idea was proposed by Art Bell, and any and everything involving him is bunk, if you don't believe me listen to his radio show, or Whitley Streavers.)
Abortion will not be banned.
Deficits will go up, but this is a natural result of having unified government (something I am opposed to)


So, Kerry supporters, don't worry. I suggest that you be sad and depressed for now, it is vital to your emotional health that you express you emotions. I truly mean this, you are involved and informed, just as I am. Please, I'd much rather see you happier in a week or so, then holding in sadness.

Ok first off, Im not replying directly to yours. But it must be understood by all that Both Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush planned on doing what was in the best interests of America. They are both respectable people. (If I was either one, I would have called up the other before election day and said: "If you win, I will buy tickets to your inauguration." Do they even sell tickets or is it a free first come first serve? I should look at that lol.) Thats how much respect both of them deserve.

Second off, whoever started that email chain syaing Mr. Bush would initiate an involuntary draft is just as disgraceful as the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth- spreading damaging lies and slander about a given canditate.

Uh yeah. That concludes my first two cents.

Ever heard the term "political suicide"? If Bush tried to reinstate the draft, even the most hardcore Republicans would not be dumb enough to agree with him. Yes, Bush may be ineligible for a third term. But what about the rest of Congress? There are plenty of other politicians that would suffer guilt by party association, so a draft would never pass.

I think it'd be a good thing for the young people of this country to actually give back to it. If by some fluke there is a draft, I'll be ready.

While this is true "Iran has nuclear weapons" or "North Korea has nuclear weapons" may be enough justification for the republicans and conservative media to rally behind them. The bushies have used fear tactics rather admirably to control the nation.

Ok first off, Im not replying directly to yours. But it must be understood by all that Both Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush planned on doing what was in the best interests of America. They are both respectable people. (If I was either one, I would have called up the other before election day and said: "If you win, I will buy tickets to your inauguration." Do they even sell tickets or is it a free first come first serve? I should look at that lol.) Thats how much respect both of them deserve.

Second off, whoever started that email chain syaing Mr. Bush would initiate an involuntary draft is just as disgraceful as the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth- spreading damaging lies and slander about a given canditate.

Uh yeah. That concludes my first two cents.

Bravo. Bush does deserve respect... but his cabinet scares me. And not for me, but for you.

just as disgraceful as the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth- spreading damaging lies and slander about a given canditate.

So, over two-hundred Swiftboat Veterans are wrong, and the dozen who support Kerry are right? How did you come to that conclusion?

Indeed. BUT there is a possibility at a total loss of our... wait, YOUR way of life due to the distruction of health care, social security, and education. If the deficits get too large, which certain elements of the republican party are pushing us towards, we will lose those things because "We don't have the money..."

The constitution will be interpereted in unsatisfactory ways, because the constitution "means whatever the judges say it means" to quote one supreme court judge.

Unemployment will probably rise slightly, and availible jobs will lose benifits and salary.

But what I want to focus on is this:

There will be no nuclear warfare, barring someone else starting it.

Put bush in the cuban missile crisis and you have nuclear apocolypse. We need a CiC who actually has some comprehension of patience.

Unsatisfactorily to who? Yourself clearly, you see the majority of the American people voted for Bush and his ideals. And they think that the justices he'd appoint would be satisfactory to him. Just a though.

Social Security is a loss no matter what. It cannot sustain itself until college freshmen like me get old, we need reforms that neither candidate would propose because they are too radical fo the body-politic (retirement age raising, benefit decreases, little bit more soc. tax). I don't involve myself with anything remotely government run as far as healthcare is concerened, I get my Unis plan. And even if I didn't have that, I wouldn't get gov. help.

With the current trend unemployment will probably go down a little little bit every quarter. If the recovery keeps on it's slow and steady track we should begin to see increases in wages and benefits.

Might I clarify. No nation is going to put nukes on Cuba. We will only use nukes if someone shoots one at us first. So, just say the NKs put a nuke on a launch pad, we might put a precision guided bomb on it, but no nuke strikes. Or if the NK's somehow shot a rocket at the US, our interceptors on Guam and in Alaska are designed for just such a scenario. Massive retaliation from the US is the rule, not massive nuclear pre-emption.

Ever heard the term "political suicide"? If Bush tried to reinstate the draft, even the most hardcore Republicans would not be dumb enough to agree with him. Yes, Bush may be ineligible for a third term. But what about the rest of Congress? There are plenty of other politicians that would suffer guilt by party association, so a draft would never pass.

I think it'd be a good thing for the young people of this country to actually give back to it. If by some fluke there is a draft, I'll be ready.


Not to attack you or anything, but I'd have to say that I do plan to give back to this country, it's called college, and not for some silly degree in fine arts or something to that effect but in engineering, this should deffinetly be considered as "giving back", no?

We were given the choice between a socialist priss or an overly-aggressive fratboy. Frankly, I'd rather not go the socialist route, and 51% of the country agreed with me. Well, I voted for Badnarik, but I'm glad that Kerry didn't win.

Anyway, you are showing a massive failure to understand the issues facing the country, the presidential candidates and their proposed solutions for those issues, and how the process of running the country works. I guess your private school upbringing wasn't quite worth the money.

Can you please explain who the socialist was?

I would love to see Guliani run for president, that would be person I would want anyway.
Guliani seems a solid choice. Some rumors of the 2008 election of "Ahnold" vs. Hilary are floating around my community. Although Arnold is doing a very good job in California, I think the constitution should continue to prohibit foreigners. No offense. Its just they might not have the best interests of America at hand, like Mr. Bush or Mr. Kerry.

We were given the choice between a socialist priss or an overly-aggressive fratboy. Frankly, I'd rather not go the socialist route, and 51% of the country agreed with me. Well, I voted for Badnarik, but I'm glad that Kerry didn't win.

Anyway, you are showing a massive failure to understand the issues facing the country, the presidential candidates and their proposed solutions for those issues, and how the process of running the country works. I guess your private school upbringing wasn't quite worth the money.

Can you please explain who the socialist was and what is wrong with a little socialism?

I'm personally a little upset that we have to deal with the monkey being president for another four years, but I'm not going to stew on the issue. There are many reasons why Bush is bad for the nation, but if it gets bad enough, and I'm afraid it just might, we can always impeach his illiterate ass. Whatever happens, DO NOT BELIEVE THE MONKEY'S LIES! Take nothing he says for granted. We need to be careful, not angry.

Also, just as an aside, I have read several things posted by Chess Squares recently, and I love the way he consistantly proves himself (or herself, I neither know, nor care which) to be a complete and total fool.

While this is true "Iran has nuclear weapons" or "North Korea has nuclear weapons" may be enough justification for the republicans and conservative media to rally behind them. The bushies have used fear tactics rather admirably to control the nation.

Well, besides the fact that N.K. does have nuclear weapons, and Iran is working on them, yes, I guess that is a possibility. I dont think Bush would be able to generate enough approval to start another war based on those facts, though. And as for fear tactics, Im not afraid, are you?

I'm personally a little upset that we have to deal with the monkey being president for another four years, but I'm not going to stew on the issue. There are many reasons why Bush is bad for the nation, but if it gets bad enough, and I'm afraid it just might, we can always impeach his illiterate ass. Whatever happens, DO NOT BELIEVE THE MONKEY'S LIES! Take nothing he says for granted. We need to be careful, not angry.

Also, just as an aside, I have read several things posted by Chess Squares recently, and I love the way he consistantly proves himself (or herself, I neither know, nor care which) to be a complete and total fool.

OK, first off quit being stupid, now then, you can't just impeach a president becasuse you feel like it, don't get me wrong I hate bush, but you just can't do that.

I'm personally a little upset that we have to deal with the monkey being president for another four years, but I'm not going to stew on the issue. There are many reasons why Bush is bad for the nation, but if it gets bad enough, and I'm afraid it just might, we can always impeach his illiterate ass. Whatever happens, DO NOT BELIEVE THE MONKEY'S LIES! Take nothing he says for granted. We need to be careful, not angry.

Also, just as an aside, I have read several things posted by Chess Squares recently, and I love the way he consistantly proves himself (or herself, I neither know, nor care which) to be a complete and total fool.
Your very first post doesn't make too good a rep for you. No evidence and all opinions.
... a complete and total fool.
Cant say much better for yourself in this respect.

Unsatisfactorily to who? Yourself clearly, you see the majority of the American people voted for Bush and his ideals. And they think that the justices he'd appoint would be satisfactory to him. Just a though.

Social Security is a loss no matter what. It cannot sustain itself until college freshmen like me get old, we need reforms that neither candidate would propose because they are too radical fo the body-politic (retirement age raising, benefit decreases, little bit more soc. tax). I don't involve myself with anything remotely government run as far as healthcare is concerened, I get my Unis plan. And even if I didn't have that, I wouldn't get gov. help.

With the current trend unemployment will probably go down a little little bit every quarter. If the recovery keeps on it's slow and steady track we should begin to see increases in wages and benefits.

Might I clarify. No nation is going to put nukes on Cuba. We will only use nukes if someone shoots one at us first. So, just say the NKs put a nuke on a launch pad, we might put a precision guided bomb on it, but no nuke strikes. Or if the NK's somehow shot a rocket at the US, our interceptors on Guam and in Alaska are designed for just such a scenario. Massive retaliation from the US is the rule, not massive nuclear pre-emption.

Unsatisfactory for people who've made an attempt to understand the vision the founding fathers had for this nation. Limited government. I'm saying that invading Iran is likely, because it made halliburton rich (I made quite a bit off halliburton stock) and will probably do so again. They don't really care if the government is bankrupt to be honest. They never will be, and frankly niether will I. I'm asking you through the missile crisis example to see how president bush is NOT a good war-time president. Put him in any dangerous situation, and his over-agressive behavior is dangerous. Is american blood NOT soaking foreign soil?

I suggest everyone watch the fog of war. McNamara is a genius.


Oh, and the majority of america didn't vote for bush. About 36% of them did, seeing as how there wasn't a 100% voter turn out.


TEMPORARY EDIT:
I have to run and eat. I'll be back in a bit to continue this. Many thanks to the conservatives that were willing to engage in open discussion without simply saying "OMG U R s0 St00pid roflmao!!!!1123234"

OK, first off quit being stupid, now then, you can't just impeach a president becasuse you feel like it, don't get me wrong I hate bush, but you just can't do that.
Youre right. Both left and right come together for an intelligent, peaceful conversation and then.............

Youre right. Both left and right come together for an intelligent, peaceful conversation and then.............

Unfortunetly that'll never happen, to many political extremists trying to impose their will upon people.

Unsatisfactory for people who've made an attempt to understand the vision the founding fathers had for this nation.
Thats an opinion. Theres many different records of what happened two-hundred years ago.

Oh, and the majority of america didn't vote for bush. About 36% of them did, seeing as how there wasn't a 100% voter turn out.

Well, I suppose that meant only about 35% voted for Mr. Kerry. The majority of those who care did vote for Mr. Bush.

Not to attack you or anything, but I'd have to say that I do plan to give back to this country, it's called college, and not for some silly degree in fine arts or something to that effect but in engineering, this should deffinetly be considered as "giving back", no?

Dont get me wrong, I dont think that every young person needs to join the military to give back to the country. Id say you are doing a fine job on the track youre on. But so many young people today either quit school, or major in something that will never provide them with a decent job. And then they complain about America, and refuse to vote. Those people, unfortunately are the least likely to go fight for their country, but the ones for which it would do the best.

Unfortunetly that'll never happen, to many political extremists trying to impose their will upon people.
Well it could, if both sides were mature. (Ha Ha- Mature Internet-Surfing Americans!) But then Zoidburg, dripping with the average open-mindedness of Michael Moore and/or Sean Hannity (Although myself biased, I'm trying to be fair) comes in and throws us all off with his groundless talk.

Many thanks to the conservatives that were willing to engage in open discussion without simply saying "OMG U R s0 St00pid roflmao!!!!1123234"
Same goes to all who, as I said earlier, engage in mature political discussion.

part of voter turnout is placed in the way our democratic process works, it was originally supposed to inhibit who voted and then that was thrown out to provide equal rights opportunity. but if it was placed on purely numerical aggregate more people would vote and noone would have to fill out absentee forms and such

The Election of Bush is not the Apocalypse.

There will be no nuclear warfare, barring someone else starting it.


*Looks at the shadows that are still burned into buildings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki*

You're kidding me, right? I mean, I am speaking from the point of view of a non- US-ian but you have to admit, guys, that the US is the only country to actually USE nukes as an act of aggression against another country. In the bush-designated era of "pre-emptive self defence" (which is just the bully's justification in my eyes) the fact that the one country that has actually used these things and is also the one pointing the finger at others for not complying with their viewpoint is worrying.

Last time I discussed this with US-ians I was informed that they (the people I was discussing it with) had never even heard of Hiroshima Day, which is a day of World mourning for those acts perpetrated by the US. If this is true - that you DON'T participate in this day - then it just goes that little bit further to demonstrate the general irresponsibility with which the US has in the past used/abused its admittedly huge capacity for destruction.

PLEASE don't bore me with arguments like "That was ages ago" or "It was war" or "They would've done it too" or any other self-justifications, the fact remains that many, MANY people outside the US are seeing it more as the international bully than the leader of the free world.

remember also that the way in which we elect a president is not who they really are, but who they portray themselves to be. a complete moron can make it seem like they are an average citizen and therefore pull the heartstrings of everyday hardworking Joe, but at the same time being a billionare

remember also that the way in which we elect a president is not who they really are, but who they portray themselves to be. a complete moron can make it seem like they are an average citizen and therefore pull the heartstrings of everyday hardworking Joe, but at the same time being a billionare
I dont mean to be offesnive, but I just cannot understand what you are saying.

PLEASE don't bore me with arguments like "That was ages ago" or "It was war" or "They would've done it too" or any other self-justifications
Well thats asking us not to respond. You set up youre whole post around that fact.

The use of nuclear weapons in the finale of World War II was a stroke of genious on America's part. The alternative was invasion. If we hadn't, as many lives on Japan's part would have been lost, if not more, and just as many Americans would have died too. The use of nukes was the most peaceful way to end the war with complete American victory.

This thread is dead. I be somewhere else now.

okay, what i mean is that when we elect a president the most people see of that person is on the news or in the papers. Then the view that we see in our minds about that person becomes imbedded with the vision we just saw of him. Where this gains relavence is the "Mission Accomplished" pr scam. We know that it was just a pr op that he was engaged in with the military but when we see our pres rubbing elbows with soldiers that fight for our freedom (liberally used) when make a connection to that man, therefore when we envision a president that sweats too much (dukakis) looks bad in inopportune times (most of them one time or another, but the immediate response was the candidate who lost because of his crazy fist pump and overzealous "whooooo!") we could never elect another president in a wheelchair (who is one of the best ever)

Well thats asking us not to respond. You set up youre whole post around that fact.

The use of nuclear weapons in the finale of World War II was a stroke of genious on America's part. The alternative was invasion. If we hadn't, as many lives on Japan's part would have been lost, if not more, and just as many Americans would have died too. The use of nukes was the most peaceful way to end the war with complete American victory.


No, I am not asking anyone "not to repond" I said don't use trite, inaccurate slogans, which you promptly did.

The use of nuclear weapons caused FEWER deaths in Japan? :headbang: Do some research before you make ludicrous statements like that. Have you checked the numbers that have died as a result of radiation sickness, birth defects directly attributable to the bombs, cancers, etc? And that's just the surface matters. Your answer shows that you have NO understanding of the ramifications of your country's actions or the effects of nuclear fallout.

Japan was retreating, the war in the Pacific was pretty much won and the nuclear bombs were dropped to speed things up and as a "live" test.

Let's talk about this:

First off, the National debt stands at 7.5 trillion dollars. Divide that by the population of the United States, and you have each person owing 25,000 dollars a piece. The projected budget for the next 5 years, released by the federal government, no spin here, shows it to go to 10.5 trillion by 2009. If you honestly think this trend can continue without repurcussion, you are sadly mistaken. "This economy is too strong to collapse" is the most ignorant retort. No economy is immune from collapse. It WILL fall. Why shouldn't it? What's preventing it? Not one single economy ever created in the world has lasted forever.

Next, I don't know about your states, but because of Bush's tax cuts, federal funding was cut from our state funding. The result of which was an immediate cut to all higher-level education. All state institutions, on average, rose 30% over 3 years in Ohio. At that rate, in 20 years, kids will be paying 30,000 a year to go to a public school, 100,000 for private and out-of-state. Don't even think that a $20 an hour job is going to pay for that. We're talking about serious debt accumulation, higher than already. And I hope you enjoy your tax cuts....the government is going to get your money, one way or the other. It's a false front, a false security have you.

Speaking of false fronts. All economies that have fallen recently have fallen in the same manner. Corporate policies lax in countries like Indonesia and Argentina have divided the rich and poor. It's called greed. Just because you have a strong corporation, doesn't mean they will treat their employees with respect. A divided population led to a lagging economy. The governments of both privatized their assets, and lowered interest rates to spark growth (and to save their ass in the case of economic downfall, by selling off their assets, they would not be responsible for expenditures). Any of this sound familiar? The result of which led to a substantial growth and immediate collapse of an already wavering system.

The sad part.....it's not the rich that are going to suffer. It's the poor. The rich have their security in hand. They know what is coming and they prepared for it. They knew what was coming in Argentina, and now they're 4X as rich and the poor are 4X as poor. The same thing is headed for the US. It's going to happen. When? I don't know. But it WILL happen. You better face reality.

And now the poor of the United States have put their faith in the Republican party. The same party that stands behind corporate interests and trust corporations to do the best for their people. Sheer ignorance. Honestly, if you could fire a guy you never met, make another do twice the work, and you get $40K a year more, you'd do it...wouldn't you? I would.

The warning signs are all there. The classes are dividing, and inflation is about to skyrocket. Oil prices are reaching 30% more a barrel than what they were 4 years ago. Corporations will raise their prices. The rich will get richer, the poor poorer.

I voted Kerry, but I don't regret the outcome. You see, I'm leaving this country. I've already married international and I'm getting the hell out. But as an afterthought, I realize, Bush has made his bed, now he should have to sleep in it. Why should the democrats clean up the mess that Republicans have made for 26 of the last 34 years.

The way I see it, America deserves this economic fall-out if they're too ignorant to fore-see it. That debt is far too deep for a shaky economy to support. Don't even say, "The debt doesn't matter because it's money we owe ourselves". That's sheer ignorance. Just ask all other countries of economic collapse.

In conclusion, we're set for either the greatest acceleration of American industry and growth we've ever seen, or the biggest I-told-you-so of the last 74 years. Ironic it's the exact same I-told-you-so.....Republicans in office, restricting freedoms, and a "guaranteed stable" economy.

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how unbelievably ridiculous some liberals can be. For instance, Skye has actually posed the thought that Bush will reinstate the draft. Now, I find it interesting that the only group that has, thus far, brought the idea of a draft forward is the Democratic party. In fact, Kerry and the Democratic Congressional minority proposed reinstating the draft, anfd then said that it was only a political move designed to hurt Bush's support. Well, so much for being interested in the common man. Apparently Kerry and his pals couldn't care less if unwilling soldiers are forced to die in Iraq, as long as it gets them elected. Bush, on the other hand, has only sent soldiers who willingly joined the military, and they obviously support him, seeing as how the last poll showed that 3/4ths of the military favored Bush.

However, lets go on to look deeper into the portrait that Skye has painted of himself. For instance, he claims to be a wealthy, well-connected individual who has family ties to powerful figures. Of course, that doesn't necessarily make him a Republican, and his claim that he is a "registered Republican" doesn't seem to fit at all with the rest of his persona. In my opinion, he is little more than a stereotypical liberal pretending to be something he's not. Not to mention that, in case you didn't notice, Kerry and Bush had quite a bit in common. I'm guessing we know now who the Illuminati wanted to win. In fact, if Skye really is a member of a wealthy Republican family, with connections that could get him a governorship, and old enough to vote, why then I'd say he is probably in college, and most likely a member of one of those shady organizations we keep hearing about but never learn about. However, I doubt very seriously he is what he says he is, and that is that.

Now, as for the economic situation, if you were truly as knowledgeable as you pretend to be, you would know several things.

- The recession we have started in 2000, and was inherited by Bush from Clinton. The recession is never the fault of the president in office when it happens. Look back to find the cause.
- The rewarding of companies who outsourced is a practice that began during the Clinton administration.
-The economy took a hard hit in the 9/11 attacks because the World Trade Center was destroyed.
-It was further destabilized when the various economic scandals began to surface (i.e. Enron), among companies that flourished during Clinton's administration, leading us to believe that our economic prosperity then was merely a sham.
-The unemployment rate is well under 6%, at about 5.4%, which is excellent for a nation of our size. France, a Socialist nation, has an unemployment rate of a little over 9%. Interesting, Capitalism creates more jobs than Socialism...


In other words, our economy is fine, and I can't imagine what, precisely, people are complaining about.

Listen carefully.

There will be no draft.


If there is will you allow me to shoot you in the head? Becuase there will be and I promise you I will rub it in your face. I'll smear shit on your grave with capital letters. I will print "WRONG." Time will show that you are wrong, and I'll just be laughing when you are shot in between the eyes. Fighting for "freedom"

First off, the National debt stands at 7.5 trillion dollars. Divide that by the population of the United States, and you have each person owing 25,000 dollars a piece. The projected budget for the next 5 years, released by the federal government, no spin here, shows it to go to 10.5 trillion by 2009. If you honestly think this trend can continue without repurcussion, you are sadly mistaken. "This economy is too strong to collapse" is the most ignorant retort. No economy is immune from collapse. It WILL fall. Why shouldn't it? What's preventing it? Not one single economy ever created in the world has lasted forever.

You are aware, of course, that Kerry's plans called for increased spending w/o raising taxes? In other words, economic analysts predicted he would drive the debt up over 400 billion on top of Bush's spending. Therefore, unless you want higher taxes or higher debt, Bush would be the smart choice.

If there is will you allow me to shoot you in the head? Becuase there will be and I promise you I will rub it in your face. I'll smear shit on your grave with capital letters. I will print "WRONG." Time will show that you are wrong, and I'll just be laughing when you are shot in between the eyes. Fighting for "freedom"
There would have been a draft if you had elected Kerry. Thank your lucky stars you failed. After all, he and the Democrats were the only ones to attempt to reinstate that draft.

You are aware, of course, that Kerry's plans called for increased spending w/o raising taxes? In other words, economic analysts predicted he would drive the debt up over 400 billion on top of Bush's spending. Therefore, unless you want higher taxes or higher debt, Bush would be the smart choice.

I also realize your reply was a direct quote from Bush's mouth, or his web-page, neither of which to be trusted.

I don't doubt Kerry's programs might, on paper, seem more expensive then Bush's. But I'm sure Kerry, who preached fiscal responsibility with extreme reverence (had you check his web page as well), would have made adjustments to his programs to correct that.