NationStates Jolt Archive

...another four years of George Bush. How he was persuaded to make that video and interfere in the election, only the White House knows. Of course his family demonstrated their huge influence and close links with the George Bush presidency when they were evacuated from the States in the immediate wake of 9/11. God help the Palestinians, the Iranians, the Syrians - the only thing preventing invasion by the US is the lack of US Armed Forces available, because they're going to be bogged down in Iraq for the next 10 years or so.
The rest of the world is very afraid and sad that America is about to become as feared and hated and reviled as has never happened before in her history.

Lack of US armed forces available?

You know what that means, THE DRAFT!
Thank God, I'm not American (yet, Australian close enough?)

...another four years of George Bush.....God help the Palestinians, the Iranians, the Syrians......Lebanese,Kuwaitis, Egypcians, Saudis, NorthKorean, South Koreans, Americans...etc

Don't forget the Cubans!

Don't forget the Cubans!...Dios los Proteja...

Lack of US armed forces available?

You know what that means, THE DRAFT!
Thank God, I'm not American (yet, Australian close enough?)

Lol why (now I am making an assumption with the spamqueen thing …) that you are female … wouldn’t matter currently females are not required to register for the draft so …

Bah the extremists won a battle, but the struggle will not stop here. Fight for your rights.

Lol why (now I am making an assumption with the spamqueen thing …) that you are female ……I dont think she is a female

Lack of US armed forces available?

You know what that means, THE DRAFT!
Thank God, I'm not American (yet, Australian close enough?)
There will be no draft. period.

1. Who influenced Bin Laden to publish this video?
2. The Saudi's were not flown out of the country immediately. They were questioned by the FBI, then released by Richard Clarke, not Bush, after all the airlines were allowed to fly again.

I believe you're confusing the Bushs' supposed dealings with the Saudis. Richard Clarke did indeed OK OBL's family to return home. The US has been aware of OBL's sentiments for years and you can be sure they were confident that his family was not connected with his movement. He was basically disowned by the family years ago for his extremist views and violent tendancies.

As for the other countries mentioned, Iran is getting to the point where the UN is going to have to address the issue, though its people are getting restless for democracy. They may take the matters into their own hands. N Korea is still as involved as they ever get in multi-lateral discussions, but if they push it too far, again the UN will have to get involved. If Arafat is out of the picture and a more moderate leader were to step in, there might be some real steps to at least a truce with Israel. The suicide bombers would have to be routed out and stopped which would mean Israel could stop lashing out in retaliation. They would stand a chance of coming to an agreement then. Syria...known to be a funding and training source for terrorists. They are going to have to be dealt with sooner or later. Maybe some embargos that are enforced?

Iraq was unique in that (for the kazillionth time) intelligence from multiple sources said that Saddam was an immediate threat to US security. He didn't have "WMDs", but what do you call over 1,000,000 tons of explosives? That much stuff could cause some pretty massive destruction. What do you think he was planning on doing with it?

Yea, Bin Laden is probably laughing is ass off right now.. more Bush, more bigoted, unilateral, agressive policies by the US, that will make the job of Alqaeda much more simple, in the philosofical way (they now have more reasons to attack the US, and who would say, now they have real reasons), and in the practical way (More recruits, driven by a loathing of the US, more mobility inside Islamic/Arab countries, whose populations don't like the US now, and with bush, will probably like the US even less).

About other countries.. don't worry. Neither Iran or Korea will provoke the US, and if the US chooses to persue an agressive policy against foreign countries, they won't have the support of a single country in the world (perhaps one goverment or two, but the populations of those goverments always against such support, such as the case of Italy, were Silvio Berlusconi is a staunch supporter of bush, but 70% of Italians are against the war), they won't have the resources (since Bush won't re-instate a draft.. or so he says :P ), since their military is over stretched in Iraq, and they don't even have the money. If that deficit grows any bigger, the Fed will raise interest rates, and worldwide lenders to the US will back away, crunching the US finances.

And with all this, there aren't enought resources, time and attention to devote to Alqaeda, that will hapilly continue to gather resources and freak suicide bombers, that have sooo many people to kill in iraq. Its paradise for the fanatics, out there. Poor Americans lol.

Iraq was unique in that (for the kazillionth time) intelligence from multiple sources said that Saddam was an immediate threat to US security. He didn't have "WMDs", but what do you call over 1,000,000 tons of explosives? That much stuff could cause some pretty massive destruction. What do you think he was planning on doing with it?


Perhaps defend is sovereing country from Invasion? That is a right that every country has.. right? I mean, its not like they didnt had the reasons to try to defend themselves.. in the end, it were the US that were worse than Iraq. Thinking of it, Saddam was more honest that Bush O.o He said he didnt got WMD, and that he wouldnt leave his country.. which was true. Funny, isnt it?

There will be no draft. period.
Yes there will be. period. Bush himself said, "We will not have an all volunteer army." How can Bush continue a GLOBAL war on terror without a draft?

Yea, Bin Laden is probably laughing is ass off right now..Its paradise for the fanatics, out there. Poor Americans lol.

One thing makes your view questionable. OBL threatened to attack any states that voted for Bush. Bush has taken out 75% of his heirachy and instead of being a cohesive group it is now a bunch of franchised groups. By electing Bush the US was basically giving OBL and his merry men the finger.
To paraphrase the president, if OBL and others of his ilk were not running around killing people who don't agree with them, do you think they would be peaceful productive people?

I believe you're confusing the Bushs' supposed dealings with the Saudis. Richard Clarke did indeed OK OBL's family to return home. The US has been aware of OBL's sentiments for years and you can be sure they were confident that his family was not connected with his movement. He was basically disowned by the family years ago for his extremist views and violent tendancies.

As for the other countries mentioned, Iran is getting to the point where the UN is going to have to address the issue, though its people are getting restless for democracy. They may take the matters into their own hands. N Korea is still as involved as they ever get in multi-lateral discussions, but if they push it too far, again the UN will have to get involved. If Arafat is out of the picture and a more moderate leader were to step in, there might be some real steps to at least a truce with Israel. The suicide bombers would have to be routed out and stopped which would mean Israel could stop lashing out in retaliation. They would stand a chance of coming to an agreement then. Syria...known to be a funding and training source for terrorists. They are going to have to be dealt with sooner or later. Maybe some embargos that are enforced?

Iraq was unique in that (for the kazillionth time) intelligence from multiple sources said that Saddam was an immediate threat to US security. He didn't have "WMDs", but what do you call over 1,000,000 tons of explosives? That much stuff could cause some pretty massive destruction. What do you think he was planning on doing with it?

Hook, Line & Sinker, eh? You start with a conclusion and work backwards to a rationale. He was a scumbucket. At times he was "Our Scumbucket". But in truth, the world has no shortage of scumbuckets running countries. As they go, he was pretty paultry prey.

I'll throw you a bone on the 1,000,000 tons of explosives! But seriously, what was he going to do? Throw it at us barehanded? Iraq had a catastrophic ten year long war against Iran that cost somewhere near 1,000,000 lives let alone the maimed and injured. The US {Reagan & Rumsfeld} helped Hussein wage that war and is widely credited with putting biological & chemical weapons in Hussein's hands. All this because the Ayatollah Khomeini was the great boogie man of the middle east for hating the US & their puppet, Mohammed Reza Shah Pahlavi (aka The Shah of Iran) running their country and corrupting their culture for oil & petrodollars. (Look up the Shah. Interesting reading.)

Atomic arsenal aside, what tonnage do you think the USA has stockpiled? Why do we need it? Are Canada & Mexico in cahoots to attack us in our sleep? Why don't we have to justify it but we expect others to do so? Have we proven to be a restrained keeper of the flame or just the biggest bully on the block? To save time and some of the insipid responses, I am not merely referring to the current Iraqi war, but all the policies that have led up to it as America has built it's empire in the last 50 or so years.

One thing makes your view questionable. OBL threatened to attack any states that voted for Bush. Bush has taken out 75% of his heirachy and instead of being a cohesive group it is now a bunch of franchised groups. By electing Bush the US was basically giving OBL and his merry men the finger.
To paraphrase the president, if OBL and others of his ilk were not running around killing people who don't agree with them, do you think they would be peaceful productive people?
I never heard about the attacking bush states. could you link to a transcript? And even if that is true, I don't care because I live in one of the few SANE states that voted based on intelligence and not out of irrational fear. Sorry to be so bitter, but I'm just angry right now. :mad:

One thing makes your view questionable. OBL threatened to attack any states that voted for Bush. Bush has taken out 75% of his heirachy and instead of being a cohesive group it is now a bunch of franchised groups. By electing Bush the US was basically giving OBL and his merry men the finger.
To paraphrase the president, if OBL and others of his ilk were not running around killing people who don't agree with them, do you think they would be peaceful productive people?


Alqaeda is a contact list. It as ALWAYS been a bunch of franchised groups, duhhhhh! And you could kill bin laden himself, one like him would grow right next to him like a marshmallow. Who do you think you are fighting? Arab civilization is 2000 years old, these men, though fanatics, truly believe in what they do, they are inteligent and resourcefull, and they won't stop by being dead (well, others will carry on their job lol)

By electing bush, you play is game for the reasons i stated above: You give bin laden even more arguments to continue is homicidal quests. Its life.

And well, if Bush wasnt going around bombing Iraquis, would he be a peaceful competent president?

I never heard about the attacking bush states. could you link to a transcript? And even if that is true, I don't care because I live in one of the few SANE states that voted based on intelligence and not out of irrational fear. Sorry to be so bitter, but I'm just angry right now. :mad:

I find it fascinating that leftists seem to have no sense of inconguency. Some of you were raising hell on another thread about how Bush was returned to office because people voted for him because of religous and values-based reasons. Now here you all are, raising hell because he somehow "scared" them all into it. Which is it?

I find it fascinating that leftists seem to have no sense of inconguency. Some of you were raising hell on another thread about how Bush was returned to office because people voted for him because of religous and values-based reasons. Now here you all are, raising hell because he somehow "scared" them all into it. Which is it?
Yeah! Because it was tottaly me saying that both times! I what makes you think that Bush didn't use both tactics?

...another four years of George Bush. How he was persuaded to make that video and interfere in the election, only the White House knows. Of course his family demonstrated their huge influence and close links with the George Bush presidency when they were evacuated from the States in the immediate wake of 9/11. God help the Palestinians, the Iranians, the Syrians - the only thing preventing invasion by the US is the lack of US Armed Forces available, because they're going to be bogged down in Iraq for the next 10 years or so.
The rest of the world is very afraid and sad that America is about to become as feared and hated and reviled as has never happened before in her history.

God help the terrorists, for they are your people, and you must push for your people, even if they are insane.

..or so goes the mantra I hear in these forums.

I find it fascinating that leftists seem to have no sense of inconguency. Some of you were raising hell on another thread about how Bush was returned to office because people voted for him because of religous and values-based reasons. Now here you all are, raising hell because he somehow "scared" them all into it. Which is it?
I find it revealing that some people seek one casual point to the exclusion of all other elements in play. Without any irony, the answer is both and then some. Your question begs a singular, simplistic answer when it is more appropriate to examine all the various stratagems employed. Your quest is like asking which pellet from the shotgun did the deed to the exclusion of all others.

BTW - Not a lefty or a righty

God help the terrorists, for they are your people, and you must push for your people, even if they are insane.

..or so goes the mantra I hear in these forums.
I don't think you are listening without interference from your inner dialogue. But to say that the US government has not contributed to the factors that have helped create terrorists is pretty immature. To get at the truth of any matter one must consider all elements at play. Are al Qaeda extremeists that use deplorable tactics? Absolutely. But be mindful to include those same acts when committed by your team. A foul is a foul.

I never heard about the attacking bush states. could you link to a transcript? And even if that is true, I don't care because I live in one of the few SANE states that voted based on intelligence and not out of irrational fear. Sorry to be so bitter, but I'm just angry right now. :mad:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/bin.laden.transcript/

Here's the NY Post analysis.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/33124.htm

It's not a matter of fear vs intelligence. We are fearful, we have a reason to be, but that doesn't mean we should tuck tail. The only intelligent thing for us to do is to keep rebuffing those that would harm us. National security wasn't the only issue that got Bush elected. Moral issues, the economy (note today's market reports), long range plans addressing retirement, health care, education, guest workers...they all figured in. Bush increased his support by 2% among blacks and 10% among Hispanics. I've forgotten the increase of support among women. He laid down workable plans on what he would like to accomplish and the people felt his ideas were better than Kerry's. Don't be angry. Just start working on helping elect your candidate in 2008. :D

A kidney transplant!?

A kidney transplant!?

Hehehe. :)

Bin Laden? Yeah, he's overjoyed that he has someone he understands and relates to in office--A true religious fanatic.

Bin Laden? Yeah, he's overjoyed that he has someone he understands and relates to in office--A true religious fanatic.

Yep. Christians vs. Muslims. Just like the good old days. :)

One thing makes your view questionable. OBL threatened to attack any states that voted for Bush. Bush has taken out 75% of his heirachy and instead of being a cohesive group it is now a bunch of franchised groups. By electing Bush the US was basically giving OBL and his merry men the finger.
Osama made that tape to influence the US election. Now depsite every effort by a the most powerful entity on the face of the earth (the US) this guy is still out there, this suggests he (and or his advisors/supporters) is not entirely stupid, but is in all liklihood rather cunning. Would a cunning person expect that threatening Americans would result in them being too scared to vote for Bush? No.

Osama wanted Bush back and he is cunning enough to understand that threatening retaliations if Bush is re-elected is not likely to stop people from voting for Bush, nor to have no effect. When a hated enemy threatens America, and makes his wishes for the future clear, do you think Americans bow to his wishes or try to see that they are never achieved?. I know what Osama thinks. I'm surprised at Americans, telling a defiant enemy not to do what you want them to do is the oldest trick in the book, one I thought the average American would be far too sophisticated to fall for.... :rolleyes:

God help the Palestinians, the Iranians, the Syrians -
Have a little faith in the Iraqi "mujaheedin" fighters. Do you think they will give up just because Bush got re-elected? Why do you think the Iranians are brazenly building nuclear arms? Why is Kim jong ill so cockily building up his nuclear program? Why do you think nobody even seriously pushed to send troops to help out the Sudanese? Our military is caught in a mess with no end and with madmen at the helm I don't think we will be out for a long time. As for the Palestinians, God help them they are truely screwed. With Bush in power in the US for a least four more years and Sharon still has like 2 or 3 years left before he has to have another elections I think they are in some Deeeeep shite. I hope civil war breaks out in Israel and all the fascist settlers revolt against the government over the Gaza withdrawl and get killed by the army. Otherwise there will never be a palestinian state.

Here's a fun fact: The last Israeli Prime Minister to be assassinated was killed by a radical Israeli.

Yes there will be. period. Bush himself said, "We will not have an all volunteer army." How can Bush continue a GLOBAL war on terror without a draft?
He mispoke and corrected himself right after he said that. And you do realize that John Kerry was calling for a dramatic increase in troop numbers with no explanation of where they would come from. If there is a draft (no way in hell it will happen, but I am humoring the conspiracy theorists) then it would have happened under John Kerry also. It's funny how people blame things on the wrong factors...