NationStates Jolt Archive

Wow, this election is something, all the intelectuals in the world against bush, serious filmmakers and musicians, nobel winning scientists, plus every pacifist and leftist in the world.
Everyone doing their best to give the "everyone but bush" message, but still the "jesus told you to vote for war" has won. Incredible.

Incredible indeed. There's not much more to say... we just need to concentrate on having a stronger presence next time around.

Wow, this election is something, all the intelectuals in the world against bush, serious filmmakers and musicians, nobel winning scientists, plus every pacifist and leftist in the world.
Everyone doing their best to give the "everyone but bush" message, but still the "jesus told you to vote for war" has won. Incredible.
All the "intelectuals" like yourself?

All the "intelectuals" like yourself?

No, I´m talking about famous people, like "professional intelectuals" like filmmakers, musicians and scientists.

Wow, this election is something, all the intelectuals in the world against bush, serious filmmakers and musicians, nobel winning scientists, plus every pacifist and leftist in the world.
Everyone doing their best to give the "everyone but bush" message, but still the "jesus told you to vote for war" has won. Incredible. :rolleyes: Pathetic.

...Like the world just shat in my mouth.

100million-odd people have voted to fuck the rest of the world. And they're winning.


Cheers, dicks.

Wow. I actually refrained from saying anything about the 'intelectuals' bit. I usually end up getting accused of being a spelling nazi and a pedant. Well, not in those words, or maybe in those words, only not spelled correctly....;)

No, I´m talking about famous people, like "professional intelectuals" like filmmakers, musicians and scientists.
Artists are not known for being any more intelligent than anyone else. I wish you'd stop stereotyping, it's the hypocrisy and bullshit like this that comes from the left which pissed off Americans enough to elect Bush again.

100million-odd people have voted to fuck the rest of the world. And they're winning.


Cheers, dicks.
I wasn't aware Kerry had 100 million votes. Maybe in the recount. Or the rerecount.

I'd say the more intelligent people, the ones who can look further than the end of their nose, maybe even as far as 4 years from now, are planning their political asylum cases in Canada.

I wasn't aware Kerry had 100 million votes. Maybe in the recount. Or the rerecount.

http://www.wackyweaselworld.com/flameINC/images/TS49.jpg

..Like the world just shat in my mouth.
Enjoy the taste? Cuz it's going to be there for four more years.

http://www.wackyweaselworld.com/flameINC/images/TS49.jpg
Spammer.

Enjoy the taste? Cuz it's going to be there for four more years.

You can't say that yet. There's still a chance that reason will prevail, and that the intelligent people of the US won't feel as if they've been raped with a sharp stick.

I hate Bush.

Enjoy the taste? Cuz it's going to be there for four more years.

Yes, and I'm oh so excited about it.

Unless of course I DO get into the study abroad program like I'm trying to push.

Spammer.

Proof?

Proof?
A picture irrelevant to the topic at hand is generally considered spamming.

hah, I based my 100mil on everyone actually turning out to vote. Its what.. 50-odd million votes for bush?

hah, I based my 100mil on everyone actually turning out to vote. Its what.. 50-odd million votes for bush?
Yeah, it's like 54/50 right now.

A picture irrelevant to the topic at hand is generally considered spamming.

Seems to me the picture was a response to the quoted comment. A rebuttal?

I wasn't aware Kerry had 100 million votes. Maybe in the recount. Or the rerecount.

100 million votes would be almost all the votes so far.

A picture irrelevant to the topic at hand is generally considered spamming.

Actually, it was in response to your post, thus making it, to some semblance, relevant.

Artists are not known for being any more intelligent than anyone else. I wish you'd stop stereotyping, it's the hypocrisy and bullshit like this that comes from the left which pissed off Americans enough to elect Bush again.

But they do have more knowledge about politics and they read more and this kind of stuff, you can´t deny that.

100 mill. votes? in total?
How many americans could have actually voted?

I am just a poor european that doesn't know much... sorry.

Actually, it was in response to your post, thus making it, to some semblance, relevant.
asdgoisadi@(!~~``

I don't profess any belief for or against things outside my perception, but I certainly hope there's an afterlife, because if the kind of things a pack of loudmouths with brains as malleable as playdoh but with just half the processing power put us into keep happening, we sure as hell are going to need it.

And now in the tone of that country song that got really popular since the Towers thing:

o/`I'm ashamed to be an American, cos my vote din't mean a thing... o/`

asdgoisadi@(!~~``
Hmm...just because someone posts a response, doesn't mean their post isn't a pile of shit.

You can't say that yet. There's still a chance that reason will prevail, and that the intelligent people of the US won't feel as if they've been raped with a sharp stick.

I would like to know where you liberals get this idea that Democrats are the "Intelligent people of the US". There is nothing intelligent about supporting a guy that won't take a solid position on anything. There is nothing that makes a Democrat more intelligent than a Republican at all. Period. To say anything different is just plain stupid and reflects badly on yourself.

Hmm...just because someone posts a response, doesn't mean their post isn't a pile of shit.

Spammer.

My reponse was intelligable, had a point, and was on topic.

How old are you, anyways?

Honestly? A little strange.

I just checked the C-Span map thingy ...

Clicky (http://network.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/election_night_2004/us_map_govsenhouse/index.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS)

Apparently, 101% of New Mexico's precincts have reported.

Spammer.

My reponse was intelligable, had a point, and was on topic.

How old are you, anyways?
It wasn't. I was questing someone saying that Kerry received more votes than were cast in the nation at that time.

Once again,
What is the vote % til now?
I mean how many have voted and how many should have voted?

Thanks for helping

I would like to know where you liberals get this idea that Democrats are the "Intelligent people of the US". There is nothing intelligent about supporting a guy that won't take a solid position on anything. There is nothing that makes a Democrat more intelligent than a Republican at all. Period. To say anything different is just plain stupid and reflects badly on yourself.

Ok, let's look at this pragmatically. That is to say, in practical terms. Bush got us into this mess. Maybe Kerry can't pull us out, but at least he isn't the one who started it. Four more years to fuck it all up some more doesn't make any sense to me. Anyone who can't see that looming on the horizon like a bad hangover isn't stupid, but shortsighted.

Maybe Bush takes a solid position on things, but that doesn't make him effective. He could take a solid position that the earth is flat, and I sometimes imagine that he does, but that wouldn't make it correct, nor would it help matters.

It wasn't. I was questing someone saying that Kerry received more votes than were cast in the nation at that time.

No, you made a joke that wasn't funny. I made a rebuttual using a picture that told you that you weren't funny.

For the record, we are somewhat frightful. And alas, the profane in their rule of the masses shall prevail. So there, the monkeys win.
And those with knowledge will huddle and try to convince those who can still think for themselvses that they have ben misled.
And I ask you: are you a monkey or a human?

I would like to know where you liberals get this idea that Democrats are the "Intelligent people of the US". There is nothing intelligent about supporting a guy that won't take a solid position on anything. There is nothing that makes a Democrat more intelligent than a Republican at all. Period. To say anything different is just plain stupid and reflects badly on yourself.

It's still more intelligent than supporting a guy who won't take a solid position on why Iraq was invaded or on the most dangerous terrorist in modern history. What Republicans call "Flip Flopping" the rest of the world calls "Flexibility."

How do I feel? Like someone offered me a chance to see time follow a course not set out towards the inevitable and instead would choose to be a time when we could possibly recover. But, sadly, time does not wait just for mortal wants.

No, you made a joke that wasn't funny. I made a rebuttual using a picture that told you that you weren't funny.
I was doing both. And I'm sorry you don't find my jokes funny, but you still don't need to spam just because you're having a hissy fit. Bush won, you lost, go cry about it and wake up tomorrow and realize it doesn't fucking matter.

Utterly sick. I'm not going to list my reasons here, I've done that over the past 4 years.

I would like to know where you liberals get this idea that Democrats are the "Intelligent people of the US". There is nothing intelligent about supporting a guy that won't take a solid position on anything. There is nothing that makes a Democrat more intelligent than a Republican at all. Period. To say anything different is just plain stupid and reflects badly on yourself.

Democrats? Liberals? Who's a Democrat or a Liberal? I, myself, am a liberal Libertarian, and I voted for Kerry/against Bush. Kerry does take many solid positions, but the Right has carefully sculpted a public perception that changing an opinion or not having a black and white worldview is somehow discrediting to one's character. No one said anything about the Dems being more intelligent, but I also share the opinion that there is very little for a thinking person to like in Bush. His rhetoric was feel-good, flag-waving crap that had no basis in the world he had affected over the past 4 years. He's flip-flopped on a number of things (no nation-building, anyone?) and utterly failed to deliver on others (being a "uniter, not a divider" sound familiar? How about civil unions?).

There is something to saying that Dems are more intelligent than Reps...polling listeners of AM radio (widely right-wing) finds that they are less educated, on average. Ditto goes for the findings that Fox News viewers are generally more misinformed on the issues. That's not my point here, though, merely an aside. My point is this - Reps needn't be any less intelligent, merely more dogmatic. Belief is a phenomenon separate from intelligence.

For the record, we are somewhat frightful. And alas, the profane in their rule of the masses shall prevail. So there, the monkeys win.
And those with knowledge will huddle and try to convince those who can still think for themselvses that they have ben misled.
And I ask you: are you a monkey or a human?


Huh? Kerrry won???

For the record, we are somewhat frightful. And alas, the profane in their rule of the masses shall prevail. So there, the monkeys win.
And those with knowledge will huddle and try to convince those who can still think for themselvses that they have ben misled.
And I ask you: are you a monkey or a human?
Those with knowledge wouldn't whine in a thread that mispelled intellectual in the title. You're just being pathetic. YOU LOST. Stop whining, or you'll lose again in '08. That's the difference between the two parties, when you guys lose, you just bitch and moan. Republicans act, maybe not always correctly, but they act. No one fucking cares about who you think has knowledge and who doesn't, since you guys couldn't muster the vote to beat potentially the most hated President in American history. You could have run a monkey and won, and YOU STILL LOST. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C

Whether we have that capitalist fuckhead son of a bitch asshole George Bush or that weak, just plain stupid fuckin dumbass John Kerry America and it's people are fucked. With Bush, we will be sending friends and loved ones to fight unneccessary wars for non-existant shit. And with Kerry, Osama might just hop on a plane over and kick Kerry out of the White House..weak ass.
Either way, we're fucked so just sit back, relax and be prepared for another 4 years of hell and bullshit.

I was doing both. And I'm sorry you don't find my jokes funny, but you still don't need to spam just because you're having a hissy fit. Bush won, you lost, go cry about it and wake up tomorrow and realize it doesn't fucking matter.

Can you too stop this bull"*" for a while? What are you, 8 or something?
That IS out of thread.
Thanks!

and is it typical american to ignore a question?
I would like to know how many have voted and how many should have voted...
Or is it to difficult?
PLease?
An answer anybody?

It's still more intelligent than supporting a guy who won't take a solid position on why Iraq was invaded or on the most dangerous terrorist in modern history. What Republicans call "Flip Flopping" the rest of the world calls "Flexibility."

This is another interesting issue, how are people from other countries feeling? As a brazilian, I think the enviroment is going to suffer a lot more, corporations will take over my country and enslave everyone because bush´s "ALCA" (I dunno how it is in english, it would be like association of free commerce of america) will destroy my nation, but, on the good side, is that a lot of jobs will appear for those who are willing to be terrorists, I know a few people here who is preparing to go to US and kill a lot of people on some random part of the country (honestly), but I, as a pacifist, will probably lose my job because some corporation will come here and take over.

Once again,
What is the vote % til now?
I mean how many have voted and how many should have voted?

Thanks for helping


Approximately 225 million are eligible to vote in America. Turnout is nowhere near that number, however--I believe the turnout rate is somewhere around 30%.

Those with knowledge wouldn't whine in a thread that mispelled intellectual in the title. You're just being pathetic. YOU LOST. Stop whining, or you'll lose again in '08. That's the difference between the two parties, when you guys lose, you just bitch and moan. Republicans act, maybe not always correctly, but they act. No one fucking cares about who you think has knowledge and who doesn't, since you guys couldn't muster the vote to beat potentially the most hated President in American history. You could have run a monkey and won, and YOU STILL LOST. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C

Um...yeah. Like they acted in 2000, when they couldn't take the loss, and fabricated votes out of nothing, because fair only matters when it works in their favor?

Can you too stop this bull"*" for a while? What are you, 8 or something?
That IS out of thread.
Thanks!

and is it typical american to ignore a question?
I would like to know how many have voted and how many should have voted...
Or is it to difficult?
PLease?
An answer anybody?
I answered your question here:
Yeah, it's like 54/50 right now.
54 million Bush to 50 million Kerry. Is it typical European to stereotype Americans and ignore their answers to an inane European question?

I was doing both. And I'm sorry you don't find my jokes funny, but you still don't need to spam just because you're having a hissy fit. Bush won, you lost, go cry about it and wake up tomorrow and realize it doesn't fucking matter.
You win the prize for the most annoying person around... now go home and QUIT ANNOYING EVERYONE!
as of yet, the election still has not been closed, and although it looks like Bush will win, the rest of the world will lose, Guaranteed.

But they do have more knowledge about politics and they read more and this kind of stuff, you can´t deny that.


Who says that they are more in tune with politics. They are not even involved in politics! When they do open their mouths, common sense makes them look like lobotomized chimps.

Its like when Paul Newman opened his mouth about how carbon dioxide emissions from cars should be lower. Carbon dioxide is the product of perfect, CLEAN combustion. What does he want, cars that burn gas, but don't emit anything at all? NOT POSSIBLE. Not only that, but cars are among the very lowest emitters of CO2 worldwide. They make up a negligible amount compared to the levels of CO2 coming from human beings alone! Common sense (along with every automotive expert and knowledgeble person) says that his argument is stupid. That is one example.

Celebrities/artists = no smarter than your average idiot.

Um...yeah. Like they acted in 2000, when they couldn't take the loss, and fabricated votes out of nothing, because fair only matters when it works in their favor?
Bush won the recount in Florida. Don't believe me, look it up. He had more votes in FL, which gave him more Electoral votes, which gave him the Presidency.

Those with knowledge wouldn't whine in a thread that mispelled intellectual in the title. You're just being pathetic. YOU LOST. Stop whining, or you'll lose again in '08. That's the difference between the two parties, when you guys lose, you just bitch and moan. Republicans act, maybe not always correctly, but they act. No one fucking cares about who you think has knowledge and who doesn't, since you guys couldn't muster the vote to beat potentially the most hated President in American history. You could have run a monkey and won, and YOU STILL LOST. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C

Sorry, I don´t speak english and I did not reallized that a lack of a letter would make the whole north american political scenario be ignored. Now, this is the future of the world, is not a soccer game, you can´t say "bla bla, you lost, I won", truth is, everyone lost...

You win the prize for the most annoying person around... now go home and QUIT ANNOYING EVERYONE!
as of yet, the election still has not been closed, and although it looks like Bush will win, the rest of the world will lose, Guaranteed.
I'll quite annoying you when every person stops posting annoying bullshit about Americans being stupid monkies. Deal?

Watch Farenheit 9/11
it may change your opinion of Bush a bit
Dont get me wrong, I still respect the man, but I do not agree with killing people, he is a war criminal, the only reason that no one will do anything, is that he runs the most powerful country in the world

Can you too stop this bull"*" for a while? What are you, 8 or something?
That IS out of thread.
Thanks!

and is it typical american to ignore a question?
I would like to know how many have voted and how many should have voted...
Or is it to difficult?
PLease?
An answer anybody?

There are roughly 300 million in the country.

So far about 100 million have voted. Don't know the breakdowns for legal age etc.

The shrub has polorized the nation so many more have voted then before.

It is the paradox. You need to vote to maintain freedom and yet can you be free if you don't allow people not to vote?

The term is disenfranchised. People who think their votes really don't mean anything so they don't vote.

I voted BTW. Always have and always will.

Sorry, I am not american and I did not reallized that a lack of a letter would make the whole north american political scenario be ignored. Now, this is the future of the world, is not a soccer game, you can´t say "bla bla, you lost, I won", truth is, everyone lost...
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Our candidate won, our candidate who we thought was best to elect. I don't care how the losing team feels.

No, I´m talking about famous people, like "professional intelectuals" like filmmakers, musicians and scientists.

"Filmmakers" and "musicians" are now intellectuals? Hmm. Someone must have changed the requirements for that apellation while my back was turned.

As an intellectual, I'm pretty happy. Why do you ask? :p

* * *

Honestly, I'll try to be as non-partisan as I can, and hang my Republican, death-penalty supporting, abortion-hating Texan hat on the wall and be frank (and I'm actually a moderate - i.e. I support gay civil unions and think they should be equal in the eyes of the law, I strongly believe in separation of church and state).

I don't think Bush is a saint, and I don't think he's the demon most of the people on these boards make him out to be.

I don't think Bush is a genius, and I also don't think he's the raging ignoramus most of the people on these boards make him out to be.

I generally find myself agreeing with the moderate Republican stance, and that's what Bush is... not the facist you all claim he is. I don't see the same man that most of you see, and I have to admit I'm rather confused about that disparity.

I support George Bush because he's a man of conviction and great moral character - he does what he believes is right rather than what polls tell him are the right thing to do. He's not a traditional politician, and I respect that. You all seem to assume that a Bush win is due to some marginalized Right-Wing Neoconservative (Facism? Please.) Christian Coalition. But that isn't the case - all the major news networks agreed that turnout was exceptionally high this year, and Bush won the popular vote pretty strongly. And on a personal level, as an athiest, religion played no role in my decision whatsoever.

For me, it came down to these few simple things.

1) I have no doubt Bush is a strong leader in the area of defense and homeland security - the recent Osama bin Laden tape cemented the need, at least in my mind, for a strong, principled leader willing to take a tough stance in the war against terrorism. Kerry's principles are simply too unclear on this very important issue.

2) I believe Bush's tax cut plan was a good idea and helped the economy out quite a bit - if you look at it, Bush inherited a recession and then got hit hard in the post 9/11 market. To kneejerk "OMG BUSH BAD - look at economy!" is ridiculous, and again, look at the Osama tape... of course the economy is doing bad in the wake of the World TRADE Center's destruction, which is exactly what al Qaida desired in the first place.

3) I don't believe abortion should be a choice for women without serious health risk. Therefore, I hope for a change in the U.S. Supreme Court and a future overturning of Roe v. Wade. I may not be a Christian, but I do believe abortion-at-will to be absolutely atrocious, and I find it apalling that this is considered a woman's rights issue - it's an infant's right-to-live issue. :mad:

* * *

My point (and I have no doubt it will be disputed): I have well thought out, well established, firmly held beliefs. So do many of you, I'm certain. While we may not agree, that does not make either you or me a _________ (insert derogatory term here), or non-intellectual.

I answered your question here:

54 million Bush to 50 million Kerry. Is it typical European to stereotype Americans and ignore their answers to an inane European question?

Nope not at all, it is just that you gave me half the answer, darling.
If it wasn't for Enoxaparin I would have not had the number I was after...

But now it is ok. Just keep on arguing.

Bush won the recount in Florida. Don't believe me, look it up. He had more votes in FL, which gave him more Electoral votes, which gave him the Presidency.

You saw what the ballots in FL looked like. If you could figure them out, kudos to you, because your average Floridian couldn't, and then the recount was handled by a woman in the Bush cartel who didn't want to lose her place on the gravy train, and a set of supreme court judges who likewise wanted to stay where they had it made.

Graft, baby. Pure graft.

I'll quite annoying you when every person stops posting annoying bullshit about Americans being stupid monkies. Deal?

You trying to suggest that many americans aren't stupid monkeys?

I give you my hick relatives arguments for the shrub
1) He's a Christian
2) He's a Republican.
3) He's willing to fight.

What about the issues of *whatever*? Which basically get written off as liberal propaganda.

What about the batch of people that vote on issues but only reading the political party comments rather then the bills themselves?

So we do have a batch of stupid monkeys.

Wow, this election is something, all the intelectuals in the world against bush, serious filmmakers and musicians, nobel winning scientists, plus every pacifist and leftist in the world.
Everyone doing their best to give the "everyone but bush" message, but still the "jesus told you to vote for war" has won. Incredible.

Thank you for proving that stupidity is not the republicans' privilege. Since when are movie makers, musicians, pacifists and leftists automatically considered intellectuals? Or is their opinion just worth more because they are on your telly?

Sorry, I am not american and I did not reallized that a lack of a letter would make the whole north american political scenario be ignored. Now, this is the future of the world, is not a soccer game, you can´t say "bla bla, you lost, I won", truth is, everyone lost...

Yes, but haven't you listened to our fine pundits? All you people in the rest of the world have a profound bias against America and George Bush, our fine defender of Mom and apple pie. Nevermind that such hatred didn't exist at anywhere near the magnitude is does today (not to mention compared to just after 9/11), since they'd like you to forget that it's all a reaction to Bush's arrogance and foreign policy. Of course, since our allies are greatly diminished and our enemies incensed, we are made safer by the military buildup George Bush demands as a result!

So much spin. You think what I just said makes no sense? I've been hearing the Neoconservative talking heads spewing such trash for months, and it's not gotten any more logical during that time. But, they cater to people who won't take the time to dissect their arguments, so they have little to worry about.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Our candidate won, our candidate who we thought was best to elect. I don't care how the losing team feels.

So you are hijacking my thread about a photo from austin powers just for fun?

There are roughly 300 million in the country.

So far about 100 million have voted. Don't know the breakdowns for legal age etc.

The shrub has polorized the nation so many more have voted then before.

It is the paradox. You need to vote to maintain freedom and yet can you be free if you don't allow people not to vote?

The term is disenfranchised. People who think their votes really don't mean anything so they don't vote.

I voted BTW. Always have and always will.
Even then, almost 200 million not voting? (yes, I have taken age into account here) that is still a big problem, these people are also usually the first ones to complain about the leadership. Here's a scenario: GET OFF YOUR A$$ AND VOTE FOR YOUR COUNTRY enough bullthis is obviously a serious problem

You saw what the ballots in FL looked like. If you could figure them out, kudos to you, because your average Floridian couldn't, and then the recount was handled by a woman in the Bush cartel who didn't want to lose her place on the gravy train, and a set of supreme court judges who likewise wanted to stay where they had it made.

Graft, baby. Pure graft.
The average Flordian could, the remaining 1% that got confused couldn't figure out how to connect an arrow to a dot. Hey! Where is this pointing
---> Bush
Is the arrow going to Bush? To Gore? To Nadar? I JUST DON'T KNOW!

Even then, almost 200 million not voting? (yes, I have taken age into account here) that is still a big problem, these people are also usually the first ones to complain about the leadership. Here's a scenario: GET OFF YOUR A$$ AND VOTE FOR YOUR COUNTRY enough bullthis is obviously a serious problem
Go the Ausie route and force the buggers to vote.

Wow! i find this really interesting to read... cos i live in Australia and so your elections have almost as much to do with our country as yours... and i didn't even kno who i would vote for if i lived in the USA :confused:

That may actually help, even if it involves voting for the least evil of the candidates (like we do in Canada)

Even then, almost 200 million not voting? (yes, I have taken age into account here) that is still a big problem, these people are also usually the first ones to complain about the leadership. Here's a scenario: GET OFF YOUR A$$ AND VOTE FOR YOUR COUNTRY enough bullthis is obviously a serious problem

Well I guess the question would be to the other voting nations. How much of their populace actually votes all the time.

Wow! i find this really interesting to read... cos i live in Australia and so your elections have almost as much to do with our country as yours... and i didn't even kno who i would vote for if i lived in the USA :confused:

Your indecision is shared by many in the States, as well. That was a big media focus this election--the undecided voters.

Arammanar, you are acting in an extremely provocative fashion. Calm down. Now.

http://www.bigwig.net/~bbw10606/pwned.gif
Tactical Grace
Game Moderator

We actually had pretty dang high turnout by all estimates, actually, especially in the swing states.

Honestly, as divided as this nation is, a lot of people don't vote / stay home because their candidate is guaranteed to win / lose certain states.

Ending the electoral college isn't really the answer either, as it further centralizes power away from the states and makes it such that candidates only have to win the major metropolitan areas. People in the center of the nation should matter too when it comes to electing a single Executive.

Im hoping that it's more than 1/3...

there. You got it.
My point

Arammanar, you are acting in an extremely provocative fashion. Calm down. Now.

http://www.bigwig.net/~bbw10606/pwned.gif
Tactical Grace
Game Moderator
I'm sorry, but three hours of "Amerikkkans are stupid fucking uidiots [sic]" is really irritating. But I will calm down.

Wow! i find this really interesting to read... cos i live in Australia and so your elections have almost as much to do with our country as yours... and i didn't even kno who i would vote for if i lived in the USA :confused:
Only two choices, poor democracy that! So if you have Hitler and Himler you must choose one, don't like it!

Im hoping that it's more than 1/3...
It's generally about 1/3 to 1/2. Most Americans don't vote.

The average Flordian could, the remaining 1% that got confused couldn't figure out how to connect an arrow to a dot. Hey! Where is this pointing
---> Bush
Is the arrow going to Bush? To Gore? To Nadar? I JUST DON'T KNOW!

Look, I think you and I could actually find some middle ground if we had a chance to talk it out over a beer, but right now, I want Bush not to win. It's not a partisan thing. I think he's an idiot. Like a dumber version of Stalin, if you will. Not like I'd like Damien to make it to the white house, but compared to the chimp, Damien looks pretty cool from here.

Look, I think you and I could actually find some middle ground if we had a chance to talk it out over a beer, but right now, I want Bush not to win. It's not a partisan thing. I think he's an idiot. Like a dumber version of Stalin, if you will. Not like I'd like Damien to make it to the white house, but compared to the chimp, Damien looks pretty cool from here.
That's totally fine. If Kerry was winning, I'd be pissed as well. But I wouldn't call all Democrats morons for voting him. Please, don't like Bush all you want, just don't be mean to us :(

You trying to suggest that many americans aren't stupid monkeys?

I give you my hick relatives arguments for the shrub
1) He's a Christian
2) He's a Republican.
3) He's willing to fight.

What about the issues of *whatever*? Which basically get written off as liberal propaganda.

What about the batch of people that vote on issues but only reading the political party comments rather then the bills themselves?

So we do have a batch of stupid monkeys.

Thank you.
No one cares that the man is making people REALLY hate america and you care less that he does NOTHING about the enviroment, a question that is really changing a lot of important government actions around the world and means nothing to the country that pollutes the most, no american cares not a bit about the way capitalism is going and I´m nowhere near a socialist, but people gotta think better about the capitalism, because it is ruining the world, but no, americans don´t think about none of these issues, all that there is on their mind "booyah, he kicks ass, I won, you lost, save the lord!", what I say about intellectuals are people that are really in touch with the world´s problems and sorry if you don´t agree, but filmmakers and musicians are in touch with world problems since it is part of their jobs to be. The thing is that the world is changing, the entire world wants to be more peaceful and wants to be more clean and wants children going to school while the most important country (the richer) wants the exactly opposite.

That's totally fine. If Kerry was winning, I'd be pissed as well. But I wouldn't call all Democrats morons for voting him. Please, don't like Bush all you want, just don't be mean to us :(

I'm sorry I implied that everyone who voted for Bush was a moron. I don't mean that to otherwise perfectly likeable individuals. I just look at many of the people supporting Bush, and I see these scary religious fundamentalists and militia members...wait...no, they don't vote. That would make them eligible for jury duty...

But anyway, the religious fundies scare me, and I know who they're voting for, because he sweet-talks them something fierce.

what I say about intellectuals are people that are really in touch with the world´s problems and sorry if you don´t agree, but filmmakers and musicians are in touch with world problems since it is part of their jobs to be.

Yeah right, people singing songs about their socks and making little dances while living off ridiculous incomes in their safe beverly hills retreats, never seeing anything more of the streets than the view out of their darkened rolls royce's windows and only watching their own shows on their televisions, are so much smarter and so much more in touch with the real world than your every day factory worker. :rolleyes:

We actually had pretty dang high turnout by all estimates, actually, especially in the swing states.

This is the one goodthing I see having come from this mess. Disregarding the proliferation of partisan foolishness, the irritation of the campaigns and new lows to which they've sunk, etc. at least more people got off their asses.

hum... it is true.
Unfortunatly not all artist (generally speaking) are any more intellectual then anybody else. Usaually those that are called "Superstars" or POP stars are just thinking about their own big house and fat bank accounts.

Anyway.

There are lot of intellectual everywhere too...
so.. where is the point?
Dunno... but the fact is that there is a lot of people that would like to do something about the abusing of our planet in the states too... they just don't get to be rapresented,...

Agreed, and I was rather bothered by the harping negative ads on both sides... however, due to that large turn out, I bet you'll see more of those types of ads 4 years from now. It's basic marketing - more turnout = negative ads work = more negative ads. :(

Yeah right, people singing songs about their socks and making little dances while living off ridiculous incomes in their safe beverly hills retreats, never seeing anything more of the streets than the view out of their darkened rolls royce's windows and only watching their own shows on their televisions, are so much smarter and so much more in touch with the real world than your every day factory worker. :rolleyes:

Obviously I´m not talking about britney spears... it was my wrong to say "famous", I don´t mean the superstars, I mean serious artists and not the "super-pop-teen-cool" ones.

Obviously I´m not talking about britney spears... it was my wrong to say "famous", I don´t mean the superstars, I mean serious artists and not the "super-pop-teen-cool" ones.

Exactly.
I really would like to see or hear what Laurie Anderson has to say about this...

Wow, this election is something, all the intelectuals in the world against bush, serious filmmakers and musicians, nobel winning scientists, plus every pacifist and leftist in the world.
Everyone doing their best to give the "everyone but bush" message, but still the "jesus told you to vote for war" has won. Incredible.

To say that all the intelectuals in the world were against bush is quite the assumption.

"How are intelectuals feeling? "

I'm feeling GREAT! Really, really great... yup, just great... sleepy and tired... but great nonetheless... thanks for asking. :D

First of all, I want to say that I'm Australian and I support neither Bush or Kerry, their foreign policies being so similar that the rest of the world is in for the same treatment either way.

Specifically

The War in Iraq and the appaling treatment of the Palestinian people.

I object to this thread for many reasons.

1. I know alot of 'intellectuals' who support Bush and his war in Iraq and despite how wrong I think they are, they can mostly defend their position.

2. I'm a Christian and it is a fallacy to suggest to anyone that chooses to live by Biblical morality is some how an idiot or not intellectual.

3. Being a Liberal does not make you intelligent, in fact, in my experience they are quite often no more intelligent than the 'fundamentalists' they hate so much.

4. "Anyone but Bush", is a stupid way to look at the situation, anyone like this should be ashamed of themselves, Kerry is no lesser evil and for that matter, neither was Clinton (He bombed Kosovo and wanted war with Iraq!).

5. What exacly do you mean by "Intellectual"? I can think of thousands who claim that title and only hundreds who actually are.

This all thread is just wrong, I wanted to say "musicians" and "filmmakers" and "writers" the way they are seen here in south america or the way they are treated in europe, I forgot that, in the US these people are nothing but "entertainers"

100 mill. votes? in total?
How many americans could have actually voted?

I am just a poor european that doesn't know much... sorry.

The counts I heard on the news were 120 million Americans voting this year. As for last election, I've heard 100 million and 105 million; in either case this year produced alot more voter turnout.

The counts I heard on the news were 120 million Americans voting this year. As for last election, I've heard 100 million and 105 million; in either case this year produced alot more voter turnout.

It's around 105 million. Out of somewhere in the 200 million range. Which is 50% turnout; alot better than in recent elections, but still somewhat dissapointing.

This all thread is just wrong, I wanted to say "musicians" and "filmmakers" and "writers" the way they are seen here in south america or the way they are treated in europe, I forgot that, in the US these people are nothing but "entertainers"

Entertainers yes, but not all "Musicians", "FilmMakers", and "Writers" are Intellects. just like not all Intellects are Artists (I use the broad definition of Artist here)

after all, I don't consider "Spice Girls" intellects, and Micheal Moore is talented, but IMHO not an Intellect, and Al Franken is definatly not an Intellect.

I think most intellects are feeling relief that now all the Political Ads will stop and they can go back to real intelligent shows... like LOST or Desprate Housewives... or even CSI.

This all thread is just wrong, I wanted to say "musicians" and "filmmakers" and "writers" the way they are seen here in south america or the way they are treated in europe, I forgot that, in the US these people are nothing but "entertainers"

I'm European and I still think media people are as (un)informed and biased as just about everyone else. Music, movies, and books have nothing to do with political awareness.

Can you too stop this bull"*" for a while? What are you, 8 or something?
That IS out of thread.
Thanks!

and is it typical american to ignore a question?
I would like to know how many have voted and how many should have voted...
Or is it to difficult?
PLease?
An answer anybody?
Looks like 95% of precincts in the entire USA have reported, and about 106 million people voted. There is no "should have voted" category, just whoever decides to show up and vote. I have heard some countries have compulsory voting, but ours is not one of them. Turnout was expected to be close to 120 million, an approximate 20% increase over the last election.

I'm European and I still think media people are as (un)informed and biased as just about everyone else. Music, movies, and books have nothing to do with political awareness.

Yeah, you´re right, I´m living on the past, good days when music was about politics, now I see a lonely green day singing about american idiots and in the movies a lonely michael moore trying to open a dialogue (ok, he´s not opening dialogues, but I want to make this post more dramatic) to people who thinks that "legally blond" is about politics and the "writers" field is so poor that michael moore again has to write something.
So sad is this world... I blame it on Reagan.

Yeah, you´re right, I´m living on the past, good days when music was about politics, now I see a lonely green day singing about american idiots and in the movies a lonely michael moore trying to open a dialogue (ok, he´s not opening dialogues, but I want to make this post more dramatic) to people who thinks that "legally blond" is about politics and the "writers" field is so poor that michael moore again has to write something.
So sad is this world... I blame it on Reagan.

I blame Mad Magazine... Don't take it hard... alot of people didn't know what you meant. and others are just being @$$#*(&$

as for how they think... well, we'll have to wait till they write/film/sing their works.

This all thread is just wrong, I wanted to say "musicians" and "filmmakers" and "writers" the way they are seen here in south america or the way they are treated in europe, I forgot that, in the US these people are nothing but "entertainers"

Generally speaking, musicians, filmmakers and many writers aren't considered to be "intellectuals" unless they have somehow earned that title by virtue being wise or thoughtful in some additional way other than being an entertainer. You might want to read "Shut Up And Sing" as a way of seeing how most entertainers are viewed in the US.

Many people in America are suspicious of those labelled as "intellectuals," perhaps with good cause. Here, the term carries connotations of snobbery, arrogance and elitism, of being impractical and isolated from the realities of life for most other Americans.

First of all, I want to say that I'm Australian and I support neither Bush or Kerry, their foreign policies being so similar that the rest of the world is in for the same treatment either way.

Specifically

The War in Iraq and the appaling treatment of the Palestinian people.

I object to this thread for many reasons.

1. I know alot of 'intellectuals' who support Bush and his war in Iraq and despite how wrong I think they are, they can mostly defend their position.

2. I'm a Christian and it is a fallacy to suggest to anyone that chooses to live by Biblical morality is some how an idiot or not intellectual.

3. Being a Liberal does not make you intelligent, in fact, in my experience they are quite often no more intelligent than the 'fundamentalists' they hate so much.

4. "Anyone but Bush", is a stupid way to look at the situation, anyone like this should be ashamed of themselves, Kerry is no lesser evil and for that matter, neither was Clinton (He bombed Kosovo and wanted war with Iraq!).

5. What exacly do you mean by "Intellectual"? I can think of thousands who claim that title and only hundreds who actually are.

Ok, nobody made the claim that liberalism made you intelligent, but as for the religion bit...

I didn't criticize people who are religious. I am deeply and privately religious. I'm talking about religious fundamentalists who feel that it is their right and duty to prosyletize and foist their religious mores on everyone else. THAT kind of behavior frightens and offends me. I see a lot of these people in the Bush camp, although I don't think that makes up all or even most of his supporters. I just don't like the brand of emotional blackmail that group has been using this election. I'm not a partisan. I believe that the candidate best suited to do the job should get it. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen in any case, and we'll have to take what we can salvage.

Ok, nobody made the claim that liberalism made you intelligent, but as for the religion bit...

I didn't criticize people who are religious. I am deeply and privately religious. I'm talking about religious fundamentalists who feel that it is their right and duty to prosyletize and foist their religious mores on everyone else. THAT kind of behavior frightens and offends me. I see a lot of these people in the Bush camp, although I don't think that makes up all or even most of his supporters. I just don't like the brand of emotional blackmail that group has been using this election.

I happen to agree with you about those who "foist their religious mores on everyone else." But "emotional blackmail?" The same charge could be brought against a number of other groups in both parties, the labor unions and NAACP in the Democratic party, for example. Aren't these groups simply trying to influence the various parties to pass more legislation in favor of causes they support?

I happen to agree with you about those who "foist their religious mores on everyone else." But "emotional blackmail?" The same charge could be brought against a number of other groups in both parties, the labor unions and NAACP in the Democratic party, for example. Aren't these groups simply trying to influence the various parties to pass more legislation in favor of causes they support?

Hey, there have been some dirty tricks on both sides. I just happen to come from a state where the scary religious fundamentalist running against the incumbent governor made sure that inserts of aborted fetuses got into the major newspapers, as well as some really sensational claims and horrible allegations. I've seen some of the worst piles of crap this year, and I'm ready for people to stop treating me as if I can be manipulated like that. You'd think that the lowest common denominator could set the bar a little higher, wouldn't you?

Those with knowledge wouldn't whine in a thread that mispelled intellectual in the title. You're just being pathetic. YOU LOST. Stop whining, or you'll lose again in '08. That's the difference between the two parties, when you guys lose, you just bitch and moan. Republicans act, maybe not always correctly, but they act. No one fucking cares about who you think has knowledge and who doesn't, since you guys couldn't muster the vote to beat potentially the most hated President in American history. You could have run a monkey and won, and YOU STILL LOST. P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C


Hi. Are you a republican because republicans have solid view points and take actions that might not be correct?
First, I think the same properties can be ascribed to Lenin and Mao.
Second, so what would you have done if you'd lost, burnt down the Whitehouse?
Third, you keep harping on about losers and the pathetic. Do you always back the winner? Would you be a democrat now if Kerry had won?

Hey, there have been some dirty tricks on both sides. I just happen to come from a state where the scary religious fundamentalist running against the incumbent governor made sure that inserts of aborted fetuses got into the major newspapers, as well as some really sensational claims and horrible allegations. I've seen some of the worst piles of crap this year, and I'm ready for people to stop treating me as if I can be manipulated like that. You'd think that the lowest common denominator could set the bar a little higher, wouldn't you?

I have no religious interest whatsoever, and I am by nature a leftish liberal. I can't see the problem with putting pictures of aborted foetuses in the paper though. Do women only have abortions because they don't know what they are doing? Shouldn't they be given all the facts?

Artists are not known for being any more intelligent than anyone else. I wish you'd stop stereotyping, it's the hypocrisy and bullshit like this that comes from the left which pissed off Americans enough to elect Bush again.


I think you found the crux of it … honestly a lot of people just so pissed at the antics that they voted bush out of anger. Tired of being meddled with and told what is “right” for them.

(note I understand that the right tells them what to do too but to the right wingers it is natural … as for the left telling the left what to do) in this cause the left made itself much more annoying and ran essentially on the “Not bush” ticket

I mean I felt myself have the urge to vote him just to “rub it in your face”

Ehhh it is what happened … instead of trying to understand people and educate them they told them why the were “wrong” they didn’t emphasize what they were doing right.

Both sides are guilty of it … but irregardless it drove people to vote party lines rather then by feeling. And it happened that enough undecided swung one way

Hey, there have been some dirty tricks on both sides. I just happen to come from a state where the scary religious fundamentalist running against the incumbent governor made sure that inserts of aborted fetuses got into the major newspapers, as well as some really sensational claims and horrible allegations. I've seen some of the worst piles of crap this year, and I'm ready for people to stop treating me as if I can be manipulated like that. You'd think that the lowest common denominator could set the bar a little higher, wouldn't you?

Probably, but that's not the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I wasn't being sufficiently clear. I was trying to illustrate that groups with issues about which they are concerned often try to influence elections so that candidates who at least agree with them in part get elected. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, unless they resort to, as you put it, "dirty tricks," such as "voting early and often." :)

Probably, but that's not the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I wasn't being sufficiently clear. I was trying to illustrate that groups with issues about which they are concerned often try to influence elections so that candidates who at least agree with them in part get elected. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, unless they resort to, as you put it, "dirty tricks," such as "voting early and often." :)

Well, I'm thinking of things like the people posing as democrats standing outside polling stations with pro-abortion and gay adoption placards, distorting things and polarizing them. Maybe they weren't put up to it, but it was a dirty trick. I personally think that qualifies, at any rate.

I give up. Whatever the result, life goes on. Might as well get on with it and adjust my plans accordingly.

Utterly panicked. If I was 18 I could move to Canada, but I'm not... I was, still am counting on Kerry to win the next four years so my teen years are not utterly screwed. :headbang:

Utterly panicked. If I was 18 I could move to Canada, but I'm not... I was, still am counting on Kerry to win the next four years so my teen years are not utterly screwed. :headbang:

How are your teen years going to be "utterly screwed?"

Why is it that you guys feel the need to attack republicans since you lost the election? If you look at the thread list, the only thread I see knocking Kerry is the "Ask a winner thread." On the other hand, there are loads of threads about how the world is doomed and we're going to erupt in thermo-nu-kuw-lur war.

I voted Nader by the way

Of course once I posted this someone made a thread saying "Bush Won!" over and over again

Why is it that you guys feel the need to attack republicans since you lost the election? If you look at the thread list, the only thread I see knocking Kerry is the "Ask a winner thread." On the other hand, there are loads of threads about how the world is doomed and we're going to erupt in thermo-nu-kuw-lur war.

I voted Nader by the way

Of course once I posted this someone made a thread saying "Bush Won!" over and over again

Hmm, and there seem to be at least 3 threads with various right wingers gloating right now, and that was just on my first glance. Of course, they're all touting the usual Bush-inspired message of, "Screw you, rest of the world, now you see just how popular Bush was. In your face!" :rolleyes:

Yeah, just my luck the wackos start posting once I say that. Oh well. I just don't like how instead of supporting their own canidate, they attack the other opposing canidate, or insult the intelligence of the supporters of the opposing canidate. Both sides do it to each other all the time

Why is it that you guys feel the need to attack republicans since you lost the election? If you look at the thread list, the only thread I see knocking Kerry is the "Ask a winner thread." On the other hand, there are loads of threads about how the world is doomed and we're going to erupt in thermo-nu-kuw-lur war.

I voted Nader by the way

Of course once I posted this someone made a thread saying "Bush Won!" over and over again
people knock republicans because the ethic championed by Republicans is centuries old. classically narrow minded...

an understanding of the classical Hellenistic (!0 philosophers shows that they knew what democritas was and practically engineereed republ;ic to keep it from really manifesting. so to empower the literal Brutality of the ceasars.

this can be denied but not honestly refuted. it is true.

the arrogance of Republicanism is evident to many people who, even though they may not have invcested time in a deep understandig of Gr4eek and roman history, know that something's up because the language they speek is mostly derived from greek and Roman -- mainly, American nglish so all day long the very deep nature of what is really slowly irking them to tears distractin and in toomany cases, death, is teasing them from behind the veil of illusion and evolution that is the change over time from greek and latin based language to the modern american tongue - literally, something is bothering people and it's right on the tip of their tongue.

that and also, people know Bush isn't that smart so the fact that they haven't been able to get him out of power annoys the shit (pardon) out of them leading to Bush's smirking and todays smug self righteousness among GOPers who are really benefitting more from the Scam of ages, Republic, then anything they have done.

When the follower of the hebrew rabinnical reformer yeshua, yachanan, went to Rome, they named him 'Marcus'. when Saul, the pharaisee turned apostle went there they called him Mercurius. later on the Romans would choose what stories they wanted to tell and NOT to tell (the apocrypha are only apocrypha because romans decided that christians should be kept in the dark about mary madgalen, thomas didymus judas, and other figures of the time)

all this is the cultural context for understsnding how Republicans are smugly scamming americans who are banging on the side of their sham democracy, saying "why isn't this &%$#!! thing working?"

My head hurts now :(

Yeah, just my luck the wackos start posting once I say that. Oh well. I just don't like how instead of supporting their own canidate, they attack the other opposing canidate, or insult the intelligence of the supporters of the opposing canidate. Both sides do it to each other all the time


You got it wrong.

Republicans are the Moronic Nazis
Democrats are the Commie pillow biters
Nader voters are the..well they are Nader voters, nothing more needs to be said
Libertarions(me) are the pot smoking anarchists.

weird because I dont do drugs and I am a law and order type of guy. Go figure

you haveto keep your party derogaties straight.

How are your teen years going to be "utterly screwed?"

He will probably be drafted.

The shrub is on a crusade to convert the middle east.

Iraq is not going to be solved for a few years.

They need soldiers to police it while the combat troops go attack somebody else. Probably Syria if not Iran.

Approximately 225 million are eligible to vote in America. Turnout is nowhere near that number, however--I believe the turnout rate is somewhere around 30%.

Your numbers are off

turnout was well over 50%

I dont think that there can be 225 million people eligable to vote. I think that there are only 260 million citizens, I would think that there are more than 35 million people under the age of 18. Not to mention all the people who arent registered.

The population of the US at this very moment is 294,670,157 people. So far there are at least 113 million tallied. Once you bring in the absentee ballots and overseas ballots, I think the news was guessing 125 million, although that figure is from last night. I think the overall turnout might be around 45% or maybe a bit higher. I heard that the young voters had a turnout around 20%, so I guess the draft scare didn't scare too many of us into voting.


http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/clock2.html

You can't say that yet. There's still a chance that reason will prevail, and that the intelligent people of the US won't feel as if they've been raped with a sharp stick.

Well it seems alot of the intellegent people in the U.S. will soon be the intelligent people in Canada.........

The population of the US at this very moment is 294,670,157 people. So far there are at least 113 million tallied. Once you bring in the absentee ballots and overseas ballots, I think the news was guessing 125 million, although that figure is from last night. I think the overall turnout might be around 40% or maybe a bit higher. I heard that the young voters had a turnout around 20%, so I guess the draft scare didn't scare too many of us into voting.


http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/clock2.html

294,674,157 residents, not citizens. I think there are 260 million citizens, Then factor out children and non registered people and you have a much lower number.

1) I have no doubt Bush is a strong leader in the area of defense and homeland security - the recent Osama bin Laden tape cemented the need, at least in my mind, for a strong, principled leader willing to take a tough stance in the war against terrorism. Kerry's principles are simply too unclear on this very important issue.


Bush may be a 'strong' leader in the area of defense and homeland security, but as far as effectiveness goes his record seems abismal. Most of his presidency has focused on demonstrating his strength with a war in Iraq that was justified by the war on terror, though the terrorists aren't in Iraq, and by faulty intelligence about WMDs. International relations are at the worst they've been in ages. Other democratic countries think that the war on Iraq was completely unjustified, yet we're there killing people and our own people are dying too. To me that isn't moral - that's evil. George Bush is incredibly arogant, because he believes that the United States has the right to do whatever it wants without concern for what other nations think. As far as I can tell, since we've pulled out of Afganistan we've done nothing about terrorism except alienate the nations that could help us fight it, and convince more people that maybe the terrorists are right about the US having an imperialist agenda.
Personally, I'd rather have a president whose convictions aren't so firm.

Wow, this election is something, all the intelectuals in the world against bush, serious filmmakers and musicians, nobel winning scientists, plus every pacifist and leftist in the world.
Everyone doing their best to give the "everyone but bush" message, but still the "jesus told you to vote for war" has won. Incredible.

Intellectuals... mmmh... guess you're right, only 9% of the people in the world are in favor of Bush so I guess the rest are the ones that actually use our intellects... :D