NationStates Jolt Archive

Let me point out just two things to you people, two things!

1. The bible wasnt written by god, it was written by people 1500 years ago who were possibly crazy.

2. The bible allows and promotes slavery, your not about to tell me that slavery makes sence.

The Bible also supports animal abuse as stated in Romans when it says that those who only eat vegetables are weak of faith.

I'm not religios, but i think religion is a good thing, well good religion atleast. Things were ALOT differnt when the bible was wroiten, and, assuming you are american, the fathers of our country supportd slavery. but things change, and in this case for the better. so, if you apply this philopsophy to your country, infact, almost any country in the world. you should hate it! hate it! hate it! spit on in! eat it up! curse it, because most likly it supported slavery. But anywayz, back on good religion, i wish i were religios, because religion sounds like it can make a person really feel good, like thier is a greater good watching over you, and if your good in this life you will be rewarded, get your just desserts, in the next. now, the spanish inquasition (how is it spelled?), 'eh.. not very good guys, same with the witch burners, but once again, times were different. do you ever kill a bug that is annoying you? YOU MURDERER! ITS THE SALEM WITH TRIALS ALL OVER AGAIN! BUG KILLER! GAH! what about pets? LET YOUR PETS GO! LET THEM BE FREE! now, slaves have a much higher inteligence then pets, but who knows? maybe someday owning a pet will be illegal.

Maybe you should look at the good things in the Bible instead of just the bad... :rolleyes:

Exodus

"Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12

"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14

"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16

Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22

Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1

Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2

Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5

Treat the poor fairly. 23:6

Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7

Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9

Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11
Leviticus

What is stolen or wrongfully acquired should be returned to the owner. 6:2-5

The Israelites are instructed to leave some grapes on their vines for the poor and for those that are travelling. Now that is a nice idea. 19:10

Don't steal or lie 19:11

"Thou shalt not defraud your neighbor, neither rob him." 19:13

"Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind." 19:14
But later, God's hero, David, says that "whoever kills the lame and the blind "that are hated of David's soul" shall be made "chief and captain." (2 Sam.5:8)

Don't gossip. 19:16

Don't hate people. 19:17

"Love thy neighbor as thyself." 19:18, Mt.22:39, Mk.12:31, Lk.10:27, James 2:8
This is by far the best verse in Leviticus, and one of the best in the entire bible. It seems out of place here, however, since in the next chapter God orders us to kill wizards (20:6), children who are disrespectful toward their parents (20:9), adulterers (20:10), and homosexuals (20:13). And throughout the Old Testament, God encourages the Israelites to kill their neighbors every chance they get. (See Numbers 31 and Exodus 32:27 for just two of many examples.)

Respect your elders. 19:32

Be kind to strangers. 19:33-34

Treat others fairly. Don't cheat. 19:35-36

To help feed the poor and strangers, farmers should not harvest the corners of their fields. 23:22

"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." 25:10

Do not oppress one another. 25:17

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html

In response to the title: No. I think that the Bible was authored by ambiguous, if not illegitimate, individuals. Not only this, but it is mired in a sea of absurd contradictions (vengeful god, peaceful god etc..).

I'm not religios, but i think religion is a good thing, well good religion atleast. Things were ALOT differnt when the bible was wroiten, and, assuming you are american, the fathers of our country supportd slavery. but things change, and in this case for the better. so, if you apply this philopsophy to your country, infact, almost any country in the world. you should hate it! hate it! hate it! spit on in! eat it up! curse it, because most likly it supported slavery. But anywayz, back on good religion, i wish i were religios, because religion sounds like it can make a person really feel good, like thier is a greater good watching over you, and if your good in this life you will be rewarded, get your just desserts, in the next. now, the spanish inquasition (how is it spelled?), 'eh.. not very good guys, same with the witch burners, but once again, times were different. do you ever kill a bug that is annoying you? YOU MURDERER! ITS THE SALEM WITH TRIALS ALL OVER AGAIN! BUG KILLER! GAH! what about pets? LET YOUR PETS GO! LET THEM BE FREE! now, slaves have a much higher inteligence then pets, but who knows? maybe someday owning a pet will be illegal.

Dont get me wrong I believe in religion, and its morals but not all of them, I dont believe in the bible cause god didnt write it. Anyway that thing you say about owning pets, thats what my mom always said, its funny you say that.

In response to the title: No. I think that the Bible was authored by ambiguous, if not illegitimate, individuals. Not only this, but it is mired in a sea of absurd contradictions (vengeful god, peaceful god etc..).

Maybe because different people wrote it?

1. The bible wasnt written by god, it was written by people 1500 years ago who were possibly crazy.

Eh, not quite 1500. Try 5 or 6 thousand (I'm not really sure). Not to say I believe anything in the Bible (save the good things mentioned by NG), but 1500 years ago puts it at the fall of the Roman Empire. Which is just wrong.

Kramers Intern, thank you for defining faith

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

here's where its from (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=faith&x=15&y=14)

In another thread, a few weeks ago, someone quoted parts of the old testament to try to argue against some points in another post. The original poster replied that the old testament is out of date and only the new testament (and the words of Jesus), are important. If thats true, then why is the old testament in there at all?

It seems to me (an atheist), that different people use parts of the bible that will "condone" what they want to think or do, and ignore the rest. That inconsistancy is one of the things that turns me off religion, and the bible. Another thing, is people who worship their God with their mouths, but ignore him/her with their actions.

If someone else finds that religion is for them, and they feel comfortable living within the church, and or the bible, then thats great. Go for it. I have never tried to "convert" people off religion, just because I don't believe, but the bible is, in my opinion, just partly a valuable historical record, and partly book of ancient myths.

The Bible also supports animal abuse as stated in Romans when it says that those who only eat vegetables are weak of faith.

scuse me but how does that suppot animal abuse?

Eh, not quite 1500. Try 5 or 6 thousand (I'm not really sure). Not to say I believe anything in the Bible (save the good things mentioned by NG), but 1500 years ago puts it at the fall of the Roman Empire. Which is just wrong.

Actually, your timeline is too far back. The Bible, as it exists today, was started thousands of years ago, but didn't actually get close to written down as a whole until around the fall of the Roman Empire. A very good arguement can be made for it not being in the current form until King James decided to have it translated as well.

scuse me but how does that suppot animal abuse?

You're talking to someone who views eating animals as animal abuse.

scuse me but how does that suppot animal abuse?

It doesn't. That merely condones meat-eating. And meat-eating doesn't neccessarily = animal abuse, depending on your opinion.

And the bible says homosexuality is a sin!

That is more than enough to discredit it.

Personally i always go with B1 when referring to the definition of faith...

and there are loads of contradictions...though shalt not kill, but hey slaughter a whole town because (i) want you to have it...sure makes a whole lot of sense to me...by the way i am an atheist, and hold firm to the ideals of objectivism.

ok well since i can't deal with so much liberal/anti christian bull**** im going into lurk mode

The problem with the Bible is that the political institution of the church doesn't seem to address the MAIN IDEA in the Bible (perpetual love and all that jazz), but instead likes to focus more on smaller things such as homosexuality, marriage, and tons of other rules.

:headbang:
It seems to me (an atheist), that different people use parts of the bible that will "condone" what they want to think or do, and ignore the rest. That inconsistancy is one of the things that turns me off religion, and the bible. Another thing, is people who worship their God with their mouths, but ignore him/her with their actions.


Exactly why people who try to win an argument solely with the phrase "because god says so" need to be ignored and never talked to again, people like this unfortunately cannot be reasoned with no matter how many facts you throw at them

In another thread, a few weeks ago, someone quoted parts of the old testament to try to argue against some points in another post. The original poster replied that the old testament is out of date and only the new testament (and the words of Jesus), are important. If thats true, then why is the old testament in there at all?

It seems to me (an atheist), that different people use parts of the bible that will "condone" what they want to think or do, and ignore the rest. That inconsistancy is one of the things that turns me off religion, and the bible. Another thing, is people who worship their God with their mouths, but ignore him/her with their actions.

If someone else finds that religion is for them, and they feel comfortable living within the church, and or the bible, then thats great. Go for it. I have never tried to "convert" people off religion, just because I don't believe, but the bible is, in my opinion, just partly a valuable historical record, and partly book of ancient myths.

It always seems to be that athiests have the most grounded and sesinsible view about religion, but this is coming from a unitarian how is spiritual, and not the least bit religios.

In response to the title: No. I think that the Bible was authored by ambiguous, if not illegitimate, individuals. Not only this, but it is mired in a sea of absurd contradictions (vengeful god, peaceful god etc..).
right the bible was commissioned by a roman emperier who was a sun worshiping pagen (no offence to pagens) the origanl day of worship was saturday and he changed it to sunday the day of the sun he also made a lot of christin holydays fall on pagen holydays so that there was a comprimise between the manily sun pagen romans and the christins and so most of the pagens would convert

(BTW i cant garentie that all of this is 100% right but i belive most of it is)
(BTW2 sory for the bad spelling :( )

Let me point out just two things to you people, two things!

1. The bible wasnt written by god, it was written by people 1500 years ago who were possibly crazy.

2. The bible allows and promotes slavery, your not about to tell me that slavery makes sence.

Please allow me to point out two things to you people, just two things!

1. The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by people 1500 years ago that were possibly crazy.

2. The Bible not only allows, but promotes slavery. You're not about to tell me that slavery makes sense.

(No, I won't tell you anything, only that your spelling and sentence structure are sub par.)

Please allow me to point out two things to you people, just two things!

1. The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by people 1500 years ago that were possibly crazy.

2. The Bible not only allows, but promotes slavery. You're not about to tell me that slavery makes sense.

(No, I won't tell you anything, only that your spelling and sentence structure are sub par.)
I love you Markreich! you are so cool. *breaks into unprovocked giggle fit of doom* HEHE! YAY!

http://www.picdump.org/albums/dragmire/Troll_XING.jpg

Actually, your timeline is too far back. The Bible, as it exists today, was started thousands of years ago, but didn't actually get close to written down as a whole until around the fall of the Roman Empire. A very good arguement can be made for it not being in the current form until King James decided to have it translated as well.

So ... the Bible as a /whole entity/ wasn't put together until the coucil of Nicea right around 350 AD, so you're both wrong ;).

However, it was simply composed of the Old Testament ... the books that were already holy to the Jews at the time (going back thousands of years to the first writer of the Pentatuch) and the newer documents ... the accounts of Jesus life that were considered first hand accounts.

As to the accuracy ... it's amazingly accurate. Take a look at what they're finding with the dead sea scrolls. They have a complete copy of Isaiah from about 500BC that matches word for word with the copies we currently use for the Bible ... the newest surviving record being from about 500AD.

Most of the contradictions people find in the Bible are actually mis-translations or simple misunderstandings. As an atheist, I studied this a long, long time. There's a lot of arguments you can put against the Bible, but a good biblical scholar can usually refute most of them ... unless you're arguing doctrine itself.

And FYI, the King James version is one of the prettiest versions around, but also one of the most inaccurate.

You're talking to someone who views eating animals as animal abuse.

And just as many people are saying here about the Bible ... the fact that /you/ believe it doesn't make it true.

So ... the Bible as a /whole entity/ wasn't put together until the coucil of Nicea right around 350 AD, so you're both wrong ;).

Can't be right all of the time. It'd get boring.

And just as many people are saying here about the Bible ... the fact that /you/ believe it doesn't make it true.

Actually, I was talking about Cakkivatti when I said that. I'm procarnivore.

So how does the Gnostic scripts fit into the Bible, if at all? Also, is there anyone here who is a deist?

Can't be right all of the time. It'd get boring.



Actually, I was talking about Cakkivatti when I said that. I'm procarnivore.

Gotcha ... snip quote ... redirect.

Getting late here. Brain matter receding ...

Let me point out just two things to you people, two things!

1. The bible wasnt written by god, it was written by people 1500 years ago who were possibly crazy.

2. The bible allows and promotes slavery, your not about to tell me that slavery makes sence.

The Christian Bible was definitely written by man (not to mention them changing the Jewish one a little), but the Jewish Bible is believed to be written by God and dictated to Moses. Here's why:

1) There are laws in there, called in Hebrew "Chukim" that have no explination whatsoever, it just says "don't wear wool and linen together." What? Does God just not want us be itchy? If the Bible was written by Man alone then such laws would not be in there (see what happened with Christianity, they wrote the Bible and decided not to follow these laws). And come on, why would it tell you not to eat milk and meat together? If the Bible were truly written by Man alone would the 600,000 men alive at the time it was given accept its laws?

2) You may eat any animal that has hooves divided into two parts and that chews the cud. However, you may not eat the following animals among those that chew the cud or those that have divided hooves: the camel, the hare, and the rock badger. (Although they chew the cud, they do not have divided hooves and are therefore ritually impure to you). Also the pig is ritually impure to you; though it has divided hooves,it does not chew the cud. You may not eat their meat or even touch their remains.(Deut. 14:7-8) . Hey you know what? Moses was never in Canada. He never even got as far Babylon, yet somehow he knew that the ony animals that chew their cud but don't have split hooves are the camel, the hare, and the rock badger (sometimes translated as "Coney").

3) All the bad parts are still there. If you now in the history of most nations, they write down all the good stuff that they do, but the bad stuff mysteriously vanishes somehow... Yet we see things like Levi's attack on Shechem (Gen. 49:6) as well as Aaron helping to build the Golden Calf, and Miriam speaking ill of Moses. They of course we see all of Moses's errors, like hitting the rock, not origionally trusting God. Oh and Moses wasn't allowed to enter the Holy Land. Had he written the Bible he probably would have. And why did he choose Joshua to succeed him as leader? If it were his decision, I'm sure he would have chosen his own son.

Now in regards to slavery, I don't believe the Bible promotes slavery for anyone. The Jews were slaves in Egypt, thus they were given specific rules on how to treat servents and others who work for you. Also, every fourty-nineth year, any worker has the right to leave, NO MATTER WHAT. This is called the "Jubilee" year.

"Hi there welcome back to the Handyguy Show, I'm your host Dobbs, and today we're going to show how you how to build a support for a Bible using pressed timberboard construction methods. Good for inside or outside use, this support will take only a few short hours to build, but will provide years of useful service.
First we start by paying a visit to our local lumberyard..."

Maybe you should look at the good things in the Bible instead of just the bad... :rolleyes:
Exodus
"Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12
"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13
"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14
"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16
Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22
Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1
Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2
Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5
Treat the poor fairly. 23:6
Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7
Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9
Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11
Leviticus
What is stolen or wrongfully acquired should be returned to the owner. 6:2-5
The Israelites are instructed to leave some grapes on their vines for the poor and for those that are travelling. Now that is a nice idea. 19:10
Don't steal or lie 19:11
"Thou shalt not defraud your neighbor, neither rob him." 19:13
"Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind." 19:14
But later, God's hero, David, says that "whoever kills the lame and the blind "that are hated of David's soul" shall be made "chief and captain." (2 Sam.5:8)
Don't gossip. 19:16
Don't hate people. 19:17
"Love thy neighbor as thyself." 19:18, Mt.22:39, Mk.12:31, Lk.10:27, James 2:8
This is by far the best verse in Leviticus, and one of the best in the entire bible. It seems out of place here, however, since in the next chapter God orders us to kill wizards (20:6), children who are disrespectful toward their parents (20:9), adulterers (20:10), and homosexuals (20:13). And throughout the Old Testament, God encourages the Israelites to kill their neighbors every chance they get. (See Numbers 31 and Exodus 32:27 for just two of many examples.)
Respect your elders. 19:32
Be kind to strangers. 19:33-34
Treat others fairly. Don't cheat. 19:35-36
To help feed the poor and strangers, farmers should not harvest the corners f their fields. 23:22
"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." 25:10
Do not oppress one another. 25:17
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html
What's that list supposed to show? That none of these points is followed by the characters in the Bible, not even by the referred god? You know, there is a huge discrepancy between what is said in the Bible and what is done.

Please allow me to point out two things to you people, just two things!

1. The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by people 1500 years ago that were possibly crazy.

2. The Bible not only allows, but promotes slavery. You're not about to tell me that slavery makes sense.

(No, I won't tell you anything, only that your spelling and sentence structure are sub par.)

If you are going to correct spelling and sentence structure, you should know that when talking about people, *who* is just as, if not more, appropriate as *that*. Thus, "The Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by people 1500 years ago who were possibly crazy" is perfectly correct.

right the bible was commissioned by a roman emperier who was a sun worshiping pagen (no offence to pagens) the origanl day of worship was saturday and he changed it to sunday the day of the sun he also made a lot of christin holydays fall on pagen holydays so that there was a comprimise between the manily sun pagen romans and the christins and so most of the pagens would convert

(BTW i cant garentie that all of this is 100% right but i belive most of it is)
(BTW2 sory for the bad spelling :( )

This is 100% bollocks. I mean there were roman emperors who were christian who encouraged people to convert, but really, you are talking nonsense.
I am not a christian.

Let me point out just two things to you people, two things!

1. The bible wasnt written by god, it was written by people 1500 years ago who were possibly crazy.

2. The bible allows and promotes slavery, your not about to tell me that slavery makes sence.

I support mine by holding it in my hand, and yes, I am refering to both my christian, and satanic blbles: Anyone want to give me the korann?(sp)

1) There are laws in there, called in Hebrew "Chukim" that have no explination whatsoever, it just says "don't wear wool and linen together." What? Does God just not want us be itchy? If the Bible was written by Man alone then such laws would not be in there (see what happened with Christianity, they wrote the Bible and decided not to follow these laws). And come on, why would it tell you not to eat milk and meat together? If the Bible were truly written by Man alone would the 600,000 men alive at the time it was given accept its laws?


This is may favourite argument of all time.

"The Old Testament must have been written by God, because it is so dumb it can't possibly have been written by a person."

I love it.

If the Bible is the Holy Word of God Almighty Himself, how can there be different translations and interpretations of the contents?

The bible makes no sence whatsoever, it's so full of contradictions. As an education person, I find it hard to imagine how people can actually believe in what it says. So many things have been disproven, and by scientists whose work is much more believable than the writtings of crazy people who we know nothing about.

I've met devoutly Christian people who have thought so little as to the origins of the Bible that they assumed God wrote it himself. Of course, no-one actively dissuaded them from that misapprehension, but then again, these weren't Epsilons I'm talking about.

Holy books are always filled shit but if you don't like its view you just ignore that part.

BANNED: Eating shelfish

BANNED: Wearing two types of fabric in one garment

BANNED: Men trimming their hair around the temples

Yet christians ignore all of these as if they were never in the holy book.

I've met devoutly Christian people who have thought so little as to the origins of the Bible that they assumed God wrote it himself. Of course, no-one actively dissuaded them from that misapprehension, but then again, these weren't Epsilons I'm talking about.
http://www.picdump.org/albums/dragmire/Troll_XING.jpg

if the bible was god's own word.. then it has been corrupted absolutly thousands of years and you expect the book not to have been adapted and edited? bah.. i've already written my opinions on the corrupted book...
i am not religious but i'm not an athiest.

http://www.picdump.org/albums/dragmire/Troll_XING.jpg

*quietly borrows pic for later use*

There have been too many things here for me to answer, or even remember.
Christians believe that the books in the Bible were written by people who were divinely inspired, or under the power of the Holy Spirit, and thus unable to write anything other than the truth. And, as people are so fond of saying here "Just because /you/ believe it doesn't make it true". Just because you believe that the Bible was written by men (disputed number) years ago who were possibly crazy doesn't mean that it was. However, to add fuel to your fire, the content of the Bible was argued out for a very long time before it was agreed upon by the early church: Revelation only just made it in, and a gospel by Thomas didn't. The Catholic church also believes in seven or so books that Protestants don't, such as the book of Enoch: these are called the Apocryphia (I can't spell it).
The 613 mitzvot obeyed by Jews were replaced by two given by Jesus (well, actually, quoted by Jesus; they were already in the Torah): "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and might" and "Love your neighbour as yourself". Jesus said that he had come to fulfil the Law: this meant that believers no longer had to adhere to the ceremonial laws. Regarding homosexuality, however, I would like to refer you to Acts 15:28-9 "The Holy Spirit and we have agreed not to put any burden on you besides these necessary rules: eat no food that has been offered to idols; eat no blood; eat no animal that has been strangled; and keep yourselves from sexual immorality".
Different translations and interpretations of the Bible are possible because although the writers were under the power of the Spirit, the translators and today's readers are not. There are places in Isaiah were the interpretation relies solely on the punctuation of the text by translators. It was written a long time ago, and some parts (eg Paul's letters, the mitzvot in the Torah) for people in circumstances that are very different to those faced by today's believers. Christians believe that the Bible should be interpreted with the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that the truth of God's Word can be understood.
The Bible does not promote slavery. The Bible allows slavery: it views it as a fact of life. Slavery was a fact of life in the ancient world. But teachings such as "for a slave who has been called by the Lord is free for the Lord; in the same way a free person who has been called by Christ is his slave." (1 Corinthians 7:22) were radical for their time. The Bible must always be taken in context.
How do people support the Bible? Unfortunately, the answer is through faith.

There have been too many things here for me to answer, or even remember.
...
How do people support the Bible? Unfortunately, the answer is through faith.

And also through science. I knew there were some christian research institutes out there, and I found this:

http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/bibleandscience.htm

There's a lot of claims by leading scientists that actually argue /for/ some of the "absurd" things in the Bible (like the world flood of Noah), but this site is more (would it be conservative or liberal to say they agree with the more common scientific perceptions and say the Bible backs them up?).

Burn it

Then people will follow the kind of life it was talking about. Without war and ignorance.