NationStates Jolt Archive

Why would God allow man to eat meat if he knew, expecting that God knows the future, that we would eventualy abuse, exploit, and massacre animals?

If God knew all, omnipitence, wouldn't he have realized the great catastrophes that would come from allowing us to have "dominion" over the animals?

If he was omnipotent, wouldn't he have realised the problems that Christianity would cause in the future also? :p

But I guess its the whole "the earth is our garden" mentality...

As for me, I like my meat, so maybe i'm going to hell. lol

Why would God allow man to eat meat if he knew, expecting that God knows the future, that we would eventualy abuse, exploit, and massacre animals?

If God knew all, omnipitence, wouldn't he have realized the great catastrophes that would come from allowing us to have "dominion" over the animals?

Becuase he wants us too. He is ineffible.

What do you want me to do? Make friends with the damn cow before I eat it?

I am a strong animals rights supporter and am extremely confused by the mesage God has sent to his people. Why would God sanction the eating of life that should be kept sacred?

I am a strong animals rights supporter and am extremely confused by the mesage God has sent to his people. Why would God sanction the eating of life that should be kept sacred?

Because people have to survive and, obviously, it's not too sacred to eat. Besides, animals have the same basic right as humans: The right to die. Everything else is just privilages.

Shouldn't it be the idea of compassion that is involved in it not simply the idea of God. The bible sanctions many things adhorrent today including slavery. Fortunatly many Christians and others have realized that it was wrong and fought against it. it may be the same with animals.

Personally I'm a buddhist and not a biblical expert so I can not give more on theology but that is just my opinion.

peace

I am a strong animals rights supporter and am extremely confused by the mesage God has sent to his people. Why would God sanction the eating of life that should be kept sacred?

Shouldn't it be the idea of compassion that is involved in it not simply the idea of God. The bible sanctions many things adhorrent today including slavery. Fortunatly many Christians and others have realized that it was wrong and fought against it. it may be the same with animals.

Personally I'm a buddhist and not a biblical expert so I can not give more on theology but that is just my opinion.

peace

Did you convert into Buddhism or were you born into it? I was born a Christian and am strongly thinking about converting into a Eastern more compassionate religion. What do you suggest I do?

I'm a convert and not born into it. I would recommend looking into and reading about various belief systems. Also if their is a temple or any thing in your area it may help. I got incolced actually when I wnet to meditate with a friend one day.

I've read a lot about Hinduism and Daoism, I am reading a book right now about the Buddha. My family will probably strongly disagree with me wanting to convert, my moms a strong Lutheran and my dad is a humanist who hates anything esoteric. Did you have andy problems with you're parents?

Wow is there a lot of misguided statements in this thread -
God gave us dominion over the animals - and the land - and to be good stewards over it before sin entered the world - we still have the dominion,but because we are sinful we corrupt all we try to do. Nothing wrong at all with eating animals - thats why we have incisors - but because we no longer server God like we should we have given into our sin and corruption - He is omnipotent and omniscience so He did know what whould happen.

And Christianity, true bible believing, God fearing Christianity is the only truely compassionate faith. - The eastern mysticism like budism where people presume to believe they are gods is utter egomania and foolishment.

There's a scripture about this somewhere in genesis or exodus or something, that we are supposed to eat meat, and then says something about the people who don't.. sorry i don't remember the exact place.

Actually in reply to the incisor thing. Incisors are the flat teeth in the front of our mouth. There are many fruit eating monkeys with incisor and canine teeth.

Youre right. In Romans there is part of the Bible that says that vegetarians are weak of faith, something I take offense to.

The God in the bible is not a happy, friendly God. There's plenty of suffering, torture, and dominance going on. He loves that stuff.

Fortunatly both of my parents are somewhat open-minded. Plus I have been an agnostic since i was young. it does sound like your parents differ in their religious belief so it may be easier. And it does sound like they do allow you the freedom to look at other ideas from your posts.

I've read a lot about Hinduism and Daoism, I am reading a book right now about the Buddha. My family will probably strongly disagree with me wanting to convert, my moms a strong Lutheran and my dad is a humanist who hates anything esoteric. Did you have andy problems with you're parents?

I hope you are right because the more I read the Bible the less it seems compassionate towards animals and the enviroment. Christianity is very humanocentred and doesnt seem concerned with the natural rights entitled to animals.

Youre right. In Romans there is part of the Bible that says that vegetarians are weak of faith, something I take offense to.

Well, if it's in the Bible, then I guess we can now make a case for vegetarianism to be a sin.

I am an atheist, and don't believe in any Gods, so my opinion will sound simplistic, and you may take it with a grain of salt if you wish :).

You need to remember the bible was written in stages over 1,500 or more years ago, when compassion toward fellow humans, let alone animals, was'nt high on the religious agenda.

The eastern religions do sound more compassionate toward animals, and the environment, but even that comes with a catch. I saw a documentry on a small island in Indonesia, predominatly Hindu, where there is a ceremony every year, that entails bringing two of every animal on the island to a certain temple, and slaughtering them. It is believed by the locals that this is needed for good luck and good harvests. That is just one example.
Another thing is that these religions believe in reincarnation, so rather than just being compassionate to animals because its the right thing to do, its more the fear that the animal may have the soul of a relative or friend.

No religion is kind to animals, except maybe Jainism. They even wear masks over their mouths, so they don't accidently inhale and harm insects.

I am an atheist, and don't believe in any Gods, so my opinion will sound simplistic, and you may take it with a grain of salt if you wish :).

You need to remember the bible was written in stages over 1,500 or more years ago, when compassion toward fellow humans, let alone animals, was'nt high on the religious agenda.

The eastern religions do sound more compassionate toward animals, and the environment, but even that comes with a catch. I saw a documentry on a small island in Indonesia, predominatly Hindu, where there is a ceremony every year, that entails bringing two of every animal on the island to a certain temple, and slaughtering them. It is believed by the locals that this is needed for good luck and good harvests. That is just one example.
Another thing is that these religions believe in reincarnation, so rather than just being compassionate to animals because its the right thing to do, its more the fear that the animal may have the soul of a relative or friend.

No religion is kind to animals, except maybe Jainism. They even wear masks over their mouths, so they don't accidently inhale and harm insects.

Many of the animal slaughterings that occure in Asian Hindu countries (including India) participated in those same rituals before Hinduism was even brought to those countries. Although the most of the Eastern religions teach compassion toward animals many of the folk traditions that use animal sacrifice have not been forgotten yet.

I am a strong animals rights supporter and am extremely confused by the mesage God has sent to his people. Why would God sanction the eating of life that should be kept sacred?

I'm sorry, but does anyone else see the irony and egotism here?

"I'm so confused! Why doesn't God agree with what /I/ think is right?"

:p

I'm sorry, but does anyone else see the irony and egotism here?

"I'm so confused! Why doesn't God agree with what /I/ think is right?"

:p

Please explain to me why supporting the rights of animals and the sanctity of right is egotistical and wrong? Why wouldn't God support me?

Would you say the same to an opponent of slavery responding to a supporter quoting the bible to defend the practice?

I'm sorry, but does anyone else see the irony and egotism here?

"I'm so confused! Why doesn't God agree with what /I/ think is right?"

:p

Please explain to me why supporting the rights of animals and the sanctity of right is egotistical and wrong? Why wouldn't God support me?

I didn't say it was wrong. The Bible did.

Would you say the same to an opponent of slavery responding to a supporter quoting the bible to defend the practice?

Well, I wouldn't because the practice of slavery was abolished in the Bible. However, if it wasn't abolished, then I would say the same thing. Don't mix up my words here, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, what I'm laughing about is someone who appears to be honestly offended that "God" doesn't agree with their side of the issue :).

See, Cakkivatti started by saying he's an animal rights supporter and that he's extremely confused by the message God has sent to his people. This implies acceptance of the Bible. If there's acceptance of the Bible (you believe its God's message), but then you are offended by the position it offers, then aren't you placing yourself above what you conceive of as God?

That's pretty egocentric :) ... and funny!

Please explain to me why supporting the rights of animals and the sanctity of right is egotistical and wrong? Why wouldn't God support me?

Because you are confused as to why the Bible doesn't support you and seem to think God should change his mind just to match your viewpoint.

Youre right. In Romans there is part of the Bible that says that vegetarians are weak of faith, something I take offense to.
CONTEXT. It's an important word. Most things in the Bible need to be taken into context.

At the time when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans, many early Christians found that it was difficult to obtain kosher meat and so abstained from eating it at all in case the Romans found out their religion and threw them to the lions.

THAT is what Paul means when he calls them "weak of faith". He did not mean that all vegetarians are weak of faith!

I am a strong animals rights supporter and am extremely confused by the mesage God has sent to his people. Why would God sanction the eating of life that should be kept sacred?

God said, apparently, that man has dominion and stewardship over the animals. This means we can exploit them up to a point. He didn't say that animal life is sacred. He said we should look after it ie not extinguish species, but that we can exploit them ie eat them and use them for beasts of burden.

Even knowing that some people will abuse the trust, he still gives us the trust, so that we have the free will to choose what to do. Free will is an important part of judaeo-christian-islamic theology.

I don't subscribe to any of these religions, I'm just telling you what they think.

Why should I consider the animals I eat as sacred?

God isn't as omnipotent as people would like to believe him to be. Why do you think he has all of those angels doing all of his dirty work?

I didn't say it was wrong. The Bible did.


Please give me the bible reference where it says that supporting the rights of animals to be treated decently is wrong.


Well, I wouldn't because the practice of slavery was abolished in the Bible. However, if it wasn't abolished, then I would say the same thing. Don't mix up my words here, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, what I'm laughing about is someone who appears to be honestly offended that "God" doesn't agree with their side of the issue :).


Please give me the bible reference where it says that slavery is abolished.


See, Cakkivatti started by saying he's an animal rights supporter and that he's extremely confused by the message God has sent to his people. This implies acceptance of the Bible. If there's acceptance of the Bible (you believe its God's message), but then you are offended by the position it offers, then aren't you placing yourself above what you conceive of as God?
That's pretty egocentric :) ... and funny!

I don't think he said he was offended. I think he said he was confused. If you're confused by God's message, and wonder if it can be right, then you are in very good company. Even Jesus was at times confused by what God wanted of him, and was doubtful. I think any person who accepts the bible wholeheartedly and then doesn't have any trouble with any of the things in it is either simple or doesn't know the bible.

God isn't as omnipotent as people would like to believe him to be. Why do you think he has all of those angels doing all of his dirty work?

he has angels cos he felt like some company. he made them out of pure spirit to be company, but he got fed up with them constantly worshipping and singing so he made people out of mixed spirit and flesh.

he has angels cos he felt like some company. he made them out of pure spirit to be company, but he got fed up with them constantly worshipping and singing so he made people out of mixed spirit and flesh.
That's not what he told me. He told me that his angels are what give the sense of him being everywhere. They serve as his information network and they do the things that need to be done here on earth. God just spends most of his time supervising. He doesn’t know every little detail. However he does have access to any detail that he wants. He just has to go to the archives. But as for him being all powerful even he says that that’s impossible. Sure he may have a lot of power but it is anything but infinite. Even god needs time off every now and then. Why do you think god rested after creating the world? Sure he wanted to enjoy his creation, but he was dog tired as well.

Why would God allow man to eat meat if he knew, expecting that God knows the future, that we would eventualy abuse, exploit, and massacre animals?

The good thing about gods is that there are so many to choose from. So, find one with more progressive ideas.

Why should I consider the animals I eat as sacred?
Because they give you life and become a part of you. Geez, that's the problem with people getting used to finding their food in the supermarket.

Sacred or not, they should be treated with respect and compassion.

Even the Buddah ate meat.

"Now at the time many Niganthas, waving their arms, were moaning from carriage road to carriage road, from cross road to cross road in the city:

'Today a fat beast, killed by Siha the general, is made into a meal for the recluse Buddha, the recluse Buddah makes use of this meat knowing that it was killed on purpose for him, that the deed was done for his sake'..."

Buddhists were making the ethical distinction between buying meat already prepared for sale and ordering a certain animal to be killed, a distinction which is not obvious to many westerners but which recurs throughout the Buddha's own teachings.

"Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you."

Please give me the bible reference where it says that supporting the rights of animals to be treated decently is wrong.

I was mirroring what /he/ was claiming. His claim is that it's abuse to eat animals, which the Bible does promote.

Please give me the bible reference where it says that slavery is abolished.

I spoke too quickly. I meant to say that even were the Bible to conone slavery (which in the NT it does not), then if you /believe/ in the Bible and /believe/ that God wrote it, then you would be forced to condone slavery as well. If you didn't, then you couldn't very well believe one or the other.

I don't think he said he was offended. I think he said he was confused. If you're confused by God's message, and wonder if it can be right, then you are in very good company. Even Jesus was at times confused by what God wanted of him, and was doubtful. I think any person who accepts the bible wholeheartedly and then doesn't have any trouble with any of the things in it is either simple or doesn't know the bible.

Fine, you don't see the humor in the situation. Yes, it's good to question things, and I'm glad he is, and that he's doing some searching. His phrasing was still funny.

Which is actually more limiting then one may suspect (at least for today). In the buddha's time their was no refrigeration (thus meat would not last long and was often given away to beggers before it spoiled). Since the buddha and his followers were dependent on their alms bowols for food this often came up. it was different if a follower of the buddha was invited for dinner at someone's place (where animals were often slaughtered for guests) as in that case it would have been killed for their benifit. Most of the meat in supermarkets and the like counts as the latter (being killed for your benifit) in my opinion as it was killed on purpose for you.


"Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you."

Save a cow...













eat a vegetarian! :p

Animals are lower life forms. The food chain dictates the protocol. There's no "evil" in eating an animal for food. not even if it tastes good. It could be argued (and I would agree) that gluttony, eating far more meat than you really can digest, would be "evil". But I suppose I go overboard sometimes too. Like my triple-bypass burger. That's another story.

I'm an omnivore. I prefer meat, cheese, bread and potatoes. It's the barbarian diet, and I love it.

What? There is no catastrophe involving my eating of meat. Animals taste good. Shut up your vegan bitchy nonsense.

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three-Maddox

Consider yourself sponsored wench.

Animals are lower life forms. The food chain dictates the protocol. There's no "evil" in eating an animal for food. not even if it tastes good. It could be argued (and I would agree) that gluttony, eating far more meat than you really can digest, would be "evil". But I suppose I go overboard sometimes too. Like my triple-bypass burger. That's another story.

I'm an omnivore. I prefer meat, cheese, bread and potatoes. It's the barbarian diet, and I love it.

You, good sir, sound like a proper Central European or American.

Even the Buddah ate meat.

"Now at the time many Niganthas, waving their arms, were moaning from carriage road to carriage road, from cross road to cross road in the city:

'Today a fat beast, killed by Siha the general, is made into a meal for the recluse Buddha, the recluse Buddah makes use of this meat knowing that it was killed on purpose for him, that the deed was done for his sake'..."

Buddhists were making the ethical distinction between buying meat already prepared for sale and ordering a certain animal to be killed, a distinction which is not obvious to many westerners but which recurs throughout the Buddha's own teachings.

"Monks, I allow you fish and meat that are quite pure in three respects: if they are not seen, heard or suspected to have been killed on purpose for a monk. But, you should not knowingly make use of meat killed on purpose for you."


From what I get out of this (sukafitz correct me if wrong) if the animal was killed with the intent of someone's consumption, but not for the intended consumption of a specific person, it is fine, k-rekt?

Because they give you life and become a part of you. Geez, that's the problem with people getting used to finding their food in the supermarket.

Sacred or not, they should be treated with respect and compassion.
Plants both give you life and become a part of you. Should we give them respect and compassion?

Only if you accept that by purchasing something done for your benifit you don't have any responsibility for what is done.

From what I get out of this (sukafitz correct me if wrong) if the animal was killed with the intent of someone's consumption, but not for the intended consumption of a specific person, it is fine, k-rekt?

Why would God allow man to eat meat if he knew, expecting that God knows the future, that we would eventualy abuse, exploit, and massacre animals?

If God knew all, omnipitence, wouldn't he have realized the great catastrophes that would come from allowing us to have "dominion" over the animals?By that reasoning, if the omnipotent and omniscient God looked ahead and saw that man would eventually abuse, exploit, and massacre humanity, he (or she, or .... ) wouldn't he (she, .... ) have completely eliminated our ability to self-determine anything at all?

So...I guess that neither of these is in the "plan", as he (she, .... ) understands it. And, since we simply don't understand it...

That's not what he told me. He told me that his angels are what give the sense of him being everywhere. They serve as his information network and they do the things that need to be done here on earth. God just spends most of his time supervising. He doesn’t know every little detail. However he does have access to any detail that he wants. He just has to go to the archives. But as for him being all powerful even he says that that’s impossible. Sure he may have a lot of power but it is anything but infinite. Even god needs time off every now and then. Why do you think god rested after creating the world? Sure he wanted to enjoy his creation, but he was dog tired as well.After that, how hard was it for you to pull your tongue back out of your cheek?

:cool:

Plants both give you life and become a part of you. Should we give them respect and compassion?
Yep.