NationStates Jolt Archive

Is there such a thing as randomness? Or does everything have a group of specific causes?

I personally believe that all things have a set of determinants that guide the action. This extends to humans, in that I feel that every decision one makes it is governed by a set of external and internal forces, and as long as all of these forces are the same, the same decision would be made.

So much for self-determination and free will, but I think we can all still enjoy the experience.

Is there such a thing as randomness? Or does everything have a group of specific causes?

I personally believe that all things have a set of determinants that guide the action. This extends to humans, in that I feel that every decision one makes it is governed by a set of external and internal forces, and as long as all of these forces are the same, the same decision would be made.

So much for self-determination and free will, but I think we can all still enjoy the experience.
If you know all the variables, you can predict the logical outcome. However, since that is impossible, randomness exists, but only due to our inability to measure it.

random is simply out of order or fashion. It does exist because the universe itself was created out of a random event, and thus chaos ensued.

"If you know all the variables, you can predict the logical outcome. However, since that is impossible, randomness exists, but only due to our inability to measure it." - Arammanar

This leads to many questions as well
Now does that mean that we have no free will?
Are we only subject to the laws and forces around us?
Does this help prove the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent God?

The last question is the most important, as God would be the one being who would be able to measure such a system, and make predictions based on it.

random is simply out of order or fashion. It does exist because the universe itself was created out of a random event, and thus chaos ensued.

We are unsure as to what caused the creation of the universe, and so cannot be sure that it was an isolated random event.

And while the actions resulting from the creation of the universe may seem random, they were direct results from the forces and objects surrounding them.

To me, all of creation resembles a mathematician testing a complex equation than the work of a governing supreme being.

According to current quantum theory, randomness does occur in the universe, though this may be proven wrong.

In classical physics, the universe is deterministic - cause and effect with certain outcomes.

In quantum physics, however, the uncertainty principle throws this into doubt, claiming that on the quantum scale, there are "random" events, and only the probabilities of different outcomes can be known.

One notable opponent of this was Albert Einstein. He may yet be proven correct to doubt it. Only time will tell.

This leads to many questions as well
Now does that mean that we have no free will?
Are we only subject to the laws and forces around us?
Does this help prove the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent God?

The last question is the most important, as God would be the one being who would be able to measure such a system, and make predictions based on it.
We have free will, because we don't know every detail.

We are subject to laws and forces around us because God manipulates those forces.

It never proves nor disproves God, it is irrelevant to His (non)existence.

According to current quantum theory, randomness does occur in the universe, though this may be proven wrong.

In classical physics, the universe is deterministic - cause and effect with certain outcomes.

In quantum physics, however, the uncertainty principle throws this into doubt, claiming that on the quantum scale, there are "random" events, and only the probabilities of different outcomes can be known.

One notable opponent of this was Albert Einstein. He may yet be proven correct to doubt it. Only time will tell.
No, the quantum theory states that you cannot measure everything, because the act of measuring alters the outcome. If you were omniescent, and knew every variable at one moment, you could predict everything in the universe's future.

No, the quantum theory states that you cannot measure everything, because the act of measuring alters the outcome. If you were omniescent, and knew every variable at one moment, you could predict everything in the universe's future.

OK, I guess I got mixed up there. My point is that for randomness to truly exist, we would have to live in a nondeterministic universe.

We have free will, because we don't know every detail.

We are subject to laws and forces around us because God manipulates those forces.

It never proves nor disproves God, it is irrelevant to His (non)existence.

But our ignorance to the details surrounding our decision still does not change the fact that our decisions are governed by external and internal forces that are beyond our control.

How can you argue you envoke God in your argument, and then say that the argument is irrelevant to God's existence?

Your second answer is exactly what I was alluding to in the third question. It was my point that the existence of these forces that govern our actions would be a very strong piece of evidence for the existence of God, as the mechanisms at work could be considered the devine hand of a God.

I do not believe that a supreme being has an active hand in our existence. But I would not rule out that one created a grand algorithm that governs all we do.

It seems to me that a supreme being would much prefer an algorithm of forces than to be forced to impose his will at all times.

Do you suppose there is a reason that God created our faces at random? Do you suppose that there is a reason that we have a random amount of opinions on any issue out there? Do you suppose God created a random amount of planets out there? DO you suppose there is a reason God created a random amount of continents instead of just one on our planet he gave us in a gift? Do you suppose? Or do you know? I know because I have faith in our father. When you ask a question to anyone out there in this world do you instantly get a answer that comes to you through our fathers guidance? I am willing to bet that when we stop ignoring our father we all could hear this truth. You do not need to be religous, all you have to do is want to believe. The instincts and conscienceness that we are given has been fogged up by our labels and formalities that our non-believers have fed to us through out time. It does not have to be for I hear our father loud and clear.

There was a lot of stuff in the previous post, but I would say that:

Faces are determined by genetics.
The continents are determined by tectonic movements.

No, the quantum theory states that you cannot measure everything, because the act of measuring alters the outcome. If you were omniescent, and knew every variable at one moment, you could predict everything in the universe's future.

No there is randomness too in quantum theory. Interestingly some scientists are now of the opinion that quantum interactions play a role in conciousness. They may just be cranks though, I'm not a brain scientist..

Actually classical physics allows for ramdom seeming events too. Anytime the output is not a continuous function of the inputs chaotic behavior is observed. The argument there is, however, that it is the fault of our math and inablity to measure enough variables accurately. So its not truely "random", but just seems that way.

Faces are not determined entirely by genetics and even so when they do it was because God intended this to be. I do not look much like anyone in my family. The continents spread out just the same as if you place dots near each other on a baloon and blow it up, they will slowly spread apart. this expansion of land mass is brought on by pressure underneath the tectonic plates. this pressure is built up through the force of lava and gases that pressurize under the crust. the lava and gases build up to the point of needing a place to escape and this is finally released when an earthquake happens with a surface break. Now I have only taken a general science class and it says nothing about this but why do you suppose in the future this will be proven correct? Our father created this planet similiar to how a human body in which it grows on its own. Man tries to create many things similar to how God creates things, but God is perfect at it that is the destinct difference. Look at how we create a car, it needs gas like we need food, needs water to cool it down like we sweat, it has tires like we have feet and so on. God created us in the form of God and yet we try to create things without realizing it that also emulate us. We are not programmed to do this, it is within our natural instincts to do this. Our thoughts, our actions and so much more can be connected if I had time, which soon enough I pray I will. For now I will have patience because that is truly a large virtue to keepsake. Love your father and I promise you that your world will be tunred upside down to a near perfect if not perfect life. Depends on your standards. God does state "no formalities" and "no labels" and seek "peace". Understanding and accepting to love God will change your life I have complete full faith in this. What would happen if we dropped all of our formalities and labels and seeked peace with everyone in this wrold? It would truly become a beautiful place with no death, no stealing, no lying, no cheating, no pain but all the love anyone could ever handle.

No there is randomness too in quantum theory. Interestingly some scientists are now of the opinion that quantum interactions play a role in conciousness. They may just be cranks though, I'm not a brain scientist..

Actually classical physics allows for ramdom seeming events too. Anytime the output is not a continuous function of the inputs chaotic behavior is observed. The argument there is, however, that it is the fault of our math and inablity to measure enough variables accurately. So its not truely "random", but just seems that way.
There is no randomness. An electron moves in a predictable pattern at a predictable speed. You just can't predict both simultaneously.

I think everything is random. We don't realize it because we ignore or rationalize away much of it and what is left we are used to.

I think there is randomness, even if it is only the appearance of randomness. If it acts random, and looks random, and smells random ...then it's random!

Found this on a website:
"Another system in which sensitive dependence on initial conditions is evident is the flip of a coin. There are two variables in a flipping coin: how soon it hits the ground, and how fast it is flipping. Theoretically, it should be possible to control these variables entirely and control how the coin will end up. In practice, it is impossible to control exactly how fast the coin flips and how high it flips. It is possible to put the variables into a certain range, but it is impossible to control it enough to know the final results of the coin toss."
Whether or not randomness is determined by cause-and-effect series, if it can be utilized as randomness that's all that matters. As long as the flip of a coin gives us a result we could not predict, it's random.