NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1340556,00.html


Michael Moore's video cameras poised to focus on dirty tricks

The filmmaker Michael Moore has announced a large-scale effort to combat dirty tricks during tomorrow's US election by stationing hundreds of people with video cameras outside polling stations.
"I'm putting those who intend to suppress the vote on notice: voter intimidation and suppression will not be tolerated," Mr Moore said in a statement, wading into a controversy in which Democrats accuse Republicans of planning to reduce turnout, especially among ethnic minorities, by employing thousands of people to stop voters at the polls and challenge the validity of their registrations.

Mr Moore, the director of the documentary Fahrenheit 9/11, said 1,200 professional and amateur videographers would descend on polling stations in Florida and Ohio, the two battleground states that have been the focus of the most serious allegations. The last few months have seen an unprecedented drive to register new voters, especially in black neighbourhoods of Florida and throughout Ohio.

But the new registrations could be deemed invalid as a result of errors made on the forms, from corner-cutting by workers paid to sign people up, or from deliberate fraud.

In Milwaukee, in the swing state of Wisconsin, Republicans produced a list of 37,000 voters whose addresses they said were questionable. They argued that all voters should be required to show identification at the polls tomorrow, otherwise they would instruct thousands of poll workers to challenge people.

But Milwaukee's city attorney, who represents no party, said hundreds of addresses on the list had already been confirmed as valid, and local Democrats warned that voters could be disenfranchised simply for failing to include their apartment number as part of their street address. Meanwhile, continuing chaos seemed inevitable in Broward County, Florida - home of the notorious "pregnant chads" of the 2000 election - where thousands of voters are likely to end up without a vote after their absentee ballots went missing.

Some replacement ballots were sent last week by courier, but 2,500 were only posted at the weekend - and by regular mail.

Legally, if the voter lives in the US, the ballots must arrive back at Broward County, whether by hand or by post, by 7pm tomorrow.

The US postal service told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel it was "really asking a lot" to expect the ballots to reach voters in time.

"There's nothing we can do about those," countered Brenda Snipes, Broward's election supervisor. "Those were last-minute requests that just came in this week."

More widespread problems could result from a nationwide shortage of at least half a million poll workers, the US election assistance commission said yesterday. It pleaded with businesses to give volunteers the day off work so that they could help operate polling stations and count votes.

"If the criminal justice system didn't have access to jurors, the criminal justice system wouldn't exist. Poll workers are just as important as jurors," said DeForest Soaries Jr, the commission's chairman.

Around the country, scattered reports of suspicious campaigning activities continued to surface.

In North Carolina, Republican party officials distanced themselves from a Washington-based group, the College Republican National Committee, which was reported to have been targetting elderly people with confusing fundraising calls, prompting several to give money without knowing how much, or to whom, they had donated.

Across the border in South Carolina, the Democratic party said a letter was circulating which wrongly informed voters that they could be arrested at the polls if they had outstanding parking tickets or child-support payments.
I think this a good thing, but Moore is very partisan. He might choose to ignore Democrat fraud (if there is any) and exaggerate Republican fraud.

Of course he would. He is a self-agrandising moron who sees himself as some sort of prophet. Those who follow him will one day see the emporer and his new clothes.

Of course he would. He is a self-agrandising moron who sees himself as some sort of prophet. Those who follow him will one day see the emporer and his new clothes.

He simply hates Bush, he isn't a moron.

please don't start a flame war

He simply hates Bush, he isn't a moron.

please don't start a flame war

No, he simply hates everything. He hates that people are allowed to own guns. He hates large corporations. He plants half-truths out there for the gullible, who see him as some sort of svimgali. He goes around to colleges here in the states, charging 30K to 50K to speak. Of course these funds come from the student funds. This guy is all about the money and those who believe what he is saying are just making him rich. I hope Bush wins in a landslide and Moore has a stroke as a result. Or, maybe he will choke on a chicken bone when he hears the news. That would be more fitting.

Those who follow him will one day see the emporer and his new clothes.

Considering who we're talking about, that's really a terrifying prospect.

My personal opinion is that Moore genuinely wants democracy to take place. He simply does not want either side to cheat, but suspects the Rupublicans of cheating more, as they did cheat last time. Having read Stupid White Men, I can definatly say that he does not trust the Democrats as far as he can throw them.
Bravo Michael Moore!!

surely the users of a politically-informed website like NationStates have learned by now that Michael Moore and anything he does should be ignored with extreme prejudice. He's a screaming loon that is the perfect image for the Republicans to use as the image of the Democrat cause. He has done far more to further Bush's campaign with his biased tirades of lies about him than Bush ever could with campaigning.

I'm deeply anti-Bush in the extreme, but I realise that having scruffy fat nutcases like Michael Moore screaming about how much they hate him is damaging our cause (by 'our' I mean those that want a sensible candidate in office - not specifically Democrat, or specifically anyone else, though I'm a Badnarik supporter myself) rather than his.

surely the users of a politically-informed website like NationStates have learned by now that Michael Moore and anything he does should be ignored with extreme prejudice. He's a screaming loon that is the perfect image for the Republicans to use as the image of the Democrat cause. He has done far more to further Bush's campaign with his biased tirades of lies about him than Bush ever could with campaigning.

I'm deeply anti-Bush in the extreme, but I realise that having scruffy fat nutcases like Michael Moore screaming about how much they hate him is damaging our cause rather than his.

Well that's because he probably wants Bush to win.

Bush has been better for him than any other president.

Well that's because he probably wants Bush to win.

Bush has been better for him than any other president.

Yeah, I guess if Kerry wins Moore will have to shut up then huh? ;) Who would he gripe about then?

Oh, let the sanctimonious fatman have his say, that's what your society is all about. I just don't want to have to play host to a Moore-in-exile dealie, if only 'cause I can't take him in large doses.

Considering the Fareinheit 9/11 mockumentary (if that's a documentary, I'm emperor of North America and everyone has to bow down and kiss my feet) and his idiocy with Bowling for Columbine, I have to say the best thing this guy can do to support Kerry is jump out in front of Kerry's limosine while it's moving and manage to not survive. Kerry would become a national hero after that and Bush wouldn't be able to beat him.

Biff Pileon has, so far, been on the ball about Moore.

Yeah, I guess if Kerry wins Moore will have to shut up then huh? ;) Who would he gripe about then?

Actually he's got his next little effort in the pre-production pipe-line. He's going to "expose" the american healthcare system.

Hopefully he'll piss off every doctor enough that no-one will treat him when he suffers his inevitable heart attack.

Considering the Fareinheit 9/11 mockumentary (if that's a documentary, I'm emperor of North America and everyone has to bow down and kiss my feet) and his idiocy with Bowling for Columbine, I have to say the best thing this guy can do to support Kerry is jump out in front of Kerry's limosine while it's moving and manage to not survive. Kerry would become a national hero after that and Bush wouldn't be able to beat him.

Biff Pileon has, so far, been on the ball about Moore.

That's what we call "win-win".

Yeah, I guess if Kerry wins Moore will have to shut up then huh? ;) Who would he gripe about then?
Well, unless you believe that a Kerry presidency would be perfect, why wouldn't Moore switch to complaining about Kerry? Michael Moore didn't just appear when Bush 2 was elected. He had been going after Clinton for the previous eight years. Moore doesn't usually support the Democrats (he hates Clinton) but in this case he believes that defeating Bush is that important.

Biff will you please calm down. You're hysterical. Think rationally. Moore doesn't hate everything.

Well, unless you believe that a Kerry presidency would be perfect, why wouldn't Moore switch to complaining about Kerry? Michael Moore didn't just appear when Bush 2 was elected. He had been going after Clinton for the previous eight years. Moore doesn't usually support the Democrats (he hates Clinton) but in this case he believes that defeating Bush is that important.

Biff will you please calm down. You're hysterical. Think rationally. Moore doesn't hate everything.

No, he doesn't hate everything. He obviously has a less than healthy relationship with Big Macs.

I have not seen where he went after Clinton though.

No, he doesn't hate everything. He obviously has a less than healthy relationship with Big Macs.

I have not seen where he went after Clinton though.
If you've seen Bowling For Columbine or read Stupid White Men (particularly the chapter "Democrats: DOA") you'll know. And that's just stuff he released when Bush was president, let alone the previous eight years.

He mainly blasts Clinton for the bombing of Kosovo and for being "too Republican" (i.e. cutting welfare, etc).

If you've seen Bowling For Columbine or read Stupid White Men (particularly the chapter "Democrats: DOA") you'll know. And that's just stuff he released when Bush was president, let alone the previous eight years.

He mainly blasts Clinton for the bombing of Kosovo and for being "too Republican" (i.e. cutting welfare, etc).

Yes....cutting welfare. Man, that program NEEDED to be cut. It was a trap that once people got on it, they could barely get off of it. We had families with 3 generations that knew nothing but welfare. No job, no job skills, no education. Even though they went to the same public schools that I did. I remember the kids in school that were on welfare. You just knew they were not going anywhere.

Bowling for Columbine was more an indictment of the 2nd amendment I think, but thats just me.

Considering who we're talking about, that's really a terrifying prospect.
No kidding! I'm prepared to gouge out my eyes if that happens! ;)

Considering the Fareinheit 9/11 mockumentary (if that's a documentary, I'm emperor of North America and everyone has to bow down and kiss my feet).
Thank goodness I agree with you because I have no idea where those feet have been. :p

Moore will be here in Florida with his film crews to "document" voting "irregularities." They keep going on about 2000 and ALL those people who were denied their vote. Yet every investigation turned up nothing. The civil rights commission even said there was NO voter disenfranchisement going on. Yet we still have Jesse jackson and his ilk running around saying "remember 2000."

I swear the whole country has gone insane. Ignorance is bliss and there are some very happy people out there.

Of course he would. He is a self-agrandising moron who sees himself as some sort of prophet. Those who follow him will one day see the emporer and his new clothes.
'Emporer'? is that some kind of retailer, as opposedto an Emperor? :sniper:

'Emporer'? is that some kind of retailer, as opposedto an Emperor? :sniper:

It's been a long day.....I am tired. :rolleyes:

Yes....cutting welfare. Man, that program NEEDED to be cut. It was a trap that once people got on it, they could barely get off of it. We had families with 3 generations that knew nothing but welfare. No job, no job skills, no education. Even though they went to the same public schools that I did. I remember the kids in school that were on welfare. You just knew they were not going anywhere.


Why am I not surprised. You have made the welfare claims before and were shown wrong and yet you repeat them. :rolleyes:

Mom did welfare for a year or two. She had no skills.

Outcome.

Mom has over 30 years in labor and delivery(she was able to do the night school with the evil drug called welfare took care of eating and what not). She has estimated to have been involved with over 40000 births and is an expert for legal cases involving birth lawsuits.

My sister graduted Magna Cum Laude from Berkeley and lives in Manhatten. She made enough to retire at 28 and does custom design on Broadway for a hobby.

I am a computer nerd who did computer security for Uncle Sam, was involved with researching computer virii when they first really started to happen. I am now the WAN engineer for a multi-national who traveled the world, well, until the shrub took office.

I also know of other families who had goverment assistence who turned out just fine.

So the argument you paint is rather ignorant.

Why am I not surprised. You have made the welfare claims before and were shown wrong and yet you repeat them. :rolleyes:

Mom did welfare for a year or two. She had no skills.

Outcome.

Mom has over 30 years in labor and delivery(she was able to do the night school with the evil drug called welfare took care of eating and what not). She has estimated to have been involved with over 40000 births and is an expert for legal cases involving birth lawsuits.

My sister graduted Magna Cum Laude from Berkeley and lives in Manhatten. She made enough to retire at 28 and does custom design on Broadway for a hobby.

I am a computer nerd who did computer security for Uncle Sam, was involved with researching computer virii when they first really started to happen. I am now the WAN engineer for a multi-national who traveled the world, well, until the shrub took office.

I also know of other families who had goverment assistence who turned out just fine.

So the argument you paint is rather ignorant.


There are ALWAYS exceptions, but overall the program was a mess. Maybe you should have travelled into the countryside to see what it did.

Actually he's got his next little effort in the pre-production pipe-line. He's going to "expose" the american healthcare system.

Hopefully he'll piss off every doctor enough that no-one will treat him when he suffers his inevitable heart attack.
He won't expose John Edwards' part in making malpractice fees atronomical, or his pat in suing based on lies and junk science. Moore is a partisan hack, a liar, and a role model for the left.

He won't expose John Edwards' part in making malpractice fees atronomical, or his pat in suing based on lies and junk science. Moore is a partisan hack, a liar, and a role model for the left.

you guys are making me love him even before watching something of him.
ah, friday they will show one of his documentaries on italian national TV, i'll see...

Cheers

He won't expose John Edwards' part in making malpractice fees atronomical, or his pat in suing based on lies and junk science. Moore is a partisan hack, a liar, and a role model for the left.

No, lawyers have no place in this film. It's more like look how we fucked up by not having hillary care/see how intelligent John kerry's plan is. So whoever wins tomorrow it has political legs.

Sort of multipurpose agitprop really.

Mr Moore, the director of the documentary Fahrenheit 9/11, said 1,200 professional and amateur videographers would descend on polling stations in Florida and Ohio
So how many actors has he hired to act out scenes making it look like minorities are being turned away, intimidated, hung, stabbed, shot?

I'm deeply anti-Bush in the extreme, but I realise that having scruffy fat nutcases like Michael Moore screaming about how much they hate him is damaging our cause (by 'our' I mean those that want a sensible candidate in office - not specifically Democrat, or specifically anyone else, though I'm a Badnarik supporter myself) rather than his.


Most pro Bushers that try to hide their anti democrat propaganda start like this "I'm deeply anti Bush.." and then continue to break down the democrats and neutrals like Moore.

Prove you are anti Bush! :rolleyes: Instead of being so busted! It so obvious that you are a anti democrat. :p

Most pro Bushers that try to hide their anti democrat propaganda start like this "I'm deeply anti Bush.." and then continue to break down the democrats and neutrals like Moore.

Prove you are anti Bush! :rolleyes: Instead of being so busted! It so obvious that you are a anti democrat. :p

Well many republicans hate micheal savage, it's the same thing.

There are ALWAYS exceptions, but overall the program was a mess. Maybe you should have travelled into the countryside to see what it did.

Sorry buddy,

Grandson of a farmer and I still have a few hick relatives(Missouri, Kentucky, Alabama).

Some of them are useless and they aren't even on welfare.

Most pro Bushers that try to hide their anti democrat propaganda start like this "I'm deeply anti Bush.." and then continue to break down the democrats and neutrals like Moore.

Prove you are anti Bush! :rolleyes: Instead of being so busted! It so obvious that you are a anti democrat. :p

I'm British, and for the last four years I've seen my nation run by proxy by George Bush thanks to Tony Blair. I liked Britain back when it was a real country, now we bow to Bush and fence off thousands of our own people whenever he comes to visit. We are now a target for terrorists due to our Prime Minister's mindless support of Bush's thinly-veiled crusade against the Arab people. I feel like Blair and Bush's friendship has resulted in the selling of my country from right under our noses.

That is George Bush's fault. And Blair's. (I'm anti-Blair, too).

The world is now running scared of terrorists because George Bush thinks the way to stop a massive portion of the population from hating Americans is to blow up and persecute their relatives. For every innocent Arab that is killed as a result of American action in Iraq, that's a whole family of Arabs with an excuse to hate America. He has alienated whole countries by deposing leaders that, while brutal, managed to keep some sort of order and kept you safe on the streets provided you toed the line. Iraq and Afghanistan have both been invaded and their leadership removed and left in total chaos.

That is George Bush's fault.

Americans in their own country are now denied the right to privacy, and their activities can now be monitored 24 hours a day all in the name of 'national security', which amounts to little more than a CIA private army being allowed to march off with anything they like from your house and take it apart with a sledgehammer looking for 'terrorist materials' for the sake of one message posted on a messageboard. Perfectly ordinary Americans of Arabic descent are now terror suspects based on nationality or faith alone.

That is George Bush's fault.

I could list many, many more. (and don't give me that 'Kerry voted for the Patriot Act and the Iraq war too' bullshit, I told you before, I'm a Badnarik supporter, who is both anti-Patriot Act and anti-Iraq War).

Also, I'm not bashing Democrats at all, as Moore is (supposedly) a neutral - although his criticism of Clinton was he was 'too Republican', which seems to hint strongly at where Moore's politics lie (no pun intended). Just this time round he's on the Democrat side and, being almost as big a liar as Bush is, does not make a very good mascot for the Democrat cause - I think he's the perfect guy for Bush to point at and say "Do you really want to be like this guy?".

The closest comparison I can find is Abu Hamza al-Masri - what better person for anyone anti-Muslim to point to as the 'Face of Islam' than a hook-handed, one-eyed lunatic ranting against the West? In a similar vein, Michael Moore is ideal for the Republicans to point at as the 'Face of the Democrats' - a fat, ranting, self-obsessed liar. I'm not anti-Democrat - I don't like John Kerry, but I'm rooting for him in this year's election as Badnarik has no chance and I dislike George Bush even more. Kerry (in terms of foreign policy) is far too similar to Bush for me, but I prefer the Democrat cause and I trust him to be better with his internal policy than Bush has been, So I'm still hoping to see him kick Bush back to Crawford tomorrow - It won't be my ideal outcome, but it will be better than 4 More Years of George Dubya.

Is that enough proof?