NationStates Jolt Archive

All this time we expected the October surprise that hurts Kerry to be proof that Osama bin Laden had been captured or killed. Instead, the October surprise that hurt Kerry was proof that Osama bin Laden had not been captured or killed.

edit: What I can't figure out is why the Osama tape hurt Kerry

How interesting. Although this fact should have hurt Bush it highlighted merits in hardline militarism instead by demonstrating the intentions of the enemy. Many people believe Bush represents a war president, and, now with that back in positive focus, he may see some boosts. I am not confident either he nor Kerry will correctly carry out the war effort but hope they do, as wallowing in nostalgia for Clintonian illusions will get us nowhere. It is time to build a major alliance with third world nations much like the USSR did and reverse older damage done during the cold war. This means crushing opponents of the likes of Osama Bin Laden and providing redemption for governments willing to work together with us.

All this time we expected the October surprise that hurts Kerry to be proof that Osama bin Laden had been captured or killed. Instead, the October surprise that hurt Kerry was proof that Osama bin Laden had not been captured or killed.

I wonder how long they've been holding that tape for release?

<we need to> reverse older damage done during the cold war. This means crushing opponents of the likes of Osama Bin Laden and providing redemption for governments willing to work together with us.

so, what you're saying is that the best way to cure the ills of the cold war is to replay the cold war.

so, what you're saying is that the best way to cure the ills of the cold war is to replay the cold war.

Yes. In a less isolationist, less losing-side fashion.

eminem's video actually kind of predicted this version of the october surprise.

All this time we expected the October surprise that hurts Kerry to be proof that Osama bin Laden had been captured or killed. Instead, the October surprise that hurt Kerry was proof that Osama bin Laden had not been captured or killed.Hehheh. Apt summary. I don't think it should have hurt Kerry at all - but at least most people you talk to are going "Osama has no effect on who I'm going to vote for" - nice that they're saying that even if not everyone's thinking it.

so, what you're saying is that the best way to cure the ills of the cold war is to replay the cold war.
No, that's not why there was a cold war. There was a cold war because there were two rival nuclear-armed superpowers with a conflict of interests in Europe and Korea.

I wonder how long they've been holding that tape for release?
It was al-Jazeera that first played it. Unless they are in league with the US White House, I don't think there are any grounds for a conspiracy theory.

I don't know...it won't affect me as I've already voted (early by mail) :p

Some people (probably hardcore democrats) say that the tape HELPS Kerry by showing that HEY, America's No. 1 enemy is still hanging around four years after we promised to kick his ass. Hm. People will probably read what they want into it anyway.

It doesn't hurt Senator Kerry. In fact, it underscores much of his claims that President Bush chose the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. The simple fact is that George Bush is the best friend the middle-eastern terror organizations ever had; he is the poster-boy for uncontrolled, unchecked American militarism---what President Eisenhower referred summarily to as "The Military Industrial Complex."

Doubt the accuracy of what I suggest? Explain why our Army first sought to protect the Iraqi Oil Ministry before securing our supply lines and rear echelon forces PRIOR to completing operations in and around Baghdad and Faluja. Then explain why the 377 tons of high explosives disappeared AFTER being secured by American forces (the news footage has been properly authenticated as post-invasion, folx. Die-hard, cross-bearing, flag-draped true-believer Bushophiles need not deny this.)

It was al-Jazeera that first played it. Unless they are in league with the US White House, I don't think there are any grounds for a conspiracy theory.

I personally don't suspect conspiracy in the case of al-Jazeera, either... but I am far from convinced that there was no conspiracy between Bush and bin Laden.

It is a matter of public record (even if nobody talks about it) that Osama and Bush have direct business links. It is a matter of public record that, the day AFTER 9/11, Bush was in New York in business meetings with the bin Laden family. It is a matter of public record that, during the flight embargo directly after 9/11, at least ONE flight was allowed, and it was a flight to Saudi Arabia, containing members of bin Laden's family.

It WOULD be in Osama's favour for Bush to win the election, both financially, and because, as Kerry pointed out, Bush has entirely diverted attention AWAY from bin Laden... so I am not above suspicion of some degree of political collusion between the incumbent and his business partner.

Oh - and if you don't believe me... if you think it's just too much 'conspiracy theory' stuff... try google searching some of these facts... they are media reported facts. Wile you're at it, try googling how many politicians were warned NOT to make commercial flights on and around 9/11.

Now, THERE is some real fodder for conspiracy.

Well, it seems the republicans have been threatening you to vote for them in this election. it was Herodotus who said:

"Have a stout heart and face the day bravely, or else you may not live at all"

or something. Anyway if you fear a terrorist attack then the terrorists are winning the war. Which i think is cast iron proof why bush is not the candidate with the greatest anti terrorist stuff. He is actively encouraging the terrorist weapon, which is terror. I rest my case. Now vote democrat!

It doesn't hurt Senator Kerry. In fact, it underscores much of his claims that President Bush chose the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I'm still not clear on what Kerry would've done differently and how much of this is just sour-grapes mixed with a little hindsight...

The simple fact is that George Bush is the best friend the middle-eastern terror organizations ever had; he is the poster-boy for uncontrolled, unchecked American militarism---what President Eisenhower referred summarily to as "The Military Industrial Complex."

I "doubt the accuracy of what I you suggest"

Doubt the accuracy of what I suggest? Yes.

Explain why our Army first sought to protect the Iraqi Oil Ministry before securing our supply lines and rear echelon forces PRIOR to completing operations in and around Baghdad and Faluja. Then explain why the 377 tons of high explosives disappeared AFTER being secured by American forces (the news footage has been properly authenticated as post-invasion, folx. Die-hard, cross-bearing, flag-draped true-believer Bushophiles need not deny this.)

I have my serious doubts about this story. First there's the source. CBS and the New York Times. Not exactly the models of realiable reporting. SEcond there's the fact that it was in Kerry's speeches before it was "verified" as you suggest it has been. This is smarter leadership? Lastly, it's the fact that you crazed, "I wanna fight dem bleeding liberals/fascist-righter" nuts are touting it as the best and most accurate thing to hit "60 minutes" since...Oh wait, it might actually be the most accurate thing to have hit "60 minutes". And that's if it isn't even true...:rolleyes:

It is time to build a major alliance with third world nations much like the USSR did and reverse older damage done during the cold war. This means crushing opponents of the likes of Osama Bin Laden and providing redemption for governments willing to work together with us.

"Crushing opponents of the the likes of Osama Bin Laden", so what you are saying here is that we should crush Osama Bin Laden's opponents - people like George Bush, yes?