NationStates Jolt Archive

Dont think anyone has posted this on this forum...

NBC NEWS TRANSLATION OF AL JAZEERA - BIN LADEN BROADCAST
Bin Laden Translation Al Jezeera 4 pm NY broadcast

Open: I direct my speech to the American people to the best way to avoid another conflict. (OBL)

Newsreader: A new message from Bin Laden to the American people about the reasons and resulats of the 9/11 attacks.

Newsreader 2: The head of AL Qaeda says the continuation of us policy will lead to the repetition of what happened.

Male presenter: The head of AL Qaeda organization directed a message to the American people and this video and audio apearence in this tape which Jezeera required for the first time for two years. In the beginning of his message, he spoke about the reasons why they chose the US to execute 9/11..

OBL: You American people, my speech to you is the best way to avoid another conflict about the war and its reasons and results. I am telling you security is an important pillar of human life. And free people don’t let go of their security contrary to Bush’s claims that we hate freedom. He should tell us why we didn’t hit Sweden for instance. Its known that those who hate freedom don’t have dignified souls.like the 19 who were blessed. But we fought you because we are free people, we don’t sleep on our oppression. We want to regain the freedom of our Muslim nation as you spill our security, we spill your security.

Female presenter: Bin Laden spoke for the first time about the main reasons he thought of executing Sept 11 attacks, confirming that the Israeli operation in Lebanon was the first incident where he thought of it.

OBL: I am so surprised by you. Although we are in the fourth year after the events of sept 11, Bush is still practicing distortion and misleading on you, and obscuring the main reasons and therefore the reasons are still existing to repeat what happened before. I will tell you the reasons behind theses incidents.

I will be honest with you on the moment when the decision was taken to understand. We never thought of hitting the towers. But after we were so fed up, and we saw the oppression of the American Israeli coalition on our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind and the incidents that really touched me directly goes back to 1982 and the following incidents. When the US permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon with the assistance of the 6th fleet. In these hard moments, it occurred to me so many meanings I cant explain but it resulted in a general feeling of rejecting oppression and gave me a hard determination to punish the oppressors. While I was looking at the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it came to my mind to punish the oppressor the same way and destroy towers in the US to get a taste of what they tasted, and quit killing our children and women.

Male presenter: Bin Laden considered in his message that the results of Sept 11 were successful in his opinion and as a reason of that, he said that the similarity between the administration of Bush the father and the arab regimes said Bush learned so much from them during his visits.

OBL: We didn’t find difficulty dealing with Bush and his administration due to the similarity of his regime and the regims in our countries. Whish half of them are ruled by military and the other half by sons of kings and presidents and our experience with them is long. Both parties are arrogant and stubborn and the greediness and taking money without right and that similarity appeared during the visits of Bush to the region while people from our side were impressed by the US and hoped that these visits would influence our countries. Here he is being influenced by these regimes, Royal and military. And was feeling jealous they were staying for decades in power stealing the nations finances without anybody overseeing them. So he transferred the oppression of freedom and tyranny to his son and they call it th e Patriot Law to fight terrorism. He was bright in putting his sons as governors in states and he didn’t forget to transfer his experience from the rulers of our region to Florida to falsify elections to benefit from it in critical times.

Female Presenter: Bin Laden considered the way Bush dealt with the first moments of Sept. 11, giving a good chance to the executors of Sept. 11 to complete it.

OBL: We agreed with Mohamed Atta, god bless him, to execute the whole operation in 20 minutes. Before Bush and his administration would pay attention and we never thought that the high commander of the US armies would leave 50 thousand of his citizens in both towers to face the horrors by themselves when they most needed him because it seemed to distract his attention from listening to the girl telling him about her goat butting was more important than paying attention to airplanes butting the towers which gave us three times the time to execute the operation thank god.

Male presenter: the final part of the message is that the security of the Americans depends on the policy that they execute despite the winner of the elections.

OBL: Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or Al Qaeda. Your security is in your hands. Each state that doenst mess with our security has automatically secured their security.

Female Presenter: In Bin Laden’s message he approached other points. He pointed to the contradiction which considers oppression and killing of innocents a legal act. They formed an international law as bush the father did with the children of iraq according to bin laden. Bin Laden pointed to the millions of pounds of explosives dropped on Iraqi children as bush his son had done, as he said to remove an old agent and install a new agent to help instealing the oil of iraq. And bin laden said the events of 9/11 came as an answer to this oppression and said that if the answer to this oppression is considered bad terror, then we need to do it. And he stressed that he wants to deliver this message to the Americans in words and in deeds since the 9/11 events. He reminded Americans of a few warning messages through various news media like Time Magazine and CNN and other Arab and correspondents since 1996. He warned them of the conswquences of their countries policies. He talked abou t the damage Sept 11 caused the US economy and that it cost close to a trillion dollars. He talked about President Bush and that the emergency law requires more money.

Yea, that's a guy I would like to get my hands on. Yea, I'd free him. From his mortal coil, with my bare hands.

Yea, that's a guy I would like to get my hands on. Yea, I'd free him. From his mortal coil, with my bare hands.

Yeah, he's so evil. Damn him for wanting to save his people. Damn him for trying to level the playing field.

Yeah, he's so evil. Damn him for wanting to save his people. Damn him for trying to level the playing field.
I'd imagine he could do a much better job trying to help his people if he had used his billions of dollars towards financing good projects rather than becoming a terrorist...

Yea, that's a guy I would like to get my hands on. Yea, I'd free him. From his mortal coil, with my bare hands.

Batman would like to have a few words with you.

I'd imagine he could do a much better job trying to help his people if he had used his billions of dollars towards financing good projects rather than becoming a terrorist...

You'd imagine wrong. America started the conflict, and while america keeps at it with Iraq, etc, they are getting more and more support. Good works help some people, but they are still at the mercy of being killed. Terrorism costs america, both by damage and having to protect themselves. Then its harder for them to invade other countries.

You'd imagine wrong. America started the conflict, and while america keeps at it with Iraq, etc, they are getting more and more support. Good works help some people, but they are still at the mercy of being killed. Terrorism costs america, both by damage and having to protect themselves. Then its harder for them to invade other countries.
How has America started the conflict? By supporting Israel? :rolleyes: Terrorism has not advanced the cause of the Arabic people except by putting in motion the removal of two tyrannical regimes.

How has America started the conflict? By supporting Israel? :rolleyes: Terrorism has not advanced the cause of the Arabic people except by putting in motion the removal of two tyrannical regimes.

And those acts have caused america to become one of the most hated nations in the world, its fighting a losing war, and al-qaeda is getting support like never before.

And those acts have caused america to become one of the most hated nations in the world, its fighting a losing war, and al-qaeda is getting support like never before.
America already was one of the top two most hated nations in the world, the other being Israel, and we have been for quite some time now. Even back in the Cold War this was true, such as in the 1980s, when there was mass protests in Europe over the stationing of missiles and France trying to be important by not allowing US bombers to fly over their airspace. And neither do I think we're fighting a losing war, any more than Vietnam was a losing war. Attrition isn't nice, but when the kill ratios are so high in our favor, we're not losing, even though the media and others might like to paint it that way.

America already was one of the top two most hated nations in the world, the other being Israel, and we have been for quite some time now. Even back in the Cold War this was true, such as in the 1980s, when there was mass protests in Europe over the stationing of missiles and France trying to be important by not allowing US bombers to fly over their airspace. And neither do I think we're fighting a losing war, any more than Vietnam was a losing war. Attrition isn't nice, but when the kill ratios are so high in our favor, we're not losing, even though the media and others might like to paint it that way.

The people feel we are losing the war, and that means we are. We were one of the most hated nations in the world, but international approval rates nose-dived after clinton. It went from bad to horrible.

When the people have little to no trust in your government, and the government has little support elsewhere, that government is losing.

After reading that, I now have a stronger respect for Bin Laden.

The people feel we are losing the war, and that means we are. We were one of the most hated nations in the world, but international approval rates nose-dived after clinton. It went from bad to horrible.

When the people have little to no trust in your government, and the government has little support elsewhere, that government is losing.
It means we're losing the war at home, not losing the actual war.

I have to say that have more respect for him now, too. He was actually appealing to the American people to stop the war. We never once did that in Iraq or Afghanistan.

This also puts to rest the conservative argument that we are fighting a bunch of uneducated, religious zeolots who hate freedom.

If you'd read his speeches more often, you'd notice that Al Qaeda and the Arabic Jihad do have a noble underlying cause. They do not fight for their gain, but to protect themselves, their culture, their religion and their countries and to free themselves from oppressive regimnes that exploit the people. Terrorism on the scale of 9/11 is the only way for them to be heard and to make the Americans listen to their requests, which are perfectly reasonable.

Here's the copy of his April 2004 speech to Europeans:


Excerpts from 'Bin Laden' tape

Translation provided by Reuters
Thursday April 15, 2004

This is a message to our neighbours north of the Mediterranean Sea with a proposal for a truce in response to the positive reactions which emerged there.

What happened on September 11 and March 11 are your goods returned to you, so that you know security is a necessity for all and we do not accept that you monopolise it for yourselves, and knowledgeable nations will not accept that their leaders risk their security.

Be aware that if you describe us and our actions as terrorism, then you should describe yourselves and your actions that way as well.

Our actions come in response to your actions of destroying and killing our people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. It is enough to witness the event that shocked the world, the killing of the elderly, wheelchair-bound Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, God have mercy on him, and we pledge to God to take revenge on America, God willing.

Under what grace are your victims innocent and ours dust, and under which doctrine is your blood blood and our blood water? Reciprocation is just, and he who starts is more unjust.

As for your leaders, and those who adopt their strategy, who insist on ignoring the real problem of the occupation of all of Palestine and who exaggerate in lying and denying our right to defend ourselves and to resist, they have no self-respect and belittle the faith and minds of people.

Their fallacy increases the shedding of your blood instead of stemming it. A review of the deaths in our land and your land reveal an important truth which is that there is injustice done to both us and you by your leaders who send your sons, despite your objections, to our land to kill and be killed.

It is in the interest of both parties not to give a chance to those who shed the blood of nations for their limited personal interest and obedience to the gang of the White House.

This war earns millions of dollars for big companies, whether those who manufacture weapons or those involved in reconstruction, such as Halliburton and its sisters and daughters.

And it becomes very clear who benefits from igniting the fires of this war and bloodshed: it is the traders of war, the bloodsuckers who run the policy of the world from behind a curtain.

President [George W] Bush and leaders in his sphere, big media institutions, and the United Nations, which entrenches the relationship between the veto masters and the General Assembly slaves, are all instruments in deceiving and abusing people.

All of them are a fatal danger to the world, and the Zionist lobby is their most dangerous and difficult member, and we insist, God willing, on continuing to fight them.

Based on this, and to deprive war traders of opportunities, and in response to the positive reactions reflected in recent events and public polls showing that most European people want a truce, I urge the faithful, especially scholars, clerics and traders, to establish a permanent committee to build awareness among Europeans of the justice of our causes, foremost Palestine, and make use of the vast media resources.

I offer a truce to them [Europe] with a commitment to stop operations against any state which vows to stop attacking Muslims or interfere in their affairs, including [participating] in the American conspiracy against the wider Muslim world.

This first truce can be renewed upon expiry and the establishment of a new government agreed upon by both parties. And the announcement of the truce starts with the withdrawal of the last soldier from our land, and the door is open for three months from the date of the announcement of this statement.

Whoever rejects this truce and wants war, we are its [war's] sons, and whoever wants this truce, here we bring it. Stop shedding our blood to save your own, and the solution to this simple but complex equation is in your hands.

You know matters will escalate the more you delay, and then do not blame us, but blame yourselves. Rational people do not risk their security, money and sons to appease the White House liar.

The killing of Russians came after their invasion of Afghanistan and Chechnya, and the killing of Europeans came after their invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

The killing of Americans on the day of New York came after their support of the Jews in Palestine and their invasion of the Arabian peninsula, and their killing in Somalia came after they invaded it in an operation to "restore hope", so we returned them without hope, thank God.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1192430,00.html

Ok, he MAY be trying to protect himself and his people, but that still doesn't erase the fact that he killed 3,000 people, indirectly. And thus he must be punished for it.

Ok, he MAY be trying to protect himself and his people, but that still doesn't erase the fact that he killed 3,000 people, indirectly. And thus he must be punished for it.
And the U.S. killed tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people directly and indirectly and must be punished for it.

We could secure so much more safety for America by relinquishing our support for israel. Can they not survive on their own? What are they doing with all the money we give them? Would that money be better spent helping America? Perhaps if Israel had less money for weapons they would try harder to find peaceful means to stop their conflict.

After reading that, I now have a stronger respect for Bin Laden.

I think I understand what you're saying. I'm surprised they even let us hear this though, you know? Now we're forced to understand... oh wait, I forgot... we're American, Understanding isn't supposed to be one of our strong points.

But people, seriously, all he's saying is "you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone"

That sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me. It would probably cost a whole helluva lot less too.

Half of you people make me sick. You have found respect for him? Apparently his sole motivation is that we help Israel survive, and oh yes that we went to Saudi with the invitation of their government to protect them from Saddam. Isn't it against the Q'ran for arabs to war against arabs? Like Saddam did? Isn't it against the Q'ran to war against Jews? Like Hammas, who had totally marginalized the lebonese government prior to the invasion, did?

Buy a clue! Osama is a murderous hypocritical heretic! Bush's own crimes do nothing to alleviate Osama's guilt!

But people, seriously, all he's saying is "you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone"

That sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me. It would probably cost a whole helluva lot less too.

Nod ... works for me, man. I have no issue with Bin Laden or with Muslims and will let them be them as long as they let me be me and we'll all get along great!

Unfortunately, the Christians in power seem to have forgotten what forgiveness is all about and choose, instead, to wipe out anyone and everyone who opposes them. It all comes down to that "we will not negotiate with terrorists" stance that people seem unwilling to bend on.

We killed a bunch of Bin Laden's people, Bin Laden killed a bunch of our people, so we go now and kill even more of Bin Laden's people ... when does the cycle end? Who is going to stand up and say, "I will fight no more, forever!"

I sure wish there was a way for me to get in touch with Bin Laden himself.

*raises his hand*

Who started this cycle and when? I cant think of us doing anything bad besides supporting Israel until pretty recently. Actually, I cant think of anything before September 11th, 2001. And he said that hes been thinking about this since the 80's. What did we do then?

Half of you people make me sick. You have found respect for him? Apparently his sole motivation is that we help Israel survive, and oh yes that we went to Saudi with the invitation of their government to protect them from Saddam. Isn't it against the Q'ran for arabs to war against arabs? Like Saddam did? Isn't it against the Q'ran to war against Jews? Like Hammas, who had totally marginalized the lebonese government prior to the invasion, did?

Buy a clue! Osama is a murderous hypocritical heretic! Bush's own crimes do nothing to alleviate Osama's guilt!


It IS so much easier to label people as murderous hypocritical heretics than to even bother attempting to see their PoV. By avoiding trying to understand what an enemy wants..you limit the tactics you can use against them to end the conflict one way or another. Its also against the bible to kill people....EVER. Does that make the christians in the military whove killed people murderous hypocritical heretics? People arent perfect. Deal.

Nod ... works for me, man. I have no issue with Bin Laden or with Muslims and will let them be them as long as they let me be me and we'll all get along great!

Unfortunately, the Christians in power seem to have forgotten what forgiveness is all about and choose, instead, to wipe out anyone and everyone who opposes them. It all comes down to that "we will not negotiate with terrorists" stance that people seem unwilling to bend on.

We killed a bunch of Bin Laden's people, Bin Laden killed a bunch of our people, so we go now and kill even more of Bin Laden's people ... when does the cycle end? Who is going to stand up and say, "I will fight no more, forever!"

I sure wish there was a way for me to get in touch with Bin Laden himself.

Oh, blame Christianity... that'll be productive. After all, 500 years ago they were about as bad as... Islam... is today.

Chief Joseph. He said it already. So... where's his legacy? The Trail of Tears.

I wish I could get in touch with Bin Ladin too... I could really use the reward money!

Oh, blame Christianity... that'll be productive. After all, 500 years ago they were about as bad as... Islam... is today.

What do you mean "500 years ago" ... Christianity is as bad today as it has ever been ... worse in some cases!

Chief Joseph. He said it already. So... where's his legacy? The Trail of Tears.

Mmkay .... Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt) was Nez Pierce tribe of Oregon ... not involved in the Trail of Tears. I guess your ignorance of history is global. At least you're consistent.

I wish I could get in touch with Bin Ladin too... I could really use the reward money!

Oh yeah ... nothin' like showing those true Euro-American greed colors that we get bombed for in the first place. Ass.

So Osama Bin Laden is being more honest and direct to the American people than either Bush or Kerry?

...

Somebody stop the world, I wanna get off.

holy sh*t
osama is a blood thirst *sshole
anyone who agrees with him deserves to go to hell with him
say hello to hitler b*tch
what have christians done recently?
I don't see any holy wars since the crusades b*itch


osamma__________me
:eek: - - - - - :mp5:

What do you mean "500 years ago" ... Christianity is as bad today as it has ever been ... worse in some cases!

Oh, really? Source? Christianity is as bad today as the Inquisition and the Crusades? Christianity is as bad today as Islam is? Or worse? Source?

Mmkay .... Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt) was Nez Pierce tribe of Oregon ... not involved in the Trail of Tears. I guess your ignorance of history is global. At least you're consistent.

Nope, it's not. I stand corrected on that point... only.

Oh yeah ... nothin' like showing those true Euro-American greed colors that we get bombed for in the first place. Ass.

So now we got bombed for turning in criminals for rewards? I thought we got bombed for helping Israel defend herself? Which is it, Osama-lover?

Some of you actually think that if we just pulled out of the Middle East that everything would be peaches and cream? We leave him alone, he'll leave us alone?
I've got some prime ocean front property in Kansas I'd like to see you guys too.

holy sh*t
osama is a blood thirst *sshole
anyone who agrees with him deserves to go to hell with him
say hello to hitler b*tch
what have christians done recently?
I don't see any holy wars since the crusades b*itch


osamma__________me
:eek: - - - - - :mp5:

And we're not fighting a holy war now? How many times have you heard the Bush admin. claim that God is on our side...

Better yet... "Our God is bigger than your God..."

Oh, really? Source? Christianity is as bad today as the Inquisition and the Crusades? Christianity is as bad today as Islam is? Or worse? Source?

Hmmmm .... Osama and company bomb the WTC. Okie dokie ... fine by me.

Does America, as a predominantly Christian nation, remember that forgiveness is the way of Jesus and that we should forgive Bin Laden and try to help others understand him and help ease his suffering (whether perceived or not)?

Newp ... we see brown people who don't follow our ways ... so we bomb the hell out of them and hope for genocide.

Good enough example of the modern Christian way? I've got at least 100 more.


So now we got bombed for turning in criminals for rewards? I thought we got bombed for helping Israel defend herself? Which is it, Osama-lover?

I believe greed was one of the points specified ... let's go back and re-read, shall we?

Some of you actually think that if we just pulled out of the Middle East that everything would be peaches and cream? We leave him alone, he'll leave us alone?
I've got some prime ocean front property in Kansas I'd like to see you guys too.

Seriously? I've heard there's awesome breaks there in the summer if I ever wanted to take up surfing!

...

When are you gonna get a clue and realize that not everything Big Brother Bush tells you is true? There are more ways to look at things than one, and black-and-white sure as hell won't cut it.

The perfect American. Live your life in hate.

Seriously? I've heard there's awesome breaks there in the summer if I ever wanted to take up surfing!

...

When are you gonna get a clue and realize that not everything Big Brother Bush tells you is true? There are more ways to look at things than one, and black-and-white sure as hell won't cut it.

The perfect American. Live your life in hate.
I'm not basing my opinion on what Big Brother Bush is telling me. I think Osama's full of shit and don't believe a word of it. That's my opinion, and I didn't have to phone the Whitehouse before I posted it.

Hmmmm .... Osama and company bomb the WTC. Okie dokie ... fine by me.

Does America, as a predominantly Christian nation, remember that forgiveness is the way of Jesus and that we should forgive Bin Laden and try to help others understand him and help ease his suffering (whether perceived or not)?

Newp ... we see brown people who don't follow our ways ... so we bomb the hell out of them and hope for genocide.

Good enough example of the modern Christian way? I've got at least 100 more.

I believe greed was one of the points specified ... let's go back and re-read, shall we?

OK now let me see if I can follow your "reasoning"...

America, a secular nation with a prominent christian population, did not simply turn the other cheek on 9/11, and therefor Christianity is worse today than it was in the Dark Ages. Am I following you correctly?

And so we are hoping to completely destroy all "brown" people because they do not fall down and obey us, huh? I guess that explains Bush's popular "Cure AIDS - Nuke Africa" plan, huh?

And I did read back. Osama's hatred of America was inspired by our support for Israel, specifically when they invaded Lebanon to go after Hammas, who had basically taken over for the purpose of having a staging ground to destroy Israel - that genocide you mentioned? Our "greed" had little if anything to do with it (let's look at the standard of living gap. rich/poor, in Kuwait and the UAE, compared to the USA and Israel, shall we?) It had far more to do with protecting an ally from people determined to destroy it, did I mention in violation of the teachings of the Q'ran?

After reading that, I now have a stronger respect for Bin Laden.

Well, any one who really bought that "They hate freedom and they want to kill us all for what we believe in" garbage were idiots. They probably will never get it! Then again why should they? After all they also believe "God" is on their side! :rolleyes:

And so we are hoping to completely destroy all "brown" people because they do not fall down and obey us, huh?

Seems like the plan ... did it to the American Indian and now that we're pretty much all gone through war or interbreeding, now it's time to "Git 'er done" on them filthy, filthy, Ay-rabs.

The US has never been good to people of color. Deal with it and strive to make it better. Don't just blindly follow it and make retorts about how you'd love to collect an illegal bounty.

lets think about this rationally for just a few seconds...America started it by becoming the best economy in the world by having it's citizens work hard to make their money, spend it how they so choose, and enjoy basic freedoms. We help other nations in need, and we dont take any s**t from anybody. The gutless pukes like Osama bin Laden who fly airplanes into buildings and kill innocent civilians do not deserve to live. They, instead of fighting a war like an army with courage, blow up buildings and buses. There is a reason for that though...they simply cannot stand toe to toe with our army--the most powerful army in the world. Attacking Afghanistan and Iraq sent a message--those who help those who hurt America will be taken down, hard and fast. If terrorists blow up a building, we take down their country. They kidnap innocent people, they will recieve no mercy. We Americans need to stop worrying about what the rest of the world is thinking. What are they going to do? Bash the USA on message-boards like these? So come on, step up and take a shot at the title.

There is a reason for that though...they simply cannot stand toe to toe with our army--the most powerful army in the world.

BUHAWAWAWAWAWAW!!!!!

This "most powerful army in the world" hasn't even been able to take down the one guy who was the primary objective in the "War on Terror".

We true Americans have a word for that: INEPT!

I suggest never bragging on the US Military ever again.

Oh ... and before you even try it ... I am a decorated combat veteran.

Seems like the plan ... did it to the American Indian and now that we're pretty much all gone through war or interbreeding, now it's time to "Git 'er done" on them filthy, filthy, Ay-rabs.

The US has never been good to people of color. Deal with it and strive to make it better. Don't just blindly follow it and make retorts about how you'd love to collect an illegal bounty.

Firstly, Bin Laden murdered nearly 3000 people on US soil, so why on earth do you call it "an illegal bounty"?

Secondly, find me one nation with good race relations history? Xenophobia is deeply rooted in the human psyche, not just the american psyche.

Third and finally, while slavery and western expansion could be called genocidal events in US history, what have we done lately? Will you complain about intermarrying with Native Americans, as if we were doing it in rape camps? Can you really point to any instance today where we are trying to whipe out any racial group? Hey! I'm not talking about pursuing criminal groups with a dominant racial makeup, I am talking about campaigns of genocide. Name one, by the USA, in the modern day?

BUHAWAWAWAWAWAW!!!!!

This "most powerful army in the world" hasn't even been able to take down the one guy who was the primary objective in the "War on Terror".

We true Americans have a word for that: INEPT!

I suggest never bragging on the US Military ever again.

Oh ... and before you even try it ... I am a decorated combat veteran.


According to one of the ground troops in my area who just got back from iraq they "had a lot of fun" there, and several of them have nearly been sent back from self injury, dicking around with explosives and pvc pipe.

BUHAWAWAWAWAWAW!!!!!

This "most powerful army in the world" hasn't even been able to take down the one guy who was the primary objective in the "War on Terror".

We true Americans have a word for that: INEPT!

I suggest never bragging on the US Military ever again.

Oh ... and before you even try it ... I am a decorated combat veteran.
That suggests we are bringing our entire weight to bear on the objective of capturing Osama, which isn't true. Its obvious that the majority of our forces are in Iraq right now, so while we might be paying lip service to capturing OBL, if you think that we've failed despite bringing all our efforts, thus proving that we aren't the most powerful army in the world, you are mistaken.

According to one of the ground troops in my area who just got back from iraq they "had a lot of fun" there, and several of them have nearly been sent back from self injury, dicking around with explosives and pvc pipe.

Is pvc dangerous without explosives? And if with, wtf were they doing messing around with pipe bombs?

*wonders what kind of vets Freoria knows who had fun in Iraq with pipe bombs* :confused:

Firstly, Bin Laden murdered nearly 3000 people on US soil, so why on earth do you call it "an illegal bounty"?

Because it spits in the face of due process. The bounty on Bin Laden is "Dead or Alive". One cannot give a dead man a fair trial, now can they?

Third and finally, while slavery and western expansion could be called genocidal events in US history, what have we done lately?

Do you just have blinders on to what our carpet bombing with depleted uranium does? Do you ignore every child who starves or cannot get proper medical attention due to a US embargo for something that happened 85 years ago? We are an economic super-power and, yet, we give our money to Bill Gates and Halliburton. Why?

How come we'll step in with chest out and guns ablazin' when one African nation is oppressing another or when one Arabic nation is attacking another, but turn a blind eye when it comes to, say, the occupation of Ireland?

I'll tell you why: Because the US will not step in and kill WHITE people. If the enemy is brown, the US will use all the force at its disposal. The only times they've done it is to gain their independance or when forced to during WWII in the European theater (but the US came in very late in that war and didn't really try very hard).

That suggests we are bringing our entire weight to bear on the objective of capturing Osama, which isn't true. Its obvious that the majority of our forces are in Iraq right now, so while we might be paying lip service to capturing OBL, if you think that we've failed despite bringing all our efforts, thus proving that we aren't the most powerful army in the world, you are mistaken.

We have the most powerful and most compassionate army in the world. Unfortunately they have one of the most inept and sociopathic commanders in the world.

BUHAWAWAWAWAWAW!!!!!

This "most powerful army in the world" hasn't even been able to take down the one guy who was the primary objective in the "War on Terror".

We true Americans have a word for that: INEPT!

I suggest never bragging on the US Military ever again.

Oh ... and before you even try it ... I am a decorated combat veteran.

If you really are a decorated combat veteran I have one thing to say to you,
I am disappointed.
You should be proud of your countries military even if you don't agree with its deployment, it is not their choice

I think better of our veterans then what you seem to be

Because it spits in the face of due process. The bounty on Bin Laden is "Dead or Alive". One cannot give a dead man a fair trial, now can they?



Do you just have blinders on to what our carpet bombing with depleted uranium does? Do you ignore every child who starves or cannot get proper medical attention due to a US embargo for something that happened 85 years ago? We are an economic super-power and, yet, we give our money to Bill Gates and Halliburton. Why?

How come we'll step in with chest out and guns ablazin' when one African nation is oppressing another or when one Arabic nation is attacking another, but turn a blind eye when it comes to, say, the occupation of Ireland?

I'll tell you why: Because the US will not step in and kill WHITE people. If the enemy is brown, the US will use all the force at its disposal. The only times they've done it is to gain their independance or when forced to during WWII in the European theater (but the US came in very late in that war and didn't really try very hard).

You are so pathetic
First of all HOW CAN YOU BE SO F*CKING DENSE?!
Of course we put hard work into WWII maybe you forget we had the war in europe and the pacific,
we tried very hard to stay out of war
we had to be attacked to finnaly decalre war on japan and in europe we tried to stay out as long as we could

the US tries to stay out of wars that is why we haven't invaded N Korea, Iran or Saudia Arbia
we stay out of foreign affairs with others likre ireland's occupation
we only invaded if there is a threat or a perceived threat (i repeat PERCIEVED)
ie 9/11, WMDs

osama dead or alive is because do you really beive a terroist who mercilessly kills innocent civilians has a chance of beining innocent and would definatly be senteced to death so why not kill on the spot

osama dead or alive is because do you really beive a terroist who mercilessly kills innocent civilians has a chance of beining innocent and would definatly be senteced to death so why not kill on the spot

So you would spit on the Constitution by denying a person their right to a trial, the right to due process?

You, sir, have no respect for America or that for which it stands.

Because it spits in the face of due process. The bounty on Bin Laden is "Dead or Alive". One cannot give a dead man a fair trial, now can they?

Nope. So let him turn himself in. "Dead or alive" is not simply an american invention, it has a long history in cases where a fugitive suspect is believed to be too dangerous to simply walk up to an arrest. Show me any law that forbids it?

Do you just have blinders on to what our carpet bombing with depleted uranium does? Do you ignore every child who starves or cannot get proper medical attention due to a US embargo for something that happened 85 years ago? We are an economic super-power and, yet, we give our money to Bill Gates and Halliburton. Why?

Because our current administration, coupe d'etat actually, is corrupt and venile. Do you have blinders on to my entire post history? Well, I have never spoken out against depleted uranium, so I do so now. But if you are saying that the use of depleted uranium is in and of itself an example of genocide, you'll need to do a lot more than just mentioning it in passing.

And what is this 85 year embargo you're taliing about? Are cuban children the ones starving? ...still not 85.... are you talking about the Iraqis who suffered when Saddam brought embargos by refusing to cooperate with inspectors? When we arranged for things like food and medicine to come in, and he diverted it to his armies? So... he's the genocidal one (literally, he is... ask any Kurd) and we are replacing him?

Or maybe you're talking abouit terrorsts and insurgents in places like Iraq and Palestine who deliberately hide behind noncombatent civilians so they can recruit more fighters by calling it genocide when they take the civilians with them to 72-Virgins-Land? Nice one. Just like the Saddam example, we have an example of our enemies making this a genocidal conflict. Keep going, you're on a roll...

How come we'll step in with chest out and guns ablazin' when one African nation is oppressing another or when one Arabic nation is attacking another, but turn a blind eye when it comes to, say, the occupation of Ireland?

Number one, we only give a shit about genocide in non-oil states, like african ones, when Democrats are in power, preferably in both Houses and the White House. Number Two... there was genocide in Ireland, centuries ago. Currently UK troops and police are there at the continued request of the irish government. Ireland is a democracy, so if the whole country is so against it, let them put in an anti-UK government. What you have brought up is a case of moidern terrorists still murdering over ancient crimes. And yes, I put the Orangemen in that category too.

I'll tell you why: Because the US will not step in and kill WHITE people. If the enemy is brown, the US will use all the force at its disposal. The only times they've done it is to gain their independance or when forced to during WWII in the European theater (but the US came in very late in that war and didn't really try very hard).

No, the US had no problem, eventually, stepping in and killing genocidal Whites in what was once Yugoslavia. But then we had a Democrat in office. You seem to be refering to a mystery pseudo-history in which the USA has run rampage over the Middle East and Africa. Care to share? Afghanistan (justified)... Somalia (we were fighting against the genocide there, recall?)... Iraq (major fuck-up but "you break it, you bought it" ... we can't just pull out now and let Al Q take over)... uhm... that's about it...

This "genocide" argument of yours is getting really thin. How does Yoguslavia fit in, where we were fighting Whites who wanted to kill "Browns"? (...well, Muslims?) It doesn't, that's how.

Hmm wonder what the Nuremberg trials were done for then. Apparently our Nazi leaders in the 1940s were innocent enough to grant them fair trials... or were these just for show?

You are so pathetic
First of all HOW CAN YOU BE SO F*CKING DENSE?!
Of course we put hard work into WWII maybe you forget we had the war in europe and the pacific,
we tried very hard to stay out of war
we had to be attacked to finnaly decalre war on japan and in europe we tried to stay out as long as we could

the US tries to stay out of wars that is why we haven't invaded N Korea, Iran or Saudia Arbia
we stay out of foreign affairs with others likre ireland's occupation
we only invaded if there is a threat or a perceived threat (i repeat PERCIEVED)
ie 9/11, WMDs

Hi, peat the newbie here. :)
Just wanted to say a few things in response. First of all, the Japanese attack on the US wasn't exactly unprovoked. Oil and steal embargos, amongst other things, had pretty much pushed Japan into a corner. Of course, if they hadn't invaded China et al it wouldn't have been a problem to begin with. Certainly not absolving Japan.

And here's the list of countries the US has been at war with (though not necessarily declared war, of course) since the end of WWII:
China (1945-1946, 1950-1953)
Korea (1950-1953)
Guatemala (1954, 1967-1969)
Indonesia (1958)
Cuba (1959-1960)
the Belgian Congo (1964)
Peru (1965)
Laos (1964-1973)
Vietnam (1961-1973)
Cambodia (1969-1970)
Grenada (1983)
Libya (1986)
El Salvador (1980s)
Nicaragua (1980s)
Panama (1989)
Iraq (1991-2001)
Bosnia (1995)
Sudan (1998)
Yugoslavia (1999)
Afghanistan (present)

Sourse: Roy, Arundhati Power Politics
Before you rip into me, i can't give you a detailed account of why we were involved in all of those "conflicts." Some of them may have been less "avoidable" then others.

Hmm wonder what the Nuremberg trials were done for then. Apparently our Nazi leaders in the 1940s were innocent enough to grant them fair trials... or were these just for show?

For the record, yes those were just for show. so was Tokyo.

Hmm wonder what the Nuremberg trials were done for then. Apparently our Nazi leaders in the 1940s were innocent enough to grant them fair trials... or were these just for show?


Well ... the Nazis were White ... and they only killed Jews and Queers, so they might be ok by US standards ... more evidence for my point! Thanks, Gig.

Do you have blinders on to my entire post history?

No ... I just like to get people riled up sometimes ... it makes me giggle.

Hmm wonder what the Nuremberg trials were done for then. Apparently our Nazi leaders in the 1940s were innocent enough to grant them fair trials... or were these just for show?

Those who fought "arrest" were brought in dead, those who could be captured, or turned themselves in, were brought in alive. If Bin Laden doesn't want to be killed resisting arrest, let him come turn himself in.

Well ... the Nazis were White ... and they only killed Jews and Queers, so they might be ok by US standards ... more evidence for my point! Thanks, Gig.
No. They got "fair trials" because the newly founded United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights dictated it.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html


Learn something new every day. These rights also apply to Osama and the U.S. are actually violating this declaration each and every day.

No ... I just like to get people riled up sometimes ... it makes me giggle.

So... you defend Bin Laden for fun? Take my advice: don't ever let anyone know where you live. Jackass.

So... you defend Bin Laden for fun? Take my advice: don't ever let anyone know where you live. Jackass.
Why? Osama Bin Laden is a Great Hero in some parts of the world. Surely he is worthy of praise, no? It is merely in the eye of the beholder.

No. They got "fair trials" because the newly founded United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights dictated it.

I appreciate the use of quotations marks on "fair trials" and hopefully am interpretting it correctly. The primary basis for what is a war crime and what isn't is basically who did it. For example, after WWII, Admiral Doernitz (spelling?) was aquitted of several charges, simply because they were similar to tactics used by Admiral Nimitz, and therefore deemed legal.

So... you defend Bin Laden for fun? Take my advice: don't ever let anyone know where you live. Jackass.

Even Bin Laden has the right to defense. What have you done in your past that some may find reprehensible and believe you to be worthy of instant death or eternal damnation? Where is your right to judge carved in stone?

As for not letting people know where I live ... I do not live in fear. Ever. Where I live is open for all and my door is always open to anyone who come to me seeking shelter, comfort, food, or company.

If someone chooses to take my life for my beliefs, then so be it. They will have taken all they can take and will be no more powerful and no more right for the taking of it.

Even Bin Laden has the right to defense. What have you done in your past that some may find reprehensible and believe you to be worthy of instant death or eternal damnation? Where is your right to judge carved in stone?

I doubt whatever Druthulhu has done in the past has come anywhere near ordering the murder of thousands of civilians.

You all seriously need to get your facts straight...
I belive USA does not have the largest army in the world, either Russia, China or Japan have the largest army. But the us army certainly has the largest budget of the world´s armies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army

Even Bin Laden has the right to defense. What have you done in your past that some may find reprehensible and believe you to be worthy of instant death or eternal damnation? Where is your right to judge carved in stone?

As for not letting people know where I live ... I do not live in fear. Ever. Where I live is open for all and my door is always open to anyone who come to me seeking shelter, comfort, food, or company.

If someone chooses to take my life for my beliefs, then so be it. They will have taken all they can take and will be no more powerful and no more right for the taking of it.

I have done things worthy of arrest, but if I was wanted by the law for any of them, I would not resist arrest. If I did, I would certainly expect that I might be killed, legally so if I were using lethal means to resist arrest. If Bin Laden wants his day in court, let him turn himself in.

So... gonna tell us where you live, terrorist-kissrer?

j/k. Don't. I wouldn't want you to be killed because I baited you.

And in the Nurnberg Trials, the arrested were kept alive at all cost, so they could be executed, for the world to see...
Göring (Hitler´s right hand) committed suicide moments before the trials, but they showed his corpse to show he was certainly dead

I doubt whatever Druthulhu has done in the past has come anywhere near ordering the murder of thousands of civilians.

Thanks for the vote of support... SUCKAH!!! ;)

*goes back to plotting the deaths of all other male humans by means of a virus based upon his own DNA, which will not kill him, so he can be the last man on Earth and make all those bitches from his high school days think again about what they would do if...*

I have a much stronger respect for Usama Bin Laden (yes it is Usama if you have read the 9/11 Commission Report). Are we all too blind to see that all this man wants is peace and kind feelings toward his country? Can we not understand that he is doing only what he feel's is right? Anyone who has studied ancient Mesopotamian history will know about Hammurabi's code. It stated that if something was done to you, then you could 'give them a taste of their own medicine.' You could do the exact same thing back. If someone killed your cattle, you could kill theirs. We killed the people and children of Afghanistan, and now he wants us to understand what it feels like. President Bush is diverting the attention from the real problem, and attacking Afghanistan by instating United States policies, such as democracy and elections, which is not what Bin Laden wants. All he wants is peace and freedom for our people. And I feel that I would rather have him in place as the president of the United States then some lunatic who fears a 'noo-kill-er' war, because Usama Bin Laden cares about the safety of his people, and will make sure that they will get their safety no matter what.
Also, anyone who want to 'get their hands on him' or 'kill him' are complete hypocrites. They are angry at him because he killed American citizens. However, killing him would only be dropping to his level. Although I admit that I don't believe in his tactics for getting peace (I am a neo-hippie pacifist from the United States who knows people who were killed in the 9/11 attacks), I certainly think that he is smarter then George W. Bush, and he is more careful about how he works. Anyone may feel free to argue this issue, and if you have any questions, comments, arguments, or hate letters/death threats for me, email me at StaplesGuy@gmail.com.

-StaplesGuy-

We attacked Afghanistan AFTER and BECAUSE OF 9/11. So if you wanna bring "eye for an eye" into it, he is still in the wrong.

True, but they attacked us because of the hatred that we as a country and as a community have show Afghanistan and the Islamic community, he was able to justify it in his own way. Also, siding with Isreal on international conflict really rubbed him the wrong way, so he was paying us back with 9/11, and launching into a war on Afghanistan, a war on Terrorism, and then a war on Iraq? That was definitely not the best decision. What ever happened to 'war as a last resort'? I guess it got replaced by George W. Bush's next catchphrase, 'bring it on.' And that they did. Now I need to sleep. Email me with questions or comments.
StaplesGuy@gmail.com

-Staples-Guy-

True, but they attacked us because of the hatred that we as a country and as a community have show Afghanistan and the Islamic community, he was able to justify it in his own way. Also, siding with Isreal on international conflict really rubbed him the wrong way, so he was paying us back with 9/11, and launching into a war on Afghanistan, a war on Terrorism, and then a war on Iraq? That was definitely not the best decision. What ever happened to 'war as a last resort'? I guess it got replaced by George W. Bush's next catchphrase, 'bring it on.' And that they did. Now I need to sleep. Email me with questions or comments.
StaplesGuy@gmail.com

-Staples-Guy-

Nope. No e'mail. You can post here when you get up.

So we "rubbed him the wrong way" by supporting Israel against "Muslims" who wanted to destroy them in contrevention of the Q'ran? That's his defence? He was "rubbed the wrong way"? We disrespected Islam by defending Saudi Arabia and Kuwait from Saddam? Oh poor poor baby!

Nope. No e'mail. You can post here when you get up.

So we "rubbed him the wrong way" by supporting Israel against "Muslims" who wanted to destroy them in contrevention of the Q'ran? That's his defence? He was "rubbed the wrong way"? We disrespected Islam by defending Saudi Arabia and Kuwait from Saddam? Oh poor poor baby!


Stop...just stop bringing the q'ran into this..i highly doubt you know much about the book other than enough to trot it out to try to make your point so just dont.

Heh, Osama cared so much about Israel/Palestine/Lebanon that he was in Afghanistan fighting the Russians on our dime :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is Al Qaeda came about because of troops in Saudia Arabia after the Saudis asked the US for assistance, thinking Iraq would come after them after invading Kuwait. Mentioning Israel/Palestinians/Lebanon is nothing more than a cynical attempt to gain more recruits.

He wants to get rid of oppressive regimes. IMO he should have started with the Taliban (of course to him that was the ideal government)

(as an aside, let's look at the regimes Bin Laden has been associated with: the Taliban, the Saudis, and the Sudanese. Wow thank Allah he hates oppressive regimes :eek: ).

Oh and let's not forget that after driving out the West his first order of business would be converting every shiite Muslim under penalty of death.