NationStates Jolt Archive

This post has been taken from my 'Ask a Jew' thread since I wanted to see what people have to say and I doubt that it'd get many reactions in that thread

Well, it hasn't been asked but this is just a little random trivia fact that I've wanted to tell people for some time.

For a long time there has been a prejudicial belief that Jews had horns, and strangely this does not come from the belief that Jews are descended from the Devil or any other such thing (Such beliefs have been circulating for quite a while, but have no connection to this topic). This belief, which still survives in some parts of the 'civilised' world, comes not from hatred or propoganda, but from a simple mistranslation.

Moses, one of the most important figure in Jewish history, is also one of the most well known of the Jewish prophets. He freed the Slaves from Egypt, unleashed the Ten Plagues upon those same Egyptians, brought the Ten Commandments to Humanity, and led the Jews to the Promised Land (Although they did have to wander for forty years before reaching said promised land). He actually spoke directly to God, not merely to a Messenger Angel or visions from a dream, one-on-one conversation. He was so darn nifty that he was often described as having Rays of Light shooting forth from his head, and here is where we run into problems.

In one of the many translations of the Torah, it was either from Hebrew to Greek or Greek to another language (I can't remember which), the Rays of Light had a bit of a snag. It turns out that whatever language it was being translated to (or from) was a lot like English, with words that have the same spelling containing different meanings (Ex: I wound the bandage around the wound. The Polish citizen applied a coat of polish). This was one such case, with "Ray of Light" and "Horns" being spelt the same way. Since one of the languages wasn't like that there were no indicators to specify which meaning was in use at the time. End result: Moses ends up looking like some weird Devil creature instead of Gods right hand man.

While most sane people know that Jews in fact don't have horns, the rumor did spread far and wide. In fact, even the great Michaelangelo (the artist) was sucked in, as can be see by the fact that his statue of Moses comes with two very prominent horns smack dab in the middle of his forhead. It's actually a very disturbing thing to look at, gave me the whillies.

Anyway, just a random fact. Now more questions!

I thought that this was a nazi-flame thread.

Is that really fact or just someones opinion turned into fact due to the long drawn out regurgitation of some history or just because jews don't want to be thought of as the devil's little helpers?

Just curious?

That's really fact, I have checked on the story.

Ok, I'll stop spreading the rumor that jews are the devil then....haha
just kidding I don't spread that rumor Mad Max does!

i have seen pictures of that statue many times and i never noticed that horn thing. have you seen it in person? are they really horns? that IS creepy

I have not seen it in person, only in pictures. They were pretty prominant on the statue, I don't see how they could be missed. Could we be thinking of two different statues?

A quicky Google search for "Michelangelo Moses" revealed this picture

http://www.join2day.net/abc/M/michelangelo/michelangelo15.JPG

I'm pretty sure they're horns

Thats pretty damn funny. And yet, scary...
Like that new movie The Grudge.

I have not seen it in person, only in pictures. They were pretty prominant on the statue, I don't see how they could be missed. Could we be thinking of two different statues?
no i dont think we are
i googled it and indeed now that you bring it up there DO seem to be horns on moses' head. i was only wondering since i had never noticed it before, if it really looks like that from all angles. no color on the statue so i cant know for sure that its not an optical illusion without having someone else tell me so.

I have not seen it in person, only in pictures. They were pretty prominant on the statue, I don't see how they could be missed. Could we be thinking of two different statues?

I've seen the statue you're referring to in person, and they definitely are two little horns. Michaelangelo isn't the only renaissance artist to make that error, though; Moses-cum-horns is pretty common (statues and paintings).

I always wonder jokingly, of course) should we take the horns off the statue? Would Michaelangelo want people to be laughing at his masterpeice? WWMD? I mean, it kind of distracts from the genius of his sculpture if everyone keeps sinckering over the fact that Moses is perrennially dressed for halloween.

Ashmoria, I've linked to a color picture two posts above yours, maybe you can see them better there.

Also, if you're willing to, you could take my word for it. I've seen multi-angle pictures and I see horns in all of them.

I'm just waiting for the Nazis to show up and tell us that Jews do, in fact, have horns. And they're hiding them from the world as part of the evil Jewish banking conspiracy to brainwash us all with the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Just wait...

Yeah, I'd heard about this when we covered that statue in an art history course...it was one of those amusing factoids the prof offered.

DO jews really keep a golden coin under their yamakas?

Is it so they can pay Yahweh when they die to be let into paradise?

What if it gets stolen?

Moses, one of the most important figure in Jewish history, is also one of the most well known of the Jewish prophets. He freed the Slaves from Egypt, unleashed the Ten Plagues upon those same Egyptians, brought the Ten Commandments to Humanity, and led the Jews to the Promised Land (Although they did have to wander for forty years before reaching said promised land). He actually spoke directly to God, not merely to a Messenger Angel or visions from a dream, one-on-one conversation. He was so darn nifty that he was often described as having Rays of Light shooting forth from his head, and here is where we run into problems.
Well, actually it was God who spoke directly to him.

The "Rays of Light" were not just nifty, they were downright mythic.

In one of the many translations of the Torah, it was either from Hebrew to Greek or Greek to another language (I can't remember which), the Rays of Light had a bit of a snag. It turns out that whatever language it was being translated to (or from) was a lot like English, with words that have the same spelling containing different meanings (Ex: I wound the bandage around the wound. The Polish citizen applied a coat of polish). This was one such case, with "Ray of Light" and "Horns" being spelt the same way. Since one of the languages wasn't like that there were no indicators to specify which meaning was in use at the time. End result: Moses ends up looking like some weird Devil creature instead of Gods right hand man.

While most sane people know that Jews in fact don't have horns, the rumor did spread far and wide. In fact, even the great Michaelangelo (the artist) was sucked in, as can be see by the fact that his statue of Moses comes with two very prominent horns smack dab in the middle of his forhead. It's actually a very disturbing thing to look at, gave me the whillies.
I would think the horns are mythological, attributable to Aaron who had taken to worshipping the goddess Ashoreth by the time Moses came down from the mountain.

New Granada, leave my thread or I will go to the Mods immediately. I have already answered all your ridiculous and prejudicial questions about Judaism in my Ask a Jew thread (Including this question). Also, I just don't like you. Leave my thread. Now.

Willamena, from what I know the only punishment for all the Jews worshiping the Golden Calf was that some were immedietaly killed and the rest had to wander the desert for forty years. They had to wander so that the rest of the Calf worshipers would die off before they reached the promised land, their children would enter but not those who had strayed from the path of God.

Well that explains the horns. But now explain the forked tails and pitchforks all Jews have!

I think those are purely for looks. Who could resist someone decked out like that?

Wait a moment... Only the male jew wears a yamaka.

My appologies but I do not think you are knowledgeable in the area of the golden coin kept under the yamaka.

It explains why you have such an irrational and knee-jerk reaction when it is brought up.

I shall have to ask a male jew regarding that particular point of judaism.

---

Next question:

The wandering Jew. Is there one? Was there one? Who is he? Where is he?

I am a male Jew, this is not a question thread, and you will now be reported to the Mods. Have a nice day!

This post has been taken from my 'Ask a Jew' thread since I wanted to see what people have to say and I doubt that it'd get many reactions in that thread

Well, it hasn't been asked but this is just a little random trivia fact that I've wanted to tell people for some time.

For a long time there has been a prejudicial belief that Jews had horns, and strangely this does not come from the belief that Jews are descended from the Devil or any other such thing (Such beliefs have been circulating for quite a while, but have no connection to this topic). This belief, which still survives in some parts of the 'civilised' world, comes not from hatred or propoganda, but from a simple mistranslation.

Moses, one of the most important figure in Jewish history, is also one of the most well known of the Jewish prophets. He freed the Slaves from Egypt, unleashed the Ten Plagues upon those same Egyptians, brought the Ten Commandments to Humanity, and led the Jews to the Promised Land (Although they did have to wander for forty years before reaching said promised land). He actually spoke directly to God, not merely to a Messenger Angel or visions from a dream, one-on-one conversation. He was so darn nifty that he was often described as having Rays of Light shooting forth from his head, and here is where we run into problems.

In one of the many translations of the Torah, it was either from Hebrew to Greek or Greek to another language (I can't remember which), the Rays of Light had a bit of a snag. It turns out that whatever language it was being translated to (or from) was a lot like English, with words that have the same spelling containing different meanings (Ex: I wound the bandage around the wound. The Polish citizen applied a coat of polish). This was one such case, with "Ray of Light" and "Horns" being spelt the same way. Since one of the languages wasn't like that there were no indicators to specify which meaning was in use at the time. End result: Moses ends up looking like some weird Devil creature instead of Gods right hand man.

While most sane people know that Jews in fact don't have horns, the rumor did spread far and wide. In fact, even the great Michaelangelo (the artist) was sucked in, as can be see by the fact that his statue of Moses comes with two very prominent horns smack dab in the middle of his forhead. It's actually a very disturbing thing to look at, gave me the whillies.

Anyway, just a random fact. Now more questions!
I never knew that! I knew Jews did not have horns but I never knew it was from a mistranslation;

I am a male Jew, this is not a question thread, and you will now be reported to the Mods. Have a nice day!


Your ditty under your name calls you a 'spam girl,' which combined with your savagely irrational response to the simple question implied that you were female.


I can understand if the golden coin is a secret or something, I'll just have to go ask a more liberal jew who doesnt keep secrets.

Also, for the record, what is your stance on the wandering jew?
He is depicted in literature.

I responded savagely because it was an offensive question insinuating that you can buy your way into paradise. Also, I am irritated at your asking the question after I have already answered it in a different thread.

Now, since I do not want this to simply become a Me Vs NG flame thread, are there any more comments/questions about the topic of the thread?

I've never heard the claim that Jews had horns before, and I've debated some very crazy neonazis.

It's not a very big belief currently since (with the advent of television and the internet) it is easy to see (with your own eyes) that Jews don't have horns even if you're in a completely Jew-free area. It's more of a past stereotype than a current one