NationStates Jolt Archive

Since I haven't seen it anywhere, I thought I would post my take on the whole situation of wars and all the anti-stuff thats been going on.

In my opinion, organised religion, and forms of behaviour that mimic organised religion, are the root of all evil. The only one that I exempt from this list is bhuddism, as it is the only one that is not fundamentally intolerant of others.

Firstly, what I define as an organised religion, is something with a large following, who believe that there is some kind of higher power/s, which run everything, require obediance of some kind, and in believing in them, make you a better person than anyone who believes differently, or does not believe at all. I believe this categorises all organised religions (except for bhuddism) and also my countries in the world, where the virtues of being a patriot and 'a good honest citizen' and extolled. For example, around half of americans seem to be under the impression that their country has some sort of divine right given to them because they are 'patriotic americans' and are better than those who are not americans. Many other countries with governments that are fundamentalist in all but name follow that same pattern of behaviour.

Now that I have explained my reasoning, on to my argument. Every single war in history has been started due to religion, or one country thinking that they are fundamentally better than another, due to their method of governing or whatever they choose to believe e.g. the Vietnam War, (sorry to pick on America all the time, but they just give the best examples, as they basically govern using a christian mandate "god fearing americans") America started a war soley on the basis of politics, there was no genuine threat to anyones lives, only a threat to their ideaology. Religion causing wars goes back into the Dark Ages, with the crusades. Throughout history there have been examples of organised religion, or government mimicing organised religion trying to spread themselves, trying to prove that what they believe in is better, from Hitler's facist Germany to the constant warring between factions of christianity, in which no one ever wins.

So. Organised religion (and countries that follow the behavioural patterns of organised religion) are the root of all evil. Why can't these people rely on themselves instead of having to believe in (in my opinion) fictional powers that be.

Prove me wrong.

I wouldn't say organized religion but intolerance itself. After all, intolerance isn't totally monopolized by religion, but race, nationality, political beliefs, and social status all contribute.

Prove me wrong.

Easy. All the problems that you claim are the fault of organized religion existed before organized religion.

How about human greed and manipulation of such things as religion and political idealogies and the like so that they gain from it. which may or may not be part of human nature.

Easy. All the problems that you claim are the fault of organized religion existed before organized religion.
Organized religion certainly hasn't helped the situation any either, and has in many cases, exacerbated those problems.

Organized religion certainly hasn't helped the situation any either, and has in many cases, exacerbated those problems.

That doesn't matter. He said "prove me wrong", and I did.

The real root of all evil is human nature.

Your first major problem is that you said that all religions are fundamentally intolerant. No, religion says to be intolerant to others in their foly works. It is the human aspect, which is not the fundamental part, that leads to intolerance.

Easy. All the problems that you claim are the fault of organized religion existed before organized religion.

Uhhhh you know the catholic church, that thing that started back while Rome was the centre of the known world? (for westernised culture anyway).

I wouldn't say organized religion but intolerance itself. After all, intolerance isn't totally monopolized by religion, but race, nationality, political beliefs, and social status all contribute.

That's a valid point, but you have misunderstood my first post, i'm also saying that other groups that mimic the bahaviour of organised religions. Essentially any group whose leader is a god, or treated as such, such as many non secular countries.

Unfortunately, it seems to be ingrained into many peoples beliefs (often inferred to them by religious means) to be intolerant of anything different, as religions are neophobic, and opposed to change.

Uhhhh you know the catholic church, that thing that started back while Rome was the centre of the known world? (for westernised culture anyway).


Yes, what about it? The problems that you attribute to organized religion were around way before the Catholic Church, and well before any of the organized religions of Rome and Greece and Egypt.

Your post is just a veiled attack on America hidden under pretenses of "organized religion".

I say greed, though it is a part of human nature, but not all of human nature is evil. Greed is what makes us try and steal, conquer lands, manipulate people to our own gains, etc.

Since everyone seems to be missing my point completely, i'm going to quote some of my initial post for those to lazy to scroll back up to the top of the page.

Firstly, what I define as an organised religion, is something with a large following, who believe that there is some kind of higher power/s, which run everything, require obediance of some kind, and in believing in them, make you a better person than anyone who believes differently, or does not believe at all. I believe this categorises all organised religions (except for bhuddism) and also my countries in the world, where the virtues of being a patriot and 'a good honest citizen' and extolled. For example, around half of americans seem to be under the impression that their country has some sort of divine right given to them because they are 'patriotic americans' and are better than those who are not americans. Many other countries with governments that are fundamentalist in all but name follow that same pattern of behaviour.

I am not only talking about religion, I am also talking about countries that act like a religious group, believing that they have some sort of divinge right to rule the world.

And organised religions have been around around as long as people have been scared about what happens after they die, and have been too afraid to accept that one life may be all you have.

Atheists are known to be intolerant to those who follow a religion and they do not have a God.

I dont beleive anything is "evil"

The only reason we have "evil" are because of these socailly acceptable standards the human race has come up with, so i guess you could say the root of all evil is the set of socialy acceptable guidelines have set up for ourselves

I say kill em all and let the bacteria that decomposes their corpse sort em out

:mp5:

The root of all evil stems from man. I think it was continued because of man then woman and so forth. Mainly through vindictivness and revenge. Then it continues through out time from thinking that man is stronger than woman and so on. When really the strength in a woman is far superior than a man or at least has been until now. Men are finally realizing that equality is a large part of having a non-biased and fair plan. Women already understood this and because of there patience we will also understand this. We still have alot to learn but with the understanding of a woman and the forgiveness that they have in thier hearts we will be able to spread this love into a worldly commonality. Take away the formality and labels that man has placed upon every little thing on this earth and we would truly see a just world with peace and love for all.

Evil is what humans consider "bad". People have been considering things "bad" since time began. Though, what is today considered "bad" or evil, might not have been back in the past, so I do agree partially that evil is what human standards make it into.

EDIT: This was directed to Das' post btw...

Free will is the root of all good and evil. You can't have one without the other.

The only problem I see with orgenised religion is when they try to make laws based on their religion. Or try to spead their religion by force or smooth talking.

And I find door to door salvation salespeople very annoying!!!

I would say that humans are the root of all evil. After all, we are the ones that came up with the concept.

I say greed, though it is a part of human nature, but not all of human nature is evil. Greed is what makes us try and steal, conquer lands, manipulate people to our own gains, etc.

A valid point. But one greedy man on his own can do nothing. He needs a large group of people, and a way of controlling them. Religion is the simplest means of doing so. Without religion, wether it has been vainly hidden under a thin layer of politics or not, there is no way of taking a single mans greed and multiplying to become threatening.

The only problem I see with orgenised religion is when they try to make laws based on their religion. Or try to spead their religion by force or smooth talking.

And I find door to door salvation salespeople very annoying!!!

Yeah, making laws based on ethical theories is moronic. When will people learn we need to be aribtary when we choose our laws.
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I forgot to mention something, the name on the thread is a piss-take, and should not be taken seriously, I was merely using religious language to emphasize my point.

I also would throw out politics as being a major part of all evil. If not the entire reason. I think politics that man began with and then started sucking women into is the reason for much of todays evil and the pasts. It might be within a church or within a local pta meeting or a group of jury members. It all truly brings down the good possiblities in us all. When we think we should do something one way without understanding the other side it creates that barrier of communication that is essential.

A valid point. But one greedy man on his own can do nothing. He needs a large group of people, and a way of controlling them. Religion is the simplest means of doing so. Without religion, wether it has been vainly hidden under a thin layer of politics or not, there is no way of taking a single mans greed and multiplying to become threatening.

Yes, religion can take part. But it is Greed that makes a man use a religion. Religion is then not the root, but the tool, just as a man could use fear to use people to reach his own goals.

I think many of the problems you ascribe to organized religion derive mainly out of the formation of religion, which naturally claims a moral high ground (and that makes sense), as an institution which will naturally look out more for number one than for the values it claims to represent. This is the case with all institutions--because the institution has to exist to accomplish its goals, all concerns (even those goals) are subordinated to the continued existence and flourishing of the institution itself. The ends justify the means. Consequently, you get an institution like the church doing things horrifyingly sinful and evil (eg Inquisition, Crusades, approval/support for Holocaust) because they are done in the name of the church, not the religious values. A lot--though I don't claim all--of organized religion's negative behaviors derive from this point.

Now the question is, would you rather have churches that always represent true values of good over evil in all cases, but cease to exist rather quickly and thus can accomplish nothing?

"Evil" is a religiously oriented term. In fact, one of religions' main cultural functions is defining what evil is in the first place, explaining it.

Personally, I see it as relative, i don't believe in absolute good or evil. What you call evil, though, hardly has one source. Sure, we could blame religion... someone else politics, and that works too. The real thing is, the source of all we do is the human mind, and human culture, and putting them into human civilization. Any evil is the result of that.

I would go even a step further and say politics in religion as being the root of it all. Politics and everything it touches turns to complete dust and withers away to the point of not even being real anymore.

And here I thought it was the love of money that was the root of all evil.

And here I thought it was the love of money that was the root of all evil.

Or women...

And here I thought it was the love of money that was the root of all evil.

The love of money, the want of more land, the want of more power, the want to control more lives, all spawn from greed. Religion, fear, the masses, all become tools to a person's greed so they can reach what they want.

And yet greed -- avarice -- is taught as one of the seven deadly sins.

Go figure.

Yeah, making laws based on ethical theories is moronic. When will people learn we need to be aribtary when we choose our laws.
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When there's a logical basis for the ethical theories, it's fine. When the basis is a belief system which is one of many, none of which have any validation outside of the pages of their own texts, there's something wrong.

When there's a logical basis for the ethical theories, it's fine. When the basis is a belief system which is one of many, none of which have any validation outside of the pages of their own texts, there's something wrong.

The Divine Command Theory is a logical theory in itself. Also, it can be used in conjunction with other ethical theories such as utilitarianism and determinism. I think anyone would have a hard time disproving the theory.

Is there any such thing as an unorganized religion?

I mean ... aren't they all organized in some fashion?

I assume he wants a counter-example. i.e. an organized religion that does not have these problems &ct.

Amish, old colony Mennonites, Hutterites, Quakers, Shakers and pretty much any anabaptist sect. Not once since the reformation have any of these groups EVER caused said problems.