NationStates Jolt Archive

I know this is a very important issue in the USA, and here's my opinions on it--feel free to shred them apart, hehe, just making discussion:

I believe that illegal immigration should be halted immediately...in the case of the Southern border (our biggest problem) build a large tall wall and cover the whole thing w/ mgun nests, so no one can get through. Here's the thing: if someone wants to get into our country, then they can go through the proper channels, they don't have to run in. I live in New Jersey--Jersey mind you, and we have a large Mexican problem here--this far north!!! They are taking all of our local jobs and things to do, ruining the local economy for the whites who live here trying to make some money.

The illegal immigration must be stopped immediately.

I think that a huge wall would be impractical. Better to send them to labor camps, so they can earn the money to be deported.

Hadn't thought of that, that's a good idea. But they should be turned back at the border.

Here's the thing: if someone wants to get into our country, then they can go through the proper channels, they don't have to run in. I live in New Jersey--Jersey mind you, and we have a large Mexican problem here--this far north!!! They are taking all of our local jobs and things to do, ruining the local economy for the whites who live here trying to make some money.

The illegal immigration must be stopped immediately.

There is a significant Mexican population around here too...thing is the majority of them seem to be working the jobs I sure wouldn't want. But I do think illegal immigration is a problem. All across the board that is, not just limited to Mexican people.

Random thought...Too bad I suck at speaking Spanish, could never roll those double "r"s.

Yes, but the people in power like it. So it is here to stay.

I know this is a very important issue in the USA, and here's my opinions on it--feel free to shred them apart, hehe, just making discussion:

I believe that illegal immigration should be halted immediately...in the case of the Southern border (our biggest problem) build a large tall wall and cover the whole thing w/ mgun nests, so no one can get through. Here's the thing: if someone wants to get into our country, then they can go through the proper channels, they don't have to run in. I live in New Jersey--Jersey mind you, and we have a large Mexican problem here--this far north!!! They are taking all of our local jobs and things to do, ruining the local economy for the whites who live here trying to make some money.

The illegal immigration must be stopped immediately.

I agree! I mean...how dare those immigrants steal those less-than-minimum wage jobs with no benifits, that no middle-class, white American would stoop to doing (like night-shift janitorial work, garbage collection, piece-work sweat-shop tailoring, etc.).

Hadn't thought of that, that's a good idea. But they should be turned back at the border.
Yeah, but the ones in here that get caught later should have to work to pay for the costs of shipping them back.

I agree! I mean...how dare those immigrants steal those less-than-minimum wage jobs with no benifits, that no middle-class, white American would stoop to doing (like night-shift janitorial work, garbage collection, piece-work sweat-shop tailoring, etc.).
It has nothing to do with jobs, it has to do with national security, respect for the law, and the cost of policing and providing medical aid to non-taxpayers.

With all the Maddox love floating around this forum, I am surprised I am the first to envoke his logic. Just make sure that illegal immigrants are paid the same minimum wage as everyone else and there should be no stealing of jobs.

And remember, this is a capitalist economy, if someone can do the work cheaper, then you are overpaid.

Well, maybe if you just pre-emptively went to the countries these illegals are coming from and started liquidating their excess population, maybe there'd be fewer people trying to sneak into the U.S.

It has nothing to do with jobs, it has to do with national security, respect for the law, and the cost of policing and providing medical aid to non-taxpayers.

Here is the original racist viewpoint:
I live in New Jersey--Jersey mind you, and we have a large Mexican problem here--this far north!!! They are taking all of our local jobs and things to do, ruining the local economy for the whites who live here trying to make some money.

Unfortunately, the above view is widely held...

Now, talking about YOUR points, somewhat more valid as they are:

National Security: the worst national securty breaches in U.S history, 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were done by: legal visitors to the U.S, and U.S citizens. Acts of terrorism by illegal immigrants so far has not been an issue.

Respect for the law: Granted. However, let us not forget the golden rule...if the U.S wants people to respect IT'S laws, please respect international conventions you yourselves have signed onto: re, the Geneva convention, repeatedly ignored in Guatanamo. That doesn't justify illegal immigration. However, since 9/11, the U.S (and my country, Canada) have made it almost impossible for refugees to claim asylum, or for legitimate (but poor) foreigner to immigrate. The process needs to be rehauled.

Cost of policing: it would be impossible to make your borders completely secure...and the costs of policing prohibitive. Obviously policing won't work...so what are the alternatives?

Providing medical aid to non-taxpayers: I'm not clear on all the ins and outs of the U.S medical system...I thought that unless you were insured, you can't get medical service? Who pays for illegal immigrants who need health services? Or are they denied services?

With all the Maddox love floating around this forum, I am surprised I am the first to envoke his logic. Just make sure that illegal immigrants are paid the same minimum wage as everyone else and there should be no stealing of jobs.

And remember, this is a capitalist economy, if someone can do the work cheaper, then you are overpaid.
I don't care about the jobs, I just don't think illegals have a reason to be here.

With all the Maddox love floating around this forum, I am surprised I am the first to envoke his logic. Just make sure that illegal immigrants are paid the same minimum wage as everyone else and there should be no stealing of jobs.
Exactly. The solution is to make illegal immigration: Legal! Immigration has made this country great, and it continues to do so.

And remember, this is a capitalist economy, if someone can do the work cheaper, then you are overpaid.
HA! Owned! :D

It most certainly has something to do w/ jobs! The immigration changes everything:

-Less jobs for local whites (like here)
-No respect for local law
-No respect for local residents
-Distorts racial makeup of region--white people will be a minority in this country in 30 years!
-Etc. Etc. List goes on

With all the Maddox love floating around this forum, I am surprised I am the first to envoke his logic. Just make sure that illegal immigrants are paid the same minimum wage as everyone else and there should be no stealing of jobs.

And remember, this is a capitalist economy, if someone can do the work cheaper, then you are overpaid.

To hard.

Try this. Devalue the dollar to the point where poor Americans go to Mexico for work.

Exactly. The solution is to make illegal immigration: Legal! Immigration has made this country great, and it continues to do so.


HA! Owned! :D

Hell no! Legalize it? wtf!!!! And let all of them screw up our economy and give them our benefits? I think not! It's liberals like you that get me steamed.

It most certainly has something to do w/ jobs! The immigration changes everything:

-Less jobs for local whites (like here)
-No respect for local law
-No respect for local residents
-Distorts racial makeup of region--white people will be a minority in this country in 30 years!
-Etc. Etc. List goes on
I've bolded the parts of your list that are completely unnecessarily racist.

Go play with United White Front.

It most certainly has something to do w/ jobs! The immigration changes everything:

-Less jobs for local whites (like here)
-No respect for local law
-No respect for local residents
-Distorts racial makeup of region--white people will be a minority in this country in 30 years!
-Etc. Etc. List goes on

Um, only your first point has something to do with jobs. Yet it really doesn't, because it's not true. Did an illegal immigrant come to your community and take the job of a doctor or lawyer? How about a school teacher or police officer? No, they may have taken a job that is chronically understaffed by "local whites", like street sweeping, or window washing. They are actually doing your community a service by doing the jobs no one wants.

Let me tell you some things:

Why should we legalize illegal immigration, when it would hurt our own economy and way of life?

California wants to give free college tuition to illegals--why? why not other people, people who live there and deserve it!

Here is the original racist viewpoint:
I don't think that's a reason to justify anything. My views are strictly from a legal and practical approach, as my family has a lot of mixing and immigration. I can sympathize with people's desires to come to America, but I ask they do it legally like my ancestors did.

National Security: the worst national securty breaches in U.S history, 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were done by: legal visitors to the U.S, and U.S citizens. Acts of terrorism by illegal immigrants so far has not been an issue.
Granted, but as long as the borders are pourous, it makes it that much easier for them to move things in and out of America. The people who did the 9/11 attacks were on expired visas, the whole system needs reform.

Respect for the law: Granted. However, let us not forget the golden rule...if the U.S wants people to respect IT'S laws, please respect international conventions you yourselves have signed onto: re, the Geneva convention, repeatedly ignored in Guatanamo. That doesn't justify illegal immigration. However, since 9/11, the U.S (and my country, Canada) have made it almost impossible for refugees to claim asylum, or for legitimate (but poor) foreigner to immigrate. The process needs to be rehauled.
The Geneva convention, as the lawyers interpret it, doesn't apply in Guantanamo. But regardless of what that law states, breaking it does not justify people breaking other laws.

Cost of policing: it would be impossible to make your borders completely secure...and the costs of policing prohibitive. Obviously policing won't work...so what are the alternatives?
Not completely secure, but a problem now is that when an illegal is found, the police have to take him to INS, rather than just deporting him themselves. It's wastefully beaurocratic.

Providing medical aid to non-taxpayers: I'm not clear on all the ins and outs of the U.S medical system...I thought that unless you were insured, you can't get medical service? Who pays for illegal immigrants who need health services? Or are they denied services?
Public hospitals have to provide care to anyone, insured or uninsured, legal or illegal. Private hospitals may turn people away.

I can sympathize with people's desires to come to America, but I ask they do it legally like my ancestors did.


My sentiments exactly.

Hell no! Legalize it? wtf!!!! And let all of them screw up our economy and give them our benefits? I think not! It's liberals like you that get me steamed.

Its conservatives like you who want to claim all the benefits for yourself. You hate us liberals and our thoughts on a welfare state, yet when it comes to affecting your benefits, you get up in arms.

Face it, you have to take some position, not just choose and pick specifically based on your own present position.

...you have to take some position...

I've clearly stated my position on this matter.

I lived in Chicago for four years in a Mexican barrio. Most of my neighbors were "illegals". The local "abogado" spent most of his time defending immigration violations.

Our streets were safe. No crime at all. Everybody worked, everybody pitched in. Every owner cleaned his sidewalk and strretfront every day.

People were friendly, hard-working, loved life, just wanted a chance to live it. It was practically perfect.

Except for our idiotic laws.

If these folks replaced your neighbors you would instantly be in a better neighborhood.

I lived in Chicago for four years in a Mexican barrio. Most of my neighbors were "illegals". The local "abogado" spent most of his time defending immigration violations.

Our streets were safe. No crime at all. Everybody worked, everybody pitched in. Every owner cleaned his sidewalk and strretfront every day.

People were friendly, hard-working, loved life, just wanted a chance to live it. It was practically perfect.

Except for our idiotic laws.

If these folks replaced your neighbors you would instantly be in a better neighborhood.
That's so racist it's not even funny.

I propose a simple plan, one that can pacify the arguments most have.

An illegal is found in the country: Deport them, but not after clearly explaining to them the proper channels/process they must adhere to to gain legal admission.

Upon a second offense, execute them. No delay, no appeals, no "I wont come back, I promise". Clearly, a 2nd offense demonstrates a very active disregard for the law & custom of the country they are not a part of.

The very term itself: ILLEGAL ALIEN. They have no rights in this country, and are not protected by our constitution nor its amendments. People arguing that they should be are free to visit other countries illegally and see what kind of greetings they recieve when discovered.

I don't think that's a reason to justify anything. My views are strictly from a legal and practical approach, as my family has a lot of mixing and immigration. I can sympathize with people's desires to come to America, but I ask they do it legally like my ancestors did.

Aha...but people can't come to the U.S like your ancestors did...the rules have changed and it's a lot harder (although they let non-Europeans in now, which didn't happen in the old days:)) In Canada, the fee to apply for residency is $1650 Canadian, and it has to be cash. That cost is prohibitive for a lot of people. As well, the restrictions facing genuine asylum seekers leaves a lot to be desired...often people who really NEED to come get turned away. Many of the illegal immigrants we are talking about are family members of legal residents, who just don't qualify to get in. Are they criminals? Usually not. Do they not DESERVE to live here? Why not? No, you can't have all of Mexico (or other countries) rushing to your country, but you DO need more immigration to counter negative population growth, and to support your social programs. So yes, immigration needs to be reformed, but that means revising your standards, not just flat out making it illegal.

I agree that people should respect our laws and enter legally, but our laws are so restrictive that it is very difficult to do so.

As for the less jobs for whites argument(I am in shock that they included "for whites"), I will explain a simple piece of economics. It is demand that drives an economy, not supply. When there is a population boost, there is a greater demand for goods, causing suppliers to be willing to finance the production of more goods, leading to more jobs in the manufacturing of these goods. This relationship is mildly sticky so the boost in jobs may come 2 or so months down the road, but it is there none the less.

So for all of these immigrants who perform manual labor jobs, there is a greater demand for farming and manufacturing jobs, which are predominantly unionized "white" dominated jobs.

Aha...but people can't come to the U.S like your ancestors did...the rules have changed and it's a lot harder (although they let non-Europeans in now, which didn't happen in the old days:)) In Canada, the fee to apply for residency is $1650 Canadian, and it has to be cash. That cost is prohibitive for a lot of people. As well, the restrictions facing genuine asylum seekers leaves a lot to be desired...often people who really NEED to come get turned away. Many of the illegal immigrants we are talking about are family members of legal residents, who just don't qualify to get in. Are they criminals? Usually not. Do they not DESERVE to live here? Why not? No, you can't have all of Mexico (or other countries) rushing to your country, but you DO need more immigration to counter negative population growth, and to support your social programs. So yes, immigration needs to be reformed, but that means revising your standards, not just flat out making it illegal.
My grandmother had to speak English before they'd let her in, she learned it while fleeing from Lithuanian communism. I really think we need work vouchers so they can build up a reputation with an employer, and allow people in who 1) speak English, 2) have someone to vouch for them (relative, employer, etc.), and 3) have a job lined up.

I propose a simple plan, one that can pacify the arguments most have.

An illegal is found in the country: Deport them, but not after clearly explaining to them the proper channels/process they must adhere to to gain legal admission.

Upon a second offense, execute them. No delay, no appeals, no "I wont come back, I promise". Clearly, a 2nd offense demonstrates a very active disregard for the law & custom of the country they are not a part of.

The very term itself: ILLEGAL ALIEN. They have no rights in this country, and are not protected by our constitution nor its amendments. People arguing that they should be are free to visit other countries illegally and see what kind of greetings they recieve when discovered.

Holy crap! I was with you until the second offense thing...

As for visiting OTHER countries illegally...who has been executed for that? Feeling a little extreme today?

Well, since I'm half -Native, I say, all you squatters get off my land! Deport the lot of you! Now, I'm also half-Irish, so I guess I'll need to cut off a hand or a foot and lob it into the ocean, but that's the sacrifice I'm willing to make to get rid of you illegal immigrants!

It most certainly has something to do w/ jobs! The immigration changes everything:

-Less jobs for local whites (like here)
-No respect for local law
-No respect for local residents
-Distorts racial makeup of region--white people will be a minority in this country in 30 years!
-Etc. Etc. List goes on

I disagree with the first 3 topics, but ok, it´s your opinion and its legit.
But "DISTORTS RACIAL MAKEUP OF REGION" what kind of nazi complain is that? Want my opinion about that little hitler? If white chicks are having babies with mexicans, its because their dicks are bigger, so, get your little tweeny and go live somewhere else.

Note: I´m being sarcastic, obvious, but, cmon, "distorts racial makeup" what the hell! I think its against the law say something like that!

I disagree with the first 3 topics, but ok, it´s your opinion and its legit.
But "DISTORTS RACIAL MAKEUP OF REGION" what kind of nazi complain is that? Want my opinion about that little hitler? If white chicks are having babies with mexicans, its because their dicks are bigger, so, get your little tweeny and go live somewhere else.

Ay...please don't counter racism with racist remarks/stereotypes.

Note...even sarcastically. Though I get your frustration.

The very term itself: ILLEGAL ALIEN. They have no rights in this country, and are not protected by our constitution nor its amendments. People arguing that they should be are free to visit other countries illegally and see what kind of greetings they recieve when discovered.
False. As a signatary of the Universal Human Rights Convention the United States of America recognizes certain baseline rights to any individual within its borders, independently of their migratory status. Of course, these individuals still must obey the laws of the country, including migratory laws and the US can expell them for not doing so.

I propose a simple plan, one that can pacify the arguments most have.

An illegal is found in the country: Deport them, but not after clearly explaining to them the proper channels/process they must adhere to to gain legal admission.

Upon a second offense, execute them. No delay, no appeals, no "I wont come back, I promise". Clearly, a 2nd offense demonstrates a very active disregard for the law & custom of the country they are not a part of.

The very term itself: ILLEGAL ALIEN. They have no rights in this country, and are not protected by our constitution nor its amendments. People arguing that they should be are free to visit other countries illegally and see what kind of greetings they recieve when discovered.



Brilliant!

Actually, in regards to that "Distorts racial makeup of region", the First Nations were here first, so the original racial makeup is already 'distorted'. Blah. The world is not a static place, change is needed or atrophy sets in...let's 'distort racial makeups' in as many regions as possible!

A majority of immigrants coming from Mexico are al-quida terrorists, it may be small but one is too many, its one out of 1000, and there are 4000 illegal Mexican immigrants per DAY, so thats 4 terrorists every day, the Bush administration wants to let all illegal immigrants stay, live, and work in the US. And this is the president you want? Im sorry, use common sence.

That's so racist it's not even funny.
Someone says their little Mexican community was a decent place, you say racist.

OFK whines about white people losing their dominance to colored folk, and you are silent.

Brilliant!

Sigh. Can't you supremists buy an island somewhere and live in happy white isolation?

A majority of immigrants coming from Mexico are al-quida terrorists, it may be small but one is too many, its one out of 1000, and there are 4000 illegal Mexican immigrants per DAY, so thats 4 terrorists every day, the Bush administration wants to let all illegal immigrants stay, live, and work in the US. And this is the president you want? Im sorry, use common sence.


Not only is this true, this will be the origin of the next attack on America. This immigration must be stopped by any means necessary.

A majority of immigrants coming from Mexico are al-quida terrorists, it may be small but one is too many, its one out of 1000, and there are 4000 illegal Mexican immigrants per DAY, so thats 4 terrorists every day, the Bush administration wants to let all illegal immigrants stay, live, and work in the US. And this is the president you want? Im sorry, use common sence.
Let them work here if they go through the channels. I don't care what job they take if they take it legally. As long as we know who these people are and what they're up to, let 'em in. Don't let them vote or anything, but let 'em in.

My grandmother had to speak English before they'd let her in, she learned it while fleeing from Lithuanian communism. I really think we need work vouchers so they can build up a reputation with an employer, and allow people in who 1) speak English, 2) have someone to vouch for them (relative, employer, etc.), and 3) have a job lined up.
Actually, I think that the current migratory system of the US is a lot like that. Except for the English part, because the US doesn't have an official language.

So, that wouldn't stop illegal immigrants from getting in.

A solution could be making it harder for employers to hire illegal immigrants and increase the penalties for doing it. Just don't be surprised if an inflationary spiral results from that.

Sigh. Can't you supremists buy an island somewhere and live in happy white isolation?


You know, that plan for immigration makes sense--it would let them come in, through the proper channels, and if they don't wanna come through proper channels, they should be punished.

A majority of immigrants coming from Mexico are al-quida terrorists, it may be small but one is too many, its one out of 1000, and there are 4000 illegal Mexican immigrants per DAY, so thats 4 terrorists every day, the Bush administration wants to let all illegal immigrants stay, live, and work in the US. And this is the president you want? Im sorry, use common sence.

HAHAHAHAHHAHhAhAAAA!!!!!!!!! :D

Oh wait...are you serious?? "A majority are", "one out of 1000"? Where did YOU take math?

Someone says their little Mexican community was a decent place, you say racist.

OFK whines about white people losing their dominance to colored folk, and you are silent.
No, he says his Mexicans are better than anyone's Whites, Blacks, or Jews. Smells like bullshit to me. OFK is obviously racist, so it doesn't need to be stated.

A majority of immigrants coming from Mexico are al-quida terrorists, it may be small but one is too many, its one out of 1000, and there are 4000 illegal Mexican immigrants per DAY, so thats 4 terrorists every day, the Bush administration wants to let all illegal immigrants stay, live, and work in the US. And this is the president you want? Im sorry, use common sence.
ha, ha, ha. you're so funny!

Actually, I think that the current migratory system of the US is a lot like that. Except for the English part, because the US doesn't have an official language.

So, that wouldn't stop illegal immigrants from getting in.

A solution could be making it harder for employers to hire illegal immigrants and increase the penalties for doing it. Just don't be surprised if an inflationary spiral results from that.
The English part would. And that should be a requirement for everyone, if they want citizenship.

A solution could be making it harder for employers to hire illegal immigrants and increase the penalties for doing it. Just don't be surprised if an inflationary spiral results from that.

Not if you abolish welfare and the minimum wage.

Let them work here if they go through the channels. I don't care what job they take if they take it legally. As long as we know who these people are and what they're up to, let 'em in. Don't let them vote or anything, but let 'em in.

Wait...don't let LEGAL immigrants vote? Make them citizens, but don't let them have the same rights as those BORN in the U.S. !!!????

Well, since I'm half -Native, I say, all you squatters get off my land! Deport the lot of you! Now, I'm also half-Irish, so I guess I'll need to cut off a hand or a foot and lob it into the ocean, but that's the sacrifice I'm willing to make to get rid of you illegal immigrants!

Thats like saying this land belongs to the trees or the dinosaurs and that we should all go to live on an iceberg. This was once your land, BUT NOW ITS OUR LAND! From California, to the New York I... *slap* What'I do? But seriously, its our land, your lucky you still have the majority of Oklahoma, and your little trinket stands on the four corners. No, seriously, people ignore all of the land stolen in old Europe and Asia, but every time An American Indian come along its, oh Im so sorry for "raping" your land.

Wait...don't let LEGAL immigrants vote? Make them citizens, but don't let them have the same rights as those BORN in the U.S. !!!????

He didnt say make them citizens he just said let them work here.

Wait...don't let LEGAL immigrants vote? Make them citizens, but don't let them have the same rights as those BORN in the U.S. !!!????
No no. I'm saying if people just want to work here, like, commute from Mexico, let them do so. But make everyone have to go through the citizenship channels if they want some civil rights.

The English part would. And that should be a requirement for everyone, if they want citizenship.
Who cares, they can't fulfill the requirements right now so they go illegally. If you add English to the requirements they would still enter illegally. Get it?

And perhaps English should be required, but first it would have to become an official language.

You know, that plan for immigration makes sense--it would let them come in, through the proper channels, and if they don't wanna come through proper channels, they should be punished.

Yes, punished. Let's cut their heads off. Oh wait, you execute people in the U.S in a much kinder fashion...just stick that needle in. End. Of. Problem. :(

ha, ha, ha. you're so funny!

Its not supposed to be funny, you want the truth? YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH! Sorry, I just that movie and it was pretty good.

Not if you abolish welfare and the minimum wage.
Then don't be surprised if a good part of the population slides into poverty. Oh, and the inflationary spiral would become an unemployment spiral.

Who cares, they can't fulfill the requirements right now so they go illegally. If you add English to the requirements they would still enter illegally. Get it?
Yes, so when they enter illegally, send them back. When they enter a second time, give them a tattoo so they'll be more easily identified the next time. When they enter a third time, send them to a sweatshop.

And perhaps English should be required, but first it would have to become an official language.
I'm in favor of that.

Its not supposed to be funny, you want the truth? YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH! Sorry, I just that movie and it was pretty good.
Yes, it was a good movie. Doesn't make your previous post any true, nevertheless.

Then don't be surprised if a good part of the population slides into poverty. Oh, and the inflationary spiral would become an unemployment spiral.
The minimum wage is not a living wage. People on welfare are already in poverty. If anything, abolishing the two would give money to people who could actually use it.

No, he says his Mexicans are better than anyone's Whites, Blacks, or Jews. Smells like bullshit to me.
Please point out where he distinctly said his Mexicans were better than whites, blacks, and Jews.

All he did is defend a Mexican community from the common stereotype of gangs, drug dealers, etc.

OFK is obviously racist, so it doesn't need to be stated.
Okay.

It has nothing to do with jobs, it has to do with national security, respect for the law, and the cost of policing and providing medical aid to non-taxpayers.

It has nothing to do with any of those things. If our own foreign policy wasn't so mercantalistic and ethnocentric we wouldn't have them coming here in droves anyway. The UN world fund goes all over the world teaching about safe sex and population control. Bush cut their budget because if people in 3rd world countries go controling their populations then they won't send their kids to work in Nike sweatshops for 50 cents a day.

The only reason that they want to come here is that our foreign policies (and the policies of Europe and Japan) create such crushing poverty there. Remember the Guatamala invasion (there have been more recent examples, but this is the most documented). Guatamala didn't want to sell us bananas for pennies on the dollar, they wanted to grow rice and beans to feed their kids. Did we pay them enough money to buy the food we didn't want them to grow? No we bombed them and installed a dictator who let Dole keep growing bananas.

You can't take away everything these countries have and, at the same time, say that it's their fault that their countries suck and they should have to live with it.

HAHAHAHAHHAHhAhAAAA!!!!!!!!! :D

Oh wait...are you serious?? "A majority are", "one out of 1000"? Where did YOU take math?

yeah, that was kinda my bad, I had a word like majority, but I didnt write it, what could it have been? And if you dont get it, stop trying to get it, because this is NOT sarcasm, there is a word like Majority, that can mean any percent.

I think the relative acceptance of immigrants by the American empire is one of it's few good points. Many countries, even first world countries, hate immigrants, but Americans are usually very tolerant of many (though there are many immigrants that don't get treated so well). I think this acceptance of immigrants is something we should encourage.

Please point out where he distinctly said his Mexicans were better than whites, blacks, and Jews.

All he did is defend a Mexican community from the common stereotype of gangs, drug dealers, etc.

Explicited stated here:

If these folks replaced your neighbors you would instantly be in a better neighborhood.
Implicitly elsewhere.

Wow...
I´m impressed by this thread... in this thread only americans gave me reason to support terrorists attacks. You people are sick.

Please point out where he distinctly said his Mexicans were better than whites, blacks, and Jews.

All he did is defend a Mexican community from the common stereotype of gangs, drug dealers, etc.


Wait so you mean there something other than gangs and drug dealers? Oh yeah, they work in McDonalds, and Wendys, and are cashiers at Superfresh.

Sarcasm

The minimum wage is not a living wage. People on welfare are already in poverty. If anything, abolishing the two would give money to people who could actually use it.
So the poor people don't have any need for money or jobs?

If an employer doesn't have a minimum wage to pay, he'll go as low as he wants and since there will be a lot of poor people without welfare, they'll take it. People will be fired and rehired at a lower wage. That means wages will go down all across the board, which will leave people with less money to buy stuff, which means more lay-off, more poor, less wages... see where I'm going?

Thats like saying this land belongs to the trees or the dinosaurs and that we should all go to live on an iceberg. This was once your land, BUT NOW ITS OUR LAND! From California, to the New York I... *slap* What'I do? But seriously, its our land, your lucky you still have the majority of Oklahoma, and your little trinket stands on the four corners. No, seriously, people ignore all of the land stolen in old Europe and Asia, but every time An American Indian come along its, oh Im so sorry for "raping" your land.

You DO get that I was joking, no? And I loved that video! I don't ignore any land "stolen"...I just am a little more attached to my own part of the world (Canada, far, far from Oklahoma).

I think the relative acceptance of immigrants by the American empire is one of it's few good points. Many countries, even first world countries, hate immigrants, but Americans are usually very tolerant of many (though there are many immigrants that don't get treated so well). I think this acceptance of immigrants is something we should encourage.

Thank you for that compliment, if it wasnt sarcasm, which I dont think it is 99.99% sure. Anyway, I dont think were an empire...yet.

It has nothing to do with any of those things. If our own foreign policy wasn't so mercantalistic and ethnocentric we wouldn't have them coming here in droves anyway. The UN world fund goes all over the world teaching about safe sex and population control. Bush cut their budget because if people in 3rd world countries go controling their populations then they won't send their kids to work in Nike sweatshops for 50 cents a day.
There's no evidence suggesting those programs work. Besides, the UN is not America's responsibility, there's 200 other countries who could make up the difference. People like you, who assume everything bad is America's fault and everything good should be America's duty, are precisely the reason there are so many problems in our country.

The only reason that they want to come here is that our foreign policies (and the policies of Europe and Japan) create such crushing poverty there. Remember the Guatamala invasion (there have been more recent examples, but this is the most documented). Guatamala didn't want to sell us bananas for pennies on the dollar, they wanted to grow rice and beans to feed their kids. Did we pay them enough money to buy the food we didn't want them to grow? No we bombed them and installed a dictator who let Dole keep growing bananas.
Source?

You can't take away everything these countries have and, at the same time, say that it's their fault that their countries suck and they should have to live with it.
We have taken nothing from Mexico or Canada. Their problems are their own damn fault.

So the poor people don't have any need for money or jobs?

If an employer doesn't have a minimum wage to pay, he'll go as low as he wants and since there will be a lot of poor people without welfare, they'll take it. People will be fired and rehired at a lower wage. That means wages will go down all across the board, which will leave people with less money to buy stuff, which means more lay-off, more poor, less wages... see where I'm going?
Minimum wage is not a living wage. If you have a minimum wage job, you cannot support a household. We don't want people in these jobs. I see where you're going, and I'd like to bring you back to reality.

Explicited stated here:
He was trying to make a point. It didn't come across as racist to me, more along the lines of just sticking up for Mexicans (not surprising, considering the abuse OFK has hurled at them).

A solution could be making it harder for employers to hire illegal immigrants and increase the penalties for doing it. Just don't be surprised if an inflationary spiral results from that.

The practical problem there is that cops get their brownie points per arrest more than they get them for the importance of the arrests they make. It reflects better on them if they arrest a couple of illegal immigrants per month than if they arrest the people who hire them and all the illegal immigrants move on because there's no work. From a cop's point of view focusing on those who hire illegal immigrants is killing the golden goose.

The English part would. And that should be a requirement for everyone, if they want citizenship.

Personally I think that everyone should have to take the citizenship test when they turn 18. Including people who were born here. Not that you get kicked out if you fail it, but until you demonstrate that you know something about the place no voting no government hand outs or even government jobs.

He didnt say make them citizens he just said let them work here.

Let them work here if they go through the channels. I don't care what job they take if they take it legally. As long as we know who these people are and what they're up to, let 'em in. Don't let them vote or anything, but let 'em in.

Ok, so you're talking about the current migrant laws where you need a visa to work, but it doesn't guarantee you can stay?

He was trying to make a point. It didn't come across as racist to me, more along the lines of just sticking up for Mexicans (not surprising, considering the abuse OFK has hurled at them).
He shouldn't feel he has to stick up for Mexicans. I have no problems with them. I don't care if they live next to me, teach my kids, or work in my office. That's fine. What I do care about is when someone says that a certain group is inherently better or worse than another, which is exactly what he said, which is the exact definition of racism.

Yes, so when they enter illegally, send them back. When they enter a second time, give them a tattoo so they'll be more easily identified the next time. When they enter a third time, send them to a sweatshop.


I'm in favor of that.

Ah just skip all that and lead them straight to the sweatshops. Like the maquiladoras on the border.

Ok, so you're talking about the current migrant laws where you need a visa to work, but it doesn't guarantee you can stay?
There should be no guarantee that anyone, except a citizen, can stay.

Ah just skip all that and lead them straight to the sweatshops. Like the maquiladoras on the border.
No, I believe people can reform. However, being caught three times for the same offense indicates that that individual can or will not.

Personally I think that everyone should have to take the citizenship test when they turn 18. Including people who were born here. Not that you get kicked out if you fail it, but until you demonstrate that you know something about the place no voting no government hand outs or even government jobs.
Yes. I agree completely, to vote, hold office, get SS, etc., you should have to pass a basic citizenship test. How the EC works, how many stripes are in the flag, basic English, etc.

yeah, that was kinda my bad, I had a word like majority, but I didnt write it, what could it have been? And if you dont get it, stop trying to get it, because this is NOT sarcasm, there is a word like Majority, that can mean any percent.

Majority:
3 a : a number greater than half of a total b : the excess of a majority over the remainder of the total : MARGIN c : the preponderant quantity or share

Nope.

Thank you for that compliment, if it wasnt sarcasm, which I dont think it is 99.99% sure. Anyway, I dont think were an empire...yet.

It was a compliment. I'm no fan of the US, but if there is one thing it isn't, that is xenophobic.

He shouldn't feel he has to stick up for Mexicans. I have no problems with them. I don't care if they live next to me, teach my kids, or work in my office. That's fine. What I do care about is when someone says that a certain group is inherently better or worse than another, which is exactly what he said, which is the exact definition of racism.
I suppose you have a point. Still however, when confronted with racism, it is very natural to respond with racism in turn. There are different levels of racism though, some a lot more glaring. I don't think the poster intended to say all Mexicans are better than all Americans

I suppose you have a point. Still however, when confronted with racism, it is very natural to respond with racism in turn. There are different levels of racism though, some a lot more glaring. I don't think the poster intended to say all Mexicans are better than all Americans
Perhaps, but at the very least it was irrelevant to the topic at hand. Like Letilia said, most Americans don't have problems with foreigners, they have problems with illegals.

Wait so you mean there something other than gangs and drug dealers? Oh yeah, they work in McDonalds, and Wendys, and are cashiers at Superfresh.

Sarcasm

Yes, there is and one about the drug dealing issue, who do you think that buy drugs?
It´s rich people who buy drugs, an immigrant don´t have money to waste on something more then hemp for example, but who do you think that buy the cocaine? Go to a private school or some college and you will find out who is endorsing the drug dealers.
Now, a guy lives on a country where he is starving to death, he goes to america because of the "we are better then you" propaganda, when he gets there, people like you treat him like shit, when he does get a job, it pays a very insignificant money and he still being treated like shit because people look at him saying "get out of my land chicano". Drug dealing is the only job he can´t get where he can actually live like a decent human, but of course, it is a high risk job, if the minimium wage were enough to support this guy, he would never be dealing drug.

Yes, there is and one about the drug dealing issue, who do you think that buy drugs?
It´s rich people who buy drugs, an immigrant don´t have money to waste on something more then hemp for example, but who do you think that buy the cocaine? Go to a private school or some college and you will find out who is endorsing the drug dealers.
Now, a guy lives on a country where he is starving to death, he goes to america because of the "we are better then you" propaganda, when he gets there, people like you treat him like shit, when he does get a job, it pays a very insignificant money and he still being treated like shit because people look at him saying "get out of my land chicano". Drug dealing is the only job he can´t get where he can actually live like a decent human, but of course, it is a high risk job, if the minimium wage were enough to support this guy, he would never be dealing drug.
Yes he would. Drug dealing pays quite a lot. If he really had morals, he'd go back to where he came from, or get a real job.

Perhaps, but at the very least it was irrelevant to the topic at hand. Like Letilia said, most Americans don't have problems with foreigners, they have problems with illegals.
Agreed.

Illegal immigration is bad for everyone involved. However, instead of just clamping down on illegal immigration, I think legal immigration should be greatly expanded.

I think we should kill one out of every 10 we catch and send the other 9 off to forced labour camps but I know that will never happen to my sadness. But the best idea I have that could actually work is a giant wall.

(re:world fund)There's no evidence suggesting those programs work. Besides, the UN is not America's responsibility, there's 200 other countries who could make up the difference. People like you, who assume everything bad is America's fault and everything good should be America's duty, are precisely the reason there are so many problems in our country.

(re: guatemala invasion)Source? Any friggin history book! This is common knowledge. No one even denies it. But if you really don't know anything about this you can start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobo_Arbenz_Guzm%E1n).

We have taken nothing from Mexico or Canada. Their problems are their own damn fault.
We took Texas. We interfere in the affairs of Latin America and Africa far more than you seem to realize. Do you remember the whole Manuel Noriega thing? As for Canada, we have a problem with illegal Canadian immigrants? Other than Alanis Morrisette I didn't know anyone was complaining about them.

Yes he would. Drug dealing pays quite a lot. If he really had morals, he'd go back to where he came from, or get a real job.

And if rich kids had morals they would not buy the drugs.
And try you live with a "real job" or live in a country like Mexico, it´s not easy to live in these countries unless you are born rich and saying you have nothing to do with mexican politics is just cruel, because the country is only like that because of americans corporations, it´s very easy to go and cripple a country, but when the consequences of that poverty comes to YOUR country, you say "I have nothing to do with it", I know that you, personally, don´t have nothing to do with it, but, speaking as an american, you are only getting the consequences of your actions.

Any friggin history book! This is common knowledge. No one even denies it. But if you really don't know anything about this you can start here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobo_Arbenz_Guzm%E1n).


We took Texas. We interfere in the affairs of Latin America and Africa far more than you seem to realize. Do you remember the whole Manuel Noriega thing? As for Canada, we have a problem with illegal Canadian immigrants? Other than Alanis Morrisette I didn't know anyone was complaining about them.

In Brasil, during 1964 and 1985 we lived under a dictatorship, guess wich country endorsed it? When people here tried to rebel against the dictatorship government that wasn´t really that different from a Saddam-like dictatorship, guess wich country´s army came and helped the dictators? And while this happened, at lot of "loans" were made and even today we still own billions to US, billions that does not goes to schools or hospitals, but to US.
This repeated here, in Chile, in Argentina, in Mexico, etc etc etc... americans literally took over a lot of countries during the cold war and still today we feel it. Now, don´t come with "I have nothing to do with it", becuase it´s my money that paid your computer.

Holy crap! I was with you until the second offense thing...

As for visiting OTHER countries illegally...who has been executed for that? Feeling a little extreme today?
Always, when I see my country degrading. The point wasn't you'd get executed- but that the "1st offense" you had in another country would very likely be so bad as to persuade you to never do it again.

I see zero reason to permit people multiple offenses for such things. Death *solves* that particular criminal problem. They will either

A) Respect the laws, apply properly
B) Be caught and executed, or
C) Become so skillful as to elude notice entirely.

If C means they're learning the language and contributing to society.. I'll look the other way. Hopefully, somewhere along the way, they'll refer to option A and get that cleared up before B occurs.

Sigh. Can't you supremists buy an island somewhere and live in happy white isolation? As it was me that he replied to, I encourage you to re-examine my post. My concern has zero to do with the color carried by your genes, I didn't specify which country the offending illegals came from. I apply my disdain equally to all. That you assume I'm white (or would live under a white supremist willingly) shows a certain bias on your own behalf.

News Flash: Whitefolk ain't the only racists. :D

That's so racist it's not even funny.

Huh?

I'm saying you look down on these people because they have this legal status problem, when they are really above-average people.

Like I said, I lived there for four year. Zero crime, zero hassle, zero dirt and debris, all nice and friendly and helpful.

What's racist about that??

Providing medical aid to non-taxpayers: I'm not clear on all the ins and outs of the U.S medical system...I thought that unless you were insured, you can't get medical service? Who pays for illegal immigrants who need health services? Or are they denied services?

Actually one of the ways you can get free helth care in the US is under the Hill Burton Act...

The Hill-Burton Act is a federal program which requires “obligated facilities” (health care facilities including hospitals) that have used federal money for facility reconstruction or modernization to provide free or low cost health care services to people living in the facility’s area who cannot afford to pay for the services. To be eligible, a person must not be covered by, nor receive services under, a third-party insurer or a governmental program such as Medicaid or Medicare. If income is less than current Poverty Income Level, facility services may be free. If income is greater than but not more than double Poverty Income Level, services may be provided at full charge, reduced charge, or free. Check the individual notice of your facility. It is not necessary that applicants be U.S. Citizens. Patient need only have been living in the U.S. for a minimum of 3 months. (Note: Hill-Burton facilities must provide a specific amount of free care per year, but can stop services once they have given that amount.)

Minimum wage is not a living wage. If you have a minimum wage job, you cannot support a household. We don't want people in these jobs. I see where you're going, and I'd like to bring you back to reality.
I understood that, but what you fail to understand is that by abolishing minimum wage you won't be giving a decent living income to people. For that you would need to raise the minimum wage. If you eliminate the minimum wage you won't eliminate the jobs, just reduce the wages paid for them.