NationStates Jolt Archive

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.

I must admit, with the fervor and surity of your comments, I find myself compelled to ask... How is it you know so much about how successful the UN Sanctions were. Are you a UN official, or an Iraqi militray strategist, or are you making the usual assumptions of those who watch the news and take only that which they want to hear.

Make no mistake, I am not saying you are wrong, only that you have no way of showing you are right. Your adamance on your statements is telling.

How Ironic.
Its all just cause because of some stupid spoilt rich moron named George w Bush, he just wants to follow in daddies footsteps... what a clown.
America learn to vote... ;)

I must admit, with the fervor and surity of your comments, I find myself compelled to ask... How is it you know so much about how successful the UN Sanctions were. Are you a UN official, or an Iraqi militray strategist, or are you making the usual assumptions of those who watch the news and take only that which they want to hear.

Make no mistake, I am not saying you are wrong, only that you have no way of showing you are right. Your adamance on your statements is telling.


A report was released by the government a few weeks ago, a very comprehensive survey of iraq that confirmed iraq had no WMDs or WMD programs &c. Believe it was the "Duelfer Report." The report went so far as to state that the closest Iraq came to WMD programs was ''Intending to start WMD programs if the sanctions ended."

Interesting stuff, you ought to give it a read.

A good place to start would be the Central Intelligence Agency's website, specifically: http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.

No, Israel blowing the hell out of an illegal French processing plant in the early 1980's ended that. The sanctions were only a success to the French and Russians (and UN), as they pocketed billions in illegal oil sales and kickbacks. The only people affected by the sanctions were the citizens, who were denied the food and medicine the Oil-For-Food program was supposed to purchase. Saddam took that money (what the UN administrator didn't pocket) and bought weapons.

Yeah, that is a rousing success. God save us from more 'complete successes'.

No, Israel blowing the hell out of an illegal French processing plant in the early 1980's ended that. The sanctions were only a success to the French and Russians (and UN), as they pocketed billions in illegal oil sales and kickbacks. The only people affected by the sanctions were the citizens, who were denied the food and medicine the Oil-For-Food program was supposed to purchase. Saddam took that money (what the UN administrator didn't pocket) and bought weapons.

Yeah, that is a rousing success. God save us from more 'complete successes'.

The purpose of the sanctions was to prevent iraq from gaining either conventional or unconventional weapons and having the ability to threaten its neighbors.

In this, the actual aim of the sanctions, they succeeded completely.

You ought to read the Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq’s WMD. You can find it on http://www.cia.gov

Consequentially, george bush has saved us from 'complete success' by leading us into 'catastrophic success,' a euphanism for failure.

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.
But also...
The sanctions made people poor and powerless to protest against their dictator. Most of them were reliant on government food aid (you don't fight your government if it is the only source of food). Saddam gained more power and money. Thousands of corporations made business with Saddam disregard the sanctions.
Complete success?
I believe that without sanctions Iraqis would have liberated themselves.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

[QUOTE=New Granada]The report went so far as to state that the closest Iraq came to WMD programs was ''Intending to start WMD programs if the sanctions ended."

Sounds an awful lot like a plan to me...

Of course, you must be right though, I mean there couldn't have been weapons in Iraq...

Well, of course, except the thousands of mortar rounds and rocket propelled grenades that showered around our vehicles. I'm sure those were all brought in from Yemen the night before.

Now, I am more than happy to concede that the war itself was unwise. But as has been mentioned a thousand times since that became common knowledge... Now What Do We Do?

Unless all you have in life is "scapegoat" ethics

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.

Not sure if that qualifies for being ironic but I will say this: I think it would be ironic if everyone involved was made out of metal.

Those UN sanctions killed 500,000 children.

The purpose of the sanctions was to prevent iraq from gaining either conventional or unconventional weapons and having the ability to threaten its neighbors.

In this, the actual aim of the sanctions, they succeeded completely.

You ought to read the Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq’s WMD. You can find it on http://www.cia.gov

Not exatly. Yes, some of the sanctions were for that reason. And they were somewhat less than totally successful, or the GPS jammers Iraq used to divert our guided munitions would not have been there. Those were purchased from Russia.

Likewise, the other sanctions, the Oil-For-Food program, were a total disaster. Over it's life, Iraq was allowed something like $42.7 billion dollars, managed to snag an additional $10.1 billion in illegal revenues from the Oil for Food programme, including $5.7 billion in oil smuggled out of Iraq and $4.4 billion through surcharges on oil sales and illicit commissions from suppliers exporting goods to Iraq. This was supposed to feed the people, and supply medicine and so on. It did no such thing. Saddam used this for weapons and attempts to obtain nuclear material. This, the largest of the sanctions, and the one run by the UN, was an abject failure.

http://www.un.org/News/dh/iraq/oip/facts-oilforfood.htm

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.
How could success be a catostrophy? :confused:

No, Israel blowing the hell out of an illegal French processing plant in the early 1980's ended that. The sanctions were only a success to the French and Russians (and UN), as they pocketed billions in illegal oil sales and kickbacks. The only people affected by the sanctions were the citizens, who were denied the food and medicine the Oil-For-Food program was supposed to purchase. Saddam took that money (what the UN administrator didn't pocket) and bought weapons.

Yeah, that is a rousing success. God save us from more 'complete successes'.

Yeh, America's way is to bomb them all to death. Starving just take too long

How could success be a catostrophy? :confused:
Its a secret language made long ago in a book or two meaning total failure. Its a play on words so to speak.

How Ironic.
Its all just cause because of some stupid spoilt rich moron named George w Bush, he just wants to follow in daddies footsteps... what a clown.
America learn to vote... ;)
Before you slam President Bush for being rich, don't forget that Senator Kerry's bankroll, which he married into, is (literally) about x3000 that of Bush.

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.

Ironic? No, it is just yet one more bit of l evidence of why invading Iraq was wrong. Not that any more is really needed for those who care that the means did not justify the ends.

But also...
The sanctions made people poor and powerless to protest against their dictator. Most of them were reliant on government food aid (you don't fight your government if it is the only source of food). Saddam gained more power and money. Thousands of corporations made business with Saddam disregard the sanctions.
Complete success?
I believe that without sanctions Iraqis would have liberated themselves.

Iraquis, urged by the US government, tried to rebel against Saddam and liberate themselves towards the end of the Gulf War. Then the US pulled out and the rebels received the all-mighty smackdown of Saddam and his lads. So only two sides got out of that little incident reasonably well off.

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.

indeed!

remeber.. OIL

indeed!

remeber.. OIL

Is the US even getting oil from Iraq? If so, we would have a lot more and gas prices would be a lot lower.

Before you slam President Bush for being rich, don't forget that Senator Kerry's bankroll, which he married into, is (literally) about x3000 that of Bush.


Sorry, but I trust somone who married a rich woman 100x more than somone who was born a multi millionaire senator's grandson. Bush has no concept of personal responsibility, it is why he and his govenment paint him as infallible.

Is the US even getting oil from Iraq? If so, we would have a lot more and gas prices would be a lot lower.


The iraqis have decided not to permit the US to steal the oil that it wants.

They keep blowing up the oil pipelines and oil facilities, most likely using the weapons they appropriated while american invaders were protecting said pipelines and facilities shortly after the invasion.

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.

When someone refers to a "hick preacher" and “whitetrash” in his first sentence, you can discredit him as a bigot and ignore him.

How Ironic.
Its all just cause because of some stupid spoilt rich moron named George w Bush, he just wants to follow in daddies footsteps... what a clown.
America learn to vote... ;)

WELL actually, bushy boy did not follow in his dady's footsteps but in his daddy's friends footsteps...

to sum it up briefly, In 1991 president Bush senior announced the end of combat operation in Kwait, iraq's army was defeated and kwait was free again... After the collapse of the soviet union (evil empire) the neo-conservative party was looking for a new enemy, that enemy was saddam the "evil dictator" (ex-best friend of the USA) after his invasion of kwait- .. during the liberation the neo-conservatives in government wanted to push on to baghdad to defeat the evil man. Bush sr. did not want to as he wanted to mearly free kwait and wanted to use america's military and economic strength, stabilise the world, noe beliving in good and evil.. the image created in the cold war or soviets evil west good- not to defeat nucesces like saddam so he ordered a halt to the operations... annoying the neo-conservatives. Now little bush is in government, that easily manipulated and not very bright man, the conservatives are using him to finish what they started regardless of successful UN sanctions and weapons checks before the invasion. Bush senior was no longer in power, but bush senior's bitter friends were still in government- manipulating idiotic bushy boy.

Is the US even getting oil from Iraq? If so, we would have a lot more and gas prices would be a lot lower.

no not to plunder oil... but to secure* a source- using saddam as an excuse and not to forget personal prejudices

Perhaps the most obscene irony of the iraq debacle is this:

For all the bush government railing and the hick preacher railing and whitetrash radio railing against the United Nations, the fact is that the UN sanctions placed on Iraq succeded in ending her nuclear ambitions and ambitions for WMDs.

There were no weapons, no programs to make them and no plans to make programs. The no-fly zone and other programs neutered Hussein's ability to attack his neighbors.

The sanctions were not a failure and not a "catastophic success."
They were a complete success.
Several mobile factories were found in Iraq capable of producing chemical pathogens...empty warheads were found in underground storage facilities...
this evidence means nothing to you?

Of course they weren't found within 50 miles of each other, Saddam isn't that stupid.

Several mobile factories were found in Iraq capable of producing chemical pathogens...empty warheads were found in underground storage facilities...
this evidence means nothing to you?

Of course they weren't found within 50 miles of each other, Saddam isn't that stupid.
so NO report out of the government could possibly convince you? you have some secret source that the cia knows nothing about?

i dont get it. OUR government has said there were no wmd, no programs for wmd and no way to start programs for wmd. they would dearly like it to be the other way, that they say it isnt is more than enough to convince me.

it was very struck by the report that saddam had to PRETEND to have more stuff than he had because he was afraid that if he looked weak it would make him vulnerable to attack from iran.

Several mobile factories were found in Iraq capable of producing chemical pathogens...empty warheads were found in underground storage facilities...
this evidence means nothing to you?

Of course they weren't found within 50 miles of each other, Saddam isn't that stupid.

don't you mean ambulances? ;)