NationStates Jolt Archive

These verses are taken directly from the Bible and show that Christianity and Communism are one in the same.

The multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Acts 4: 32.

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Acts 2:44-45

This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat. Ex. 16:16-18

The administration of the will of God in his kingdom on earth, will be the same as the administration of his will in heaven. Matt. 6:10

That in the kingdom of God, every loyal citizen is subordinate joint-owner with God of all things. Rev. 21: 7.

Acts 4:34 - 5:11 reads:

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and the distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Whiles it (Land) remained, was it not thine own? And after it (land) was sold, was it not in thine own power? Why hast thou conceived this thing (ownership of land) in thine heart? Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Christians, what do you think?

Christians, what do you think?

Personally, I think youd be better off picking on the devil.

Personally, I think youd be better off picking on the devil.

I'm a Christian myself. I am not picking on anybody, just trying to set the facts straight.

Ah, so Jesus was a Communist pig-dog? Secretary, get some crosses! We're going to legalize free enterprise and then BURN THE CROSSES! :sniper:

Ah, so Jesus was a Communist pig-dog? Secretary, get some crosses! We're going to legalize free enterprise and then BURN THE CROSSES! :sniper:

We should all follow Jesus' Teachings and live in a Communism.

Very true, CM. Christians seem to think that capitalism is moral, even though it is based on greed and selfishness.

Very true, CM. Christians seem to think that capitalism is moral, even though it is based on greed and selfishness.

So is socialism.

So is socialism.

Are you saying that both Socialism and Capitalism are based on greed. If that was true then we should all just give up and go back to living in caves.

Socialism does not support greed. However, some Socialist leaders have became greedy and misuded their power. No different than George Bush or Pope Urban II.

For some reason, I believe other forms of gov't (like socialism and communism) aren't all that bad, as long is the right people are leading it. I guess they're just easily manipulated by bad people, so that's what they go for. Where's my proof? None, just that it hasn't happened yet. Have you ever seen any leader who is seriously peaceful and deeply concerned about the people(and aren't delusional or mentally ill), and believe these forms of gov't are the way to go about it?

For some reason, I believe other forms of gov't (like socialism and communism) aren't all that bad, as long is the right people are leading it. I guess they're just easily manipulated by bad people, so that's what they go for. Where's my proof? None, just that it hasn't happened yet. Have you ever seen any leader who is seriously peaceful and deeply concerned about the people(and aren't delusional or mentally ill), and believe these forms of gov't are the way to go about it?




canada

Neither capitalism or socialism are christian.

The christian ethos of sharing is based on "Love your neighbour as yourself" not on compelling people to share as socialism does.

Capitalism is not christian either, because it is based on greed.

-----------

Another one for you all, if "You shall not kill" and "Love your neighbour as yourself" how can you agree with your country sending an army to kill people?

canada

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:D :D :D :D :D :p :p :p

You're interpreting the bible much, much too literally.

Another one for you all, if "You shall not kill" and "Love your neighbour as yourself" how can you agree with your country sending an army to kill people?

and above poster, how is you shall not kill to be taken any other way than literally? it doesent say you shall not kill unless.. just wondering how you can say tou shouldn't take that literally? :D

It upsets me that Christians think that being a Capitalist is moral, when in fact it goes against the Teachings of Christ.

Christians, what do you think?




Hell no, I ain't no commie but I sure am a Christian.

Hell no, I ain't no commie but I sure am a Christian.

Did you read the verses I posted?

A Capitalist Christian is an oxymoron.

Did you read the verses I posted?

A Capitalist Christian is an oxymoron.



But I know I'm not a Communist. My friend used to be a communist christian but he found the two cannot mix and abandoned communsim.

But I know I'm not a Communist. My friend used to be a communist christian but he found the two cannot mix and abandoned communsim.

The two do mix quite well.

Tell your friend to look into the Hutterites. They are a group of Christian Communists that live in the American West, and they number in the tens of thousands.

IDIOTS!!!

I'm so sick of people getting this wrong! Jesus did not condone communism, he was actually an avid supporter of National Socialism! SIEG HEIL CHRISTIAN BROTHERS!

It upsets me that Christians think that being a Capitalist is moral, when in fact it goes against the Teachings of Christ.

you'd think that the fact that money changers and usurers and merchants were the only thing jesus ever got violent about would be something of a giveaway, wouldn't you?

or that whole "camel through the eye of the needle" thing, for that matter.

Very true, CM. Christians seem to think that capitalism is moral, even though it is based on greed and selfishness.
Actually, people are greedy and selfish. Apparently only God could get them to overcome that weakness. Also, you should note that they gave up ALL material items. Therefore, they had nothing to share afterwards. Therefore, it was not Communism, because everyone had nothing but was happy. Oh, wait...

Shit, I just proved him right...

And I'm not even Communist. Hmm, what an interesting way of looking at it. I would, however, point out that it lost its applicability once Jesus was not there to motivate people to be less selfish.

IDIOTS!!!

I'm so sick of people getting this wrong! Jesus did not condone communism, he was actually an avid supporter of National Socialism! SIEG HEIL CHRISTIAN BROTHERS!
That was either sarcastic or frightening.

The two do mix quite well.

Tell your friend to look into the Hutterites. They are a group of Christian Communists that live in the American West, and they number in the tens of thousands.



I know for a fact I'm not a Communist, so we can debate until our faces are blue on whether the rest of the 2 billion Christians int he world are.

I could be wrong, but doesn't Communism also encourage Atheism?

I could be wrong, but doesn't Communism also encourage Atheism?



It does, if you follow what Marx said.

Communism is eventual, it will happen sometime in the future when most of the manual labour is taken care of by machines and people will only be left with concerns of the social and mental kind. There is almost no choice, it has to happen or we as a species will fall apart.

I could be wrong, but doesn't Communism also encourage Atheism?

No, that was just the Soviets.

Karl Marx did say that religion was the opium of the masses. However, Karl Marx was a Jew that was forced to convert to Christianity to escape persecution. You can see why he was disgusted with religion. The Catholic Church also excommunicated all Communist in the Catholic Church in the 1830's.

American Communists http://www.cpusa.org support the freedom of religion but feel that it should be left out of government. In fact, several preachers are members of the American Communist Party.

Communism is eventual, it will happen sometime in the future when most of the manual labour is taken care of by machines and people will only be left with concerns of the social and mental kind. There is almost no choice, it has to happen or we as a species will fall apart.

Good point. However, Capitalism could persist and billions upon billions of humans would starve to death in the future.

No, that was just the Soviets.

Karl Marx did say that religion was the opium of the masses. However, Karl Marx was a Jew that was forced to convert to Christianity to escape persecution. You can see why he was disgusted with religion. The Catholic Church also excommunicated all Communist in the Catholic Church in the 1830's.

American Communists http://www.cpusa.org support the freedom of religion but feel that it should be left out of government. In fact, several preachers are members of the American Communist Party.




You seem to be trying to force Communism on us because I'll have the same reaction Marx did when Christianity was forced on him, "The hell with this".

It does, if you follow what Marx said.

It's not a requirement. I support free religion, but I am wary of big organised ones.

Good point. However, Capitalism could persist and billions upon billions of humans would starve to death in the future.

Well, thats kinda my point, Capitalism = A lot of people starve and die int the future because of the situation they were born into. So thats not a very good thing, yeah...no

Hell yeah, socialism or death :sniper: :mp5:

Hell yeah, socialism or death

You could argue that its the human version of natural selection, except its about 10 times more unfair than the original kind, but hell, that's life, deal with its crap or die a slow painful deat in a gutter.

interesting thread, maynard.

our friends here seem unable to digest the verses you posted. its not a matter of interpretation, its telling about how they LIVED. in their religious community they practiced a kind of communism. i guess you would call it primitive communism

this doesnt mean that they would ever have supported STATE communism but perhaps its a suggestion of how they would expect all christians to live their private lives

this doesnt mean jesus = marx, lenin, trotsky, mao, stalin, castro, etc

It's not a requirement. I support free religion, but I am wary of big organised ones.


Hey there Kanabia, are you still planning on going to Quebec?

Listen, some of what Jesus did could be "interpreted" as Communism, although I see him as more of a Socialist. But that fact of the matter is that he said other things like "Give to Caeser what is Caeser's and give to God what is God's", showing that he still wasn't a full fledged "Tourch the Romans" kind of guy and hence did not have the ideals of even peaceful revolution to remove the Romans from Jerusalem and Nazareth, unlike Ghandi, who had a peaceful revolution to free India, although he wasn't a Communist either.

Hey there Kanabia, are you still planning on going to Quebec?

Thinking of it, yeah. I'll see how much money I earn over the Christmas holidays (Double pay, whoo :))

But that fact of the matter is that he said other things like "Give to Caeser what is Caeser's and give to God what is God's", showing that he still wasn't a full fledged "Tourch the Romans" kind of guy and hence did not have the ideals of even peaceful revolution to remove the Romans from Jerusalem and Nazareth, unlike Ghandi, who had a peaceful revolution to free India, although he wasn't a Communist either.

then again, that quote comes because jesus saw that the pharisees were trying to trick him, so he gave them his own tricky answer - note that he didn't say that it is right and good and just to pay taxes. he said that the coins all belong to ceasar in the first place and are not god's. now this can be taken to mean that we should pay taxes, but i think the idea jesus was slyly getting across is that christians should remove themselves from the whole system - let ceasar have his money, it is not worth anything.

Thinking of it, yeah. I'll see how much money I earn over the Christmas holidays (Double pay, whoo :))



At least it will be warm there (compared to Western Canada) although you'll find it cold. I can't complain though, I'll be in Mexico for two weeks at Christmas

then again, that quote comes because jesus saw that the pharisees were trying to trick him, so he gave them his own tricky answer - note that he didn't say that it is right and good and just to pay taxes. he said that the coins all belong to ceasar in the first place and are not god's. now this can be taken to mean that we should pay taxes, but i think the idea jesus was slyly getting across is that christians should remove themselves from the whole system - let ceasar have his money, it is not worth anything.



All major religions say the material world is a waste, infact that is the problem that Hindus and Buddhist especially see.

At least it will be warm there (compared to Western Canada) although you'll find it cold. I can't complain though, I'll be in Mexico for two weeks at Christmas

Considering i've never seen snow in my life, i'll probably be in for a bit of a shock. I'm cold now and it's 16 degrees C, LOL

...anyway, bump back on topic.

Most of those Bible passages are taken from the Old Testiment talking about specific situations. The Old Testament is good to study but in cases of confliction the New Testament overides it as it is the instructions to the world after Jesus came.

How is God being communist? You don't understand, EVERYONE not just those who choose to believe this but everyone in the world who ever did and ever will live has sin and deserves to be eternally seperated from God as he cannot coexist with sin.

However, He loves us so much he sent His only begotten son Jesus to take the punishment of our sin so that whomever accepts the gift may be saved.

God wanting us to accept His gift is anything but communism.

Most of those Bible passages are taken from the Old Testiment talking about specific situations. The Old Testament is good to study but in cases of confliction the New Testament overides it as it is the instructions to the world after Jesus came.

Now I'm not the biggest bible-basher around, but I do believe that only one of those (from Exodus) is Old-Testament.

This goes back to that whole Feed The Masses With A Loaf and Fish thing doesn't it?

:D

These verses are taken directly from the Bible and show that Christianity and Communism are one in the same.

The multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Acts 4: 32.

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Acts 2:44-45

This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat. Ex. 16:16-18

The administration of the will of God in his kingdom on earth, will be the same as the administration of his will in heaven. Matt. 6:10

That in the kingdom of God, every loyal citizen is subordinate joint-owner with God of all things. Rev. 21: 7.

Acts 4:34 - 5:11 reads:

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and the distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Whiles it (Land) remained, was it not thine own? And after it (land) was sold, was it not in thine own power? Why hast thou conceived this thing (ownership of land) in thine heart? Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
i decided that the orignal post was being ignored

so what about these passages ISNT communist?

Most of those Bible passages are taken from the Old Testiment talking about specific situations. The Old Testament is good to study but in cases of confliction the New Testament overides it as it is the instructions to the world after Jesus came.
Most are taken from the Old Testament? Really? Now here I thought the Gospel of Matthew (Telling the story of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection), the Acts of the Apostles (Takes place AFTER Jesus's Death and Resurrection), and Revelations (Prophesy about the end of the world, ALSO takes place after the Resurrection) were from the NEW Testament. Exodus is from the Old Testament, so I guess that you just redefined the term "Most".


How is God being communist? You don't understand, EVERYONE not just those who choose to believe this but everyone in the world who ever did and ever will live has sin and deserves to be eternally seperated from God as he cannot coexist with sin.

However, He loves us so much he sent His only begotten son Jesus to take the punishment of our sin so that whomever accepts the gift may be saved.

God wanting us to accept His gift is anything but communism.

Sooo.... because God wants to save everyone (which Calvin, Luther, and St. Augustine would seem to disagree with, by the way) he can't possibly be advocating communism? Why's that? I mean, there are surely people who know far more about communist theory than I do, but when you're talking about a theory that advocates an equal redistribution of goods, how God's desire to save everyone can disagree so totally with it is beyond me. He, after all, wants all people to be equally saved, right? Some people aren't supposed to be more saved than others. Now, if you took the approach of quoting Augustine, saying that "For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" you may have made a decent argument of it. Men are not all equal before God's eyes, therefore, and he chooses some to be saved through his grace, but leaves the rest to be damned. Therefore God does NOT advocate equality, because not all can be saved.

Most are taken from the Old Testament? Really? Now here I thought the Gospel of Matthew (Telling the story of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection), the Acts of the Apostles (Takes place AFTER Jesus's Death and Resurrection), and Revelations (Prophesy about the end of the world, ALSO takes place after the Resurrection) were from the NEW Testament. Exodus is from the Old Testament, so I guess that you just redefined the term "Most".




Sooo.... because God wants to save everyone (which Calvin, Luther, and St. Augustine would seem to disagree with, by the way) he can't possibly be advocating communism? Why's that? I mean, there are surely people who know far more about communist theory than I do, but when you're talking about a theory that advocates an equal redistribution of goods, how God's desire to save everyone can disagree so totally with it is beyond me. He, after all, wants all people to be equally saved, right? Some people aren't supposed to be more saved than others. Now, if you took the approach of quoting Augustine, saying that "For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" you may have made a decent argument of it. Men are not all equal before God's eyes, therefore, and he chooses some to be saved through his grace, but leaves the rest to be damned. Therefore God does NOT advocate equality, because not all can be saved.




God isn't politically assosicated with any party or any ideal. They are his own and all these other ideas have been of human creation only.

Jesus wasn't a communist. Communists wouldn't turn the other cheek. If he was a communist he would fill Noah's arm with intercontinental ballastic missiles and threaten caesar with nuclear anihilation.

No kidding? *innocent smile*

Man I've been saying it for yeeeeears, now. Yup. He was a Commie, all right. And a longhair, too. I'm willing to bet most Americans would have him run out of their gated communities for wearing a bedsheet and not using pitrub, never mind the message he might be preaching.

God isn't politically assosicated with any party or any ideal. They are his own and all these other ideas have been of human creation only.
Okay, but these excerpts from the Bible (which is a useless document, as far as I'm concerned, except that it can be an entertaining read) include descriptions of how the Apostles lived together, sharing all things in common. Now, if they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit in this particular case, shouldn't good Christians follow their example? I don't believe it is Communism as we understand it, no. Communism is about a redistribution of wealth, and Christianity is, ideally, about renouncing any desire for wealth at all. There's a subtle difference there that I hope you all get.

Jesus wasn't a communist. Communists wouldn't turn the other cheek. If he was a communist he would fill Noah's arm with intercontinental ballastic missiles and threaten caesar with nuclear anihilation.
OKay, so Jesus would travel forward in time to the 20th or 21st century, where he would steal ballistic missiles. Then, he would travel back in time, to a point in "history" where the world was covered in water because God was angry, and fill a mythical boat with said missiles. Then, he would go forward in time again, taking the boat and the missiles with him to his own time. After arriving back home, he would threaten the Roman Emperor with nuclear weapons, assuming that Tiberius had the first clue what the hell he was talking about. Of course, it's not like the years 25-33 CE actually had the right kind of facilities Jesus might like to have if he was going to launch one of these missiles, because, let's face it, he's not launching it off a boat, the thing will catch on fire, but let's ignore that for a minute....

The gist of this is that communists are time-travelling, missile stealing, demigods? How the HELL did they lose the Cold War? Coudn't they just have, like, gone into the distant future and grabbed a ray gun to incinerate the US or something?

Are you saying that both Socialism and Capitalism are based on greed. If that was true then we should all just give up and go back to living in caves.

I've slept in a cave. It's actually not all that bad. Can we wear fur loin clothes to. (I'm tired, I'm not trying to be rude, just funny in a haven't slept for 48+ hours sort of way) on that note, night all.

The gist of this is that communists are time-travelling, missile stealing, demigods? How the HELL did they lose the Cold War? Coudn't they just have, like, gone into the distant future and grabbed a ray gun to incinerate the US or something?

Maybe thats what they did. And we'll all know in 10 years.

:D

It does, if you follow what Marx said.
But Marx wasn't Communist, he was Socialist.

Jesus was an Anarcho-pacifist. :D

Unfortunately, I can't see this (very) interesting thread having any effect on our American friends, who have been so indoctrinated against the 'evils' of Communism, they are unable to accept any good in it.
I just read this thread and from what I could see, the original post was a simple statement, with various proofs, that Jesus followed a path of mutual ownership, respect for each other's property and ensuring no-one suffered unduly due to not having enough. This can best be termed true Communism in todays' terms.
And what happens? We get every knee-jerk McCarthyism reaction, from 'I sure as hell ain't Communist!' to 'Stalin killed millions and hated Religion' to 'Communists wanted to destroy the World' etc etc etc. <Yawn>
You're missing the whole point!! The point being is that Jesus was against exploitation of others and wanted a fair society where everyone gets an adequate slice of the pie.
I don't believe in God, but even I can appreciate that sentiment.

Very true, CM. Christians seem to think that capitalism is moral, even though it is based on greed and selfishness.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's."

Also -- how are you accessing the internet again? ;)

Another one for you all, if "You shall not kill" and "Love your neighbour as yourself" how can you agree with your country sending an army to kill people?

and above poster, how is you shall not kill to be taken any other way than literally? it doesent say you shall not kill unless.. just wondering how you can say tou shouldn't take that literally? :D
well, for one thing it is stupid to take the ENGLISH translation literally, since the original meaning of the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" passage had quite a different meaning in its original language; it was "Thou Shalt Not MURDER," and there's a world of difference between killing and murder...the Bible specifically outlines numerous cases in which KILLING is just fine with God, many of which we would consider murder today.

Christians, what do you think?

This is your faulty and biased interpretation; Christ says clearly many times that his Kingdom is not of this earth but is the kingdom of heaven.

All major religions say the material world is a waste, infact that is the problem that Hindus and Buddhist especially see.


This argument is the same one the Orthadox Church in Russia handed out -- forget now, it will be better in the afterlife -- and perpetuated years of oppression and abuse.

A question to all who say they are not Communist, but are Christian. Are you a good Christian? Even if yes, the fact that it is assumed we all sin explains why we aren't more or less communist. But, trashing all I said, I don't think a government was ever mentioned. I believe it would not be communism, but anarchic utopia under Christ the king.

I respectfully disagree.

"But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, have an abundance for every good work. As it is written: 'He has dispersed abroad, He has given to the poor; His righteousness remains forever.' Now may He who supplies seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and multiply the seed you have sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness, while you are enriched in everything for all liberality, which causes thanksgiving through us to God" (2 Corinthians 9:6-11)

In this quotation from the bible it is stated that God loves a cheerful giver and not neccesarily one who gives under compulsion.

Communism and socialistic policies require that we give and there is generally a penalty for not giving...thus making the giving compulsary and not as heart-felt as required for it to be considered a noble act and thus pleasing to God. He doesn't want you to be forced to give, he wants you to help others because you want to.

I personally think God does not favor any government system over any other.
It's the individual people and their thoughts, actions, and intentions he's worried about, not the organization by which they choose to unify themselves.

We'll be rewarded each according to his individual works, some being rewarded more than others. If anything, that's capitalistic.

Lets look at the individual Jesus Christ. This REAL man has more strength than all those groups and gangs of weaklings that followed one another during that time. They had a group or community that only followed one another and knew nothing about leading. Jesus leads and has shown the real value in leading. Real people lead and not follow. When you take a group of individual leaders and bind them together with their strength nothing can break that binding. Yes strength is within a family of leaders but it began with the strength of one: Jesus. With the guidance with God there is no gang of people out there that can defeat you. They will only expose your strength as an individual. When you look at a Church you will not find any followers, you actually find a bunch of leaders! Understanding and loving leaders!

Yes, well those verses are all well and good. But Acts is describing the apostolic ministry, and the verse from Exodus describes a particular situation. They are both quite out of context.

More instructive is Matthew 25:14-30, wherein Jesus instructs us - all Chistians generally- how to live in the period after his ascension and prior to his second coming.

25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
So you see, not only does Jesus want us not to “share” what we produce, he even advocates taking productive capital from the lazy and wicked and giving it to the most successful. A complete opposite to the modern “progressive” income tax.

This is not to say that we are not to do good works, and give charity to the poor, but on the other hand it is hardly a communist outlook.

Consider also: "God gives us power to get wealth, that the covenant will be established." Deuteronomy 8:18. Which is a more general instruction that Ex. 16:16-18, which is really about how to share manna in the desert.

So is Jesus a communist. No. And nor is God. What’s more the bible says so explicitly.

In this quotation from the bible it is stated that God loves a cheerful giver and not neccesarily one who gives under compulsion.

Communism and socialistic policies require that we give and there is generally a penalty for not giving...thus making the giving compulsary and not as heart-felt as required for it to be considered a noble act and thus pleasing to God. He doesn't want you to be forced to give, he wants you to help others because you want to.

no they don't. certainly not communism, anyway. in fact, my desired form of socialism (my own particular brand of anarchism) would be based off the gift economy. and that statement is exactly the sort of thing people living under gift economies historically believed.

I respectfully disagree.

"But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, have an abundance for every good work. As it is written: 'He has dispersed abroad, He has given to the poor; His righteousness remains forever.' Now may He who supplies seed to the sower, and bread for food, supply and multiply the seed you have sown and increase the fruits of your righteousness, while you are enriched in everything for all liberality, which causes thanksgiving through us to God" (2 Corinthians 9:6-11)

In this quotation from the bible it is stated that God loves a cheerful giver and not neccesarily one who gives under compulsion.

Communism and socialistic policies require that we give and there is generally a penalty for not giving...thus making the giving compulsary and not as heart-felt as required for it to be considered a noble act and thus pleasing to God. He doesn't want you to be forced to give, he wants you to help others because you want to.

I personally think God does not favor any government system over any other.
It's the individual people and their thoughts, actions, and intentions he's worried about, not the organization by which they choose to unify themselves.

We'll be rewarded each according to his individual works, some being rewarded more than others. If anything, that's capitalistic.

BNo, if anything he is a fascist. All for the state, one with state. Doing your best for the betterment of the state.

Replace state with Heaven and you have Jesus's philosophy.

Hitler had the right idea but he misused it.

Communism/fascism are closest to the basic idea with fascism being the better of the two. Fascism is capitalism with you wirking for the betterment of state in all things.

Jesus Christ is certainly what we would call a socialist, and possible what we would call a communist (small c), but definitely not what we have come to know as a Communist (large C).

And it seems to me that this thread was intended to incite flaming.

Jesus Christ is certainly what we would call a socialist, and possible what we would call a communist (small c), but definitely not what we have come to know as a Communist (large C).

And it seems to me that this thread was intended to incite flaming.

Nope. Matthew 25:14-30. Not a socialist at all. :). Not even close.

Christians are obviously evil.

Here is how I see it.
It may be partly socialism, but not communism. Communism is a more brutal form of socialism, enforced with dictators and excessive violence.
Also, those passages imply that we should try to help our fellow people here on Earth, but in Heaven, all people are equal (and that we should strive for such peace on Earth, even though it won't be obtained). There may be similar elements to socialism, but that political ideal wasn't even invented yet when the Bible was written.

Communism is clearly the ideal government, and I agree that Jesus' message is largely lost on Christians.

HOWEVER, there are huge flaws with communism. The biggest one is that no one is rewarded for exceptional effort. If you were really good at something, you'd want to be rewarded for it. Human nature is to get ahead.

But then you weight that against the huge flaws in capitalism as well. How large a social safety net do you create to catch those will inevitably slip through the cracks of capitalism?

I wish the US was more socialist. There are really huge inequalities in this country. If you think blacks and women have equal opportunities in the USA, you are wrong.

Capitalist christian interpretation of the bible is thus: It says what we want to read.

BNo, if anything he is a fascist. All for the state, one with state. Doing your best for the betterment of the state.

Replace state with Heaven and you have Jesus's philosophy.

Hitler had the right idea but he misused it.

Communism/fascism are closest to the basic idea with fascism being the better of the two. Fascism is capitalism with you wirking for the betterment of state in all things.

The idea is that God knows what is best for you. If God is running the show the world government sure isn't going to be a democracy. Hence God's Kingdom.

Christians are obviously evil.

Or you just don't understand what good is. Either one. Jesus advocates killing children for their sins. And also believes that babies go to hell. But he is all good. (Imaculate conception and all), so what's that about.

Jesus Christ is certainly what we would call a socialist, and possible what we would call a communist (small c), but definitely not what we have come to know as a Communist (large C).

And it seems to me that this thread was intended to incite flaming.


I agree completely.

There is a difference between communism as a concept (Marx and Engles were alright dudes) and Communism as it was practiced in the Soviet Union. The first years after the communist revolution in Russia were pretty cool. Everyone was poor, but there was a very Bohemian and creative atmosphere in the country. Then came the dictators. Say the right buzz-words and the people barely notice they suddenly have no rights.

Jesus obviously wouldn't stand for a brutal police state. But charitable socialism is cool.

Capitalist christian interpretation of the bible is thus: It says what we want to read.

I quoted direct and unambiguous scripture. It is clear that Jesus wants us to take from the unsuccessful and give to the rich. Not even capitalist. More feudal if anything.

Lets look at the individual Jesus Christ. This REAL man has more strength than all those groups and gangs of weaklings that followed one another during that time. They had a group or community that only followed one another and knew nothing about leading. Jesus leads and has shown the real value in leading. Real people lead and not follow. When you take a group of individual leaders and bind them together with their strength nothing can break that binding. Yes strength is within a family of leaders but it began with the strength of one: Jesus. With the guidance with God there is no gang of people out there that can defeat you. They will only expose your strength as an individual. When you look at a Church you will not find any followers, you actually find a bunch of leaders! Understanding and loving leaders!

Yeh thats why the Catholic Church was been the instrament in more mass killings and horrid deeds than anyone expect possibly tha Nazis. It all comes down the the way people have defiled the words of God for there own agenda over many centuries. If there every was any truth in the Bible it is lost between the prejiduces and judging of people. You can use the Bibles many conflicting verses to support or rail against anything. As the old saying goes, "Even the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose." ;)

I quoted direct and unambiguous scripture. It is clear that Jesus wants us to take from the unsuccessful and give to the rich. Not even capitalist. More feudal if anything.

Sorry, I probably should have just said "most interpretation is thus", because it is not limited to any one group of people, but is just the way religion is used.

i've looked at the evidence, and have concluded that yes, jesus was communist. i think the answer to the whole problem is to revert to communism throught the world and recieve spirtiual enlightenment via our moral and spiritual leaders. haha. i make myself laugh. look at it this way. what's seriously going to be done about this? i mean, is somebody from nationstates going to go up to big dubya and say "hey, we need to revert to communism." i want to be there to see how long he lasts without being shot in the face. so, the solution to this whole problem is simple. shut up and quit whining. when i rule the world, i might consider reverting to communism, though i do believe that socialism is better. remember this message. one day it will be famous.

-devo

Marxist Communism and any type of Communism based off Marx, can't be Christian because Marx's Communism is atheist. Remember he said "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Any type of Marxism is inherently anti-religious and athiest.

As for the Bible, it tends to a support a communilist capitalism.

Christians are supposed to be charitable and look after the poor and the needy, but there is nothing where it says this is supposed to be forced by the state, it is supposed to be an act of generousity due to love, not a forced act due to compulsion by the government.

Christians are also supposed to be as one, eating together and sharing everything they own with each other. A church is supposed to be a community of Christian individuals living communally with each other. So the church is supposed to be very communalist.

But Christians are supposed to obey earthly authority and render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's. So if a government is socialist/communist than a Christian is suppose to pay there taxes and obey the government.

There is also a verse in Paul's letters where it says that someone who doesn't work shouldn't eat. This is the capitalism part. Everybody should work and earn their own wages.

As for capitalism being based on greed, it is. That is the best part of capitalism, it turns an evil thing like greed and makes it work as a greedy person will work hard and contribute to society so as to gain more wealth. Capitalism also allows private charity.

Socialism is based on greed as well. Socialism is just the greed of the masses as they take from the rich to line their own pockets. But under socialism/communism we have the common goods problem. If everybody gets what they need no matter what than each individual is best off not contributing as they will get what they need and not have to work for it. But when this happens en masse than the whole society suffers as nothing is being produced.

Given the natural tendencies towards evil and laziness in humans the best conclusion is a capitalism with a fascist-style social safety net.

total bull. socialism is the only way.

i've looked at the evidence, and have concluded that yes, jesus was communist. i think the answer to the whole problem is to revert to communism throught the world and recieve spirtiual enlightenment via our moral and spiritual leaders. haha. i make myself laugh. look at it this way. what's seriously going to be done about this? i mean, is somebody from nationstates going to go up to big dubya and say "hey, we need to revert to communism." i want to be there to see how long he lasts without being shot in the face. so, the solution to this whole problem is simple. shut up and quit whining. when i rule the world, i might consider reverting to communism, though i do believe that socialism is better. remember this message. one day it will be famous.

-devo

Isn't communism the idea that everyone should be equal in everyway including the leader who addresses people as "Comrade?" Jesus would not be an equal but King over us. A theocracy really.

ah, but did not jesus come down from a heavenly throne so that he might be made of flesh? was he not called the "son of man"? tell me, other than in a spiritual sense, in what way was jesus better than us?

It upsets me that Christians think that being a Capitalist is moral, when in fact it goes against the Teachings of Christ.

I admit you have many good points. But there is also a few writings that translate sorta like the capitalist motto. Talents, or the Parable of the Talents or summat.

Which is why I think Christians should be moderate. Not Communist. Not Capitalist. Moderate, but maybe leaning a little to the left.

Which would make the government have a free market economy with some socialism. Which I like. But there should be rules and regulations in place to keep people from abusing the socialism.

But that's enough from me.

brilliant. i will now let you people sort out your own problems without my guidance. have a good day.

-devo

Sorry, I probably should have just said "most interpretation is thus", because it is not limited to any one group of people, but is just the way religion is used.

NP.

I was really just pointing out that saying things like Jesus was a communist socialist ect. is plain silly. Also that most of the verses that are used to support this notion are quoted horribly out of context and there more evidence to support the opposite. Which is why so many conservative christians believe the opposite. (And if nothing else they do tend to memorize the bible moreso than others).

Interestingly enough though there is a group of Anabaptists in the Dakota's (I think) called the Hutterites who actually do live in communes and have prohibitions against any form of personal wealth or property everything is shared. Sort of anarcho-communist Amish if you will. Go figure.

ah, but did not jesus come down from a heavenly throne so that he might be made of flesh? was he not called the "son of man"? tell me, other than in a spiritual sense, in what way was jesus better than us?

He was God incarnate and without sin, but those are both spiritual. In physical terms he was the son of a carpenter, who became a carpenter ,then quit his carpentry to travel throughout Israel and preach, living on the road with his disciples, and relying on the generosity of others for food. Then he was captured and killed like a criminal because some of the elites thought he was a trouble-maker and a rabble-rouser. So in material terms he was never rich adn wasn't really better than anybody else.

does utracia not have anything to say?

He was God incarnate and without sin, but those are both spiritual. In physical terms he was the son of a carpenter, who became a carpenter ,then quit his carpentry to travel throughout Israel and preach, living on the road with his disciples, and relying on the generosity of others for food. Then he was captured and killed like a criminal because some of the elites thought he was a trouble-maker and a rabble-rouser. So in material terms he was never rich adn wasn't really better than anybody else.


hmm.. yes thank you. now, what is the basic idea behind communism, anyone?

You're interpreting the bible much, much too literally.
I agree. Christianity may have some things in common with communism, but it is definitely not identical. For one thing, Christians are only required to give 1 tenth of what they have, not everything; this isn't possessed by the government, it is used by God to help others who are less fortunate. I don't have a Bible with me right now or I'd quote the verse...

I agree. Christianity may have some things in common with communism, but it is definitely not identical. For one thing, Christians are only required to give 1 tenth of what they have, not everything; this isn't possessed by the government, it is used by God to help others who are less fortunate. I don't have a Bible with me right now or I'd quote the verse...

Leviticus 27:30

Communism-"any econonic theory or system based on the ownership of all property by the community as a whole"

like what is taught in the Bible

However this is not what most people think of communism, which is actualy Marxism, where the community is ruled over by one man who really owns everything and the community doesn't. You see, in true communism, everyone owns everything so no one ever has a need that can be met. In Marxism, one man or a few own everything.

25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
...
25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

first off, it's a parable about using what god gives you for the glory of the kingdom of heaven, not a command to get into investment banking. anyone happen to know if the word 'talent' is actually translated (as opposed to transliterated) from the original name for the coin? in other words, was jesus making a pun?

secondly, the third servant bit has always confused me. is it really saying that the kingdom of heaven is like a man who takes what is not rightfully his and that engages in usury? because usury is supposed to be a fairly severe sin, and i seem to recall a certain jesus of nazareth going a bit old testament on moneychangers and merchants.

I agree. Christianity may have some things in common with communism, but it is definitely not identical. For one thing, Christians are only required to give 1 tenth of what they have, not everything; this isn't possessed by the government, it is used by God to help others who are less fortunate. I don't have a Bible with me right now or I'd quote the verse...

Actualy, Christianity requires everything that you are and have, as a Christian you are part of a family, and in families you work so that everyone in that family is supported and happy. You cant give 10% of your life or earnings to God, you give everything and by that you are living for Him, otherwise you are just paying a tax to the church. Every action a Christian makes is for God, so everything you do or buy should be for Him.

For one thing, Christians are only required to give 1 tenth of what they have, not everything

matthew 19:16-29

Ok, I'm gonna say this ONE last time, Christianity isn't communism. I don't care if you find a quote from Jesus that sounds remotely like communism, he wasn't, people who follow the religion aren't and God isn't. God gave us free will and communism tries to remove that and even our individuality, so they may have similarities but they are not one in the same.

Capitalist christian interpretation of the bible is thus: It says what we want to read.

Hmm hmm, yes. Even the devil can quote scripture.

Hmm hmm, yes. Even the devil can quote scripture.



Exacty, thats how he tried to trick Jesus in the desert.

first off, it's a parable about using what god gives you for the glory of the kingdom of heaven, not a command to get into investment banking. anyone happen to know if the word 'talent' is actually translated (as opposed to transliterated) from the original name for the coin? in other words, was jesus making a pun?

secondly, the third servant bit has always confused me. is it really saying that the kingdom of heaven is like a man who takes what is not rightfully his and that engages in usury? because usury is supposed to be a fairly severe sin, and i seem to recall a certain jesus of nazareth going a bit old testament on moneychangers and merchants.

Actually its a parable about how we are to behave in the interregnum, if you will, not about using what God gives you for the glory of the kingdom of heaven. Also How can you miss the bit about the "master" approving the use of the usuary, a clear nod to investment banking. Remember if you really believe in Christ he is infallible. He's not going to send mixed signals. He would have said you would be better off trying to use it for a purpose it is not meant, and only gaining a little from it. (Which funnily enough is how it was later justified that usuary was a sin, which is wrong.) This is not the case. Jesus is clearly telling us that interest bearing bonds are better than no entreprenurial spirit whatsoever.

In any event, if it was about God given gifts it would make no sense you silly. If that was the case Jesus would have made a parable about the servants who were trained in trades by their Master. Then you could have had the productive scribe, the industrious carpenter and the lazy seamstress. That would make much more sense. People read far to much metaphor into parables. It's like how the Good Samaritan has become about helping stangers, which isn't right either. Its a parable about Taking wealth and increasing it. And also how the lazy should have their wealth taken off them. For being lazy. People get offended and dress it up, but that's how it is.

I have no problem with advocacy of socialism/capitalism whatsoever. But this whole we should be socialists because that's what Jesus wants is silly and disingenous. Really.

And I also suppose that if Jesus was a socialist, then socialists advocate the killing of children too. Because Jesus did that as well.

Ok, I'm gonna say this ONE last time, Christianity isn't communism. I don't care if you find a quote from Jesus that sounds remotely like communism, he wasn't, people who follow the religion aren't and God isn't. God gave us free will and communism tries to remove that and even our individuality, so they may have similarities but they are not one in the same.

By that logic any system of government is antithetical to Christianity and so is any law. One could argue, abortion is bad but not having abortions because you aren't allowed to isn't good, it's motivated by self interest.

Communism is an economic theory, not a political structure, and it is about the most Christian one there is, except neolitic agrarianism which is essentially communist by default. Jesus instructs us to do all we can to help those around us, including giving them our resources if they are without resources of their own. If you claim that laws that mandate that behavior are antithetical to Christianity then NO law can be based on Christian principles (a concept I have no problem with by the way) but if a law can be based on Christian principles then that's what communism is.

Of course, Communism as it existed in China and Russia are antithetical to Christianity because they outlawed it. But that was political authoritarianism not economic communism.

Marxist Communism and any type of Communism based off Marx, can't be Christian because Marx's Communism is atheist. Remember he said "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Any type of Marxism is inherently anti-religious and athiest.

Democracy was invented by Pagan Greeks.

Does that mean that Christians can't be Democratic because it is Pagan? NO!

I agree. Christianity may have some things in common with communism, but it is definitely not identical. For one thing, Christians are only required to give 1 tenth of what they have, not everything; this isn't possessed by the government, it is used by God to help others who are less fortunate. I don't have a Bible with me right now or I'd quote the verse...

It is quite simple. The Bible speaks of the Kingdom of God not the People's Republic of God. The Bible says nothing about a Politburu but Jesus Christ ruling over us and we all follow the rules in the Bible or else, for everyones benefit. Theocracy, religious monarchy, whatever.

It is quite simple. The Bible speaks of the Kingdom of God not the People's Republic of God. The Bible says nothing about a Politburu but Jesus Christ ruling over us and we all follow the rules in the Bible or else, for everyones benefit. Theocracy, religious monarchy, whatever.

Yes C.S. Lewis wrote a whole long boring essay about what a perfectly Christian society would be like. It wasn't communist in the slightest.

The idea is that God knows what is best for you. If God is running the show the world government sure isn't going to be a democracy. Hence God's Kingdom.

God is all accepting, understanding and loving. I have never met someone that was killed from being understood. Have you? When we execute people we do it because we do not understand there actions. Gods kingdom from my understanding is without labels, without formalities and all about peace. That would lead me to believe that every individual out there is equal. It would mean that power no longer is defined by anything but the power of love.

Look at it this way, we all have bad credit, we all are sinners yet we all were forgiven by christ when he sacrificed for our sins. To understand that vindictiveness brings only more vindictivness is just the same as when we fight fire with more fire. We are all left with more vindictive fire. Lose +(unless that + is for gracefull loss) Lose still equals LOSE. Wrong plus Wrong = WRONG. Ever wonder why a + means positive, thats because the cross + is positive. Think about it. If we would start looking at the Positives instead of all the negatives, we will find the answer. I believe. I know. I love us all

Some of You guys have to realise that when the bible speaks about 'Kingdom Of Heaven', he never meant it to be on 'EARTH'. Or at least not yet.

However I do think that 'Kingdom of Heaven', is somewhat communistic. A monarch system, where GOd sits on the throne, and there is no lack. (Or there would be no deficit).

Communism as it is right now, cannot exist because our world cannot support our necessitiies.

And.. Human leaders are infallible. God Isn't.

It's true about God knows whats best for you statement.

But God isn't running the show at the moment.

Some of You guys have to realise that when the bible speaks about 'Kingdom Of Heaven', he never meant it to be on 'EARTH'. Or at least not yet.

However I do think that 'Kingdom of Heaven', is somewhat communistic. A monarch system, where GOd sits on the throne, and there is no lack. (Or there would be no deficit).

Communism as it is right now, cannot exist because our world cannot support our necessitiies.

There's nothing communistic about a monarch system. A monarchy means that the king owns everything and if you want a share you have to come to him for it. Communism means everyone shares everything. That system of economics hasn't existed in significant numbers in thousands of years. That was the new stone age.

There are enough resources out there to make sure that everyone has enough but, human nature being what it is, there is no way to make sure that everyone gets a share. If everyone new everyone else, like in an isolated community of about 50 households that wouldn't be a concern because whenever anyone was in trouble (wolfs ate his sheep, or hunting accident or whatnot) everyone would help out. They know that next time it could be them that needs help and they can tell whether or not the guy in trouble was likely to have brought it on himself. The original welfare state.

Now we're all against welfare because people of means tend keep to ourselves and we don't know why the poor are poor, but we're quick to believe that it's because they're lazy, stupid, and looking for a free ride.

OKay, so Jesus would travel forward in time to the 20th or 21st century, where he would steal ballistic missiles. Then, he would travel back in time, to a point in "history" where the world was covered in water because God was angry, and fill a mythical boat with said missiles. Then, he would go forward in time again, taking the boat and the missiles with him to his own time. After arriving back home, he would threaten the Roman Emperor with nuclear weapons, assuming that Tiberius had the first clue what the hell he was talking about. Of course, it's not like the years 25-33 CE actually had the right kind of facilities Jesus might like to have if he was going to launch one of these missiles, because, let's face it, he's not launching it off a boat, the thing will catch on fire, but let's ignore that for a minute....

The gist of this is that communists are time-travelling, missile stealing, demigods? How the HELL did they lose the Cold War? Coudn't they just have, like, gone into the distant future and grabbed a ray gun to incinerate the US or something?

Your criticism of my completely sacracistic post is completely buffoonish, but then again my replying to it is probably 10 times as buffoonish. If jesus was who he claimed to be, of have course traveled into the future stolen nuclear weapons and anhiliated the Roman empire. According to Catholic dogma Jesus is God and God is Jesus. Since God is omnipotent he could do what ever the fuck he felt like. If Communists had existed back then, they certainly wouldn't act like a bunch of long haired sissy babies like jesus and his crew and let people like the Romans push them around. When the Nazis killed 20 million soviets in WWII the red army fought back and took over half of Europe. When the US carpet bombed Vietnam, the Vietnamese kicked the US's sorry ass. Of course if Jesus was actually God he could have simply sent an army or angels or something to topple the Roman empire rather than using time travel although he could have if he wanted--remember he brought people back to life and all, but that is beside the point.
Secondly You said that I said that Jesus was a communist. Actually I clearly said he wasn't a communist. But then you make the logical fallacy of saying that if jesus, a demigod, was a communist then communists are demigods. Thats like saying if michael jordan a basketball player can leap 3 feet vertically, then every basketball player can leap 3 feet vertically or if Kropotikin a Russian prince was an anarchist, all russian princes were anarchists. That is just silly.
By the way the USSR lost the cold war because the rulers thought they would get flashy sportscars and microwave ovens if they switched to capitalism. Now everyone in Russia is starving and dying of AIDS and terrorists are killing school children. Sucks to be Russian.

canada
Which is neither socialist nor communist.

Jesus died long before people bickered about "OMG its an evil godless degenerate atheist commie kill, kill!!!!!1"


If only I were to live in the day before people decided that it was a good idea to label every single ideology and assume that just because some people have a few things in common with a particular philosophy than they must be of that philosophy.

Jesus died long before people bickered about "OMG its an evil godless degenerate atheist commie kill, kill!!!!!1"

If only I were to live in the day before people decided that it was a good idea to label every single ideology and assume that just because some people have a few things in common with a particular philosophy than they must be of that philosophy.

I agree but that doesn't mean that making a world of no more labels and formalities is not possible. Remember anything is possible! I have faith and I believe and slowly but surely I will know. If I am given the time to give for this cause that is, I will become to fully understand. If not I pray someone else will come along and finish the work that is long over due (jmho). I just think it is wrong for people to have faith in a labeled system such as capitalism,socialism,communism, and every other label out there. It all started from two. Two individuals and grew to societies and countries and so on. The forbidden fruit could be argued to be in todays society as another woman and sin continues on and on until someone with the balls (or in todays sense lack of, since being manly now has begun to mean being an asshole) to stop it.

The problem is that this means that somebody came up with the idea that justified vindictiveness is actually justified. It is not. It breeds more hate and more pain. If we could truly just be forgiving and accept other peoples lifestyles and understand why they live those lifestyles. This of course does mean we would have to understand that there can be no more lying(to significant others) cheating(on significant others) and stealing (life,dignity,and other peoples significant others). There is much more that I am missing but all I want is a start in the positive (+) direction. When we say bring it on, it should mean bring on the love, not more hate. If we truly would not harm anyone else from here on out and did what we wanted to do and allowed others to do what they wanted to do (without harming another in process) then we would have it made.

All I have to say to every man on this entire freaking earth is watch the movie what women want. Now I used to think I was the dumbest man on this earth, now I just know that I am only one of many. Give what a woman wants and everything you want in this entire world will be given to you in return. Equality is truly a key to this puzzle just to give a small hint. Also remember that only a womans touch could bring that real feeling of love that you felt when you were a child. I dont mean to knock any guys out there that love there man I know that in Gods country there is no formalities and there shouldn't be. Only acceptance and understanding of what love is all about.

Which is neither socialist nor communist.

Canada has Socialized medicine, which is muh better than the American Healthcare system where pray that you don't get sick is the only method for 46 million American citizens.

:( Capitalist - the best deal

:mad: Communist - no deal at all

:p Wouldn't big J be somewhere in the middle, with a fair deal?

Capitalist - the best deal

Is that why 1.5 Billion people live in extreme poverty ($50 a year income) due to Neo-Colonialism (exploitive capitalism)?

Capitalist = best deal for some + screw the majority of people over.

(True) Communist = not necessarily easy or nice deal for all, but at least a fair and equal and realistic deal for all. If we all shared everything, chances are that everyone in this forum would lose a lot, because i can garuntee you that you are all in the top 5% of the worlds richest (you have to be, if you own a computer). Of course, if you are a christian...then you shouldnt mind in the slightest losing some to give to others.

I don't care if jesus was a commie I am not going to be one.

If you are a christian...then you shouldnt mind in the slightest losing some to give to others.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all teach loving your neighbor and giving charity to the poor. Sadly, most religous people are content with only helping themselves out.

If Christians really acted like Christians, then we wouldn't need Communism to solve all of the world's economic problems.

I think You forgot the biblical quote adopted by the cp= "Give according to ability, receive according to necessity."

More instructive is Matthew 25:14-30, wherein Jesus instructs us - all Chistians generally- how to live in the period after his ascension and prior to his second coming.

25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
So you see, not only does Jesus want us not to “share” what we produce, he even advocates taking productive capital from the lazy and wicked and giving it to the most successful.

You are wrong on your interpretation. This parable is about the kingdom of heaven and NOT about money, as it clearly states at the beginning and is taught by all ministers.

This is a call to evangelize and to spread the word of God and to bear the fruit of the Lord. Not a commandment to "go forth and profit."

Jesus is not a Ferengi!

(Also note that Jesus is our living God, one aspect of the Holy Trinity so ppl should stop referring to Him with "was")

Yes C.S. Lewis wrote a whole long boring essay about what a perfectly Christian society would be like. It wasn't communist in the slightest.

CS Lewis was a reactionairy apologist for the status quo who was also against women having a role outside the home.

Granted his books and stories are amazing, but his punditry was rooted in a very conservative understanding of the world.

(I say punditry because he was a frequent radio speaker who did the circut promoting a conservative ideogoly and there are several collections of his thoughts out there you can still get)

God is all accepting, understanding and loving. I have never met someone that was killed from being understood. Have you?

Indeed, nor have I ever met anyone who was killed for another reason. I wonder why that is?

Hmmm.....

During Jesus' time on Earth, he was not a Communist since Marx invented the concept in the 1800s (he may be now of course). However, it is pretty clear that Marxism is rooted strongly in the teachings of Jesus. Without Christianity there would not be Communism - a social system strongly based on the ideals of Jesus and highlighted throughout the New Testament including in the examples posted at the beginning of this thread.

One thing is for certain, Jesus IS NOT in favor of a hierarchical system based on the accumulation of wealth, greed and money.

Neither capitalism or socialism are christian.

The christian ethos of sharing is based on "Love your neighbour as yourself" not on compelling people to share as socialism does.

Capitalism is not christian either, because it is based on greed.

-----------

Another one for you all, if "You shall not kill" and "Love your neighbour as yourself" how can you agree with your country sending an army to kill people?

Precisely.

Only in America we're slaves to be free.
Only in America we kill the unborn to make ends meet.
Only in America sexuality is democracy.
Only in America we step on God, in the God we trust.

Church bells ringing, pass the plate around
the quior is singing as thier leader falls to the ground.
Please Mr. Prophet man tell me which way to go
I gave my last dolar, can I still come to your show.

What is right or wrong, I dont know who to believe in
My soul sings a difirent song, in America.

I am right and you are wrong
No one is right and no one is wrong in America
-an American

Humanity has tried everything from, dictatorships, hegemony, socialism, democracy, ect - and the worst part of it is that any of these couldve worked like every other political system tryied through out human history if only it wasn't managed by greedy, power hungry, self-important men.

Indeed, nor have I ever met anyone who was killed for another reason. I wonder why that is?

Hmmm.....

Because you cant meet the dead - not while theyre not alive anyway - you can only study the history of an individual and what survives the person.

And what you can surmize if you take a large enough sample of humanity in your study is that there are reasons while some should be put to death - but also that, if you truely trust in the Almighty, vengeance belongs to the lord. And that his son commisioned us to Love, not to kill. Not even those deserving of a good killing.

Observe the greatest commandment of all, Trust the Almighty in spirit and truth, AND Love your neighbor.

If you can really do this - than you really are a Christian, and the demand for fundamentalist of any belief set dies and so does the supply of such people.

Capitalism isn't about greed, it's about the harder you work, you should be payed more.

Capitalism isn't about greed, it's about the harder you work, you should be payed more.

What if people who are born in the ghetto in the city or up a holler in Appalachia?

Their chances of success slim to none.

Capitalism isn't about greed, it's about the harder you work, you should be payed more.

Only that doesn't happen in capitalism

Capitalism is about personal greed, and the belief that one should do everything one can in order to get cash-no matter what it does to others.

Democracy was invented by Pagan Greeks.

Does that mean that Christians can't be Democratic because it is Pagan? NO!


Thank you, you just proved my point. I and many others I know are democratic christians, not communists. Also, hard work should be rewarded over laziness, thats just common sense.

These verses are taken directly from the Bible and show that Christianity and Communism are one in the same.

The multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Acts 4: 32.

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Acts 2:44-45

This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat. Ex. 16:16-18

The administration of the will of God in his kingdom on earth, will be the same as the administration of his will in heaven. Matt. 6:10

That in the kingdom of God, every loyal citizen is subordinate joint-owner with God of all things. Rev. 21: 7.

Acts 4:34 - 5:11 reads:

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and the distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Whiles it (Land) remained, was it not thine own? And after it (land) was sold, was it not in thine own power? Why hast thou conceived this thing (ownership of land) in thine heart? Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


jesus isnt a commie! he's a nazi! www.jesusishitler.com

I wonder if Joe McCarthy would go after Jesus...

jesus isnt a commie! he's a nazi! www.jesusishitler.com



Fake and full of bs that website is.

Fake and full of bs that website is.
no! you think?!?!?!?! (end sarcasm)

no! you think?!?!?!?! (end sarcasm)



Well if I didn't point it out, some extremist might have and they may have gone on a rant. Oh sh*t, speak of the devil.

Well if I didn't point it out, some extremist might have and they may have gone on a rant. Oh sh*t, speak of the devil.
what? is united white front here?...oh, no,wait, thats probably his favourite website.

what? is united white front here?...oh, no,wait, thats probably his favourite website.



Mhm, he is or I thought he was.

I wonder if Joe McCarthy would go after Jesus...

McCarthy probably would. He is the reason why so many Americans are brainwashed into thinking that Socialism is evil.

But God isn't running the show at the moment.

If God was running the show we'd be living in a Communism.

However, a Communistic Government awaits us at teh doors of Heaven.

the bible isn't the absolute truth people, it was written by man, a jealous man, not faxed down from heaven. things were BSed, although it does have truth.

besides, if heaven is paradise, and by the xeamples set by russia and china, and the fact that god made man in his image, then technically you'd be going to some goulog when you die

amazing how out of context you can use the scriptures.
These verses were not advocating communism, but giving. This was merely giving to the church and the church giving to those who needed help. It is the same today, people give tithes and the church often gives money to its members as they need it.

And Capitalism is not based on greed, it is based on success, which means doing our best, because we are motivated.

The best economical countries are ones that have a population that mostly believes in hell or is religious, so says a recent study.

If you go into communism and socialism, you take away motivation, therefore people cannot become their best, and the Bible says whatever you do to "Do it heartily as unto the Lord."

Not to mention the fact that Communism is extremely atheistic.

amazing how out of context you can use the scriptures.
These verses were not advocating communism, but giving. This was merely giving to the church and the church giving to those who needed help. It is the same today, people give tithes and the church often gives money to its members as they need it.

And Capitalism is not based on greed, it is based on success, which means doing our best, because we are motivated.

Not to mention the fact that Communism is extremely atheistic.

Read the Bible verses again. It clearly shows that God wants people to share all their wealth communaly, Anneis and his wife even died because they wouldn't share their land and money with others.

Capitalism is greed. What would you say to a starving child in Peru to get her motivated?

Modern Communists parties are very liberal. We believe strongly in Freedom of Religion and Seperation of Church and State. There are even a few preachers in the American Communist Party.

No no you still have the story wrong.
Annanias and Saphira died because they sold their things, and only gave some to the church, but said they gave all. They died because they lied, Peter even says "why have you lied to God?" and that is when annanias died, then saphira saw him dead then she died. So again you took it out of context.

If you can never gain a career, or even if you do you simply work for the government and get paid no more than other people, what is the point of doing it? There is no ladder of jobs or the like to climb, nothing to gain but a government job. No competition, no motivation.

And tell Fidel Castro that there is a God and see what he says.

I think your all getting the wrong and of the stick here. Jesus may have been a socialist I don't known. He was not however a communist.

At least 4 people have quoted the bible so I will quote the communist manifesto by Karl Marx.

"Relgion is the opiate of the masses"

Whether he was right or wrong he believed that religion was used to keep proletarian workers oppressed. The idea if they worked hard this life and conformed they would go to heaven or reincarnate as a higher being or whatever. Therefore religion is an invention of the ruling classes to control the workers.

So if you believe in god you are not a believer in marxist theory.

So if jesus was a communist he could not believe in himself.

So he wouldn't have been bothered to be a bit of a pain in the arse to the ruling Jews and get nailed to a tree.

So he either doesn't exist or does exist but is a bit of a left-winger and not a communist.

Thank you very much and good night.

besides, if heaven is paradise, and by the xeamples set by russia and china, and the fact that god made man in his image, then technically you'd be going to some goulog when you die

I think GOD might be able to run a communism a little better than the Russians or the Chinese.

So what jesus was a comi? Commusim is supposed to be good but its not because people don't follow how jesus want it to be.....

So if you believe in god you are not a believer in marxist theory.

maybe, maybe not. you don't have to believe everything marx said to call yourself a marxist. and just because religion as currently practiced and run might be used as opium for the masses, it does not necessarily follow that it must always be so.

but the bigger problem with your argument is that marx did not invent communism. communism predates marx, and there are non-marxist communists around today - just as there were when marx lived. the inspiration for marxist communism came partly from earlier christian communism. after all, there is a reason why marxism has been called a christian heresy.

Another one for you all, if "You shall not kill" and "Love your neighbour as yourself" how can you agree with your country sending an army to kill people?

and above poster, how is you shall not kill to be taken any other way than literally? it doesent say you shall not kill unless.. just wondering how you can say tou shouldn't take that literally? :D

Actually, it's Thou Shalt not MURDER, not thou shalt kill. The bible says there is a time for war and a time for peace.

You should take the Bible literally, but you should do your research and try not to misinterpret it.

You can't compare the church to a communist government. Jesus and his disciples were part of a CHURCH. They were still under the government set up at that time, the church was completely seperate, as it is now. You know, seperation of church and state and all that.

How dare the congregation share things?

No no you still have the story wrong.
Annanias and Saphira died because they sold their things, and only gave some to the church, but said they gave all. They died because they lied, Peter even says "why have you lied to God?" and that is when annanias died, then saphira saw him dead then she died. So again you took it out of context.

No, you have read it wrong. Peter asked Annanias if it was his when he had it in his possesion and if it was his when he sold it. This is not referring to Annanias lying to God,

It is a lie to say that you own anything when God owns everything.