NationStates Jolt Archive

I already know that both Tactical Grace and Stephistan are anti-Israel. From threads in which they posted) but are there any pro-Israel mods? If so, why don't you post on the Israel debates?

What difference does it make? If we are, why should we be obligated to 'even out' every debate under the sun by taking different sides? Moderators are just like any other player in the sense that their opinions on political matters don't count for more than yours.

Just keep in mind, just because I disagree with Israel, does not mean I am anti-jewish or an anti-semite, because I'm not. I have real problems with the way Israel does things. I have no problem at all with Jewish people. I just wanted to make that clear.

Yeah, on a similar note, just because I have a problem with how the American government does things doesn't necessarily mean that I have a problem with the American people. ...and that's a good thing, because if I had a problem with the American people, then, being an American, I'd have to go bomb myself. ...or something.

...the logic is not working out, here....

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

Just keep in mind, just because I disagree with Israel, does not mean I am anti-jewish or an anti-semite, because I'm not. I have real problems with the way Israel does things. I have no problem at all with Jewish people. I just wanted to make that clear.

Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.
Let's be very careful with what we're talking about, here.

What, exactly do you mean by "against Israel"? That's a very vague statement and needs to be very clearly defined before taking this discussion any further. I contend that one can object to Israeli policies without objecting to the right or priviledge of Israel to exist.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

...


I will also point out that this discussion does not belong in "Moderation" unless you want to make a specific accusation regarding Moderator conduct.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

woah, dr martin luther king is wrong

(im jewish btw)
as much as i dont want to, i have to back up stiphistan. being anti-israel is not being anti-semetic. i too, dont agree with all of israelis policies


side note, how do i get into the JDA? (jewish defense alliance)

Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.
I was born Jewish and am raised by Jewish parents, and I am a moderate anti-zionist, so you're wrong. And I'm not a self hating Jew (Rightist term for Jews who don't think their people are the elect of the world necessarily)

You know, there are a lot of pro-Israel nations out there (like my whole region). I think that Melkor hit it right on the head. We don't need to even out any arguement just because someone is offended. Thats just whet we don't need in these days (political correct CRAP). If we had someone who was offended by something for everyone, then things would be dead here because everything would be DEATED!

Quote:

-Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.

Are you saying that i can´t criticize because then I am anti-semitic? Or can´t I criticize Zionists? :confused: :eek:

From the Magnificient of Ussel Mammon

What I mean when I say "against Israel" (and what I believe Dr. King meant) is if you are against Israel's right to exist as a nation, you are anti-semitic. Israel was created so Jews could have a place to go to in order to be free from persecution. It is not only for Jews, since many Muslims and Christians live there. Although, I will admit, Israel is not entirely blameless for the current conflict with the Palestinians (and Israel is not exactly winning hearts and minds by bulldozing homes of Palestinians, a practice I would be against), it is a free, democratic nation (even Palestinians are allowed to vote and own guns, so long as they are peaceful and many Palestinians want Israeli citizenship), where the Palestinian Authority of Yasser Arafat rules over the Palestinians under the Authority like a dictator. All of this talk about a separate Palestinian state is anti-semitic because the Palestinians would only demand more concessions and they would "concession" Israel into the sea.

Just keep in mind, just because I disagree with Israel, does not mean I am anti-jewish or an anti-semite, because I'm not. I have real problems with the way Israel does things. I have no problem at all with Jewish people. I just wanted to make that clear.
How can you have a problem with teh way Israel does things? Its a HELL of alot better then we(or the UN) does them. If someone is a threat and they are creating a WMD they take their planes and bomb their asses :sniper: . Gotta love it! :) :)

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

I'm sure you have heard more ridiculous things in the time you've been on this forum.

Let's be very careful with what we're talking about, here.

What, exactly do you mean by "against Israel"? That's a very vague statement and needs to be very clearly defined before taking this discussion any further. I contend that one can object to Israeli policies without objecting to the right or priviledge of Israel to exist.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

...


I will also point out that this discussion does not belong in "Moderation" unless you want to make a specific accusation regarding Moderator conduct.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

I agree COMPLETELY with what you are saying

Another thought-
Say we were to go back to the year 1947, before Israel became a state. I would actually be against forming Israel. Why? There is no need for one. Jews could always leave anti-semitic Europe for America, a place where we have lived for hundreds of years without a single state-supported pogrom. There are also many other places where Jews have never been persecuted on a mass scale, such as Australia and New Zealand. Zionists who wanted to move to Palestine still could, but anything they did would have to be within the rules of the British and the local leaders of the area.
But we can't go back, and the political situation of the region is very different. Israel is an island of democracy in a sea of monarchies and dictatorships. The Jews who live in Israel are now firmly rooted and it would be wrong to uproot them for the sake of a bunch of nomads who only settled themselves because the Jews did. Israel has become for Jews today what America was for Europeans during the Industrial era. Jews from Ethiopia, South America and a hundred other obscure or far away places have come to Israel to escape persecution or for better opportunities. To take that away now would be wrong.
And one last thing addressed to Leninist Workers-
Hasn't Communism killed nearly as many Jews as Naziism (I am assuming you are a communist because of your username, so correct me if I am wrong)?

What I am saying is I disagree with past and present measures that have been taken by the Israeli government. Not all Jewish people are Zionists either. Zionists has a very clear meaning. A Zionists is like a member of the KKK for Christians.. however MOST Christians are not members of the KKK. I probably could come up with a better analogy.. but I hope you get my point.

BTW, why is this in moderation?

Quote:

-What I mean when I say "against Israel" (and what I believe Dr. King meant) is if you are against Israel's right to exist as a nation, you are anti-semitic.

-I think could possible to be "Against Israel" without beeing anti-semitic. If you do not accept the violations of international law and the treatment the Palestinians as an argumet, you could be "against Israel" without beeing "anti-semitic".

-If you scream "RACIST PIG" every time a person or a country disagree with the official American point of view in relations to Israel, it becomes a problem. Then it will always become a "Good vs. Evil" case... and the "poor idiot" who wants to point the finger at the real problems is a "Anti-semitic... racist pig...who supports terror"!? ...And belive me I have seen this many times!

-I am not "against Israel" as a nation. But i firmly belive they should uphold national law and ALL the resolutions in the UN.

(Ruler of the magnificient nation of Ussel Mammon)
(English is not my native language) :cool:

So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.Then I am anti-semitic.

Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.

The real semites are the muslims and as a result jews and israelis are the biggest anti-semites on the planet.

Funny. I knew the head of B'nai Brith in Canada a number of years back, and over a frank discussion of intolerance, Judaism, and Israeli politics, we agreed that there was one thing that people must always bear in mind, that being that,

"The State of Israel is not the Jewish people, and the Jewish people are not the State of Israel". I'm paraphrasing him as best I can (this was sixteen years ago, you dig). We're talking apples and oranges here.

He also told me to watch out for people who say otherwise, as they're more likely to fall into the trap of ethnic nationalism, which we both agreed was laughably outdated.

Go figure.

What I am saying is I disagree with past and present measures that have been taken by the Israeli government. Not all Jewish people are Zionists either. Zionists has a very clear meaning. A Zionists is like a member of the KKK for Christians.. however MOST Christians are not members of the KKK. I probably could come up with a better analogy.. but I hope you get my point.

BTW, why is this in moderation?
I did ask you after I posted it.
anyway, a Zionist is someone who believes in Israel and believes that its the Jewish homeland.

Which is a politically correct way of saying you are a nationalist.
Nationalists do bad things. Nationalists caused the genocide which led to the creation of Isreal in the first place.

Do you reckon history will repeat itself? Should it?

I mean Seriously. That is the kind of stuff the Nazi's used to justify their politics.

Being against Israel makes you Pro-Palestinian, which in return makes you pro-terrorism.

The Hell it does!

Just more infantile Isreali political slurs. No one in Isreal seems willing to look at the situation rationally. And its that climate that has made the situation so bad in the first place.

Theres three sides in this conflict. The Isreali Goverment, The Militants and the Civlians. Neither the Isreali armded forces or the Palestinean terrorists really care what happens to the civilians. Palestinean or Isreali.

Being against Israel makes you Pro-Palestinian, which in return makes you pro-terrorism.
Are you really an idiot or are you just being sarcastic?

Funny. I knew the head of B'nai Brith in Canada a number of years back, and over a frank discussion of intolerance, Judaism, and Israeli politics, we agreed that there was one thing that people must always bear in mind, that being that,

"The State of Israel is not the Jewish people, and the Jewish people are not the State of Israel". I'm paraphrasing him as best I can (this was sixteen years ago, you dig). We're talking apples and oranges here.

He also told me to watch out for people who say otherwise, as they're more likely to fall into the trap of ethnic nationalism, which we both agreed was laughably outdated.

Go figure.
I completely agree.

Just keep in mind, just because I disagree with Israel, does not mean I am anti-jewish or an anti-semite, because I'm not. I have real problems with the way Israel does things. I have no problem at all with Jewish people. I just wanted to make that clear.

Don't worry Steph, if you were I have a feeling that I would have been deleted by now for unnamed crimes!

Melkor, it doesn't make a difference, it just interested me to know. Maybe Max Barry only makes anti-Israelis mods. ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!

Dagnia, when people criticize Zionists, then they're criticizing... Zionists. I agree that some people are incapable of telling the difference between a Jew and a Zionist but they are two different people.

New Astrolia, Zionists are nationalist, but they aren't a majority for one so there's unlikely to be an extremely pro-Zionist party in power. And besides, i'm not sure its Nationalists as much as patriotic. You can't compare them to the Nazis because they don't neccessarily belive that Jews are the ultimate race and that everyone else is inferior, therefore we should kill everyone else.

You dont know what ur all talking about i mean ffs only like 20% of the people living in israel are religus its ridicules calling them jews.... the people who form this country where allready if not ataists then close to it and about that kkk BS zionist where UNreligus ppls back in the l8 40's and 50s who wanted a place where they could live in peace never wanted to kill all other ppl like in the crusades like those mf'rs from south USA that wants to kill all african's and all jewish ppl's also if u dont agree w/ wrecking terorist's cells (that is what israel army is doing if u dont know by buldozing "poor ppl home") then can u tell me y is it right to invade a country just because bin laden MIGHT still b there ? (also notice fbi wanted list he is wanted dead or a live **remmembering that even when the mosad searched for that natzi adolf aichman{i couldnt care less about misspelling his name} they captured him alive brought him to israel put him on trail them killed him by hanging burnt his curps and spread the ashes in the sea didnt killed him the second they found him).
and also if u think its worst to destroy ppls houses then ppl going killing others dozens of ppl something is seriusly wrong w/ u..... coz if u wouldnt look at the pictures of Palestinean crying over theyr houses and look at the reality of ppl crying over the fact that the only thing they have from their dead son to burry is a hand (picture which israels senzorship will never print) u'll think difrently

I already know that both Tactical Grace and Stephistan are anti-Israel. From threads in which they posted) but are there any pro-Israel mods? If so, why don't you post on the Israel debates?
Ah right, so being balanced or not being "pro-Israel" makes you "anti-Israel".

Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.
Of course he would say that, he's a hardcore American Christian. I think MLK was wrong.

.....

Anyway, Sanctaphrax thats just semantics. The difference between Patriotism and nationalism is a very fine line. When politics start to become involved in patriotism, then its becoming nationalistic. If Far right Isreali's are in the minority, then how come they arent politically irrelivant? Or havn't you noticed Likud?

Surprisingly Sharon seems to want to pull out of the west bank. He wants to rely on the "Security fence" instead. Apparently he realised that the occupation was untenable. He may have been winning points inside Israel. But there is a Worldwide Tide of opposition to its heavy handed strategies outside. And all that trouble for a few mouthy Religious Fundamentalists. Considering that Israel's existence is entirely reliant on Foreign Aid it was a wise decision.

And considering that Ultra Right wing of Israel advocate the forcible relocation of the Palestineans knowing full well what that would mean, I dont think the Nazi comparison is entirely unfair. Just because "Zionists" Aren't "Nazi's" doesnt mean thier politics isn't comparable.

Its Ironic that Sanctaphrax would ask why the Moderators dont seem to be "Pro-Isreali" (To use an egregious amount of spin)
Mods are selected on the criteria of being Unbiased, Objective and level headed. There are some right wing mods. But notice that none of them are Rabid.

Dr. Martin Luther King said, "When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”
So yes, if you are against Israel, you are anti-semitic.

This is quite probably the most self-centered thing I have heard in a while. It is possible to criticize a government without hating a people.

SHAME ON YOU for playing the discrimination card.

So, it is being suggested that criticism of Israel equates to anti-semitism.

It follows, then, that criticism of Iran, Iraq, Syria, North Korea, China even, is racist with respect to Arabs, Persians and orientals. Criticism of Serbia can now be re-evaluated as anti-Slavic, in the Nazi German style. Venezuela and Brazil? Clearly those who point out the shortcomings there, are prejudiced against hispanics. The numerous African dictatorships, starting with the chaos in Zimbabwe and Sudan, are the common form of hatred of blacks, familiar to everyone. The American dislike of the French, that is a new one, but it would seem to fit this new expanded criteria of racism.

If criticism of a state equates to hatred of the race of people who live within it, then it is reasonable to assume that everyone on this site is racist. After all, why are we all here, if not to offer critcism of national policy?

Why not expand this even further? Why not view the criticism of individual political figures as the manifestation of a prejudice against people of their background in general? Does it make sense to draw the line at mere nations?

All this applies to you too, Dagnia. Should I now speculate of which variety of dark-skinned people you dislike?

So, it is being suggested that criticism of Israel equates to anti-semitism.

It follows, then, that criticism of Iran, Iraq, Syria, North Korea, China even, is racist with respect to Arabs, Persians and orientals. Criticism of Serbia can now be re-evaluated as anti-Slavic, in the Nazi German style. Venezuela and Brazil? Clearly those who point out the shortcomings there, are prejudiced against hispanics. The numerous African dictatorships, starting with the chaos in Zimbabwe and Sudan, are the common form of hatred of blacks, familiar to everyone. The American dislike of the French, that is a new one, but it would seem to fit this new expanded criteria of racism.

If criticism of a state equates to hatred of the race of people who live within it, then it is reasonable to assume that everyone on this site is racist. After all, why are we all here, if not to offer critcism of national policy?

Why not expand this even further? Why not view the criticism of individual political figures as the manifestation of a prejudice against people of their background in general? Does it make sense to draw the line at mere nations?

All this applies to you too, Dagnia. Should I now speculate of which variety of dark-skinned people you dislike?

Clearly. And anyone who is critical of America is by extension racist against all races, since America is such an amalgamation of races. There certainly are alot of racist people on these forums, aren't there?

Is there anymod Yet to post in this thread? :D

Actually, many of the Mods won't even read this thread because they do not routinely browse General, unless someone specifically tells them that there is serious trouble going on. So I wouldn't expect any comments from any more than have already posted.

I will lock this now, as it appears that the logic of those accusing certain Moderators of anti-semitism would lead to the conclusion that the detractors are themselves deeply prejudiced against Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, or even dark-skinned people in general. And I really do not see how that kind of logic can lead to a reasonable debate.

The moral the story is, don't play the race card if it can be played back. ;)