NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's an interesting article that suggests that Russia had a part in hiding a lot of Saddam's weapons.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm

See, by posting this, you will now be called names, insulted, and pestered by people who are unable to challenge the report. Good post.

See, by posting this, you will now be called names, insulted, and pestered by people who are unable to challenge the report. Good post.

Thanks for the warning..

Names and insults don't really bother me.

I wonder if we have any intelligence photos. I'd think the CIA was watching. But who knows.

Thanks for the warning..

Names and insults don't really bother me.

I wonder if we have any intelligence photos. I'd think the CIA was watching. But who knows.
Actually, there are satelite photos showing a lot of truck activity at the sire in the time leading up to the Liberation of Iraq.

i wudnt be surprised they are all dodgy at heart poutin was virtually a commie anyway *cough* prick *cough* russias as corrupt as hell

So, during one of the times when US intelligence and military services are most alert and prepared, the Russians are somehow able to send several regiments of their Army through Iran and Turkey, use hundreds of trucks to remove tons and tons of weapons and dismantle WMD programs all through Iraq and back to Russia in something like three months, all of this undetected.

Geez... I never realized the US was so close to the brink of disaster.

Simply? No. This is just another story cooked up to try and deflect the shit from sticking to Bush et al with less than a week before the election.

Those damned Ruskies!

So, during one of the times when US intelligence and military services are most alert and prepared, the Russians are somehow able to send several regiments of their Army through Iran and Turkey, use hundreds of trucks to remove tons and tons of weapons and dismantle WMD programs all through Iraq and back to Russia in something like three months, all of this undetected.

Geez... I never realized the US was so close to the brink of disaster.

Maybe we do know. We might even have satelite photos of the whole thing.
Still it is a little too early to know if this is true or false.

Simply? No. This is just another story cooked up to try and deflect the shit from sticking to Bush et al with less than a week before the election.

Yea that's it! It's all a conspiracy! :p

Simply claiming something doesn't make it true.

I'll wait to pass judgement on this till it is proven or disproven.

If it is true that would explain alot about the missing WMD's.

Actually, there are satelite photos showing a lot of truck activity at the sire in the time leading up to the Liberation of Iraq.

Source? Please post a source. A source is needed. Where is the source. Super-source us. Traveling up the Nile to discover the source. May the source be with you. Here source-y source-y source-y! Pork chops and apple source. Source-eror's apprentice. Saddle-source. Source*.





*source.

There is zero evidence of this, they're just trying to blame any one they can to get out of taking responsibility for their own ineptitude.

Source? *Extraneous Garbage Deleted*

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136897,00.html

The Defense Department is analyzing satellite photos of an Iraqi military facility taken before the U.S.-led war in 2003 to determine what happened to tons of explosives.

The photos show “large truck activity” at the Al-Qaqaa (search) installation south of Baghdad, according to military officials, who hope to have the images declassified so they can be released.

There is zero evidence of this, they're just trying to blame any one they can to get out of taking responsibility for their own ineptitude.
Good research, there. See above post.

The photos show “large truck activity” at the Al-Qaqaa (search) installation south of Baghdad, according to military officials, who hope to have the images declassified so they can be released.
I'm sure there was a lot of truck activity as Iraq scrambled it's defenses and prepared for an invasion. This doesn't mean that the Russians were behind it or that they were trying to hide WMD programs.

There are also reports (please don't ask me for the source) that the Russians did illegal trade with Saddam. I think that it may go beyond that. Maybe some, not to mention names, European counties did the same. That would explain firece opposition to the war. Why wouldn't you want to topple a homicidal terroristic maniac? Why, if you were doing business with him, of course!

I'm sure there was a lot of truck activity as Iraq scrambled it's defenses and prepared for an invasion. This doesn't mean that the Russians were behind it or that they were trying to hide WMD programs.
Doesn't mean the were not, either.

Didn't the Cold War end a little while ago? I was under the vague impression that the berlin wall was knocked down and that we weren't actually enemies of Russia anymore.

Maybe it was all a dream... :rolleyes:

Good research, there. See above post.

Oh yes, just like when Powell went to the UN with Satellite pictures of milk trucks they claimed were mobile chemical weapons labs.. :rolleyes:

Have Americans not figured it out yet? America has no credibility left in the world. No one believes a word you say any more thanks to your invasion of Iraq based on lies, lies and more lies. Are Americans having trouble with the concept that in 3 short years you have lost any credibility with the world? When the almost 60 years prior to that we all would of followed you into the fires of hell. You want some one to blame.. Use your vote to take it out on the person who caused the rest of us to think every thing you say is full of sh*t. Fire Bush!

Doesn't mean the were not, either.
It doesn't mean it wasn't furry giant alien rabbits. The point is that there are several valid explanations for this activity and that speculation is not proof.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136897,00.html

The Defense Department is analyzing satellite photos of an Iraqi military facility taken before the U.S.-led war in 2003 to determine what happened to tons of explosives.

The photos show “large truck activity” at the Al-Qaqaa (search) installation south of Baghdad, according to military officials, who hope to have the images declassified so they can be released.

The Pentagon is still analyzing them for one thing, so let's not "jump to conclusions" (how Bush can make that accusation while simultaneously doing it himself is amazing to me...not to mention that the whole invasion of Iraq was based on massively hurried conclusions.)

Fox News is also the only source I saw running this. I did a quick search for Al Qaqaa + Russia and didn't come up with much as regards to major media outlets other than the original Washington Times article, but I wasn't exactly thorough.

All in all, this is a muddy story and is getting muddier by the moment. I really dislike that the Bush administration has wavered in it's explanations and has, as yet, given us no firm answers. The fact that they accuse Kerry of criticizing the soldiers when no one can find a single example of Kerry doing anything but complimenting the soldiers in his Al Qaqaa speeches is deplorable.

For the sake of Jesus, God and Democracy, there is only one thing to do:

BOMB SYRIA AND RUSSIA!

And before they move those mystical WMD:s again

BOMB ALL OTHER COUNTRIES TOO!

For one of the ten commandments is NOT
"Thou shall not kill."
It is
"Thou shall force democracy down other peoples throats with bombs, for it is very nice thing to do and God shall reward you with oil."

CNN is now reporting right from Rumsfeld's mouth that they have no evidence to back up that claim nor do they believe it's true and that Shaw doesn't speak for the Pentagon.. Go figure! :rolleyes:

Oh yes, just like when Powell went to the UN with Satellite pictures of milk trucks they claimed were mobile chemical weapons labs.. :rolleyes:

Have Americans not figured it out yet? America has no credibility left in the world. No one believes a word you say any more thanks to your invasion of Iraq based on lies, lies and more lies. Are Americans having trouble with the concept that in 3 short years you have lost any credibility with the world? When the almost 60 years prior to that we all would of followed you into the fires of hell. You want some one to blame.. Use your vote to take it out on the person who caused the rest of us to think every thing you say is full of sh*t. Fire Bush!
Wow, why do you hate America so much? Envy? The fact is that in three years of hatred from the democrats, the left, and college losers, George Bush ahs freed more human beings from misery than all the Canadian Prime ministers in history, so you hatred is understandable. Canada is a joke, and will be a footnote in history, known forever as the socialist little brother of the greatest republic in history. You envy is transparent, and blinded by that envy, you take it out on the President and on Americans.

Wow, why do you hate America so much? Envy?

I don't hate America, I hate Bush for what he's done to the state of world peace. He's a dangerous man who lies to get what he wants at all costs.

Envy? Hardly, I'm a Canadian, I live in a country with a much higher standard of living then you do. We are also not governed by a bunch of religious kooks!

The fact is that in three years of hatred from the democrats, the left, and college losers, George Bush ahs freed more human beings from misery than all the Canadian Prime ministers in history, so you hatred is understandable.

I could not agree more. Death is the ultimate freedom from all misery.
I feel rising urge to liberate someone.



Oh damn, I forgot. If I go and bomb soneones home, it won't be called liberating. It's murder and act of terror. Well, no wonder that I got them mixed up with the example "The Greatest Man On Earth" is giving us.

Maybe some, not to mention names, European counties did the same. That would explain firece opposition to the war. Why wouldn't you want to topple a homicidal terroristic maniac? Why, if you were doing business with him, of course!

Or maybe they thought that violonce is only a last resort, and that you always should try to use other tools for achiving your goals? Maybe they belived that it would be better to let the weapon inspectors continue doing there job instead of killing alot of people and put the westen world in an even worse safty position then before?

Envy? Hardly, I'm a Canadian, I live in a country with a much higher standard of living then you do.

And I live in a country that has a higher standard of living than Canada. =p

Canada is a joke, and will be a footnote in history, known forever as the socialist little brother of the greatest republic in history.

You really can't think of another country, empire or rebulic greater than the USA in history. That's sad.

Envy? Hardly, I'm a Canadian, I live in a country with a much higher standard of living then you do. We are also not governed by a bunch of religious kooks!
Higher standard of living? How? Because you have socialized medicine that leads your citizens to come to the US for medical care? Because your tax level is so high, and you still have substandard medical care? That must be why millions flee their countries to imigrate to Canada, and not the U.S.

Wow, why do you hate America so much? Envy? The fact is that in three years of hatred from the democrats, the left, and college losers, George Bush ahs freed more human beings from misery than all the Canadian Prime ministers in history, so you hatred is understandable. Canada is a joke, and will be a footnote in history, known forever as the socialist little brother of the greatest republic in history. You envy is transparent, and blinded by that envy, you take it out on the President and on Americans.

Cut the jingoism, dumbass. America isn't the reincarnation of all that is perfect and holy.

Cut the jingoism, dumbass.
You started out so well, using that big word, then you finished like that? Man, I had respect for you for the first 3 words.

Higher standard of living? How? Because you have socialized medicine that leads your citizens to come to the US for medical care? Because your tax level is so high, and you still have substandard medical care? That must be why millions flee their countries to imigrate to Canada, and not the U.S.

Did you ever read the stuides done on this subject? It comes a new one every year, the top five are the Scandinavian countries, Canada and Switzerland. If i'm not mistaking, I belive that the US came on 13th-17th place, not really sure.

Did you ever read the stuides done on this subject? It comes a new one every year, the top five are the Scandinavian countries, Canada and Switzerland. If i'm not mistaking, I belive that the US came on 13th-17th place, not really sure.

Yup that is correct and up and until I believe two years ago Canada was in first place for 7 years in a row. I think Norway is #1 now though I know they were last year. I think they are again this year. :)

Based on what? Best hockey availability? Seriously, what are the criteria? I am just supposed to take your word for it? Every time I have been to Canada, everything was expensive and under 3 feet of snow.

Higher standard of living? How? Because you have socialized medicine that leads your citizens to come to the US for medical care? Because your tax level is so high, and you still have substandard medical care? That must be why millions flee their countries to imigrate to Canada, and not the U.S.

Funny, lots of people flee the US to go to Canada...:D

Yup that is correct and up and until I believe two years ago Canada was in first place for 7 years in a row. I think Norway is #1 now though I know they were last year. I think they are again this year. :)

They don't care. They think anything that comes from another country is a lie. Unless it comes from Fox's or Rush Limbaugh's lips, it's a slanted lie to them.

Based on what? Best hockey availability? Seriously, what are the criteria? I am just supposed to take your word for it? Every time I have been to Canada, everything was expensive and under 3 feet of snow.

Holy fucking idiot batman, we've got a moron!

Jingoistic fool, just shut up already. America isn't the greatest country to exist, deal with it.

Based on what? Best hockey availability? Seriously, what are the criteria? I am just supposed to take your word for it? Every time I have been to Canada, everything was expensive and under 3 feet of snow.

How long you live, eduction, healthcare, poverty, workplace envoirment etc...

Holy fucking idiot batman, we've got a moron!

Jingoistic fool, just shut up already. America isn't the greatest country to exist, deal with it.
Hey, did I call you names? Why must you resort to that? Is it becuse your arguments lack merit, that you must toss about vitriol like taht? What is your deal?

Based on what? Best hockey availability? Seriously, what are the criteria? I am just supposed to take your word for it? Every time I have been to Canada, everything was expensive and under 3 feet of snow.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1089906805255_85316005/?hub=CTVNewsAt11

Sorry, the USA is at 8th place, not 13.

Hey, did I call you names? Why must you resort to that? Is it becuse your arguments lack merit, that you must toss about vitriol like taht? What is your deal?

I call what I see. You are jingoistic. You believe America is better then everywhere else. And when proof that it isn't is shown, you shut your ears and pretend it doesn't exist.

Russia did not help iraq hide anything.

UN sanctions were effective and Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction or programs to fabricate them.

John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.
"The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."


Once he said , " Almost certainly" everyone should knew he was lying.
That is a weasel word. Go to a critical Thinking class, it teaches you how to use your brain and detect things like that.
You see almost weakens the claim of certainly but together they sound not too bad.

He had no proof he was just guessing.

A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.
However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
So he admits America left unguarded the place after the war. That there was still weapons after the war started?

So then how could it be bare? Either there was stolen/looted stuff or there wasn't?
His claim is there was not "those" stuff that was looted? Does it change the fact that stuff got looted, no!

Its funny how they are trying to coer thier butts but lessening the failure.

Wow, why do you hate America so much? Envy? The fact is that in three years of hatred from the democrats, the left, and college losers, George Bush ahs freed more human beings from misery than all the Canadian Prime ministers in history, so you hatred is understandable. Canada is a joke, and will be a footnote in history, known forever as the socialist little brother of the greatest republic in history. You envy is transparent, and blinded by that envy, you take it out on the President and on Americans.


Bush has freed one person from misery. The misery of prison.

His name is Kenneth Lay

I don't hate America, I hate Bush for what he's done to the state of world peace. He's a dangerous man who lies to get what he wants at all costs.

Envy? Hardly, I'm a Canadian, I live in a country with a much higher standard of living then you do. We are also not governed by a bunch of religious kooks!

As an American I am quite envious of you Canadians and your free healthcare. But we'll never have it here, since free healthcare is obviously immoral and wrong.

(And for those of you who counter with the long waiting time to get treatment in Canada--it's because greedy doctors have migrated to the U.S., where ordinary citizens have to pay them and the insurance companies oodles of cash in order stay healthy.)

Wow, why do you hate America so much? Envy? The fact is that in three years of hatred from the democrats, the left, and college losers, George Bush ahs freed more human beings from misery than all the Canadian Prime ministers in history, so you hatred is understandable. Canada is a joke, and will be a footnote in history, known forever as the socialist little brother of the greatest republic in history. You envy is transparent, and blinded by that envy, you take it out on the President and on Americans.

If America is the greatest republic ever, why did the candidate with the majority of the votes in 2000 lose? And what about the 10,000 plus Iraqis who have died as a result of our invasion? Great job liberating them...

Wow, why do you hate America so much? Envy? The fact is that in three years of hatred from the democrats, the left, and college losers, George Bush ahs freed more human beings from misery than all the Canadian Prime ministers in history, so you hatred is understandable. Canada is a joke, and will be a footnote in history, known forever as the socialist little brother of the greatest republic in history. You envy is transparent, and blinded by that envy, you take it out on the President and on Americans.

This sounds just like 1930's-style German rhetoric....you know, Hitler had the urge to liberate other countries, too....

Well, I am watching BBC morning news right now, and they are saying all those expolosives were looted after the US came into "control" of Iraq. Hell, it even showed a US sergent standing next to a big pile of dusty exploisives, i dont know if these were the ones, but they are reporting that the big stockpile went after the invasion.

Lol - just seen the photos, there are two trucks parked in a military area in a nation that is about to be invaded. My God, they could not be preparing to defend themselves could they?! Now there is a thought. I mean it is fairly obvious that they would lose the wage, so supplying paramilitaries with explosives and arms is what many nations would do if they were about to go under, war a gureilla war to force them out. Or they could just be to transport munitions to the front/defensive positions.

And as for the comment I heard about the French, Germans and Russians being against the war due to economic interests. I just say, come on, of course they were, but dont lie to yourself that the UK and USA would not/do not do the same thing. How many people die a day due to western hunger for cheap goods, high tariffs and fumbled economic policies promoted by the USA and IMF (re - Argentina).

Man this thread has gone off the deep end.

After checking many sources (including FOX) it's looking less likely that the russians had anything to do with the disappearance of these explosives or any other weapons.

The IAEA even admitted that the bunkers were not secure, because of some ventilation on the sides of the building. I have yet to see a report (from multiple sources) that claims the explosives were still there when the US soldiers got there.

Anyway, I think we've beaten this horse to death..

Anyway, I think we've beaten this horse to death..
Wait! Look! Did you see that? I think I just saw it move!

Take that!! [Flogs dead horse]

Sorry, it's just so hilarious, it takes the American government 2 days to respond to the story, and when they do, they blame it on the Russians. :rolleyes:

again, no, this is just more snowjobbing before people go to the polls.

like that 'American Al-Qaeda' dude. http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/29/qaeda_tape041029.html

connect the dots. you're being lied to, and have been for over three years.

What would America do without Russia? I mean they are the most useful tool in the administrations army.

"We can't find the WMD, the Russians must have pinched them"

"There are Terrorists everywhere, the Russians must be coordinating them"

"Aliens have invaded, it must be a secret plan by Russia to spread Commnism across the galaxy"

I call what I see. You are jingoistic. You believe America is better then everywhere else. And when proof that it isn't is shown, you shut your ears and pretend it doesn't exist.
That still doesn't answer my question. Why do you feel that you need to throw obscene names around? Is it because your arguments lack merit, so you must add the flourish of a trash mouth?

Russia did not help iraq hide anything.

UN sanctions were effective and Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction or programs to fabricate them.That is the final word from someone with no actual knowledge of the situation. You all listen up now, this one has spoken. :rolleyes:

Yeah America is the greatest republic in history, cause you know the Romans really didn't do all that much... :rolleyes:

Oh BTW the theory that the weapons were taken before the war started is demonstratably false.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=206847

Wait! Look! Did you see that? I think I just saw it move!

Take that!! [Flogs dead horse]

Sorry, it's just so hilarious, it takes the American government 2 days to respond to the story, and when they do, they blame it on the Russians. :rolleyes:

Quick get it.. [grabs bat] :D

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US government has not blamed the russians for this. It all started in the media.

That still doesn't answer my question. Why do you feel that you need to throw obscene names around? Is it because your arguments lack merit, so you must add the flourish of a trash mouth?

I called you obscene names because I disagreed with you to the point of sparking emotions inside of them, thus causing me to momentarily lose my temper :p

It had nothing to do with arguments lacking merit; you just pissed me off. Jingoism does that.

__Rumsfeld on 'Russian Troops' Bushit: 'Can't Validate That Even Slightly'

MSNBC: "Rumsfeld, in one radio interview, also cast doubt on the suggestion of one of his subordinates that Russian forces assisted the Iraqis in removing them. John Shaw, the deputy U.S. undersecretary of defense for international technology security, suggested to The Washington Times in an interview that the Russians may have been involved, prompting an angry denial from Moscow. Rumsfeld said, 'I have no information on that at all, and cannot validate that even slightly.' " When it's too wacky for even Rumsfeld, you know it's a bunch of bushit. By the way, let's not forget about the OTHER looting scandal -- at Tuwaitha -- also thanks to Bush's failure to secure THAT site. "[Melissa] Fleming said the IAEA -- which had put storage bunkers at the site under seal two months before the war -- alerted the United States about the Al-Qaqaa site after the Tuwaitha nuclear complex was looted. The IAEA said it informed U.S. officials separately of the Tuwaitha looting on April 10."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/

__Al Qaqaa Tape Shows US Soldiers Unlocking Explosive Caches AFTER Saddam Fell

KSTP/Minneapolis reports: "The news crew was based just south of Al Qaqaa, and drove two or three miles north of there with soldiers on April 18, 2003. During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS news crew bunker after bunker of material labelled 'explosives.' Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get into the bunkers and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords. 'We can stick it in those and make some good bombs.' a soldier told our crew. There were what appeared to be fuses for bombs. They also found bags of material men from the 101st couldn't identify, but box after box was clearly marked 'explosive.' In one bunker, there were boxes marked with the name 'Al Qaqaa', the munitions plant where tons of explosives allegedly went missing. Once the doors to the bunkers were opened, they weren't secured. They were left open when the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew and the military went back to their base."
http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S3723.html


__More Proof Bush is Lying About Missing Explosives - Iraqis Tell of Looting at Munitions Site in '03

NYT: "Looters stormed the weapons site at Al Qaqaa in the days after US troops swept through the area in early April 2003 on their way to Baghdad, gutting office buildings, carrying off munitions and even dismantling heavy machinery, three Iraqi witnesses and a regional security chief said Wednesday. The Iraqis described an orgy of theft so extensive that enterprising residents rented their trucks to looters. But some looting was clearly indiscriminate, with people grabbing anything they could find and later heaving unwanted items off the trucks. Two witnesses were employees of Al Qaqaa - one a chemical engineer and the other a mechanic - and the third was a former employee, a chemist, who had come back to retrieve his records, determined to keep them out of American hands. The mechanic, Ahmed Saleh Mezher, said employees asked the Americans to protect the site but were told this was not the soldiers' responsibility."
http://nytimes.com/2004/10/28/international/middleeast/28bomb.html