NationStates Jolt Archive

What issue seems to generate the most strident, knee jerk, partisan, unreasonable people and arguments? Why do you think that is?

Abortion Debate
Gun Control
Iraq War
Kerry vs. Bush election
Women's rights/role
Religion
Race relations
Other (explain)

Try to simply identify the issue and the reason it generates such powerful emotions without actually adopting a position and becoming one of the hardheads. :headbang:

All of the above.

:mad:

No... NONE of the above!

:mad:

ASSHOLE!

:mad:

NONE of the above! A**HOLE!

Thank you for providing an example of the kind of person referred to in the poll. It always helps to have an illustration of the principle.

Druthulhu that was hilarious

Druthulhu that was hilarious
No way. He sounded serious.

No way. He sounded serious.

Well... I was conflicted over the TITLE! ...but then I decided, hey, there are so many ASSHATS around here that wouldn't get it otherwise. :rolleyes:

What issue seems to generate the most strident, knee jerk, partisan, unreasonable people and arguments? Why do you think that is?

Abortion Debate
Gun Control
Iraq War
Kerry vs. Bush election
Women's rights/role
Religion
Race relations
Other (explain)

Try to simply identify the issue and the reason it generates such powerful emotions without actually adopting a position and becoming one of the hardheads. :headbang:

Yes. All of the above. Why? Because in each case, a group feels their rights are being infringed upon (on both sides of each issue) or feel very strongly for their side ... leading them to believe that no one rational could even /begin/ to believe in the other side. Since they've already demonized their opposition (as a group that is against them and everything they stand for), it's easy to simply get emotional and attack instead of thinking.

Of course, sometimes the other side is just full of (pinko / hippie / commie / neocon / fag / homophobic / bigotted / sexist / racists / etc etc) people who should be shot on sight anyway.

Yes. All of the above. Why? Because in each case, a group feels their rights are being infringed upon (on both sides of each issue) or feel very strongly for their side ... leading them to believe that no one rational could even /begin/ to believe in the other side. Since they've already demonized their opposition (as a group that is against them and everything they stand for), it's easy to simply get emotional and attack instead of thinking.

I think you make a good point, but I have found I have the most difficult time finding common ground with people discussing abortion and gun control. The hard core on both those issues give no ground at all.

Well, I think you managed to pick most of the issues where people feel attacked ... I think it's actually easier simply to point out the one or two that /aren't/ as violently argued because most people seem to agree (generally speaking): those being women's rights and race relations. For the most part, there's a few outspoken folks out there with some "crazy" ideas about both (maybe antiquated is a better word), but the majority agree.

I have to say Bu**/Kerry because they personnify, at least to their ardent adherents, the debate on the rest. In fact I am for Kerry not because I believe, trust, admire or agree with him. I am for moderating the neo-con threat to America; which I consider to be more of a threat than a truckload of bin Ladens. Coming from a downtown NYC guy who inhaled, ate and wore the powder of the WTC & it's victims. A downtown guy who is trained and actively involved in the C.E.R.T., that is saying something.







Community Emergency Response Team

Nationalism, easily.

Half the threads turn into why a country sucks or why it is the best. And they go nowhere.

the things youve listed are for americans only. :rolleyes:

the things youve listed are for americans only. :rolleyes:
What are the issues in your area then? It would be enlightening to see that discussion.

Everything on the list and more.

As someone else brought up, extreme jingoism is starting to become a MAJOR problem. That needs to stop as soon as possible.

hmm...let's see... over here it would probably be refugees/asylum-seekers (sp?).
some honestly think that 'our' country is being 'invaded' by these...these...foreigners
(and apparently having 20% foreigners in the country is way too much for some...)

What issue seems to generate the most strident, knee jerk, partisan, unreasonable people and arguments? Why do you think that is?

Abortion Debate
allowed. no one wants to change that.
Gun Control no guns allowed. no one want to change that too.
Iraq War this is discussed sometimes, but its kinda one sided, with only a small handfull of people saying it was justified.
Kerry vs. Bush election same than the above one, although even more one sided. everyone hates bush ;)
Women's rights/role i dunno, what is there to discuss? *scratches head*
Religion no one cares about religion. its unimportant.
Race relations now this is an issue. but it immidiatly turns into another discussion called "the right wing - demons or a political party?"

other issues:

germanys economic problems - who is responsible, what can be done?

america, americans in general, and american foreign policy.

israels behavior in the middle east.

germanys status in the world.

immigration

got an idea. ill just translate the current topics of the n24.de "general" forum for you.

Integration
Earthquake produce change of the Gravityfield of the earth
Unemployment in USA?
Alcopops? (alcopops is sweet tasting alcohol for children)
Virginitytest in turkish Prisons
The real danger for Humankind (usa and its war on terror)
what is .... (discussion about what "wisdom" is)
slave trade in europe
Turkey the first EU Country with Clanculture?
MLPD - good or bad? (MLPD is a small marxist political party)
My personal Banana-Republik (germanys future)
Bush is Kerry is Bush!
How will Bush win the Election?
Drugs in south-east Turkey
Merkel, in full retreat? (Merkel: Head Politican of the current opposition)
No Terrorism in Germany?

Everything on the list and more.

As someone else brought up, extreme jingoism is starting to become a MAJOR problem. That needs to stop as soon as possible.
I don't agree.
I participate in debates just for fun. I'm not expecting to convince anybody and I don't think anybody expect to convince anybody. This is a game and I enjoy it very much. I like the confrontation and the controversy. It doesn't matter if it is not rational, so long as it is fun. I think people like the anger and they like to shout at each other.
So, in my opinion it is not a problem at all, so long as everyone remember it is just for fun.

I don't agree.
I participate in debates just for fun. I'm not expecting to convince anybody and I don't think anybody expect to convince anybody. This is a game and I enjoy it very much. I like the confrontation and the controversy. It doesn't matter if it is not rational, so long as it is fun. I think people like the anger and they like to shout at each other.
So, in my opinion it is not a problem at all, so long as everyone remember it is just for fun.
when you participate in discussions, you will soon learn that you will never convince a person of something they believe in. you can try and let them look stupid, but you wont convince anybody.the point in discussions is to make the other one checkmate (sp) with logic traps, twisting words around, stuff like that, so that your opponent cant answer without an insult, nazi comparison or an obvious lie.
its fun really. just dont take it too serious, or youll soon need a new mouse, keyboard, and girlfriend. :D

I think it's ironic how many people chose Bush/Kerry. Because of course it's the only one involving two clearcut sides with really rabid morons on both sides, isn't it? For example, in the abortion debate, the anti- side is overloaded with fanatics (not that the pro-choice side doesn't have any) etc, etc.

But here, not only are the sensible people on Bush's side complaining about the morons on Kerry's side and the morons on Kerry's side being unreasonable about the people onBush's side, but also VICE VERSA - because both sides have an equal amount of morons and sensible people.

Coffee drinkers Vs Tea drinkers

I have seen some ugly incidents regarding this topic.

Ugh, the abortion debate.

From the people who don't understand that the term 'murder' doesn't apply, to all the photos that are mislabled and irrelevent (partial birth =/= elective abortion! GAH!), to the religious nuts (not all religious people are nuts, just the few. The few, I hate; the rest I don't). And let's not forget the people who are convinced it's some sort of feminist conspiracy.

Personally I think that maybe 5 minutes of that sort of tripe is enough to make my brain attempt ritual hara-kiri. If only I had the sense to stay away (and yet, *right at this moment* I've got the 'a question for pro-lifers' thread open in another window... ugh, the hatred. Pure, unadulterated hatred)

Sigh and so forth.

The Bush/Kerry debate is annoying, but even *that* debate has less uninformed-ness and bigotry. The Bush/Kerry debate at least has intelligent people on *both* sides. Plus, nothing said is even half as damaging to my blood pressure as things found in the abortion debates (oh noes batman! I got called a communist and got accused of supporting terrorism because I prefer Kerry to Bush! Suicide is the only option!)

the things youve listed are for americans only. :rolleyes:
Why not add a new topic that deals with Canadian/American Issues.
You would be quite suprised to find a large degree of Candians here that have highly edcuated views on American Policy.

Why not add a new topic that deals with Canadian/American Issues.
You would be quite suprised to find a large degree of Candians here that have highly edcuated views on American Policy.
:rolleyes:

Why not add a new topic that deals with Canadian/American Issues.
You would be quite suprised to find a large degree of Candians here that have highly edcuated views on American Policy.
well, you should ask a Canadian about Canadian/American issues... and i should insert my home country in the profile again :rolleyes:

Why not add a new topic that deals with Canadian/American Issues.
You would be quite suprised to find a large degree of Candians here that have highly edcuated views on American Policy.

Since Canadians apparently have already resolved such "American" issues as abortion, women's rights, religion, and race/ethnic relations, maybe you can give your neighbors to the south a few pointers on how you did it.

Since Canadians apparently have already resolved such "American" issues as abortion, women's rights, religion, and race/ethnic relations, maybe you can give your neighbors to the south a few pointers on how you did it.

By being a left-wing paradise instead of a right-wing theocracy?

I think it is a matter of social education.
Give social education to everyone and the various religious groups will have less grip on the population.

. . .

Alcopops? (alcopops is sweet tasting alcohol for children)

. . .



Alcopops are for children? Here we have wine coolers (fruit juice booze) and hard lemonade (same) and other stuff, but nobody complains that it's intended for children. Maybe y'all need to crack down on illegal sales?

And y'all need to smack Turkey into shape before you let them in... is it too late yet?

And we all need to put an end to slavery once and for all... probably the best reason for taking over Sudan.

By being a left-wing paradise instead of a right-wing theocracy?

No, by continuing to be a democratic nation instead of willfully sliding into tyranny.

I don't know about the US but in Britain it is definitely immigration. On the one hand you have those who are totally racist and on the other those who say that any debate about immigration is racist. This polarisation is the root of the problem.

It's a shame because truly most people in Britain are not at all racist and do welcome genuine legal migrants who come here for a better standard of living, employment or fleeing persecution but at the same time most people are worried about the failure of succesive governments to get control over immigration to this country. Until the childish debate and insults that usually dominate any attempt at discussion on this issue cease, the problems that do exist in the immigration system will never be sorted out and there will be further and quite alarming growth in support for the BNP and other right wing extremist groups.

Alcopops are for children? Here we have wine coolers (fruit juice booze) and hard lemonade (same) and other stuff, but nobody complains that it's intended for children. Maybe y'all need to crack down on illegal sales? alcopops are legal. they are sold to anyone at any age, and the advertise campaigns target children of about 8-14 years.
you see alcopops contain only a small percentage alcohol, not enough that they fall under the alcohol laws like beer does. beer had 6,5% but anything under a certain percentage (dont know exactly which. 1% maybe) is free and since they target children with their products so openly there is a hot debate about if the laws should be changed.

And y'all need to smack Turkey into shape before you let them in... is it too late yet? its probably too late yes. i think turkey isnt compatible with our basic values, will create a economic mess and will in the end destroy the EU. but that imo.
the other side says its a new market where products can be sold, where cheap labor is (like this any use to us with our hugh unemployment...) and we did promise it to them somewhere in the 70s.
there are other points too of cause. without any doubt this is the issue that is discussed hardest and most recently.

And we all need to put an end to slavery once and for all... probably the best reason for taking over Sudan.
*grin* let me explain it a bit.
you know that prostitution is legal through europe. it is run like any other business is, its taxed and controlled by law. now there are the black sheep that import cheap girls from russia, rumania, china etc. they cant speak a word of the language and get told theyll be killed if they make any problems. you can make a hugh profit with these girls, cause a normal prostitute gets most of their income, such a girl get nothing. that is the slavery they speak about. sudan has nothing to do with it.

I don't know about the US but in Britain it is definitely immigration. On the one hand you have those who are totally racist and on the other those who say that any debate about immigration is racist. This polarisation is the root of the problem.

It's a shame because truly most people in Britain are not at all racist and do welcome genuine legal migrants who come here for a better standard of living, employment or fleeing persecution but at the same time most people are worried about the failure of succesive governments to get control over immigration to this country. Until the childish debate and insults that usually dominate any attempt at discussion on this issue cease, the problems that do exist in the immigration system will never be sorted out and there will be further and quite alarming growth in support for the BNP and other right wing extremist groups.
wow your sure your talking about britain?
in germany its the same. maybe even more polarised, some cry nazi when even mentioning immigration.
really its the same situation. just BNP = NPD here. lol in translation they even have the same name.

alcopops are legal. they are sold to anyone at any age, and the advertise campaigns target children of about 8-14 years.
you see alcopops contain only a small percentage alcohol, not enough that they fall under the alcohol laws like beer does. beer had 6,5% but anything under a certain percentage (dont know exactly which. 1% maybe) is free and since they target children with their products so openly there is a hot debate about if the laws should be changed.

its probably too late yes. i think turkey isnt compatible with our basic values, will create a economic mess and will in the end destroy the EU. but that imo.
the other side says its a new market where products can be sold, where cheap labor is (like this any use to us with our hugh unemployment...) and we did promise it to them somewhere in the 70s.
there are other points too of cause. without any doubt this is the issue that is discussed hardest and most recently.


*grin* let me explain it a bit.
you know that prostitution is legal through europe. it is run like any other business is, its taxed and controlled by law. now there are the black sheep that import cheap girls from russia, rumania, china etc. they cant speak a word of the language and get told theyll be killed if they make any problems. you can make a hugh profit with these girls, cause a normal prostitute gets most of their income, such a girl get nothing. that is the slavery they speak about. sudan has nothing to do with it.

So kids there can buy 1% booze? Whacky, dude. I'd make it 13+ ;) .

I say let Turkey in and then start coming out with EU-wide civil rights mandates including labour laws. :) But I wouldn't count on any government body to actually do something like that without the people demanding it.

Yes I know about that. But we need to get rid of all of it, from Sudan to the UAE to the russian, tong and yakuza brothels to the sweatshops in Manhatten to the rich bitches who chain up illegals to clean their floors to the last fucktarded asshat who runs his own kids as his private property.

*GRINS* Get it now?

I'm surprised that no-one else has mentioned the Tea Vs Coffee debate.

I'm surprised that no-one else has mentioned the Tea Vs Coffee debate.
I certainly prefer coffee!
and sometimes tea.
Oh lord, I'm a flipflopper :(

I certainly prefer coffee!
and sometimes tea.
Oh lord, I'm a flipflopper :(
I don't recommend both. It's either tea OR coffee. You can not appreciate the real taste of coffee otherwise.

By being a left-wing paradise instead of a right-wing theocracy?
:rolleyes: Paradise? WHy do have like 50 people living there? THe poor downtrodden masses just to tired of traveling oncethey get to America?

So kids there can buy 1% booze? Whacky, dude. I'd make it 13+ ;) id say 12+. thats ok and with 1% it takes a lot to make them drunk i guess. it tastes just like lemonade: cola or fanta. but a 0,2l bottle costs 2,50€ ! pure robbery but the kids buy it.

I say let Turkey in and then start coming out with EU-wide civil rights mandates including labour laws. :) But I wouldn't count on any government body to actually do something like that without the people demanding it. its a nice idea.
root of the problem is that about 20-30 million turks are expected to come to germany once they join the EU, and in the EU you have free choice of residence...
and our goverment has the habit to govern against it citizens since some time. the majority was against the eu east enlargement, was against turkey and the recent social cuts but they still did it.
Kohl said questioning of citizens is "undemocratic". this goverment still acts according to his opinion... assholes, all of them!

Yes I know about that. But we need to get rid of all of it, from Sudan to the UAE to the russian, tong and yakuza brothels to the sweatshops in Manhatten to the rich bitches who chain up illegals to clean their floors to the last fucktarded asshat who runs his own kids as his private property.

nice utopia. i dont think this will ever be possible, where there is money to be made there will always people who do everything to get it. sad but true.

What issue seems to generate the most strident, knee jerk, partisan, unreasonable people and arguments? Why do you think that is?

Abortion Debate
Gun Control
Iraq War
Kerry vs. Bush election
Women's rights/role
Religion
Race relations
Other (explain)

Try to simply identify the issue and the reason it generates such powerful emotions without actually adopting a position and becoming one of the hardheads. :headbang:


Abortion. No-one in the US is engaging in terrorists killings for any of the others.

Definately homosexual marriage/rights. I voted "other" because that wasn't on the list. See, it seems to me that even the Bush/Kerry and Pro Choice/Pro Life debates have people reading another's post and saying, "Oh, well.... I didn't exactly see it that way. I still disagree, but I can see your point." The homosexuality threads tend to be filled with, "it's evil" and "it's natural" debates that are 100% inflexible on either side. There's no happy medium. Even the, "I don't like it, but as long as I don't see it," people are their own kind of zealots about that. Nobody's stance is moving. Nobody's mind is opened. I'm just as unlikely to change my stance (for enforcing the rights and privelages of homosexuals and their relationships) as anyone else. I'm completely closed to the "god says" or "they already have those rights" arguments as the folks making those arguements are to me. I've stopped posting on those threads for that very reason.

the things youve listed are for americans only. :rolleyes:
The things he mentioned SHOULD be for Americans only, but most of the people in Europe, especially, seem more interested in the Kerry/Bush debate, and the Iraq War, especially, than even Americans.
But really, the thread hit on the head the issues people are most likely to not find middle ground on. However, really, some things are just right or wrong, and a middle ground is not really possible in those instances...The problem is that people do shove alot of "middle ground"type stuff, INTO the right or wrong category.

Abortion. No-one in the US is engaging in terrorists killings for any of the others.

No, but there are killings of homosexuals... and discrimination. It's harder to discriminate against women who've had abortions. But I do agree to a point.

Guns don't kill people. Radical pro-lifers kill people.

id say 12+. thats ok and with 1% it takes a lot to make them drunk i guess. it tastes just like lemonade: cola or fanta. but a 0,2l bottle costs 2,50€ ! pure robbery but the kids buy it.

its a nice idea.
root of the problem is that about 20-30 million turks are expected to come to germany once they join the EU, and in the EU you have free choice of residence...
and our goverment has the habit to govern against it citizens since some time. the majority was against the eu east enlargement, was against turkey and the recent social cuts but they still did it.
Kohl said questioning of citizens is "undemocratic". this goverment still acts according to his opinion... assholes, all of them!


nice utopia. i dont think this will ever be possible, where there is money to be made there will always people who do everything to get it. sad but true.

Well if it was cheaper they'd be drinking six packs of it at a time, so... good that it costs.

So Turkey will be forced to improve or else its labour pool will flee in droves. Good.

And never stop fighting evil! ;)

The things he mentioned SHOULD be for Americans only, but most of the people in Europe, especially, seem more interested in the Kerry/Bush debate, and the Iraq War, especially, than even Americans.
But really, the thread hit on the head the issues people are most likely to not find middle ground on. However, really, some things are just right or wrong, and a middle ground is not really possible in those instances...The problem is that people do shove alot of "middle ground"type stuff, INTO the right or wrong category.The Iraq war should onlly be for americans? Since when is Iraq located in the US?

I picked Kerry v. Bush becuase it encompasses everything else on the list.

Everything on the list and more.

As someone else brought up, extreme jingoism is starting to become a MAJOR problem. That needs to stop as soon as possible.
**Scratches head**
The fellow is posting from his perspective. It's his thread. There is nothing to keep you from starting one of your own or expanding the discussion . . .

The Emperor of Terra Zetegenia believes that gun control has the most unreasonable people debating in it... after all, what other issue literally has lies, such as "Assault weapons, as described by the 1994 ban, are machine guns," reported as truth by the majority, if not vast majority, of news sources? He has yet to hear one station, for example, state that Weapons of Mass Destruction have definately been found in Iraq.

The Emperor of Terra Zetegenia...has yet to hear one station, for example, state that Weapons of Mass Destruction have definately been found in Iraq.

Since no WMD have been found in Iraq I would expect only Rupert Murdoch's FOX network to report that kind of pro-Bush propaganda.

the things youve listed are for americans only. :rolleyes:

Ask an Australian if race relations is only an issue for Americans.

Better yet, ask a Serb.

Class divides people in the US more than anything. This no longer means educational level, it just means $$$.

Somw people will believe, justify, and propogate any damned lies just to hang on to their $$$ and keep other from getting any.

That is why we now have well-off pro-Bush Blacks.

It's a culture war. The haves want more no matter how they get it, and will praise God hallelujah if they can grab some of yours. The have-nots are fed up.

Class divides people in the US more than anything. This no longer means educational level, it just means $$$.

Somw people will believe, justify, and propogate any damned lies just to hang on to their $$$ and keep other from getting any.

That is why we now have well-off pro-Bush Blacks.

It's a culture war. The haves want more no matter how they get it, and will praise God hallelujah if they can grab some of yours. The have-nots are fed up.

I would agree, except I would define the gap, not in dollars, but simple knowledge and in the aquisition of such.

Remember All: You never quit learning.

when you participate in discussions, you will soon learn that you will never convince a person of something they believe in. you can try and let them look stupid, but you wont convince anybody.the point in discussions is to make the other one checkmate (sp) with logic traps, twisting words around, stuff like that, so that your opponent cant answer without an insult, nazi comparison or an obvious lie.
its fun really. just dont take it too serious, or youll soon need a new mouse, keyboard, and girlfriend. :D
Fun is OK. But being exposed to facts not otherwise in evidence is better. There are a lot of different viewpoints with a lot of different sources that expand the horizons of thought on many subjects. Because of this exposure I've learned a lot here I just couldn't have otherwise.

I think it's ironic how many people chose Bush/Kerry. Because of course it's the only one involving two clearcut sides with really rabid morons on both sides, isn't it? For example, in the abortion debate, the anti- side is overloaded with fanatics (not that the pro-choice side doesn't have any) etc, etc.

But here, not only are the sensible people on Bush's side complaining about the morons on Kerry's side and the morons on Kerry's side being unreasonable about the people onBush's side, but also VICE VERSA - because both sides have an equal amount of morons and sensible people.
Certainly at the extremes you'll get that knee jerk dogmatic conversation. But the clear point is to vote for say, Nader or Barabaek is a waste.

I'll agree that neither Bush or Kerry are up to par - but the one choice we have is to nudge things in a way we see as better.

Perfect? Never!

Better? Hopefully.

By being a left-wing paradise instead of a right-wing theocracy?No, by continuing to be a democratic nation instead of willfully sliding into tyranny.
Nice answer! Right on target! :)

Probaly the problem with queers in America.

Abortion and the election are big, but gay marriage (and gay rights in general) beats all.

wow your sure your talking about britain?
in germany its the same. maybe even more polarised, some cry nazi when even mentioning immigration.
really its the same situation. just BNP = NPD here. lol in translation they even have the same name.
There are simialr issues with immigration in the US although there is less cultural impact than in the EU countries. There would appear to be a greater disparity in perception too since the US was peopled with immigrants that came in various waves. Perhaps a look at how it has historically worked through in America would help. I suggest a long term, macro view though because to look at it in the immediate, microcosim of the earlier days you will always find extreme conditions.

- S N I P -

Guns don't kill people. Radical pro-lifers kill people.
Well you already know the flip side of that argument . . .

Certainly at the extremes you'll get that knee jerk dogmatic conversation. But the clear point is to vote for say, Nader or Barabaek is a waste.

I'll agree that neither Bush or Kerry are up to par - but the one choice we have is to nudge things in a way we see as better.

Perfect? Never!

Better? Hopefully.

But what happens when, as in this election, it's not a question of who will make the country better anymore? What happens when it's just a matter of who will cause a slower decline?

I think it's ironic how many people chose Bush/Kerry. Because of course it's the only one involving two clearcut sides with really rabid morons on both sides, isn't it? For example, in the abortion debate, the anti- side is overloaded with fanatics (not that the pro-choice side doesn't have any) etc, etc.

But here, not only are the sensible people on Bush's side complaining about the morons on Kerry's side and the morons on Kerry's side being unreasonable about the people onBush's side, but also VICE VERSA - because both sides have an equal amount of morons and sensible people.

Very aptly put.

Abortion and the election are big, but gay marriage (and gay rights in general) beats all.
On a personal level, perhaps. But genocide seems more poignant from a sheerly human perspective.

But what happens when, as in this election, it's not a question of who will make the country better anymore? What happens when it's just a matter of who will cause a slower decline?
If you consider a decline a given then I must ask, Is a quicker decline better?

What do you suggest as a viable alternative? Voting for a candidate with no chance of making a difference? No difference = No difference. This has been tried and has always failed. There was greater division and disgust in the US when Ross Perot twice went for it. He got 19% of the popular vote. 19%!! That is HUGE for a third party candidate. He got not even one electoral vote and is now a historical footnote. What did he change? Not a thing.

So I'll ask you again, "What do you suggest as a viable alternative?"

Any issue that forces one person to conform to anothers beliefs when that person is doing no harm to no one is wrong to vote on. We should not be trying to tell other people how to live. If you don't like two guys kissing then suck it up and learn to understand something that you do not have and quit being jealous about the love they have. Be happy for them. If you see a woman and man kissing and loving each other then understand that they love one another. If you choose not to live your life one way that another lives it. Then be happy that you do not have to live that lifestyle. Be accepting and understanding that love is what is under attack on any issue that we try to use force with. This destroys peace. So lets change that cycle and quit being so judgemental on each other. No formalities and no labels, Just love, peace and understanding what this is all about.

Arrogant non-Americans that stoop real low to call Americans arrogant.

Hypocritical jerks. argh

religion wins, as far as i am concerned, because not only are there a lot of unreasonable people in those debates, but most of the unreasonable people in OTHER debates are unreasonable due to religion (gay marriage, abortion, women's rights, etc).