NationStates Jolt Archive


Your thoughts on Drug Laws

The Gongites
28-10-2004, 01:12
By which I mean the American drugs laws, but please ignore anyone who says the international side of the debate is to be ignored.

I myself feel that all drugs should be legal and be heavily taxed, but that is just me.
Superpower07
28-10-2004, 01:16
I can't stand drug laws.

As a Libertarian, I subscribe to the idea that "stupdity should be painful" - therefore, while I can't stand for myself to use drugs or nobody else to, people can make mistakes on their own. I really don't think the government needs to protect people from their own stupidity in this case
Chodolo
28-10-2004, 01:17
All drugs legal. ALL drugs. But be careful of too heavily taxing the shit or you'll end up with a black market breaking out again, as has happened with cigerettes. Seriously, people buy cigerettes over the internet because the taxes have gotten rediculous.

As well, by legalizing drugs, organized crime would be gutted. Turf wars would go down.

We saw all this during Prohibition, with the Mafia, but we close our eyes now.

There is no rational reason why drugs are illegal.
Indiru
28-10-2004, 01:23
Out with 'em! Acid trips for all...WEEEEEEEEE!
The Gongites
28-10-2004, 01:31
All drugs legal. ALL drugs. But be careful of too heavily taxing the shit or you'll end up with a black market breaking out again, as has happened with cigerettes. Seriously, people buy cigerettes over the internet because the taxes have gotten rediculous.

Well, I was thinking that the prices really wouldn't cgange, I mean, you know how much some mushrooms can go for at Booneroo?
Utracia
28-10-2004, 01:33
Throw some drug dealer ass in prison for a LONG time and give treatment to users.
The Gongites
28-10-2004, 01:34
Throw some drug dealer ass in prison for a LONG time and give treatment to users.

Not all users are addicted street freaks, and not all dealers are evil boogie man slamming needles into school yard children.
Utracia
28-10-2004, 01:43
Not all users are addicted street freaks, and not all dealers are evil boogie man slamming needles into school yard children.

A dealer is a dealer. There is no excuse for dealing drugs.
Letila
28-10-2004, 01:48
I think we should legalize drugs and do something about the conditions that lead people to want to use drugs.
Utracia
28-10-2004, 01:53
I think we should legalize drugs and do something about the conditions that lead people to want to use drugs.

white powder everywhere...
Amyst
28-10-2004, 02:10
Legalize drugs and put some taxes on them - not too high, as someone else mentioned.

Legalization would increase the safety of the drugs, reduce crime, stop actual criminals from being released to make room for drug users that aren't hurting anyone but themselves, and free police resources to pursue real crimes.
Skibereen
28-10-2004, 02:14
By which I mean the American drugs laws, but please ignore anyone who says the international side of the debate is to be ignored.

I myself feel that all drugs should be legal and be heavily taxed, but that is just me.
I agree with you.
This would free space in our prisons for people who have victims to their crimes.
It would create a massive source of revenue.
It would immediately put most drug dealers out of Business.
The bonuses are endless and clear.
Onion Pirates
28-10-2004, 05:17
Our sentencing system is out of whack. We have to quickly parole armed felons, bank robbers, even murderers, to make room for nonviolent (drug) status offenders.

We need to get some proportion back in our penal system.

Mandatory sentences and 3-strike rules have made no noticieable change in the drug trade.
Dobbs Town
28-10-2004, 05:25
I'm lighting up right - now. My own homegrown Freizeland. Yum yum. Anyone else care to share?
Pepe Dominguez
28-10-2004, 05:25
[QUOTE=Onion Pirates]Our sentencing system is out of whack. We have to quickly parole armed felons, bank robbers, even murderers, to make room for nonviolent (drug) status offenders.
QUOTE]

It's not that bad.. my brother only got three years (min.) for possession, and he's probably only going to end up doing 3 and a half, since we have "conduct days" in California.

Plus: check it out!

http://www.corr.ca.gov/InstitutionsDiv/INSTDIV/facilities/fac_prison_CVSP.asp

He can learn masonry and welding! And Basketball! Every day! :p

I'd have to pay good money to learn welding at a trade school, but he's on easy street!
Nation of Fortune
28-10-2004, 05:27
I believe we should legalize drugs, and tax them. Marijuana should be put into use like tobbacco. But harder drugs, like coke, should be used in a drug house, where they can be supervised, so they don't harm themselves or others.
Zyonn
28-10-2004, 05:29
I don't see why the government should have any say as to what people do with their own bodies and minds. And couldn't the time spent chasing down drug-users who aren't hurting anyone else be put to better use stopping violent criminals?

And as a side-note, I've seen people get into alot more trouble drinking than doing drugs.
Lunatic Goofballs
28-10-2004, 05:31
By which I mean the American drugs laws, but please ignore anyone who says the international side of the debate is to be ignored.

I myself feel that all drugs should be legal and be heavily taxed, but that is just me.

I think the current drug laws are the biggest load of corporate kiss-assery ever.

Whether a drug gets made illegal or not depends on the lobbying power of corporations, and not on the drug's actual effects.
Onion Pirates
28-10-2004, 05:32
More and more jails are privatized now. Most new ones are privately owned, I think.

The owners of these franchise prison chains are major political donors, to both parties.

The situation is becoming reminiscent of the "military industrial elite" which Ike decried.

The government keeps laws in effect, include nonsense drug laws, so that their rich pals will have full occupancy (for which the governmant pays, of course).

When their political careers are over, the pols go to work for the prison franchise, just like they used to with Northrop and Grumman.
Khockist
28-10-2004, 05:41
It's not an easy solution. I'm more against the dealers than the actual drugs or users themselves. They probably should be legalized because then we'd have a lot more mellow nations. Let's face it, if everyone was smoking pot there would be no wars. At the UN they'd all sit together and discuss the philisophy of Star Wars. Saddam would have been to happy to oppress his people and George W... Well I think he's already on them but he should be upping his dosage. And then we'd be able to walk around Hollywood and have every single agent looking paranoid fueled by idiot fuel. And Keith Richards would be the President of the US. That'd be great waking up to the National Anthem (Satisfaction) and Willie Nelson could be Vice President. It would be a nice place... :)
Kelonian States
28-10-2004, 05:45
I think non-harmful (and by that I mean 'less harmful than what the government are quite happy to collect tax on already', and not actually 'not at all damaging') drugs such as marijuana and certain hallucinogens should be legalised, while drugs which have guaranteed serious effects (such as heroin) should remain illegal.

The shit you get with using heroin is far too serious for the average person to be able to deal with without help, and so they should never be allowed by any responsible government to buy it. The job of a government is to protect us, even from ourselves, and I think that given the inevitably damaging nature of drugs such as heroin, they should remain illegal, but I've never really seen the problem with marijuana when the government are quite happy to collect taxes on the sale of (far more damaging) tobacco. Hallicinogens are more of a debatable issue, though, as they can mess you up - no-one ever really jumped out of a window on LSD because they thought they could fly, but a bad trip can seriously mess you up...

I guess my thoughts come down to -
Legalise marijuana, legalise hallucinogens that don't remain in the body, and tax them. Release all prisoners currently serving terms for non-violent drug crimes (except the most big-time dealers - remember, heroin is still illegal in my idea). Disband the 'War on Drugs', send those cops after real criminals who are a real threat to society. You could even pay for a few more cops with the money you start raking in from dope taxes. But will this happen? Never. Because drugs are still the real boogieman of the white suburban family with a picket fence, an SUV and new decking on the porch.

I'm sure there are plenty of tobacco companies who would love to open new lines of business, so I don't think it's corporations keeping these drugs illegal - I think it's the fact they're still the middle-class boogieman, and anyone who questions their absolute evilness is instantly seen as a no-good tree-hugging hippy drug-dealer who hates America.
Nation of Fortune
28-10-2004, 05:50
I think non-harmful (and by that I mean 'less harmful than what the government are quite happy to collect tax on already', and not actually 'not at all damaging') drugs such as marijuana.......snip........... no-good tree-hugging hippy drug-dealer who hates America.
Icouldn't say it better myself that is the absolute truth. I can't believe someone that has almost the exact same ideals as me is here, it's crazy i tell you
Kelonian States
28-10-2004, 06:00
Icouldn't say it better myself that is the absolute truth. I can't believe someone that has almost the exact same ideals as me is here, it's crazy i tell you

Why thank you - maybe I should form my own political party after all... :p
Nation of Fortune
28-10-2004, 06:07
Why thank you - maybe I should form my own political party after all... :p
perhaps you should :p i'd vote for you
Dobbs Town
28-10-2004, 06:14
Yes indeed...mighty fine friezeland I'm just finishing. Anyone else smokin'?
Nation of Fortune
28-10-2004, 06:16
Yes indeed...mighty fine friezeland I'm just finishing. Anyone else smokin'?
No....... but i do have a bong sitting on my desk, it says amsterdam on it and it has a picture of a pot leaf
Dobbs Town
28-10-2004, 06:18
No....... but i do have a bong sitting on my desk, it says amsterdam on it and it has a picture of a pot leaf

Kinda like having a french tickler but no french women on hand, n'est-ce pas?
Nation of Fortune
28-10-2004, 06:20
yup
Kissingly
28-10-2004, 06:28
The only drugs that are illegal are the ones that make minority groups more wealthy or can put minority groups in jail.

case in point, oxycoting is as addictive and destructive as heroine. Rush Limbaugh.

Legalize drugs but don't make them government unless it is heroine. It will help make black people rich. If we legalize it and set it up through the government, all of a sudden the white rich guys will be "contracting" service for the government and as Kanye says "the white man getting paid off of all that"

As for teaching people trades in jail, why? they can't get jobs when they get out any ways.

Before anyone screams at me, I don't hate white guys, I am white myself. I just talking about that five percent of people that own like 90 percent of american money, that 99 percent of are white men.
Mac the Man
28-10-2004, 06:39
Well, I disagree with a lot of posters on this forum because I believe the responsibility of government is to protect us from having our rights infringed upon by others ... not to protect us from ourselves. We have the right to be self-destructive in my opinion.

Legalizing drugs, though, is a tough issue. The government doesn't want to because they'd lose huge amounts of money and could probably get rid of large amounts of the police force in most cities (which is not a popular move for government). We also have national healthcare, so if we legalize drugs, we'd just be paying for any addicts to be rehabilitated or taken care of for the rest of their remaining life.

I'd be all for legalizing all drugs if we could also include the statment, "use at your own risk" and actually mean it for a change ... meaning, if you start seeing spiders all over your body from a bad trip and throw yourself out of a window screaming only to be rushed to the hospital and kept alive as a paraplegic ... that's your own damn fault and taxpayers shouldn't have to cover the expense of doing something dumb. Maybe we could, I don't know, educate people about drugs also so we'd have responsible users?

*drags the horse he shot over a year ago into the street again and begins beating it with its own leg*
Sheilanagig
28-10-2004, 06:52
I can't stand drug laws.

As a Libertarian, I subscribe to the idea that "stupdity should be painful" - therefore, while I can't stand for myself to use drugs or nobody else to, people can make mistakes on their own. I really don't think the government needs to protect people from their own stupidity in this case

I vehemently agree. As for laws concerning drugs that are easily grown by anyone, or simple to manufacture, I don't see why they waste their time trying to enforce laws that are simply paper tigers. So much money goes down the drain. I can understand the law covering something like the welfare of children who, through no fault of their own are in the care of stupid addicts, or people who get run down in the street by a drunk, but otherwise, if the only person the user is hurting is him/herself, let them. In old, un-politically correct parlance, they can do what they want, they're free, white and 21.
Domici
28-10-2004, 07:59
A dealer is a dealer. There is no excuse for dealing drugs.

Tautology is a tautology. There is no excuse for intelectual laziness.
Domici
28-10-2004, 08:02
You know federal drug laws are unconstitutional to begin with.
Take a look at the constitution. Congress can make laws that deal with taxes, trade between states, and the military. Every amendment that says that something is against the law also includes the sentence "Congress shall have the power to enact legislation to enforce this." Until we have an amendment that bans drugs, as we did with alcohol, there can be no federal law against drugs that are not made in one state and sold in another.
The Class A Cows
28-10-2004, 08:12
By which I mean the American drugs laws, but please ignore anyone who says the international side of the debate is to be ignored.

I myself feel that all drugs should be legal and be heavily taxed, but that is just me.

I disagree. Marijuana and Wisdom Sage should be legalized and heavy health warnings and age restrictions placed on them ala tabbaco/alcohol. Some stimulants could be sold medicinally too OTC but under heavy regulation, and not under any current system for control, there would need to be a new infrastructure.

Taxing them is ok but marijuana companies in particular are now doing what tabbaco companies did. We need to educate people about the lies which are being published as truth on a widespread basis by reminding them of the significant health risks of drug abuse. Warning labels have proven effective in the US for controlling tabbaco. Also, as an illegal drug, there is no effective age limitation. This can be improved.
Robotic Obedience
28-10-2004, 12:40
A dealer is a dealer. There is no excuse for dealing drugs.

<sarcasm>you're absolutely right. there is no excuse for selling alcohol and cigarettes. lock the bastards up.</sarcasm>
Robotic Obedience
28-10-2004, 13:10
I'd be all for legalizing all drugs if we could also include the statment, "use at your own risk" and actually mean it for a change ... meaning, if you start seeing spiders all over your body from a bad trip and throw yourself out of a window screaming only to be rushed to the hospital and kept alive as a paraplegic ... that's your own damn fault and taxpayers shouldn't have to cover the expense of doing something dumb. Maybe we could, I don't know, educate people about drugs also so we'd have responsible users?

*drags the horse he shot over a year ago into the street again and begins beating it with its own leg*

couldn't agree more. people need to take responsibility for their own actions.

there is also a difference between an addict and someone who does not want to give up. The majority of people in my experience (and I'm reasonably well placed to have lots of it) can give up, but don't want to. Thus, they should not be allowed to say that any consequences were not directly their own fault.

then again, once again from experience, I know that the majority of people who are intelligent and mature, are quite capable of using just about any substance without issue (apart from the obvious - smoke something and you will do damage - the human body was not designed to hold smoke. some, like heorin, which are demonised, are actually easier to use in a non-harmful way, than marijuana, which is normally advocated as a non-harmful substance [it is pretty much non-harmful if you eat it, but how many peope are going to do that when it's easier to smoke.)

there is one thing with legalising, that I think needs to be understood by those who advocate some being legal and others not - you cannot have anything but inequity if you do that. this is already displayed by the issue of legal drugs (eg, alcohol, cogarettes, valium) vs illegal drugs.
either all must be legal (the only logical and sane choice, because no benefits can be shown for prohibition, whereas benefits of legalisation are fairly obvious, starting with the fact that many violent groups control a lot of the trade as long as it is illegal, through lack of purity and dosage level control, and removal of an excuse to legally persecute ethnic minorities) or all illegal.

drug prohibition is only in the interests of criminals and governments.