NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean come on! Below this thread is one in which the poster calls Democrats "fascists". Some liberals call Republicans "Nazis". I have found that it doesn't seem unusual for people to hate people of the other party.

Over here, in election seasons there is of course partisanship and even some smearing. But in the USA, it's scorched-earth politics. Here parties spend most of their time talking about how great they are. In the USA, parties spend most of their time talking about how evil the other party is.

Is it something in the American psyche? Personally I think that it's a result of the two-party system. When you split people into just two groups, they get to hate each other.

We are surly by nature :-D specially us Midwesterners

Don't worry, it's just this site. America as a whole is far more civilized than this. But part of what we do is involve ourselves in spirited, yet dirty dialogue. Of course, we all know it's nothing personal (we're great at that level, just like everyone else). It is as American as apple pie.
P.S. If you think it's a result of the two-party system, well, we must love it. It's been around since at least 1800, but it was even worse. Far worse.

Emotionalism over logical discourse.

You may be right about the 2 party system...in any case, this year is heated because Bush is, well, a polarizing guy. I doubt people were getting so crazy over Clinton's re-election campaign against Dole.

However, the partisan snapshot on NS is more likely because partisans are drawn to political forums. Moderates aren't as interested.

You may be right about the 2 party system...in any case, this year is heated because Bush is, well, a polarizing guy. I doubt people were getting so crazy over Clinton's re-election campaign against Dole.
I think that had one of the lowest turnouts in US history, actually.

Don't worry, it's just this site. America as a whole is far more civilized than this.
I'm also going on what I hear from newspapers here. My newspaper has a few articles on the US Pres Election every day. I swear, at least 40% of each campaign is smearing against the other candidate. Recently, RTE News did a report on Texas as Bush's home state. They were speaking to a few random Texans and it was mostly all "uhh I hate liberals; Democrats = socialist swine!"

I'm also going on what I hear from newspapers here. My newspaper has a few articles on the US Pres Election every day. I swear, at least 40% of each campaign is smearing against the other candidate. Recently, RTE News did a report on Texas as Bush's home state. They were speaking to a few random Texans and it was mostly all "uhh I hate liberals; Democrats = socialist swine!"
As I said, however, it was worse in the past. The 1800 election is regarded as the dirtiest. John Adams called Thomas Jefferson an athiest, and a dangerous man that favored Jacobin-style rule of America. Jefferson called Adams a monarchist, and said he had four English mistresses. Of course, that didn't compare to one comment by John Quincy Adams in the election of 1824: He called Andrew Jackson's mother a whore. But at least in this election, we all understand that our attacks on eachother are nothing personal. It's a quirky little part of an average American's mindset.

I think many americans get so worked up because of the dichotomies of our country. I think the diversity is what causes the very deep diffrences.

However I do agree that what is wonderful about our country is the ability to work around those sort of things in every day life. I'm very partisan and have a pretty deep dislike of the party that I disagree with, yet half of my friends belong to that very party. Yeah, when we talk about politics I get really pissed at them, but whenever we move onto other topics that anger just dissipates. Hell, my neighbors are of the opposite party and I haven't gone over there with pitchfork and burning torch in hand...yet.... ;)

I think many americans get so worked up because of the dichotomies of our country. I think the diversity is what causes the very deep diffrences.

However I do agree that what is wonderful about our country is the ability to work around those sort of things in every day life. I'm very partisan and have a pretty deep dislike of the party that I disagree with, yet half of my friends belong to that very party. Yeah, when we talk about politics I get really pissed at them, but whenever we move onto other topics that anger just dissipates. Hell, my neighbors are of the opposite party and I haven't gone over their with pitchfork and burning torch in hand...yet.... ;)
Yup we are usually only surly like that discussing politics (or a few personal pet peeves)

I'm also going on what I hear from newspapers here. My newspaper has a few articles on the US Pres Election every day. I swear, at least 40% of each campaign is smearing against the other candidate. Recently, RTE News did a report on Texas as Bush's home state. They were speaking to a few random Texans and it was mostly all "uhh I hate liberals; Democrats = socialist swine!"

Texans, the majority anyway, are conservative and outspoken. I've got relatives there who would tell the President (doesn't matter which one) to kiss their ass if they felt like it.

This election year is really bitter because Bush has managed to unite Americans into two camps: Bush supporters and Bush haters. So the candidates have been playing to their supporters by bashing the other guy instead of doing what they usually do, which is take the middle ground and try to look like nice guys for swing voters.

I also think that this nature is from the two party system, which is very irrating if you don't agree with your canidate, causing an extra bit of anger in every political debate you watch.

I think, to an extent, America has gotten caught up in this election like no other. The media is less trustworthy, the issues are bigger. Governmental cynicism is at a post-Vietnam era high. The rise of widespread partisan information outlets. The North/South sentimentality. The big city/country dichotomy, with the suburban undecideds. Discontent from the last election. world events. Race issues being emphasised. A national tragedy.

We live in seriously interesting times. Because of this, most of us may be more self-centeredly American than is our usual behavior.

As I said, however, it was worse in the past. The 1800 election is regarded as the dirtiest. John Adams called Thomas Jefferson an athiest, and a dangerous man that favored Jacobin-style rule of America. Jefferson called Adams a monarchist, and said he had four English mistresses. Of course, that didn't compare to one comment by John Quincy Adams in the election of 1824: He called Andrew Jackson's mother a whore. But at least in this election, we all understand that our attacks on eachother are nothing personal. It's a quirky little part of an average American's mindset.

I personally think that would be the most awesome election ever. In fact, throw in the whore comment and it just gets better.

Of course, that didn't compare to one comment by John Quincy Adams in the election of 1824: He called Andrew Jackson's mother a whore.
What a bastard! (I mean Adams)

What a bastard! (I mean Adams)
That particular comment was a little harsh. However, remember how I said Adams Sr. and Jefferson ripped eachother apart? They served as president and vice president. I don't know if it was successful, but Adams's last words were "Jefferson lives", showing that he at least respected the man. Ironically, Jefferson died just an hour and a half before he did, on July 4, 1826. That was exactly fifty years after we declared our independence from the British.

What a bastard! (I mean Adams)
Was that a pun? Why'd you have to do that you ruined this entire thread for me. I hate puns. All puns are bad. All puns must die. Die puns die. :mad:

Why do Americans do anything?

I'm also going on what I hear from newspapers here. My newspaper has a few articles on the US Pres Election every day. I swear, at least 40% of each campaign is smearing against the other candidate. Recently, RTE News did a report on Texas as Bush's home state. They were speaking to a few random Texans and it was mostly all "uhh I hate liberals; Democrats = socialist swine!"
Considering that you are from Ireland, I find it extremely ironic that you feel this way about our politics. I might as well ask how you feel about the Brits, or possibly the Presbyterians/Catholics depending on your view. Granted, Northern ireland isn't indicative of the rest of your island. However, I find it hard to believe that centuries of conflict could be so easily forgotten.

That particular comment was a little harsh. However, remember how I said Adams Sr. and Jefferson ripped eachother apart? They served as president and vice president. I don't know if it was successful, but Adams's last words were "Jefferson lives", showing that he at least respected the man. Ironically, Jefferson died just an hour and a half before he did, on July 4, 1826. That was exactly fifty years after we declared our independence from the British.
Another interesting fact is that situations such as the enmity between Adams and Jefferson resulted in electoral law being changed so that the Vice-President would be of the same party as the President. Totally, off topic, I know.

Another interesting fact is that situations such as the enmity between Adams and Jefferson resulted in electoral law being changed so that the Vice-President would be of the same party as the President. Totally, off topic, I know.
Yeah would have been funny as hell seeing Bush and Gore as President and Vice President wouldn't have. Every morning would start with those two arguing over who should be president. :D

I mean come on! Below this thread is one in which the poster calls Democrats "fascists". Some liberals call Republicans "Nazis". I have found that it doesn't seem unusual for people to hate people of the other party.

Over here, in election seasons there is of course partisanship and even some smearing. But in the USA, it's scorched-earth politics. Here parties spend most of their time talking about how great they are. In the USA, parties spend most of their time talking about how evil the other party is.

Is it something in the American psyche? Personally I think that it's a result of the two-party system. When you split people into just two groups, they get to hate each other.

it might also have something to do with the perception by people in both parties that their opponents are fundamentally deluded or criminally insane. of course, we know this to be true about one of the parties - there's been studies and such.

Over here, in election seasons there is of course partisanship and even some smearing. But in the USA, it's scorched-earth politics. Here parties spend most of their time talking about how great they are. In the USA, parties spend most of their time talking about how evil the other party is.

I noticed from your post that you live in Dublin. I think if you take the N-1 north for about 100 miles you will find some pretty fair examples of partisanship run amok. Especially during the "marching season" in July.

Keep in mind for all the rhetoric and scorched earth tactics (especially from the Republicans), only about 55% of registered Americans vote. Partisans on both sides make a lot of noise, but unfortunately, most Americans are distressingly non-political. I say distressingly because in this democratic nation it is generally considered poor form to actual discuss politics - the lifeblood of democracy.

However, you are right. Americans have not seen this level of nasty partisanship since the decades after the American Civil War.

They are vicious in their partisanship because they are vicious in temperament.

Yea, the two-party system sucks. Especially since neither party represents me.

I don't know if it was successful, but Adams's last words were "Jefferson lives", showing that he at least respected the man. Ironically, Jefferson died just an hour and a half before he did, on July 4, 1826. That was exactly fifty years after we declared our independence from the British.

Are you sure Adams wasn't just complaining and didn't have the strength to say the full sentence "I can't believe that I'm about to drop and that bastard Jefferson lives?"

The two party system ends up pitting religious fundementalists against intellectuals. Every issue has to either end up on the agenda of the religious fundementalists or the intellectuals.
The parties are seen by one another as essentially agents of fundementalism/atheist intellectualism.

This sort of hatred is lacking in more civilized countries because they have multi-party governments which allow the religious fundementalists to be marginalized.


Religious fundementalists and intellectuals generally hate one another.

After four years of vicous nasty attacks on Bush, Republicans and conservatives are fed up, and now the far left wing, neo-libs have pushed Kerry and Dean to the front of the party, like they have some sort of self-immolation wish.

Also, americans are unhealthy and eat garbage and live in a poisonous environment.

Also, americans are uneducated, and americans are assailed by fear-mongering from all sides, and invasive advertising. Also, american are stressed out about economic matters because america has no social safety net.

It's a country of mentally unhealthy people.

In my experience on this site, Europeans seem to be just as intense as Americans. The reason why Americans are more partisan is because thay have two actual choices to argue about, as opposed to a pletora of socialist parties.

I mean come on! Below this thread is one in which the poster calls Democrats "fascists". Some liberals call Republicans "Nazis". I have found that it doesn't seem unusual for people to hate people of the other party.

Over here, in election seasons there is of course partisanship and even some smearing. But in the USA, it's scorched-earth politics. Here parties spend most of their time talking about how great they are. In the USA, parties spend most of their time talking about how evil the other party is.

Is it something in the American psyche? Personally I think that it's a result of the two-party system. When you split people into just two groups, they get to hate each other.

if you smear the other candidate you don't actually have to talk about things that really count. Most americans are so caught up in the religous/ trust issues that they don't seem to notice when both candidates are saying nothing at all. This site is full of people actually interested in this sort of thing but I find the finger pointing obnoxious on both sides.

I think, to an extent, America has gotten caught up in this election like no other. The media is less trustworthy, the issues are bigger. Governmental cynicism is at a post-Vietnam era high. The rise of widespread partisan information outlets. The North/South sentimentality. The big city/country dichotomy, with the suburban undecideds. Discontent from the last election. world events. Race issues being emphasised. A national tragedy.

We live in seriously interesting times. Because of this, most of us may be more self-centeredly American than is our usual behavior.

Hear hear! I don't think I agree with you more than half the time, but I very much like how you worded this!

Don't worry, it's just this site. America as a whole is far more civilized than this. But part of what we do is involve ourselves in spirited, yet dirty dialogue. Of course, we all know it's nothing personal (we're great at that level, just like everyone else). It is as American as apple pie.
P.S. If you think it's a result of the two-party system, well, we must love it. It's been around since at least 1800, but it was even worse. Far worse.
actually the country is not more civilized then this Board tho...its just as viciously split

I'm also going on what I hear from newspapers here. My newspaper has a few articles on the US Pres Election every day. I swear, at least 40% of each campaign is smearing against the other candidate. Recently, RTE News did a report on Texas as Bush's home state. They were speaking to a few random Texans and it was mostly all "uhh I hate liberals; Democrats = socialist swine!"
the reason why is Bush has nothing but smears and fears to run on since his record is total crap

After four years of vicous nasty attacks on Bush, Republicans and conservatives are fed up, and now the far left wing, neo-libs have pushed Kerry and Dean to the front of the party, like they have some sort of self-immolation wish.
thats not true you rightwing liar--republicans invented the politics of personal destruction in the 90s

thats not true you rightwing liar--republicans invented the politics of personal destruction in the 90s

Indeed, this revolting republican garbage of personal attacks began against clinton in 92 and was even used against fellow republicans in ensuing primaries.

Indeed, this revolting republican garbage of personal attacks began against clinton in 92 and was even used against fellow republicans in ensuing primaries.
I know--it wasnt until VERY recently that democrats even began fighting back at all.

thats not true you rightwing liar--republicans invented the politics of personal destruction in the 90s

Didn't we just go through a discussion (see post, about 7 or 8) about how the smear tactics were first used in the US by Jefferson and Adams? So did the republicans invent them in the same way that Columbus discovered america?

The reason why Americans are more partisan is because thay have two actual choices to argue about, as opposed to a pletora of socialist parties.
Don't try to pretend that you have more choice than Europeans do. We can choose far-left, centre-left, centrist, centre-right/conservative, neoliberal/libertarian or far-right. Maybe you would like to point out a European country where the voters only have a choice of socialism vs. socialism? From our point of view you have a choice between a moderate conservative party (Democrats) and a far-right reactionary party (Republicans).

I noticed from your post that you live in Dublin. I think if you take the N-1 north for about 100 miles you will find some pretty fair examples of partisanship run amok. Especially during the "marching season" in July.

Thanks, I didn't know that. :rolleyes: See below.

Considering that you are from Ireland, I find it extremely ironic that you feel this way about our politics. I might as well ask how you feel about the Brits, or possibly the Presbyterians/Catholics depending on your view. Granted, Northern ireland isn't indicative of the rest of your island. However, I find it hard to believe that centuries of conflict could be so easily forgotten.
Yes, in Northern Ireland many people are fiercely partisan, because there is also just two sides to be on, really. The rest of us are not like that. We regard the British conflict as a foreign attack, rather something to be internally partisan about.

Thanks, I didn't know that. :rolleyes: See below.


Yes, in Northern Ireland many people are fiercely partisan, because there is also just two sides to be on, really. The rest of us are not like that. We regard the British conflict as a foreign attack, rather something to be internally partisan about.

I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the sarcasm of my remarks. Perhaps I needed little smiley pictures. I think you have found an answer to your original question. The partisanship in the U.S. over politics (and perhaps Northern Ireland, as well) is precisely because so many people believe there "are just two sides to be on." Of course there are many other sides to be on for both Americans and the Irish, but as Yeats said, when "the worst
are full of passionate intensity," then "the centre cannot hold."

Considering that you are from Ireland, I find it extremely ironic that you feel this way about our politics. I might as well ask how you feel about the Brits, or possibly the Presbyterians/Catholics depending on your view. Granted, Northern ireland isn't indicative of the rest of your island. However, I find it hard to believe that centuries of conflict could be so easily forgotten.

After four years of vicous nasty attacks on Bush, Republicans and conservatives are fed up, and now the far left wing, neo-libs have pushed Kerry and Dean to the front of the party, like they have some sort of self-immolation wish.


I think both these quotes sum up Siljhouettes's point quite nicely in different ways. The first one is an attack rather than talking about or attacking the point that was made, they've gone out to discredit the origional post. The second one is self explanitory, it simply attacks the other party.

Yes - it's when the Left is threatened with losing their hold over the national treasury or some of their political power that all hell breaks loose. Most of the worst partisans here call President Bush a chimp and want to see him assassinated in office.

I mean come on! Below this thread is one in which the poster calls Democrats "fascists". Some liberals call Republicans "Nazis". I have found that it doesn't seem unusual for people to hate people of the other party.

Over here, in election seasons there is of course partisanship and even some smearing. But in the USA, it's scorched-earth politics. Here parties spend most of their time talking about how great they are. In the USA, parties spend most of their time talking about how evil the other party is.

Is it something in the American psyche? Personally I think that it's a result of the two-party system. When you split people into just two groups, they get to hate each other.Well, that's the US way of life: demonize your opponent/enemy, then you no longer have to worry about morals. That works within the country against followers of the opponent party as well as against foreign "rogue" states.

Yes - it's when the Left is threatened with losing their hold over the national treasury or some of their political power that all hell breaks loose. Most of the worst partisans here call President Bush a chimp and want to see him assassinated in office.
theyre just being patriotic

America is a pretty screwed up country. After destroying 98% of it's native people, settlers dragged even more humans over from Africa and enslaved them for more than two hundered years. Then when other minorities came over from europe in the 1890's all traces of their native culture were wiped clean with the changing of Gelbfisch to Goldwyn, and families started over. Anyone and everyone tried to or was forced to be as white, anglo-saxon, and protestant as possible.

Ahh, America, the land of freedom and tolerence.

Thus, we hold desperately to that last shred of influence: political parties.

There will always be those who are conservative and do not want anything to change and those who are liberal and want everything to change. There is constant discontent because neither can fully have it's own way. Change is a constant and what keeps progress progressing, but tradition is the anchor that keeps the boat from being lost at sea.

I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the sarcasm of my remarks. Perhaps I needed little smiley pictures. I think you have found an answer to your original question. The partisanship in the U.S. over politics (and perhaps Northern Ireland, as well) is precisely because so many people believe there "are just two sides to be on." Of course there are many other sides to be on for both Americans and the Irish, but as Yeats said, when "the worst
are full of passionate intensity," then "the centre cannot hold."
Although NI people are becoming more moderate and sensible, for a long time, realistically, you had to be either nationalist or unionist. The moderate comprimise people were relatively few in number. Kind of like the third parties in America.

Yes - it's when the Left is threatened with losing their hold over the national treasury or some of their political power that all hell breaks loose. Most of the worst partisans here call President Bush a chimp and want to see him assassinated in office.

Ah, of course it's only the left that is at fault. When Republicans lose they just accept it without question.

Yes - it's when the Left is threatened with losing their hold over the national treasury or some of their political power that all hell breaks loose. Most of the worst partisans here call President Bush a chimp and want to see him assassinated in office.
Yeah, because it was lefties who said "A vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism!" (MunkeBrain) and "I want to see Michael Moore die" (Deacon). :rolleyes:

Yeah, because it was lefties who said "A vote for Kerry is a vote for terrorism!" (MunkeBrain) and "I want to see Michael Moore die" (Deacon). :rolleyes:

That is taken completely out of context. You would have to read the whole thread to see what I was on about. I object. Also for all you know I'm a kerry voter/

I'd still like to see fatso buy the farm though.

That is taken completely out of context. You would have to read the whole thread to see what I was on about. I object. Also for all you know I'm a kerry voter/

I'd still like to see fatso buy the farm though.
if the fatso your referring to is Moore all I gotta say is we all should show some very deep respect for what hes done to raise peoples awareness of the Resident Evil in the White House

Yes - it's when the Left is threatened with losing their hold over the national treasury or some of their political power that all hell breaks loose. Most of the worst partisans here call President Bush a chimp and want to see him assassinated in office.

Dammit that's not partisanship; it's a love of tradition. We've killed all our presidents elected in a year ending in zero. Even Reagan lost a chunk of colon to a gunshot wound. :mp5: