NationStates Jolt Archive

Aight, need some help. Friday, I got a debate planned on the subject. I am required to have three main topics for secularism in school, and three sources(online ones are what everyone uses).

I am having trouble setting this up, mostly because I didnt use the 6 weeks I had to plan for it. Anyways, this is what I have so far.

*Seperation of Church and State(Public school) not enforced-
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/shb/white_15_1.htm

*Discrimination of minority religions

*Freedom of religion with limits
(Declaration of the rights of man and citizen, Bill of rights give freedom of religion with limitations allowing seperation of C&S, other limitations)

*Breaking of dress codes
**Cheating with head scarves, etc

I don't have much, and while im a good debater, I would really appreciate if people had some good sources, etc for info on this, arguments for and against.

Religeon is bullshit
dresscodes are a violation of a person's right to choose
that's the way it is

This is a somewhat dated general overview of US laws about seperation of Church and State: http://archive.aclu.org/issues/religion/relig7.html


you should be able to get a decent idea of specific areas which interest you from this. This site can be useful for also :http://www.religioustolerance.org/sep_c_st.htm

Aight, need some help.
Well, I can't help you with sources, as I've never looked into the issue - but off the top of my head:

Schools are supposed to teach subjects which will be useful in later life, yes? You you could argue that either:
i)religion will not get you a job, increase your education etc so should be excluded, or
ii) that because everyone has the right to make up their own mind on religious matters, suppressing information on religion violates their right to make an informed choice.

Religion has been a major historical influence on society, so:
i) a failure to teach the basic tenets of the relevant religions of the period makes the study of history impractical,
ii) that doing so would bias your view of history.

Public schools are paid for by the taxpayer, so
i) religion in schools is forcing athiests to support religion, or
ii) banning religion in schools is forcing religious people to support secularism.

The secret to any good debate is too ensure that people will be *interested*. What's the 'feel' of your class? Do they take one position or another for granted? If so, *avoid* that position, and shift the debate to something they've either never considered (making them think) or which will polarise the class (ensuring involvement).
Good Luck!

Well, I can't help you with sources, as I've never looked into the issue - but off the top of my head:

Schools are supposed to teach subjects which will be useful in later life, yes? You you could argue that either:
i)religion will not get you a job, increase your education etc so should be excluded, or
ii) that because everyone has the right to make up their own mind on religious matters, suppressing information on religion violates their right to make an informed choice.

Religion has been a major historical influence on society, so:
i) a failure to teach the basic tenets of the relevant religions of the period makes the study of history impractical,
ii) that doing so would bias your view of history.

Public schools are paid for by the taxpayer, so
i) religion in schools is forcing athiests to support religion, or
ii) banning religion in schools is forcing religious people to support secularism.

The secret to any good debate is too ensure that people will be *interested*. What's the 'feel' of your class? Do they take one position or another for granted? If so, *avoid* that position, and shift the debate to something they've either never considered (making them think) or which will polarise the class (ensuring involvement).
Good Luck!

Its a california honors class...Intelligent liberals, with a few pubbies.... I don't think anything I say one way or another is gonna affect it, I just need three good points. You did give some good ones too.

People should have the right to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't force it down other people's throats. For example, I wasn't allowed to cut up a pig's heart in biology, because there was one Jewish lad in our class. One. ONE! Surely it would have been easier to have sent the boy to another class for that time. However, his mother had made multiple formal complaints about it, actually praying for us at one point, so the school folded and we didn't get to learn. I suppose there was also the fact that be excluding the Jewish boy from our class, it would look as though the school was anti-jewish, which it sorta was being a hard-nosed anglican school. And full of Nazis.

Also that whole headscarf in France thing? Why are the muslim girls banned? Its like the French saying "we will prevent faith from entering our schools by burning it from the children's minds!" what they gonna think when they grow up? once again proving that france is more xenophobic than britain.

how about a MONEY angle? its expensive to have to teach all the various religious points of view that exist in the US today. after all, if you teach ONE you have to teach them all. if we cant afford art and music, we cant afford religion

*Seperation of Church and State(Public school) not enforced-
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/shb/white_15_1.htm

I feel bad for the kid. Kudos to him for standing up for what he believes in.

*Breaking of dress codes
**Cheating with head scarves, etc

Cheating?

LOL. Secularism in schools does not mean that individuals have to give up their moral beliefs.

People should have the right to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't force it down other people's throats. For example, I wasn't allowed to cut up a pig's heart in biology, because there was one Jewish lad in our class. One. ONE! Surely it would have been easier to have sent the boy to another class for that time. However, his mother had made multiple formal complaints about it, actually praying for us at one point, so the school folded and we didn't get to learn. I suppose there was also the fact that be excluding the Jewish boy from our class, it would look as though the school was anti-jewish, which it sorta was being a hard-nosed anglican school. And full of Nazis.

Also that whole headscarf in France thing? Why are the muslim girls banned? Its like the French saying "we will prevent faith from entering our schools by burning it from the children's minds!" what they gonna think when they grow up? once again proving that france is more xenophobic than britain.

Though im for it, it doesn't matter what my position is. Im set in arguing it, theres no real reason trying to get me against it.

I feel bad for the kid. Kudos to him for standing up for what he believes in.



Cheating?

LOL. Secularism in schools does not mean that individuals have to give up their moral beliefs.

There have been instances of older sisters of muslim girls who wear headscarves cheating in midterms, etc, because the headscarf makes it hard to tell them apart. They are able to get into say a college midterm, take the test for their sibling, then leave.

Im just exploring certain options of argument.