NationStates Jolt Archive

A headline today 10/26/04

AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell has angered Taiwanese officials and lawmakers by making unusually strong comments denying that the island is an independent nation and suggesting Taiwan should unify with China.

So here is the question. Why is the US and the rest of the Democratic West writing off Taiwan, which is democratic, capitalist, and at this point wants to remain independent (and even more independent) from China and has no desire to be part of one China (under the rule of the PRC)

Our Founding Fathers would not be impressed I suspect.

It isn't. So far, Taiwan has remained independent from China in pretty much everything but name. While many Taiwanese want official independence, most people (there and here) are more or less content with things as they are.

Regretably, every time Taiwan puts independence on the ballot, or discusses it, the Chinese start having missile practice in the Taiwan straits (ie intimidation) and the subject is dropped.

Regretably, every time Taiwan puts independence on the ballot, or discusses it, the Chinese start having missile practice in the Taiwan straits (ie intimidation) and the subject is dropped.
I know. It's a terrible shame, especially given that China long ago forfieted any legitimate claim it might have to Taiwan (no, "We're stronger than you" is not a legitimate claim). But this is Communist China, and right and wrong have never stopped them before.

Communist China came into being by defeating the people that now reside on Taiwan. The only reason Taiwan has not completely joined China is that China doesn't really want to invade. What's wrong with trying to resolve something diplomatically rather than resorting to violence to reclaim what is rightfully yours?

I say, let 'em have Taiwan.


If China insists on militarily taking Taiwan and incorporating the island nation into it's communist/capitalist mixed economy then America should follow suit and take Cuba and Venezuela militarily and incorporate them into our capitalist/socialist mixed economy.

China is being invested in more than any other country, sending "peacekeeping" forces into Haiti, and becoming more and more of a world power. In the end, if our multilateral economic system under global capitalism isn't enough to deter us from going to war, then our "entangling alliances" will either bring us closer to war or force us to betray the trust of our "allies" in Taiwan.

We have to start looking out for our own interests and to maintain our dominance in our own sphere of incluence, we must continue to uphold the Monroe Doctrine...and since there is no moral argument for dominating everyone else's sphere of influence punishing them for doing the same, we should allow China to take Taiwan, which would give them access to new markets and resources and thus benefit their economy in the future.

Just think of all of the untapped markets in Cuba and Venezuela and the wealth it would bring to America, allowing us to keep our competitive edge with China and the rest of the world. Oil in Venezuela would solve our oil crisis by lowering our oil and gas prices and thus help boost our economy. Other countries would have to go through America to trade with Cuba and Venezeula, plus they would be buying much more oil from us too.

China gets stronger, America becomes twice (or three times) as strong and both reasert thier regional control. We also wouldn't have to worry as much about those pesky little Marxist rebels threatening our financial interests and we would have greater geopolitical influence in Latin America. Or...our announcement of our intentions (should China invade Taiwan) would mean more wars than the world wants to deal with and may bring more countries into persuading the Chinese to show restraint towards Taiwan, knowing what the American reaction would be and what these wars would mean for world politics and the precedent it sets for the future.

Besides, if it is worth risking WWIII (as some believe) along with dozens of American lives in a war that serves absolutely no national security or economic interests to America to save Taiwan, then shouldn't it be as equally worth it to fight a war in the name of reaserting our geopolitical dominance, maintaining our competitive economic edge around the globe, and expanding free-markets and global capitalism, which would inevitably benefit the lives of millions upon millions of Americans and Latin Americans?

The interest we have in Taiwan is mostly strategic. If we are looking for better strategic control in Asia, then we should stop acting like girls, allow the Chinese to militarily invade Taiwan thus giving us our perfect pretext for war and good reason for going all the way to China and implement "regime change" in the most powerful and influenial country in all of Asia. Just think of the benefits and prosperity it would bring to the global economy!

NOTE: This is actually something I wrote a litter earlier. Colin Powell isn't always in lock step with the President so I don't take his comments on anything too seriously. They're often just his opinion rather than actual government policy.

Communist China came into being by defeating the people that now reside on Taiwan. The only reason Taiwan has not completely joined China is that China doesn't really want to invade. What's wrong with trying to resolve something diplomatically rather than resorting to violence to reclaim what is rightfully yours?

Well part of that is the Taiwan forces are rather tough.

They can't missile it because there are a few western factories there.

Well part of that is the Taiwan forces are rather tough.

They can't missile it because there are a few western factories there.

Oh, I suppose in 1950, China was too afraid of the decimated Nationalist forces to invade? I'm pretty sure there weren't any western factories in Taiwan back then, either.

Oh, I suppose in 1950, China was too afraid of the decimated Nationalist forces to invade? I'm pretty sure there weren't any western factories in Taiwan back then, either.

Psst. Buddy. I am talking about todays forces.

the PRC hasn't invaded Taiwan because until recently the PRC had a very poor navy (huge, but out of date and hopelessly outclassed by the US Navy)

Also, from 1972 until 1991, the Chinese were worried more about the Soviet Union than the US, and Taiwan was set aside as an issue..

All of that has changed. The PRC is building up a modern military and shifting from huge and antiquated to large and modern.

Diplomacy only works if one side is willing to accept the wishes of the other and the basic issue here is either Taiwan is incorporated into the PRC, or Taiwan remains independent and ultimately gains full independence.

The middle ground probably will not last forever (middle ground being the current situation)

Oh, I suppose in 1950, China was too afraid of the decimated Nationalist forces to invade? I'm pretty sure there weren't any western factories in Taiwan back then, either.

check your Cold War history.... Taiwan was an official US ally until 1972, had a seat at the UN, and was under the protection of the US 7th Fleet and US nuclear umbrella...

hence, no PRC charge across the straits (not having a good navy and neglible amphibious lift was a factor stopping the PRC also)

UNderstand this: Nothing will get Taiwan invaded faster than western nations like the U.K. and U.S. acknowledging their independence.

By keeping the issue in diplomatic discussions, Taiwan gets to remain democratic and unbombed.

check your Cold War history.... Taiwan was an official US ally until 1972, had a seat at the UN, and was under the protection of the US 7th Fleet and US nuclear umbrella...

hence, no PRC charge across the straits (not having a good navy and neglible amphibious lift was a factor stopping the PRC also)

The US did little more than send money to them when they were fighting the Communist Chinese.

Also, a bad navy wasn't that huge of a problem, considering the Nationalist Chinese(now Taiwanese) navy had been destroyed by Japan in WW2.

The US did little more than send money to them when they were fighting the Communist Chinese.

Also, a bad navy wasn't that huge of a problem, considering the Nationalist Chinese(now Taiwanese) navy had been destroyed by Japan in WW2.

As I recall the Communists had no navy at all, and it is kind of hard to have the army swim all the way to Taiwan...

As I recall the Communists had no navy at all, and it is kind of hard to have the army swim all the way to Taiwan...

Yes, they did, indeed, have a navy. It may not have been very good, but they still had one.

We should recognize Taiwan as China's only legitimate government.

We should recognize Taiwan as China's only legitimate government.

Yea! They totally beat the communists in their civil war so th........oh......wait...........they got beaten down by the communists...........never mind.

Personally, Taiwan should be indapendant, as anyone in the world willing to be free should have the right too. China has well over a billion of people to tend with, with plenty of uncivilized land to it's west, mountanous, but still workable.

It isn't. So far, Taiwan has remained independent from China in pretty much everything but name. While many Taiwanese want official independence, most people (there and here) are more or less content with things as they are.
Actually, in the last elections the party which wants Taiwan to get independent lost quite many seats. I don't know if the people who voted for pro-china candidates really are against independency but just scared what China might do. I believe they just don't want any trouble.

I think it might be bit counter productive to go recognising the independence of Taiwan. That would probably only serve to antagonise China and make them more likely to invade. For the moment we should bide our time. The country's independent in practice so we're probably best leaving things alone for now. Also, Taiwan shouldn't be written off. It's suspected that they're aquiring an offensive missile capability, and if Taiwan could cause some havoc on the Chinese mainland (Such as blowing up that new dam of theirs) then the commies may see it as more trouble than it's worth to invade.