NationStates Jolt Archive

Today, whether you know it or not, is the evening of remembrance day for Rabin's assassination. His murderer, Igal Amir is sitting in jail, and I personally hope he stays there. If he ever gets out though, he'll be shot before he takes ten paces by left wingers, many of whom see him as the person who ruined Israels chance for peace with its neighbours. What were you doing when you heard about the killing? What was your reaction? What do you think people will remember him for 40 years from now? and what kind of PM do you think he was? This is not an Israel debate thread, this is for Rabin related stuff only.

BUMP!
Does anyone even know who he is?

I was living in Israel at the time....

From what i remember, people were spreading rumours in the school that a Palestinian did it, and they were going to take over our school.... Everybody was getting freaked out....

I also remember my class making a Card of condolence for his family, ...it had hearts and glitter, and Magen Davids.... And i couldn't write in hebrew, as i was an immigrant so i wrote mines in English... actually you know what, i did write something in hebrew...but i have no idea what it was, as my Morah showed me what to write down..

:cool: :D :p :D :cool:

seriously?
wow, the rumors go around quicker than the truth. After all, it wasn't a sniper from a far off buiding who managed to escape. It was a guy standing in the crowd with a pistol. I'd assume that Igal Amir would be quite offended at being called an palestinian, being right wing and all.

He probably would... And of course Rumours are faster then the truth... Just look at Jenin!

We massacred 500 people... pffft... when we only killed 50(?) and about 10 were civilians killed in crossfire.

But i do miss him...i think, But there are some areas of Israel we shouldn;t give up to Arab Control... like our Holy Sites for one. I mean Gaza is fine i guess.... but not all of the West Bank, and Especially Splitting Jerusalem in 2 again..

I think that the Gaza Strip should be returned, Yehuda and Shomron (West Bank to the rest of you) should, but without Jerusalem. I have no doubt that, had Rabin remained alive then we would have reached peace with all our neighbours and with the Palestinians.

BUMP!
Does anyone even know who he is?I didn't know the name of the killer, but I knew about Rabin's assassination. That was a terrible time in world history.

What about places like Hebron?

I mean surely the Cave of our Matriach/Patriachs are also important... the burial chamber of Abraham..and Sarah...

At least those places should be monitored by the Israeli Military....

Just the Holy Places is all i'm asking.... although if every we have a population boom, we should have the right to build settlements in "Palestinian" Territtory..... That seems fair to me.

Although on another note i could see why they might think he was an Arab, as he was of Yemeni Origin.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp....s his head on a wall :headbang:

Although on another note i could see why they might think he was an Arab, as he was of Yemeni Origin.
Not many arabs wear a Kippah. Besides, the arabs didn't have anything against him I don't think. After all, they benefited from him. The right hated him, Sharon and Netanyahu joined in the anti-Rabin protests. Protests like posters of Rabin's head on Himmlers shoulders, or Rabins portrait being burned. The extreme right aren't all that nice. Not that I know any but...

I didn't know the name of the killer, but I knew about Rabin's assassination. That was a terrible time in world history.
Indeed it was, the killer was Igal Amir. In Israel everyone knows his name, needless to say he's not a popular man.

What about places like Hebron?

I mean surely the Cave of our Matriach/Patriachs are also important... the burial chamber of Abraham..and Sarah...

At least those places should be monitored by the Israeli Military....

Just the Holy Places is all i'm asking.... although if every we have a population boom, we should have the right to build settlements in "Palestinian" Territtory..... That seems fair to me.
not to me, it would be like British people building towns in Wales, slightly unfair. I agree that those places are all important to Jews but for peace you must make sacrifices. If the palestinians were to let us in to visit the sites then I would have no problem with giving them away, every side needs to give something for peace.

Not many arabs wear a Kippah. Besides, the arabs didn't have anything against him I don't think. After all, they benefited from him. The right hated him, Sharon and Netanyahu joined in the anti-Rabin protests. Protests like posters of Rabin's head on Himmlers shoulders, or Rabins portrait being burned. The extreme right aren't all that nice. Not that I know any but...

I'm sure the Kippah was knocked off, after he shot him in a scuffle, so nobody knew it immediately... but proably not...it was most likely rumors.

not to me, it would be like British people building towns in Wales, slightly unfair. I agree that those places are all important to Jews but for peace you must make sacrifices. If the palestinians were to let us in to visit the sites then I would have no problem with giving them away, every side needs to give something for peace.

Eventually your borders aren't big enough for your people, so you are forced to do these things... although more likely, it will be immigration there, that will be annexed over time.

What if the Palestianians dont let us in our sites? What then? Smile and wait for civil war from even the people that want to visit them.

If the palestinians don't let us visit them then we keep the cities in order to keep the sites. We let them go to see the Al-Aqsa mosque, they should let us go and see our holy sites.

Aww, but didn'tcha hear? They can block us from our sites, but we can let them visit ours..... Then we would be called Nazi's who are oppressing them from religion...... and then the world would condemn us for the millionth time....

Anyways i g2g i'll be on later tonight.

Do you have MSN?

Bump!
remembrance day guys, RIP Rabin.

Where was I, on my way back from kikar malkhey yisrael (= kikar rabin now).

It is men like Rabin who prove that there is a difference between being anti-likud policy and anti-semitic.

Rabin was a great man and he will be fondly remembered.
Shalom to his family and all who mourn him, and may Israel one day follow his lead to peace.

Where was I, on my way back from kikar malkhey yisrael (= kikar rabin now).
Were you there? Or were you already on the way back when it happened?
NG, he was indeed a great man, in my opinion one of the best PMs Israel ever had.

Seriously, I was kinda expecting more than 3 opinions on the subject!

Were you there? Or were you already on the way back when it happened?
NG, he was indeed a great man, in my opinion one of the best PMs Israel ever had.

Yes I was there. The gathering was over and we didnt know it happened so took off back home and then some guy on the radio said rabin was shot.

I was home, at school in California. I didn't hear about it until some younger kids at school made posters and cards.

I only started learning about Rabin a few years ago. I think it's disgusting how the right-wing mounted an extremely effective dehumanization campaign against him, and how the rabbis who incited Amir essentially disavowed their actions, claiming they had no responsibility. Disgraceful.

The fact that this is happening again, with Sharon is very scary. Not to mention a tad ironic.

As far as a final negotiation:

http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/books/maps/settleme.htm

The Settlement Map shows four large settlement blocs and three other smaller blocs that create a clear continuum of Jewish land:

Greater Jerusalem: This includes Gush Etzion, the city of Ma’aleh Adumim, the local authorities of Givat Zeev, Betar Ilit, Efrat, and Har-Adar, and additional rural settlements belonging to the Benjamin regional council. There are a total of 20 settlements in Greater Jerusalem, containing a total population of 52,000.

West Samaria: This includes the local authorities of Ariel, Emmanuel, Karnei Shomron, Kedumim, Elkana, Oranit, Alfei Menashe, and additional rural settlements belonging to the Samaria Regional Council. West Samaria contains a total of 18 settlements, with a total population of 44,000.

West Benjamin: This includes the local authorities of Kiryat Sefer and Beit Arieh, and additional rural settlements belonging to the Benjamin Regional Council. There are a total of 12 settlements in West Benjamin, with a total population of 14,000.

The Jordan Valley and Judean Desert: This includes the Ma’aleh Efrayim local authority, and additional settlements belonging to the Jordan Valley, Megilot, Benjamin, and South Mt. Hebron Regional Councils. It consists of a total of 44 settlements with a total population of 17,000.

The Richan-Dotan Bloc: This lies in northern Samaria adjacent to the Green Line (by Wadi ‘Ara) and includes five settlements with a total population of 1,500.

The ‘Einav-Sal’it Bloc: This lies in northwest Samaria adjacent to the Green Line (near Netania) and includes four settlements with a population of 2,000.

The Eshkolot-Shim’a Bloc: This lies in southern Judea next to the Green Line (near Beer Sheva and ‘Arad) and includes five settlements with a population of 1,000.

Aside from these blocs there are 16 isolated settlements that are not included in typical settlement blocs, with a total population of 13,000. The largest of these are Hebron-Kiryat Arba (population 5,750) and Beit El (population 3,400).

Map: http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/books/maps/map4.jpg

The above numbers are from 1997. The current population is 245,000.

It's obvious that in any peace deal, the Jordan valley bloc will have to be evacuated. Ditto for most of the isolated settlements (I'd start with Kiryat Arba first, if I was in charge).

The smaller blocs have less people and are more or less adjacent to the Green Line, so there could potentially be some flexibility there. The Jerusalem settlements (some of them, anyway), could also potentially be included in a land swap.

I think, however, that the Western Samaria and Benjamin blocs would be a major stumbling block. If I was the Palestinians, I MIGHT be willing to negotiate over small settlement blocs near the Green Line, and SOME near Jerusalem. But I'm particularly troubled by the huge finger of West Samaria and Benjamin encroaching in Palestinian territory. I wouldn't agree to that, were I them. (Incidentally, those settlements have wound up on the Palestinian side in relation to the fence, if that's any indication of anything...)

Ha'aret pointed something out which is very interesting:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/454468.html

Some 74 percent of the 245,000 settlers live in areas which are due to remain under Israeli sovereignty in a final-status agreement, according to maps published under the various proposed peace arrangements. Some 35 percent (85,672) live in the Greater Jerusalem area and 21 percent (50,830) in the western Shomron. The remainder - 63,883 persons - live in areas which are supposedly slated to be left in Palestinian hands.

In principle, it would seem the Palestinians have already agreed to allow the Greater Jerusalem and Western Samaria blocs to be absorbed into Israel. It seems likely any eventual peace deal will follow this plan, probably with land swaps.

The only hope for a city like Hebron to remain accessible to Jews is for the Israelis to back off. Perhaps have it be guarded by an international force (UN?) or a mixed Israeli-Palestinian security detail. If Israel keeps control over the city, there will never be any chance of amicable relations between the Arab inhabitants and Jewish worshippers. It's already going to take decades to heal the hatred caused and perpetuated by the settlers living there.

I really honestly can't remember anything about that day, other than having seen the item on the news. The only thought to pass through my mind was that I wasn't at all surprised, though it was of course unfortunate. I still can't think of anything else to add...but my condolences.

I was at home, and I heard that only at the morning. I truly think that with him all was different, and we had peace with our neighbours.
this was one of the worst that happened in israel, and sadly I think that it could happen again.
what you think, is sharon life is safe?

Israel reaps what it sows. Look at Sharon. Leader of a commando unit in 1953 that killed sixty-nine Palestinian women and children in Kibya. Look at Shamir, leader of the Stern gang, which committed countless atrocities against Palestinians, just as Begin's Irgun did.

Israel is a terrorist state. It generates terrorism. Whatever happened to Rabin, in a roundabout way, was inevitable.

Israel reaps what it sows. Look at Sharon. Leader of a commando unit in 1953 that killed sixty-nine Palestinian women and children in Kibya. Look at Shamir, leader of the Stern gang, which committed countless atrocities against Palestinians, just as Begin's Irgun did.

Israel is a terrorist state. It generates terrorism. Whatever happened to Rabin, in a roundabout way, was inevitable.

Pseudo-political karma bullcrap. By your logic, any nation created through or which participates in warfare "earns" itself more violence. When are we going to see American WASPs get their comeuppance for what they did to the Native Americans? Not anytime soon, I'll bet.

How do your three examples prove Israel is a "terrorist state"? What do you mean by "it generates terrorism"? What does Amir have to do with Begin? With Shamir? With Sharon?

when Rabin was killed Israel sealed its fate in blood