the new gta
United White Front
26-10-2004, 03:35
just got it and right now all i can say is i hate bikes :mad: :headbang:
MunkeBrain
26-10-2004, 03:39
ummmm....Okay!
Nationalist Hungary
26-10-2004, 03:43
is there any way to select to play as another character or are you stuck with playing as that black guy?
United White Front
26-10-2004, 03:52
no you cant as far as i can tell
kinnda sucks
Kiwicrog
26-10-2004, 03:57
no you cant as far as i can tell
kinnda sucks
:eek:
Jeez, better not tell your white supremacist buddies that you play as a black guy in a video game
United White Front
26-10-2004, 04:07
:eek:
Jeez, better not tell your white supremacist buddies that you play as a black guy in a video game
yes but this make it easier to shoot the other blacks in the game
and its funny to watch the white cops beat the sh*t out of him
Crabcake Baba Ganoush
26-10-2004, 04:13
Wait, it's still the 25th here. It's not supposed to be officially released until the 26th. You purchased one of the stolen copies didn't you? I would report you to the police but they're looking for me too. So I guess you got lucky this time.
Crabcake Baba Ganoush
26-10-2004, 04:15
:eek:
Jeez, better not tell your white supremacist buddies that you play as a black guy in a video game
The black guy in question just happens to be a stereotypical gangster too so...
United White Front
26-10-2004, 04:16
Wait, it's still the 25th here. It's not supposed to be officially released until the 26th. You purchased one of the stolen copies didn't you? I would report you to the police but they're looking for me too. So I guess you got lucky this time.
no if you pre-orderd it it was released at 7pm today the 25
I'm seriously looking forward to buying this game. Although I am never sure when...
Krikaroo
26-10-2004, 04:18
is there any way to select to play as another character or are you stuck with playing as that black guy?
I don't mind having the black guy as the main character. Though if you want to change your looks a little bit you can get hair cuts, tatoos or new clothes...or so I've heard, it doesn't come out in Australia till this thursday.
Crabcake Baba Ganoush
26-10-2004, 04:19
no if you pre-orderd it it was released at 7pm today the 25
I pre ordered it and they said nothing about it being available the day before it's official release.
United White Front
26-10-2004, 04:44
I pre ordered it and they said nothing about it being available the day before it's official release.
from where
i got mine from gamestop
edit:i even got a automated call sunday night telling me it would be ready today
United White Front
26-10-2004, 05:15
The commercials rock.
havent seen it
if any one finds some cheat codes post the link here
gtg
Anyone find it funny that UWF is bummed he has to play as a black guy? :p
United White Front
26-10-2004, 10:38
no cheat coads yet?
Legless Pirates
26-10-2004, 10:42
Anyone find it funny that UWF is bummed he has to play as a black guy? :p
yes.... He probably won't do any missions and get him killed real fast over and over and over again
I heard there is some kind of code to turn the main guy white, called the Michael Jackson code or something...
Legless Pirates
26-10-2004, 10:55
I heard there is some kind of code to turn the main guy white, called the Michael Jackson code or something...
And then you'll be playing with a kiddie raper... at least he'll be white
And then you'll be playing with a kiddie raper... at least he'll be white
Just as long as we got our priorities right. ;)
Cannot think of a name
26-10-2004, 12:26
Is this like the first black main character in a game? About time, though loses points for him being a gangbanger (though to be fair that doesn't defirentiate(wow thats spelled wrong) him from other GTA main characters...). I have no problem with it.
What I do like so far-(my local game store, I believe, does not know that it's not supposed to just sell it as soon as it arrives. I wasn't going to tell them...)
My car is in it (VW Bus). Sweet. Already got one stashed in the garage.
Working out-apparently I have no problem dragging my little digital dude to the gym. Me, thats another story....
SWIMMING!!! Sweet crap that took long enough to get to, though I still died the first time chasing a dolphin.
The side character that looks like Eazy E and is always smokin' a blunt.
The level of customization. Tattoos, workin' out, clothes haircut. Nice.
Skill increases. You get better at the shit you do, though it's a little frustrating that my handbrake turns are spinning the car right now.
I stole a tractor. How cool is that? Well, I've already tapped the amount of thrill I'm going to get out of finding a tractor, but it's a big big game.
David Cross is one of the voices. Haven't run into him yet, but his character is named Zero. I wish they could have got Steve Buscimi(nope, thats not how you spell it...) for one of the roles....just a passing thought. Samual L. Jackson is a voice as well.
The radio is still funny.
Bikes are kinda frustrating. Bunny hops are cool.
Red Wales
26-10-2004, 12:39
Grand Theft Auto is a great games serise, but a Games character is a ganes character, it doesn't matter if they are black or white. Besides you could say it is racist because you are playing a black criminal.
Anyhow, it's not out here until Friday, but I am a huge fan of GTA and looking forward to this game. It sounds amazing
E B Guvegrra
26-10-2004, 12:45
Anyhow, it's not out here until Friday, but I am a huge fan of GTA and looking forward to this game. It sounds amazingAnd not out for PC until next year... :(
Cannot think of a name
26-10-2004, 12:50
The hand to hand fighting, I forgot that-WAY better. You can block and you learn new moves as your dude buffs up. I've spent half my time picking fist fights because now it's fun.
Kick ass.
Red Wales
26-10-2004, 13:46
And not out for PC until next year... :(
I hope the PC versions are better then GTA III and GTA Vice city are meant to be for the PC, I heard they were fairly poor. They could do a few things for the PC version that are exclusive to it.
what is the betting that the right wing press in Britain will moan and call for a ban? I might get a the Daily Mail just to laugh at their rantings over a video game! :)
Crabcake Baba Ganoush
26-10-2004, 15:53
from where
i got mine from gamestop
edit:i even got a automated call sunday night telling me it would be ready today
EB
But they never called me like they said they would when Vice City came out. So now I'm guessing that EB just isn't a good place to pre-order.
GTA is OK. I've played much more intelligent games with much better gameplay, and better storylines, and better graphics, and better music, and... well, better everything. GTA is overrated, but I'm sure it'll die down eventually, just like Carmageddon did.
Is this like the first black main character in a game?
No, there have been several. The first that comes to mind was a third person PC game where you played a black female cop. I think it was called 'Urban Assault', which is incidentally the same name as a Microsoft strategy/action game that is just as unknown to most 'gamers'.
Besides you could say it is racist because you are playing a black criminal.
I find it sad, pathetic and somewhat offensive to humanity that nobody said this about the white criminals you played in previous games, but somebody had to say it the first time you play a black criminal. Political correctness gone insane? I think so.
That game has nothing to do with police. It's a post apocalyptic real time strategy war game with first person elements.
http://www.microsoft.com/games/urbanassault/
I've only played the demo version but it's still a good game though.
I didn't say it did have anything to do with the police... I just said they share the same name...
Crabcake Baba Ganoush
26-10-2004, 16:13
I didn't say it did have anything to do with the police... I just said they share the same name...
I realized that and tired to "fix" what I said. You just beat me to it. :mp5:
Anyone find it funny that UWF is bummed he has to play as a black guy? :p
Hahaha, definitely.
Planta Genestae
26-10-2004, 16:20
Where I Live... We Entertain Ourselves With Sheep And A Vase!
E B Guvegrra
26-10-2004, 17:25
I hope the PC versions are better then GTA III and GTA Vice city are meant to be for the PC, I heard they were fairly poor. They could do a few things for the PC version that are exclusive to it.I've never played the Playstation versions of GTA, but I've heard that the (eventual) X-Box release of GTA (3+VC, double pack) was superior to that (but quality graphics, for one thing), and in comparison between X-Box and PC, I actually prefered the PC version. (Apart from anything else, you can mod it to high-heaven, if you want. I imagine you can mod the console versions, but not quite so simply.)
Maybe it depends on the PC being used, and the hardware spec (and not being unlucky enough to get a combination of components/software that aren't suited to one another). Whereas the consoles are consistent, and dedicated to the game, a good PC setup could compare very well with the console, if not exceed it.
Just my opinion/observations... I may not be right.
Crabcake Baba Ganoush
26-10-2004, 17:35
*wonders if there will be an Area 51 style military base out in the middle of nowhere*
United White Front
26-10-2004, 18:00
ok in vice city your endurence carried over if you died
dose it do that here
ps i realy realy hate bikes
Legless Pirates
26-10-2004, 18:01
ok in vice city your endurence carried over if you died
dose it do that here
ps i realy realy hate bikes
Bikes rule
United White Front
26-10-2004, 18:02
well not when theres some one pulling a drive by on you
Legless Pirates
26-10-2004, 18:03
well not when theres some one pulling a drive by on you
Then all vehicles aren't cool. except tanks
United White Front
26-10-2004, 18:04
Then all vehicles aren't cool. except tanks
well i need that code
Cannot think of a name
26-10-2004, 18:15
GTA is OK. I've played much more intelligent games with much better gameplay, and better storylines, and better graphics, and better music, and... well, better everything. GTA is overrated, but I'm sure it'll die down eventually, just like Carmageddon did.
No, there have been several. The first that comes to mind was a third person PC game where you played a black female cop. I think it was called 'Urban Assault', which is incidentally the same name as a Microsoft strategy/action game that is just as unknown to most 'gamers'.
I find it sad, pathetic and somewhat offensive to humanity that nobody said this about the white criminals you played in previous games, but somebody had to say it the first time you play a black criminal. Political correctness gone insane? I think so.
Being overrated is overrated. Comparing the GTA phenomonenon to Carmegadon? Yeah......uh huh.....
But the most important note-If you think no one said anything about playing a criminal as a character when he was white, then you really, I mean REALLY just weren't paying attention.
Dogerton
26-10-2004, 18:16
You have the new gta & you bitch!? Damn you, over ere it aint out till 29th!
P.S. the previous GTA's were anti-Italian and should be banned.
Cannot think of a name
26-10-2004, 18:18
well not when theres some one pulling a drive by on you
That mission sucks. Why does it insist you stay on the bike? The second that happened the first time around I headed straight for the nearest car. How 'gangsta' are we runnin' away on Schwinns?
United White Front
26-10-2004, 18:26
Being overrated is overrated. Comparing the GTA phenomonenon to Carmegadon? Yeah......uh huh.....
But the most important note-If you think no one said anything about playing a criminal as a character when he was white, then you really, I mean REALLY just weren't paying attention.
i know people complained
espicaly about the coments directed at the hations(sp) in the game
United White Front
26-10-2004, 18:26
That mission sucks. Why does it insist you stay on the bike? The second that happened the first time around I headed straight for the nearest car. How 'gangsta' are we runnin' away on Schwinns?
same here
and its hard to follow the little blue blip
Meh, Vice City was alright, but it was really repeditive and boring after a few minutes.
This new one doesn't even have the awesome radio stations playing old school hip hop and rock.
same here
and its hard to follow the little blue blip
Are you STUCK on that mission? Jebus. You sure you shouldn't be playing Super Mario instead, son?
GTA 4 will be out fairly soon as well, I'm looking forward to that. The series shows absolutely no sign of dying. Officer Tenpenny from San Andreas is voiced by Samuel L Jackson, btw. Also Madd Dogg is voiced by Ice T, and an english bloke I haven't encountered yet is voiced by the great Shaun Ryder. I wonder what tricks they're going to pull out of the bag for the next one?
Remembering GTA3, I know I'm not the only person who didn't finish it because it was so buggy it just became unplayable after a while, and that's a damn shame because it was an excellent game that happened to be technically flawed. There's none of these flaws in San Andreas, and even Vice City was a huge leap forward compared to GTA3.
The amount of data crammed into San Andreas is phenomenal, and I have no idea how it all fits on a single dual-layer DVD. I suspect Rockstar must have been down at the crossroads at midnight. "Dear Satan..."
United White Front
26-10-2004, 21:17
any one done a brake in yet
i read in a mag you could some how
BoomChakalaka
26-10-2004, 21:26
Break-ins are fun. You can't start those until after the first or second mission with Ryder.
So far the only thing I don't like is that you can't go anywhere else in the city without getting shot by rival gang members. That was what bothered me the most about GTA III as well. I'd like to be able to wander around for a bit without having to worry about 5 guys running after me with uzis.
Other than that it's a blast. When your pistol skill gets high enough you can have one in each hand. :gundge:
Break-ins are fun. You can't start those until after the first or second mission with Ryder.
So far the only thing I don't like is that you can't go anywhere else in the city without getting shot by rival gang members. That was what bothered me the most about GTA III as well. I'd like to be able to wander around for a bit without having to worry about 5 guys running after me with uzis.
Other than that it's a blast. When your pistol skill gets high enough you can have one in each hand. :gundge:
You! Tell me what kind of van you need for a break-in and where to find one.
I have tried Mules and Boxvilles to no avail, and am becoming distressed. In return, I will tell you that if you go up into the Vinewood and other similar rich people areas and steal a vintage style, open-top car called a Broadway, you can do Pimping missions.
Now help me re break-ins. TIA.
Edit: Also, later on you will start to take control of various areas of the map from the Ballas and the Vagos. Their areas will be marked in different colours to yours, and it helps you make key areas safer to drive through. Like the Union Station area, where those pink fools kept shooting at my lovely low-rider. Not anymore! Hah! How do you like having your area taken over, Ballas fools?
Tell me! Tell me now!
TPLAC,
Really, really wants to break into somebody's house
United White Front
26-10-2004, 22:33
where will you end up after you split up on bikes
United White Front
27-10-2004, 00:35
ok i'm up to the chicken drive through mission
when do i get brake in's
And then you'll be playing with a kiddie raper... at least he'll be white
Yeah, well, currently you're a gangster who goes around killing cops and old ladies with an uzi, so...
United White Front
27-10-2004, 01:06
and mj ain't white
You have the new gta & you bitch!? Damn you, over ere it aint out till 29th!
P.S. the previous GTA's were anti-Italian and should be banned.
Aw, comeon! Tony Cipriani was the best!
So far the only thing I don't like is that you can't go anywhere else in the city without getting shot by rival gang members. That was what bothered me the most about GTA III as well. I'd like to be able to wander around for a bit without having to worry about 5 guys running after me with uzis.
Damn, that's really annoying. Maybe by the end you can make it happen less...?
and mj ain't white
Yeah, but is he guilty?
New Fubaria
27-10-2004, 01:22
Dunno if this has been answered already, but are Rockstar finally gonna pull their fingers out and introduce multi-player in this version?
I was a huge fan of GTA1 and GTA2 for the fact that we used to have multiplayer LAN fragfests - I've been hanging to do the same in a 3D environment.
Screw consoles, think about the PC market for a change...
United White Front
27-10-2004, 01:40
there is a muti section in this one
Jumbania
27-10-2004, 02:26
is there any way to select to play as another character or are you stuck with playing as that black guy?
GTA3 is an easy game to mod. With a little tweaking, you can play as anyone in the game. If you see them out and about, you can play as that person. Hell, I even played Vice City as Candy Suxxx just for laughs.
Fear not, patches and mods will be out within days of the release.
PS: I suppose they want another $50 for nothing more than a map change and a few new cars and characters?
United White Front
27-10-2004, 03:49
well i'm doing drive by mission now and it seems these cars dont last as long
Cannot think of a name
27-10-2004, 03:59
I don't like that the hospital is in the middle of enemy territory. I keep getting sidetracked running over people who shoot at me, then having to shoot the cops who come to stop me from robbing the people I ran over, then running from the more cops that come.
I tried to save Smokey biotch when I had taken an Uzi, pistol and shotgun from various people but hadn't actually healed from the damage I took getting all that crap so I got gunned down.
On the plus side, I'm totally ripped. My dude is pretty f'n buff. I got to start working on my stamina, but I hate the stationary bike almost as much as I hate the treadmill.
I'm lookin' forward to the two-gun action. I wasted a great deal of time uping my motorcycle skill in the Los Santos river. I like the tail scraping wheelies.
I found a viper once but I don't remember how I got there. Some punks blew up my V-Dub, gotz to go find me a new one.
Anyone know how long till you get to SF, that's what I'm looking forward to.
United White Front
27-10-2004, 04:04
On the plus side, I'm totally ripped. My dude is pretty f'n buff. I got to start working on my stamina, but I hate the stationary bike almost as much as I hate the treadmill.
well use the bmx bike and ride all over
i figured out if you eat like 5 or 6 $10 junk food meals your fat will build but as you get hungry it burns so thats less trips to the food joints
As you run, your fat goes down. If you avoid eating as much as you can and just use your save points to bring your health back up, you can avoid being fat in the first place. Be warned, if you build yourself up too much at the gym, it becomes difficult to run when you need to.
My guy isn't particularly big in the muscle area, but he can run like the wind which is bloody useful when it comes to taking over an area during a gang war.
I've heard tell that the game adjusts it's difficulty to match your skill levels, so if you spend hours building your skills and then go on to do missions, you'll find them much more difficult to do.
Also, has anybody discovered what the immediate benefit of spray painting your Grove Street tag everywhere is? It obviously doesn't work in the same way as the good old hidden packages.
PS: The lowrider meet bouncing missions are still the best ones, and you can play pool with two players in Ten Green Bottles just along the road from your house. When you meet Denise, who will become your girlfriend, you can go to her house and pick her up to start a two-player havoc mission.
Cannot think of a name
27-10-2004, 12:02
Sweet on the two player missions.
I took a knife from a prostitute (I needed a weapon and everyone else around me was in green. Gotta keep it real) and discovered that when you come behind fools and hit R1 you start stalking them, then when you hit Triangle or Circle you stab them through the throat killing them instantly.
To whoever could burgle(nope, but I don't care...) you need the UPS looking van and you can only do it between 20 and 600 at night. It's not as cool as you might imagine, but still kinda cool.
I'm maxed on muscle and almost maxed on stamina. I'm also totally illustrated. I wish I could find the barber again, because my haircut kinda sux.
I was hoping that dude could modify any car you brought him, cause I wanted a pimped out El Camino, for some reason. I don't know how I feel about that 'Parapa the Rappa'/'Dance Dance Revolution' low rider compotition.
Why couldn't this game have come out at least on the weekend so if I, say-stayed up till 4 frickin' am I wouldn't be torqued for the day. Bastards....
Being overrated is overrated. Comparing the GTA phenomonenon to Carmegadon? Yeah......uh huh.....
Yes. GTA is popular because it is shocking. You're a criminal, killing people for money, running the local mafia in a couple of them. When the shock becomes old hat, it will be left with a sub-standard plot and gameplay. Carmageddon was popular because it was shocking. You run over people on purpose to score points. When that shock became old hat, it was left with a sub-standard plot and gameplay... nah, I must be an idiot to see a reason to compare the two :rolleyes:
But the most important note-If you think no one said anything about playing a criminal as a character when he was white, then you really, I mean REALLY just weren't paying attention.
Sure, a bunch of people complained. But in relation to the central character being a criminal... did one person think it was racist towards whites because of that? Please, read and understand what I'm saying next time.
Sweet on the two player missions.
I took a knife from a prostitute (I needed a weapon and everyone else around me was in green. Gotta keep it real) and discovered that when you come behind fools and hit R1 you start stalking them, then when you hit Triangle or Circle you stab them through the throat killing them instantly.
To whoever could burgle(nope, but I don't care...) you need the UPS looking van and you can only do it between 20 and 600 at night. It's not as cool as you might imagine, but still kinda cool.
I'm maxed on muscle and almost maxed on stamina. I'm also totally illustrated. I wish I could find the barber again, because my haircut kinda sux.
I was hoping that dude could modify any car you brought him, cause I wanted a pimped out El Camino, for some reason. I don't know how I feel about that 'Parapa the Rappa'/'Dance Dance Revolution' low rider compotition.
Why couldn't this game have come out at least on the weekend so if I, say-stayed up till 4 frickin' am I wouldn't be torqued for the day. Bastards....
Cheers for the van thing (finally! I just wish I could try it, just once! Even it is rubbish after your first go)
You can mod other cars in a garage to the north of downtown Los Santos. It's right next door to a spray shop - you can only mod low riders at the garage in willowfield, and you can only mod other cars at the one in the North.
You get to do a stalking mission where you need to use those stealth kills, it's got an interesting but very basic Thief-style component to it.
You can get different haircuts at different barbers - the ones in the central city are all rubbish, blonde afros and other such nonsense which is just wrong. The barber nearest Grove Street probably has the most sensible cuts.
Cannot think of a name
27-10-2004, 12:16
Yes. GTA is popular because it is shocking. You're a criminal, killing people for money, running the local mafia in a couple of them. When the shock becomes old hat, it will be left with a sub-standard plot and gameplay. Carmageddon was popular because it was shocking. You run over people on purpose to score points. When that shock became old hat, it was left with a sub-standard plot and gameplay... nah, I must be an idiot to see a reason to compare the two :rolleyes:
Sure, a bunch of people complained. But in relation to the central character being a criminal... did one person think it was racist towards whites because of that? Please, read and understand what I'm saying next time.
Weak on both counts.
First-yes, GTAs star will fade someday. This prediction hardly makes you Kresgin, how many people still have Pac-Man Fever? This, however, is the 5th installment of GTA. The first two got by on "Ooooh, you're a bad dude" III and on have gotten by on the range of things you can do and the free roaming principle, that has more or less spawned a new type. By that standard you'd be better off comparing it to Doom. But Doom's star faded too, so you get a gold star for effort. Carmeggedon did not even merit a phenom, after all it was out the same time as the much better Twisted Metal, which I believe outlasted Carmegedon. So I re-iterate, GTA =/= Carmegedon.
The second comment, while I don't consider the game racist for having the main character to be black, the fact that the complaint was not that the main character in the earlier games wasn't that he was a white criminal is immaterial. The dominant culture is assumed. It's the nature of the discourse. No one complains about representations of the dominant, because there are plenty of representations out there. When there is a minority or underrepresented culture or identity, each representation that actually does occour by the nature of their rarity carries much more weight, especially if that representation is the only one. If there are 1000 white dudes running around in video games, one of them being a bastard doesn't really effect the representation of the whole, in fact it serves to deepen the representation of three dimensionality in character. If there is one black dude as a character, and that character is a stereotypical, cartoonish even, gangsta criminal, that would mean that 100% of the representation of that group is bastards. Do you see how that is different?
Representation is a tricky issue, despite what Colin Quinn would have you believe.
Haken Rider
27-10-2004, 13:37
Sweet on the two player missions.
Yes, how about that? You can only play it with some missions???
Yes, how about that? You can only play it with some missions???
I've only seen three so far - one is at Denise's house, one is in the middle of the city, somewhere near either the police station or the hospital (it's a Rampage, btw), and one that's away out in the country in Dillimore, I think - I'm not sure what that one is.
Playing pool in Ten Green Bottles can be two player or one player vs the CPU, but it's not really a mission, as such. You can bet a grand on it though, so if you're good at pool it's a bloody good money maker.
United White Front
27-10-2004, 15:57
any tips on the drive bys after you get your 'colors'
fast slow what
any tips on the drive bys after you get your 'colors'
fast slow what
Your cars don't last like they used to, so breeze past the Ballas at a moderate pace, keep driving until you're out of the line of fire and then double back. Just keep driving towards them and then away. It also helps to run them over if they're standing in the right sort of place for it.
United White Front
27-10-2004, 16:10
Your cars don't last like they used to, so breeze past the Ballas at a moderate pace, keep driving until you're out of the line of fire and then double back. Just keep driving towards them and then away. It also helps to run them over if they're standing in the right sort of place for it.
thanks i might go try that i a few
any thing good to expect after this mission
Andaluciae
27-10-2004, 16:11
I'm seriously looking forward to buying this game. Although I am never sure when...
Wait till the weekend dude, then there will most definitely be copies in!
thanks i might go try that i a few
any thing good to expect after this mission
You get a girlfriend who won't go away and keeps phoning you at the most inopportune moments. Oh, and a shoot out with a big gang of Russians, which incorporates the scene from the Terminator film with the lorry going over the bridge after the motorbike. It's tricky, though.
United White Front
27-10-2004, 16:15
lorry??
i know i should know this but it was a long niight
Haken Rider
27-10-2004, 16:21
I've only seen three so far - one is at Denise's house, one is in the middle of the city, somewhere near either the police station or the hospital (it's a Rampage, btw), and one that's away out in the country in Dillimore, I think - I'm not sure what that one is.
Playing pool in Ten Green Bottles can be two player or one player vs the CPU, but it's not really a mission, as such. You can bet a grand on it though, so if you're good at pool it's a bloody good money maker.
Thanks!
I only like games I can play with my brother.
United White Front
27-10-2004, 16:24
Brit-speak for truck.
ok i was think it was for cab
Thanks!
I only like games I can play with my brother.
Bear in mind I've only seen a fraction of the game so far - there'll be loads more tucked away somewhere. The beauty of all the GTA games is that they can be so completely pointless story-wise that three or four people can all sit down in front of it and just do things without worrying about levels or stories or even missions. It's a party-friendly game. If gaming in a party is your thing, of course. :D
United White Front
27-10-2004, 16:27
always