NationStates Jolt Archive

Who are they? Please nominate someone from both the right and the left. I nominate the two people in my signature.

MunkeBrain
MKULTRA


Honourable mentions
7eventeen
Eutrusca
Gymoor
Chess Squares

Could MKULTRA = Munkiebrain?

Could MKULTRA = Munkiebrain?
LOL
It's a conspiracy!!!
I'd have to agree with the MunkeBrain and MKULTRA nominations though

Biff Pileon for the right
Letila for the left

Me for most supreme educated. :D

Who are they? Please nominate someone from both the right and the left. I nominate the two people in my signature.

MunkeBrain
MKULTRA


Honourable mentions
7eventeen
Eutrusca
Gymoor
Chess Squares

I'm rather upset by my company there. Do you honestly see me as that partisan (therefore, to some extent, using fuzzy logic in order to support my preconceptions.)

MKULTRA is just stating the truth *shrug*
Munkebrain is making up shit to smear people. MKULTRA is a hero. Munkebrain is a parrot.

Does United White Front count as a partisan from the right?

MKULTRA is just stating the truth *shrug*
Munkebrain is making up shit to smear people. MKULTRA is a hero. Munkebrain is a parrot.
MKULTRA is a conspiracy theorist, Munkebrain just likes to start shit and get people pissed off.

Biff Pileon for the right
Letila for the left

Me for most supreme educated. :D
I haven't made up my mind about Biff Pileon completely yet. I think he's a pretty intelligent guy who truly believes what he says. I know almost nothing about Letila.

letila is an anarchist who basically isn't far from being an anarcho-communist

I agree with all of it, except Gymoor. Honestly, I don't see him as being THAT blindly partisan ;)

not me???why, I am shocked and offended!

letila is an anarchist who basically isn't far from being an anarcho-communist
I'm pretty sure he is an anarcho-communist.

I agree with all of it, except Gymoor. Honestly, I don't see him as being THAT blindly partisan ;)

hmmph, you damn me with faint praise. :D

I haven't made up my mind about Biff Pileon completely yet. I think he's a pretty intelligent guy who truly believes what he says. I know almost nothing about Letila.

Well, I like Biff ... seems a good person ... just a little whacky on the anti-Kerry propoganda, which is partisan.

Letila is very left ... not nearly as left as me, but I try not to discuss politics, so I didn't nominate myself.

Er ... well ... except for what's in my sig ....

What?!?!? im not on there???

I guess i need to piss off a few more democrats :D

It was ME who proposed a rounding up and forceful reeducation of the conservatives!

It was I who suggested crucifixion for Dick Cheney!!

It was I who said Anne Coulter needed to be burned alive!

It was I wo suggested the possibility of the christian coalition being a neo-nazi movement!

It is I who beleives that George Bush is Beezelbub, lord of the flies!

Its all for nothing (whimpers)

How about Tenete Traditiones?

It was ME who proposed a rounding up and forceful reeducation of the conservatives!

It was I who suggested crucifixion for Dick Cheney!!

It was I who said Anne Coulter needed to be burned alive!

It was I wo suggested the possibility of the christian coalition being a neo-nazi movement!

It is I who beleives that George Bush is Beezelbub, lord of the flies!

Its all for nothing (whimpers)

WEll, uhh.... it was my idea to round up all the Liberals and send them to Somalia...

Of course, if they went to Somalia they'd keep charging the opposing warlords as "Having used Ralph Nader to disrupt the ballot and that their warolord shouldnt be there in the first place!" and they'd screw it up even MORE.

Maybe i should ship em to france instead, Somalia has suffered enough already...

WEll, uhh.... it was my idea to round up all the Liberals and send them to Somalia...

Of course, if they went to Somalia they'd keep charging the opposing warlords as "Having used Ralph Nader to disrupt the ballot and that their warolord shouldnt be there in the first place!" and they'd screw it up even MORE.

Maybe i should ship em to france instead, Somalia has suffered enough already...
tsktsk...typical conservative. Wishing to harm his fellow man instead of help him.

tsktsk...typical conservative. Wishing to harm his fellow man instead of help him.

tsk tsk, typical Liberal.

Wearing suspenders while masturbating to pictures of Stalin...

tsk tsk, typical Liberal.

Wearing suspenders while masturbating to pictures of Stalin...
and again with the right-winging. Personal attacks and obvious mudslinging instead of at least semi-plausible arguments.

and again with the right-winging. Personal attacks and obvious mudslinging instead of at least semi-plausible arguments.

See, typical liberalism! He's trying to bring our minds of the IMPORTANT topic! He's trying to save face from something he knows is true!

All right already! I nominate you both.

See, typical liberalism! He's trying to bring our minds of the IMPORTANT topic! He's trying to save face from something he knows is true!

Come on, the whole thing is ridiculous, I would never wear suspenders! I'm 15! why would my pants up?
as for the whole stalin thing...thats just nasty. The man was ugly like hell, and even if not...to a black & white pic?

All right already! I nominate you both.
horay!

All right already! I nominate you both.

YYYYYAAAAAAAYYYY!!!!

Come on, the whole thing is ridiculous, I would never wear suspenders! I'm 15! why would my pants up?
as for the whole stalin thing...thats just nasty. The man was ugly like hell, and even if not...to a black & white pic?

Lol, i was just joking.

I still...dislike...liberals alot tho. :D

YYYYYAAAAAAAYYYY!!!!



Lol, i was just joking.

I still...dislike...liberals alot tho. :D


dont worrry..the camps will fix that...
mwahahahaha

dont worrry..the camps will fix that...
mwahahahaha

Pfft, the camps? Why boy, your going to have your hands full working as slaves on a French Vineyard where they add window-washer fluid to imporve the taste ;)

Pfft, the camps? Why boy, your going to have your hands full working as slaves on a French Vineyard where they add window-washer fluid to imporve the taste ;)
Mmmmm.....Windex..... ;)

Mmmmm.....Windex..... ;)

Windex? The french wouldnt buy such expensive window-washers! They'd buy Pierre Window Washing Fluid! Made from 90% Sweat of old French hags armpits and 10% Arsenic!

Mmmmm.....Windex..... ;)
It can cure anything! every word comes from greek!

Windex? The french wouldnt buy such expensive window-washers! They'd buy Pierre Window Washing Fluid! Made from 90% Sweat of old French hags armpits and 10% Arsenic!
mmm..old french hags...

I still dont get what it is with american rightwingers and the french. Will you please explain the grudge? ( awful, movie, by the way)

It can cure anything! every word comes from greek!

lol!

If MKULTRA is The Red Arrow (not unlikely,) i approve of his placement. Otherwise, Letila < MKULTRA

I wish to nominate Gymoor, Spoffin, and Gigatron for honorable mentions.

EDIT: You already got Gymoor, sorry, my bad.

If MKULTRA is The Red Arrow (not unlikely,) i approve of his placement. Otherwise, Letila < MKULTRA

I wish to nominate Gymoor, Spoffin, and Gigatron for honorable mentions.

EDIT: You already got Gymoor, sorry, my bad.
and not me...


@#$#%$#$#%$#@#$#$# YOUR MOM!!!

mmm..old french hags...

I still dont get what it is with american rightwingers and the french. Will you please explain the grudge? ( awful, movie, by the way)

WEll, ive personally always hated france and it had NOTHING to do with being a right-winger, but heres (probably)why,

1. France doesnt let us use their airspace.

2. France Vetoed the Iraq war(major MAJOR reason)

3. France hasn't won a wat without Americas help in 50 bagillion years.

4. The French got us into Vietnam(seriously. It was origionaly French Indochine and we origionally went there to keep the frenchies in power. I went down-hill from there....)

and thats all i can think of right now...

It was ME who proposed a rounding up and forceful reeducation of the conservatives!

It was I who suggested crucifixion for Dick Cheney!!

It was I who said Anne Coulter needed to be burned alive!

It was I wo suggested the possibility of the christian coalition being a neo-nazi movement!

It is I who beleives that George Bush is Beezelbub, lord of the flies!

Its all for nothing (whimpers)
There, there .....
*consoles with a Nutty Irishman latte*

If MKULTRA is The Red Arrow (not unlikely,) i approve of his placement. Otherwise, Letila < MKULTRA

I wish to nominate Gymoor, Spoffin, and Gigatron for honorable mentions.

EDIT: You already got Gymoor, sorry, my bad.

Hhmmmm, i guess i need to piss off MORE Democrats!

WEll, ive personally always hated france and it had NOTHING to do with being a right-winger, but heres (probably)why,

1. France doesnt let us use their airspace.

2. France Vetoed the Iraq war(major MAJOR reason)

3. France hasn't won a way without Americas help in 50 bagillion years.

4. The French got us into Vietname(seriously. It was origionaly French Indochine and we origionally went there to keep the frenchies in power. I went down-hill from there....)

and thats all i can think of right now...


the french were also largely resposible for your independence. France was, in my opinion, a real friend of America. They tried to prevent you from making a terrible mistake, and you gave them a bukkake with the help of Spain, the UK and, of course, Japan.

as for the war in "50 bagillion years" well... they were pretty strong pre and post french revolution, less than 500 years ago...

I would liek to nominate Decisive Action as the craziest right-winger ever. Anne coulter with a penis, people!!

If MKULTRA is The Red Arrow (not unlikely,) i approve of his placement. Otherwise, Letila < MKULTRA

I wish to nominate Gymoor, Spoffin, and Gigatron for honorable mentions.

EDIT: You already got Gymoor, sorry, my bad.

Now now, just because I outsmart you doesn't mean I'm partisan. :D

Where's Chuck Cesil? He made some real sense, he did.

Bukkake? Yaay!!! Bring on the meat!
More graphic mental images!
My nomination other than others posted, if i may ....
Stephistan, Incertonia, and
-on the other side-
TheOneRule
I can't remember too many more. Maybe later.

the french were also largely resposible for your independence. France was, in my opinion, a real friend of America. They tried to prevent you from making a terrible mistake, and you gave them a bukkake with the help of Spain, the UK and, of course, Japan.

as for the war in "50 bagillion years" well... they were pretty strong pre and post french revolution, less than 500 years ago...

Yes, but that was over 220 years ago! I agree, the french helped us THEN, but once again, that was 220 years ago.

2. Iraq wasnt a terrible mistake.

3. WEll, EXCUSE me, but they lost the Napoleanic wars, the Invasion of MExico, teh Franco-prussian war, they woulda lost WWI without the U.S. and Britain, WWII without the U.S. and Britain, they dragged us into vietnam so they could run away, they did very little in IRaq, and they only came into Afghanistan after all teh major fighting had ended.

If MKULTRA is The Red Arrow (not unlikely,) i approve of his placement. Otherwise, Letila < MKULTRA

I wish to nominate Gymoor, Spoffin, and Gigatron for honorable mentions.

EDIT: You already got Gymoor, sorry, my bad.
I find that Gigatron is more of an extreme Anti-American than an extreme left-winger. He's both really, but when the two conflict, it seems to me, at least, that the former wins out over the latter.

Its a lot easier to find extreamly leftist posters like MKULTRA beacuse theydont care if people agree with them. I think some of the morerightest posters actually want to convince people (even though its hopeless). I agree with most of the suggestions.

Chess Squares, with a complete l;ack of logic thrown in to round out his partisanship.

Yes, but that was over 220 years ago! I agree, the french helped us THEN, but once again, that was 220 years ago.

2. Iraq wasnt a terrible mistake.

3. WEll, EXCUSE me, but they lost the Napoleanic wars, the Invasion of MExico, teh Franco-prussian war, they woulda lost WWI without the U.S. and Britain, WWII without the U.S. and Britain, they dragged us into vietnam so they could run away, they did very little in IRaq, and they only came into Afghanistan after all teh major fighting had ended.


so they dont like war, and thus suck at. Like myself in calculus.

and Iraq WAS a mistake, but its also the democrats fault * spits on kerry* for not allwoing drilling oil in Alaska.
What the hell are you gonna do with the damn state anyway!

Yes, but that was over 220 years ago! I agree, the french helped us THEN, but once again, that was 220 years ago.
You forgot the time when Gaul lost to the Romans,the Americans nevr lost a battle against the Romans. Of course Germany is our friend. Lets see, the Hessians against us in the Revolution. And they started both world wars, but no we hate our ally the French. Lets not hate the country that brought us into the 2 world wars and also was agaisnt Iraq. Of course we love Italy. Italy who switched sides durring WW1. No that is ok but FRANCE is our enemy.

You forgot the time when Gaul lost to the Romans,the Americans nevr lost a battle against the Romans. Of course Germany is our friend. Lets see, the Hessians against us in the Revolution. And they started both world wars, but no we hate our ally the French. Lets not hate the country that brought us into the 2 world wars and also was agaisnt Iraq. Of course we love Italy. Italy who switched sides durring WW1. No that is ok but FRANCE is our enemy.

Lol, WTF! That was the most confusing and off topic post ive ever read! Makes no sense at ALL!

ME LIKEY!!!

MKULTRA is just stating the truth *shrug*
Munkebrain is making up shit to smear people. MKULTRA is a hero. Munkebrain is a parrot.
Im no hero I just post the Truth that others speak and try to do the job that the hijacked American media SHOULD be doing but isnt. Its amazing tho how just telling the Truth is such a radical act that brings out such strong reactions--human responce to radical Truth telling hasnt evolved that much since the crucifixion of Christ

You forgot the time when Gaul lost to the Romans,the Americans nevr lost a battle against the Romans. Of course Germany is our friend. Lets see, the Hessians against us in the Revolution. And they started both world wars, but no we hate our ally the French. Lets not hate the country that brought us into the 2 world wars and also was agaisnt Iraq. Of course we love Italy. Italy who switched sides durring WW1. No that is ok but FRANCE is our enemy.

Don't forget the Bulgarians

I'm rather upset by my company there. Do you honestly see me as that partisan (therefore, to some extent, using fuzzy logic in order to support my preconceptions.)
when have I ever used fuzzy logic? :gundge:

Of course we love Italy. Italy who switched sides durring WW1. No that is ok but FRANCE is our enemy.

Did they?

Im no hero I just post the Truth that others speak and try to do the job that the hijacked American media SHOULD be doing but isnt. Its amazing tho how just telling the Truth is such a radical act that brings out such strong reactions--human responce to radical Truth telling hasnt evolved that much since the crucifixion of Christ

Hey, all I do is link to sites like CSPAN, Factcheck.org, CNN and the like. I've never one referenced Democracy Now! or Moveon.org. Sigh. And yet I am assailed on all sides.

MKULTRA is a conspiracy theorist, Munkebrain just likes to start shit and get people pissed off.
we all should be conspiracy theorists cause those people never stop thinking ;)

Hey, all I do is link to sites like CSPAN, Factcheck.org, CNN and the like. I've never one referenced Democracy Now! or Moveon.org. Sigh. And yet I am assailed on all sides.
WE AT MOVEON ARE AT LEAST SOMEWHAT DESERVING OF RESPCT AND CREDIBILITY!! WE ARE NOT WACKOS!!

I agree with all of it, except Gymoor. Honestly, I don't see him as being THAT blindly partisan ;)
Im not blindly partisan--Ive attacked Clintons sellouts before

WE AT MOVEON ARE AT LEAST SOMEWHAT DESERVING OF RESPCT AND CREDIBILITY!! WE ARE NOT WACKOS!!

Uhhh huh...sssuuuuuurrrrrreeeee.

Of course, the Wackos at Swift Boat Vets for truth are wackos too! If only all thos extra groups would go away, this would be a MUCH cleaner election...

Im no hero I just post the Truth that others speak and try to do the job that the hijacked American media SHOULD be doing but isnt. Its amazing tho how just telling the Truth is such a radical act that brings out such strong reactions--human responce to radical Truth telling hasnt evolved that much since the crucifixion of Christ
but you are a hero!! please, wont you marry my couch!

You forgot the time when Gaul lost to the Romans,the Americans nevr lost a battle against the Romans. Of course Germany is our friend. Lets see, the Hessians against us in the Revolution. And they started both world wars, but no we hate our ally the French. Lets not hate the country that brought us into the 2 world wars and also was agaisnt Iraq. Of course we love Italy. Italy who switched sides durring WW1. No that is ok but FRANCE is our enemy.

To interject here. Germany Started WWII, Austria-Hungary and Serbia started WWI. Germany just took the blame for it.

Come on, the whole thing is ridiculous, I would never wear suspenders! I'm 15! why would my pants up?
as for the whole stalin thing...thats just nasty. The man was ugly like hell, and even if not...to a black & white pic?
Stalin looks like an evil elf

Did they?
yeah, Italy switched sides in 1915 and join the Allied nations from http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1089.html which looks like a reasonable site.

Did they?

They were allied with Hitler at first in WWII as well.

Uhhh huh...sssuuuuuurrrrrreeeee.

Of course, the Wackos at Swift Boat Vets for truth are wackos too! If only all thos extra groups would go away, this would be a MUCH cleaner election...


swift boats's antithesis is actually texans for truth. a group of conservatives who, admirable, have decided to "out" bush's awol status despite the fact that they are conservatives. ( theres more than a few that served where dubya was supposed to, but never saw him or even heard of him)

To interject here. Germany Started WWII, Austria-Hungary and Serbia started WWI. Germany just took the blame for it.
I am trying to point out how people say we saved the French and they havent done anything for us. However, they arent mad at the countries we fought. At least France was our ally.

mmm..old french hags...

I still dont get what it is with american rightwingers and the french. Will you please explain the grudge? ( awful, movie, by the way)
the grudge is Chirac wouldnt fall in line behind Derr Fuhrers lies about Iraq

They were allied with Hitler at first in WWII as well.
werent they always? when was Mussolini killed?

WE AT MOVEON ARE AT LEAST SOMEWHAT DESERVING OF RESPCT AND CREDIBILITY!! WE ARE NOT WACKOS!!

The reason why I don't cite Moveon is that I know it will be instantly ignored, no matter what the veracity of the particular point may be. Of course, regular rational thought is often ignored anyay.

the grudge is Chirac wouldnt fall in line behind Derr Fuhrers lies about Iraq

Funny, I didn't know Germany still had a Fuhrer.

By this post, I nominate MKULTRA as Partisan on the Left. I haven't been around long enough to decide on the right.

If MKULTRA is The Red Arrow (not unlikely,) i approve of his placement. Otherwise, Letila < MKULTRA

I wish to nominate Gymoor, Spoffin, and Gigatron for honorable mentions.

EDIT: You already got Gymoor, sorry, my bad.
I was/is TRA and Letila is more leftwing then me

I would liek to nominate Decisive Action as the craziest right-winger ever. Anne coulter with a penis, people!!
Ann Coulter already has a penis--She/he just tucks its

Nominations for the right:
Biff Pileon
Omni Conglomerates (haven't heard much from him lately though)
New York METS
Halloccia (you know I had to endorse myself, hehe. Couldn't resist)
Rush Limbaugh aka Maha Rushie aka El Rushbo

Nominations for the left:
MKULTRA
Stephistan
Michael Moore (just to be like Fox: "fair and balanced"!)

I knew I'd piss someone off with these nominations ;)

I was/is TRA and Letila is more leftwing then me

It's for most partisan. I'd say you two are about even.

I don't know about the right.

Yes, but that was over 220 years ago! I agree, the french helped us THEN, but once again, that was 220 years ago.

2. Iraq wasnt a terrible mistake.

3. WEll, EXCUSE me, but they lost the Napoleanic wars, the Invasion of MExico, teh Franco-prussian war, they woulda lost WWI without the U.S. and Britain, WWII without the U.S. and Britain, they dragged us into vietnam so they could run away, they did very little in IRaq, and they only came into Afghanistan after all teh major fighting had ended.
Iraq is a trillion dollar QUAGMIRE

Nominations for the right:
Biff Pileon
Omni Conglomerates (haven't heard much from him lately though)
New York METS
Halloccia (you know I had to endorse myself, hehe. Couldn't resist)
Rush Limbaugh aka Maha Rushie aka El Rushbo

Nominations for the left:
MKULTRA
Stephistan
Michael Moore (just to be like Fox: "fair and balanced"!)

I knew I'd piss someone off with these nominations ;)


and not me... COME ON Im just not as well known! I called for forceful brainwashing of conservatives!! I consider neo-conservatism a mental disease!! not even a nomination???

and not me... COME ON Im just not as well known! I called for forceful brainwashing of conservatives!! I consider neo-conservatism a mental disease!! not even a nomination???

Now you're just trying too hard.

Chess Squares, with a complete l;ack of logic thrown in to round out his partisanship.
LOL you musta cracked your own mirror

and not me... COME ON Im just not as well known! I called for forceful brainwashing of conservatives!! I consider neo-conservatism a mental disease!! not even a nomination???

Nomination for the anarchist/fascist/communists:
CRACKPIE

There, happy? Seriously though, I haven't ready much from you. Although that is probably just my fault since I tend to read these posts late at night right before I go to bed.

and Iraq WAS a mistake, but its also the democrats fault * spits on kerry* for not allwoing drilling oil in Alaska.
What the hell are you gonna do with the damn state anyway!
we dont need to rape Alaska to boost our oil stock a whopping 1%

What about me? I'm the most partisan.

You forgot the time when Gaul lost to the Romans,the Americans nevr lost a battle against the Romans. Of course Germany is our friend. Lets see, the Hessians against us in the Revolution. And they started both world wars, but no we hate our ally the French. Lets not hate the country that brought us into the 2 world wars and also was agaisnt Iraq. Of course we love Italy. Italy who switched sides durring WW1. No that is ok but FRANCE is our enemy.
France isnt our enemy--Bush is

Iraq is a trillion dollar QUAGMIRE

MK, the price tag is not a trillion dollars! its at 120 Billion last time I checked factcheck.org

And Iraq is not a quagmire.

Nomination for the anarchist/fascist/communists:
CRACKPIE

There, happy? Seriously though, I haven't ready much from you. Although that is probably just my fault since I tend to read these posts late at night right before I go to bed.


Anarchist? fascist? communist? waht kind of asshole/dumbass (for communism) do you take me for?

Anarchist? fascist? communist? waht kind of asshole/dumbass (for communism) do you take me for?

The nomination is for partisanship, not attention-whoring. :D

munkebrain (eutrusca, sukafitz, and a long list of others come close)
mkultra though hes just a bit more odd than partisan

Iraq is a trillion dollar QUAGMIRE

See, democrats throw these words around to scare us. LISTEN TO ME! This is MUCH less bad than Vietnam! We've only lost 1,000 people! Thats not alot for 18 months of occupation! We are going to make Iraq Free, and EVERYONE knows that Saddam was evil!(if not for the reasons GWB gave).

We WILL win this war, Mr., and its people like you that caused us to loose vietnam! You caused Americans to hate their own country, and when a people hate their own country all hell breaks loose!

Hey, all I do is link to sites like CSPAN, Factcheck.org, CNN and the like. I've never one referenced Democracy Now! or Moveon.org. Sigh. And yet I am assailed on all sides.
yeah but MoveOn.org and Democracynow are just as valid sources of info as anywhere else.They have their own bias but they dont pretend to be "fair and balanced" like the republican liars at Foxnews claim to be--its only Foxnews that has been caught in outright lies

MK, the price tag is not a trillion dollars! its at 120 Billion last time I checked factcheck.org

And Iraq is not a quagmire.

No, Iraq is fubar. I feel bad for our men and women over there, bravely fighting and doing the best they can under, ultimately, the leadership of an incompetent idiot.

MK, the price tag is not a trillion dollars! its at 120 Billion last time I checked factcheck.org

And Iraq is not a quagmire.
It is where stupid liberal idealogy goes to die.

The nomination is for partisanship, not attention-whoring. :D

how funny. seriously, you should like do stand up. the world needs you now more than ever, now that Dangerfield rests and we cant laugh at Reeve anymore.

yeah but MoveOn.org and Democracynow are just as valid sources of info as anywhere else.They have their own bias but they dont pretend to be "fair and balanced" like the republican liars at Foxnews claim to be--its only Foxnews that has been caught in outright lies

I looked at Democracynow.org and on moveon.org! I found both of them to be very very biased and I don't think I would use them as credible news sources.

CNN and Fox News and MSNBC are good ones as is C-Span!

I looked at Democracynow.org and on moveon.org! I found both of them to be very very biased and I don't think I would use them as credible news sources.


Leftwing garbage consumed by the sheeple of the DNC.

No, Iraq is fubar. I feel bad for our men and women over there, bravely fighting and doing the best they can under, ultimately, the leadership of an incompetent idiot.

I'm not going to argue politics here! There is enough of it as it is. You have your opinions and I have mine. I do feel though that the Iraq war was necessary and I'm glad that it finally happened.

That is all I'm going to say on this.

I looked at Democracynow.org and on moveon.org! I found both of them to be very very biased and I don't think I would use them as credible news sources.

CNN and Fox News and MSNBC are good ones as is C-Span!
FOx news? yeah, ok, thats credible. Im sorry, but if it has rupert murdoch heading it, I hate it by default. I mean, who hires Bill O'reilly, seriously? The man is a huge, blubbbering vagina.

Also...I dont see how we at moveon are not credible, and so widely hated. Please, someone explain.

but you are a hero!! please, wont you marry my couch!
but Im already bleeping my pillow

but Im already bleeping my pillow

then we must kill your pillow. Beleive me, my couch is a much better life partner.

swift boats's antithesis is actually texans for truth. a group of conservatives who, admirable, have decided to "out" bush's awol status despite the fact that they are conservatives. ( theres more than a few that served where dubya was supposed to, but never saw him or even heard of him)
those are the kind of conservatives I can respect

MK, the price tag is not a trillion dollars! its at 120 Billion last time I checked factcheck.org

And Iraq is not a quagmire.
yeah it is--you cant win a war without the support of the people in the country your looting

yeah it is--you cant win a war without the support of the people in the country your looting


well...using Coulter logic, you could kill everyo in the looted country, because you dont need the support of dead people!
apeaking of the devil (Coulter) did you hear waht happened at the speech she gave at a university

yeah it is--you cant win a war without the support of the people in the country your looting

Funny! I didn't know we were looting. I also thought that the looting has stopped.

Allawi has the support of the people and elections are right around the cornor. Fallujah is about to be attacked since it is a hotbed of terrorism inside the nation. The terrorists are starting to get desprate inside Iraq.

Ok now that I got that out of the way, how is it a quagmire?

See, democrats throw these words around to scare us. LISTEN TO ME! This is MUCH less bad than Vietnam! We've only lost 1,000 people! Thats not alot for 18 months of occupation! We are going to make Iraq Free, and EVERYONE knows that Saddam was evil!(if not for the reasons GWB gave).

We WILL win this war, Mr., and its people like you that caused us to loose vietnam! You caused Americans to hate their own country, and when a people hate their own country all hell breaks loose!
I hate Bush because I love America

I dont hate America I hate Bush
You hate both, i'll leave it to you decide which you hate moore.

I looked at Democracynow.org and on moveon.org! I found both of them to be very very biased and I don't think I would use them as credible news sources.

CNN and Fox News and MSNBC are good ones as is C-Span!
they may be biast but the news storys in them are real- CNN and MSNBC are corporate pablum Foxnews is an arm of the RNC --but I agree C-span is totally objective

I'm not going to argue politics here! There is enough of it as it is. You have your opinions and I have mine. I do feel though that the Iraq war was necessary and I'm glad that it finally happened.

That is all I'm going to say on this.

Whether the Iraq war was necessary or not is a dead issue. We can't change the past. Screw the reasons behind it, we're stuck in it now. What we can change is the gross incompetence that runs the Iraq war at the moment.

Leftwing garbage consumed by the sheeple of the DNC.
its republicans who never question their leaders--sheepleness is not a leftwing trait at all

Whether the Iraq war was necessary or not is a dead issue. We can't change the past. Screw the reasons behind it, we're stuck in it now. What we can change is the gross incompetence that runs the Iraq war at the moment.

I agree that it is a dead issue and that it should be dropped as such. We'll stay till the job is done. That has been what we've been doing since the invasion.

then we must kill your pillow. Beleive me, my couch is a much better life partner.
If was gonna take a step up to furniture couldnt it at least be a Sofa--a couch sounds so... common :)

swift boats's antithesis is actually texans for truth. a group of conservatives who, admirable, have decided to "out" bush's awol status despite the fact that they are conservatives. ( theres more than a few that served where dubya was supposed to, but never saw him or even heard of him)

Oh please!

They are conservatives?

Texans for Truth was established by Glenn W. Smith, also the Director of the 20,000-member Texas online activist group, DriveDemocracy.org.

Guess what DriveDemocracy.org links to?

Moveon.org and the Million Mom March

Craig

well...using Coulter logic, you could kill everyo in the looted country, because you dont need the support of dead people!
apeaking of the devil (Coulter) did you hear waht happened at the speech she gave at a university
yeah but some sad degenrate in another forum told me that story is 4 years old--if true shes long overdue for another pie job

its republicans who never question their leaders--sheepleness is not a leftwing trait at all

Actually I know a LOT of sheep on the left. Just because there are plenty of Christians (= sheep) on the right, doesn't mean there sheep (or Christians) on the left.

If was gonna take a step up to furniture couldnt it at least be a Sofa--a couch sounds so... common :)
actually..it looks like a couch...*whispers*but its really a disguised fouton *dramatic music*

Oh please!

They are conservatives?



Guess what DriveDemocracy.org links to?

Moveon.org and the Million Mom March

Craig


they link to moveon because we helped them air a commercial with a few of the guys that were in Bush's unit but only recently found out he was there. they lead to the million mom march because of moveon.

Funny! I didn't know we were looting. I also thought that the looting has stopped.

Allawi has the support of the people and elections are right around the cornor. Fallujah is about to be attacked since it is a hotbed of terrorism inside the nation. The terrorists are starting to get desprate inside Iraq.

Ok now that I got that out of the way, how is it a quagmire?
the corporate looting has never stopped tho--Allawi is hated on the ground and seen as the thug puppet he is--and whatever label you want to smack on Iraq the bottomline is the costs of "liberating" it certainly werent worth it at all--especially if Allawi just ends up being a Saddam part 2

You hate both, i'll leave it to you decide which you hate moore.
Bush hates the middle class thats why hes waging a class war against it

the corporate looting has never stopped tho--Allawi is hated on the ground and seen as the thug puppet he is--and whatever label you want to smack on Iraq the bottomline is the costs of "liberating" it certainly werent worth it at all--especially if Allawi just ends up being a Saddam part 2

Care to provide a link to say that he is hated on the ground and that he is seen as a thug puppet? I don't believe this at all dude.

I agree that it is a dead issue and that it should be dropped as such. We'll stay till the job is done. That has been what we've been doing since the invasion.
thats the point--its not getting done under Bush--just recently he turned away muslim peacekeepers from being sent to Iraq to help reduce US casualties

Bush hates the middle class thats why hes waging a class war against it

Funny thing is, the Middle Class got a tax cut.

I'm glad noone's nominated me. I might be socially progressive, but I'm definitely libertarian and for limited government spending (which can be soo hard sometimes).

There ARE correct answers in politics. And I want to find them. I don't care if they are left or right, conservative or liberal, libertarian or authoritarian, I just want to find the answers.

Politics is a science like any other, and people just have to learn that. There is no such thing as "everyone is correct". Some things work, some things don't.

The best politics are the ones that benefit the majority (but simultaneously the individual), the world at large (and environment), and (all of the social, racial, sexual, religious classes of) the country whose politics are being decided.

That said, I'm pretty close to center, with liberal tendencies on MOST social issues, and libertarian tendencies on MOST government involvement issues. I'll gladly admit I have trouble with government spending.

But I don't want anyone to claim I'm partisan. I'm not partisan. I'm after the facts. I'm a nihilist for fuck's sake (basically a Christian who doesn't believe in God [or Jesus, at least]), why should I care whether I'm a "pinko" or "nazi"? I just take in the facts I'm given and derive the best output, which incidentally coincides with the opinions that most scientists hold (those liberal-centrist scientists :p).

So please, please, please, I'd be very offended if anyone suggested I had a partisan agenda, and wasn't simply inhabiting this site to learn the most from all ideologies.

thats the point--its not getting done under Bush--just recently he turned away muslim peacekeepers from being sent to Iraq to help reduce US casualties

Then attack Fallujah! That attack is coming.

actually..it looks like a couch...*whispers*but its really a disguised fouton *dramatic music*
ARRGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

Care to provide a link to say that he is hated on the ground and that he is seen as a thug puppet? I don't believe this at all dude.
Allawi is the occupiers puppet even the most illiterate Itaqi knows this much--he used to work for the CIA--he spent years living outside Iraq and he shot to death 6 people in his office once which he walks around bragging about

Funny thing is, the Middle Class got a tax cut.
which was sent to Iraq in the form of corporate welfare

MunkeBrain
You hate both, i'll leave it to you decide which you hate moore.

MKULTRA
Bush hates the middle class thats why hes waging a class war against it.

MunkeBrain - Freudian slip?

MKULTRA - He needs the middle class. He gave them a [minor] tax cut. He gave the upper class a [huge] tax cut too! --- That's the problem. You can't have tax cuts with a deficit. It ends up hurting the middle class (intentionally or unintentionally) in the end.

Allawi is the occupiers puppet even the most illiterate Itaqi knows this much--he used to work for the CIA--he spent years living outside Iraq and he shot to death 6 people in his office once which he walks around bragging about

And that is an urban legend that has never been confirmed. As for him working for the CIA, I can believe it. As for a puppet, sorry dude but I don't consider him a puppet. Now can you provide me a link that he is hated on the ground and seen as the thug puppet?

Then attack Fallujah! That attack is coming.
using the strategy of convential warfare alone does zero to stop terrorism--if you dont believe me just look at Israel for an example.

Can we make a distinction between being partisan and being blindly partisan? I'm partisan, I admit--and Straughn nominated me--but I'm not blind to the failings of my own party or to the good points of the opposition. I think that elevates me above some of the others who have been nominated repeatedly (or who have been whoring for nominations :D).

MunkeBrain - Freudian slip?

MKULTRA - He needs the middle class. He gave them a [minor] tax cut. He gave the upper class a [huge] tax cut too! --- That's the problem. You can't have tax cuts with a deficit. It ends up hurting the middle class (intentionally or unintentionally) in the end.
Bush intentionally hurts working Americans--hes a self admitted class bigot. He once was giving a speech to a roomfull of billionaires and he said "some people would call you the elite. I call you my base"--Tom Delay republicans in the House dont even TALK to the dem minority at all-They hold conferences with corporate lobbyists instead (which accounts for all the anti-middle class Bills they promote) and they even demand that corporate whores only contribute money to GOP coffers--if thats not class warfare I dont know what is...

And that is an urban legend that has never been confirmed. As for him working for the CIA, I can believe it. As for a puppet, sorry dude but I don't consider him a puppet. Now can you provide me a link that he is hated on the ground and seen as the thug puppet?
IRAQI MAN: We want Iraqis who lived under the torment of Saddam’s regime to represent Iraq. We don’t want those who lived safely abroad.

MunkeBrain - Freudian slip?

Kind of, but not really.

IRAQI MAN: We want Iraqis who lived under the torment of Saddam’s regime to represent Iraq. We don’t want those who lived safely abroad.

I said a source

Ah, good, i'm not on here :p

I'm rather upset by my company there. Do you honestly see me as that partisan (therefore, to some extent, using fuzzy logic in order to support my preconceptions.)
You are one of the more rational of the partisans, but you are very biased. I have seen you call Bush supporters ignorant several times. (Yes, I know I've done it too so don't point it out.) I've also never seen a bad word about Kerry from you.

I would liek to nominate Decisive Action as the craziest right-winger ever. Anne coulter with a penis, people!!
True, but he hasn't posted here in a while. He laft after I openly called him 'Ann Coulter'.

I have been known to make one or two people angry. Although that might be to do with my 'no nonsense' attitude.

This is brilliant! My thread about partisan posters has turned into a simmering cauldron of partisanship!

the corporate looting has never stopped tho--Allawi is hated on the ground and seen as the thug puppet he is--and whatever label you want to smack on Iraq the bottomline is the costs of "liberating" it certainly werent worth it at all--especially if Allawi just ends up being a Saddam part 2
Wrong. Maybe you should take a tour on the ground as you say, and see the facts from some place besides your living room.
Allawi was chosen BY IRAQIS in a council vote to lead their country until elections.He was not even the one Americans would have chosen had they chosen.He was chosen because he was the only person all sides could agree, or rather, no side was against.

Allawi is the occupiers puppet even the most illiterate Itaqi knows this much--he used to work for the CIA--he spent years living outside Iraq and he shot to death 6 people in his office once which he walks around bragging about
You do not know the first thing about this, as most of your posts show ;)
You have to get your news from somewhere besides moveon.org and democracynow.org :)

This is brilliant! My thread about partisan posters has turned into a simmering cauldron of partisanship!
I noticed:)but, it is kind of funny, don't you think?
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with being partisan, I think. It is good to believe in SOMETHING anyway.I have pretty good friends who are on both extremes, and it doesn't change what kind of people they are.

Bush intentionally hurts working Americans--hes a self admitted class bigot. He once was giving a speech to a roomfull of billionaires and he said "some people would call you the elite. I call you my base"--Tom Delay republicans in the House dont even TALK to the dem minority at all-They hold conferences with corporate lobbyists instead (which accounts for all the anti-middle class Bills they promote) and they even demand that corporate whores only contribute money to GOP coffers--if thats not class warfare I dont know what is...
Quote after quote...are you making this up or is moveon.org making it up?Another that didn't/hasn't/won't happen.If you are going to make up stories, you should try to mix just a tiny bit of fiction with alot of truth, at least, and consider that some of your readers might be smarter.Or, a novel idea, you could try and back your position up with....hmmm,facts? There really are a few of those that almost could help you with SOME of your arguments.

Can we make a distinction between being partisan and being blindly partisan? I'm partisan, I admit--and Straughn nominated me--but I'm not blind to the failings of my own party or to the good points of the opposition. I think that elevates me above some of the others who have been nominated repeatedly (or who have been whoring for nominations :D).

Exactly.. and given I'm not even an American, I obviously am not blindly partisan. I'm with Incertonia on this one!

Exactly.. and given I'm not even an American, I obviously am not blindly partisan.


Are you saying only Americans can be blindly partisan? Umm...

Are you saying only Americans can be blindly partisan? Umm...

I think so, yes. Mostly because us who live in other countries can look at it more objectively I believe then one can within your own country. My only real interest in the American election is foreign policy. Other then that, I could care a less.

Exactly.. and given I'm not even an American, I obviously am not blindly partisan. I'm with Incertonia on this one!
Despite the facts that we are usually it seems on opposite sides, I am pretty sure by most of your posts that you at least actually believe what you write,and you do seem to think things out on occasion ;) which is a plus. I would not nominate you for this, or incertonia...
Actually I could not nominate anyone, because everyone on here is pretty much blindly partisan, to some extent at least. However, your mention of not being American, most of the most partisan voices in this election campaign have been from un-Americans. We even have the Guardian newspaper in the UK illegally attempting to influence the election in Ohio,we have many of our allies,such as Germany, doing so in various,only slightly more legal ways. Being a foreigner only means they SHOULD stay out of our politics and be nonpartisan, it does not mean they DO.

We even have the Guardian newspaper in the UK illegally attempting to influence the election in Ohio,we have many of our allies,such as Germany, doing so in various,only slightly more legal ways.

You mean how the US does? Like in Iraq? Or maybe Cuba? Or maybe Condi Rice saying the other day that Arafat should step aside even though he was choosen by his people.. Got ya! ;)

You mean how the US does? Like in Iraq? Or maybe Cuba? Or maybe Condi Rice saying the other day that Arafat should step aside even though he was choosen by his people.. Got ya! ;)
You won't get me to agree with you on Iraq, or Cuba, because their leaders were not chosen by their people. I do agree with you on Palestine, when a person is elected, whether or not we like him, we should accept the fact, and if he or she does a shoddy job, it's up to their citizens to remove him next election. This is a basic right, and one we are trying to give to Iraq. As for Cuba, I think Castro is a weird person, a jerk, imprisons people for no reason, etc. But to my knowledge he at least doesn't execute them, I may be wrong. I also think it is possible that he could win in an open election, although I do not understand why he wouldn't put it up to a vote to see unless he thought he can't.

Biff Pileon for the right
Letila for the left

Me for most supreme educated. :D


Letila is not a left-winger, letila isnt old enough to vote.

Letila is an anarchist, which is to say somone with no grasp whatsoever of either politics or relations between people.

I think so, yes. Mostly because us who live in other countries can look at it more objectively I believe then one can within your own country. My only real interest in the American election is foreign policy. Other then that, I could care a less.

Ah...I didn't realize you were speaking strictly about American politics. Well then, that makes more sense.
Couldn't care less, perhaps?

Letila is an anarchist, which is to say somone with no grasp whatsoever of either politics or relations between people.

Ah, right, so someone like Leo Tolstoy, as an anarchist, had 'no grasp whatsoever of either politics or relations between people' then?

Ah, right, so someone like Leo Tolstoy, as an anarchist, had 'no grasp whatsoever of either politics or relations between people' then?


Tolstoy wasnt privy to the 20th century's experiments in anarchy, nor was he likely aware of pirmitive history to the degree we are nowadays.

He had an excuse.

Letila is not a left-winger, letila isnt old enough to vote.


What does voting ability have to do with political leanings?

Anyway, I didn't want to nominate myself, so I picked the one person who came closest left to me. I ran it through the LiberalTron 3000 and Letila came up, hence, my nomination.

As far as I can tell, I am the most populist liberal leftist on this forum - I'll defy anyone to prove otherwise - and so Party loyalist that I'd grab a rifle and fight or die for the cause if a new civil war cropped up .... however, self-nomination is just cheesy.

Wrong. Maybe you should take a tour on the ground as you say, and see the facts from some place besides your living room.
Allawi was chosen BY IRAQIS in a council vote to lead their country until elections.He was not even the one Americans would have chosen had they chosen.He was chosen because he was the only person all sides could agree, or rather, no side was against.


You are patently incorrect, Ayad Allawi is a despised exile who was appointed by the US-appointed iraqi council. He is a puppet leader, one in a long long series of puppet leaders the US has installed throuought the world in the last hundred-odd years.

What does voting ability have to do with political leanings?

Anyway, I didn't want to nominate myself, so I picked the one person who came closest left to me. I ran it through the LiberalTron 3000 and Letila came up, hence, my nomination.

As far as I can tell, I am the most populist liberal leftist on this forum - I'll defy anyone to prove otherwise - and so Party loyalist that I'd grab a rifle and fight or die for the cause if a new civil war cropped up .... however, self-nomination is just cheesy.


All the same, letila is not left-wing, letila is anarchist, a position which dissolves both any serious politicial philosophy and any chance of being taken seriously.

You are patently incorrect, Ayad Allawi is a despised exile who was appointed by the US-appointed iraqi council. He is a puppet leader, one in a long long series of puppet leaders the US has installed throuought the world in the last hundred-odd years.

Not all of them were appointed and Allawi was not the choice of the US and of the UN

Tolstoy wasnt privy to the 20th century's experiments in anarchy,


Such as? I'm assuming the SCW, in which the anarchists proved that it was possible for anarchists to not only to organise on a massive scale, but also to set up alternative economic systems and even to field an army which held its own until they were stabbed in the back by statists. Possibly you're talking about the Makhnovists, who managed the same three feats before once again falling prey to statist communists.

nor was he likely aware of pirmitive history to the degree we are nowadays.

Run past me again the reason why C20th knowledge of 'primitive history' shows that anarchism is fundamentally flawed, would you?

All the same, letila is not left-wing, letila is anarchist, a position which dissolves both any serious politicial philosophy and any chance of being taken seriously.


I've read Letila's posts ... Letila is left wing ... not populist left, but left nonetheless ...

But, then again ... "Left" isn't a Party, so I suppose I should concede that portion of it.

You are patently incorrect, Ayad Allawi is a despised exile who was appointed by the US-appointed iraqi council. He is a puppet leader, one in a long long series of puppet leaders the US has installed throuought the world in the last hundred-odd years.
The US did not choose the Iraqi council, the Shiites, Kurds, and Sunnis did.
Chalabi would have been the US choice at the time but was not agreed to by the council(HE,not Allawi, was the "despised exile"). Allawi was chosen by the council, and you also appear to have no real ground knowledge of the situation as it exists in that country. nevertheless, that is not what this thread is about, so I will drop it there.

Nominations for the right:
Biff Pileon
(I know i'm forgetting someone)


Nominations for the left:
MKULTRA

Such as? I'm assuming the SCW, in which the anarchists proved that it was possible for anarchists to not only to organise on a massive scale, but also to set up alternative economic systems
SCW? What country is that?

SCW? What country is that?

Spanish Civil War.

The US did not choose the Iraqi council, the Shiites, Kurds, and Sunnis did.

Chalabi would have been the US choice at the time but was not agreed to by the council(HE,not Allawi, was the "despised exile"). Allawi was chosen by the council

Just so we are clear. The US basically did choose the Iraqi interm government. Think in these terms. The CPA was hand picked by the Americans, who in turn picked the Iraqi interm government. So, you do the math. ;)

Exactly.. and given I'm not even an American, I obviously am not blindly partisan. I'm with Incertonia on this one!
:rolleyes: HUH!

:rolleyes: HUH!
She means, I think, that since she isn't voting for our President or our Presidential party she can't be blindly "partisan".

Partisan: one who takes part of another. She isn't taking view of of Democrats or republicans so she can't be partisan.

How ever since she is with Incertonia: she is partisan enough to be like her.

Last part was a joke haha. Just using a play on words.

Has Chess Squares been nominated yet? If not, I'd like to nominate him.

Has Chess Squares been nominated yet? If not, I'd like to nominate him.
I actually would second that, but I think* it is a her. Not certain. But there are very few on the left here who spout insults when there are no facts, and he/she is one of the few I have seen. I stand on the right probably as far as foreign policy, and in the center for domestic, but I still have agreed to many "left"leaning people here who actually can back up their position with considered NON partisan fact. Chess Squares does not even bother trying to use fact in any post I have seen, and instead spouts insults at those with different viewpoints. This must be the example of "blind partisanship"
I am sure there will probably even be an insult at this post, such is life:)

Not all of them were appointed and Allawi was not the choice of the US and of the UN
Well originally Chalabi would have been the choice of the US - a criminal, liar... quite the good company to lead a country, suitable for the likes of Dubya Bush-Adolf.

Biff Pileon for the right
Letila for the left :D

Letila is not on the left. He is a crazy anarchistic libertarian. You rightwingers get him.

We liberials officially disown him, and all anarchists.

I actually would second that, but I think* it is a her. Not certain. But there are very few on the left here who spout insults when there are no facts, and he/she is one of the few I have seen. I stand on the right probably as far as foreign policy, and in the center for domestic, but I still have agreed to many "left"leaning people here who actually can back up their position with considered NON partisan fact. Chess Squares does not even bother trying to use fact in any post I have seen, and instead spouts insults at those with different viewpoints. This must be the example of "blind partisanship"
I am sure there will probably even be an insult at this post, such is life:)

He/she drives me up a freaking wall.

Well originally Chalabi would have been the choice of the US - a criminal, liar... quite the good company to lead a country, suitable for the likes of Dubya Bush-Adolf.

actually he wasn't the US and UN choice as Prime Minister

Just so we are clear. The US basically did choose the Iraqi interm government. Think in these terms. The CPA was hand picked by the Americans, who in turn picked the Iraqi interm government. So, you do the math. ;)
Probably I would score you half point here at least. The US looked over the list the Iraqis gave for the CPA, and had veto authority(which they used in at least one case *I think*) But the US did not choose the list per se. Also, the US presumably had veto authority on the CPA choice for leadership, and did not exercise that. So, yes, that, combined with the fact armed troops give an advantage in the process,means we did have say in the choice, but so did they(Iraqis) and the whole point of my post was that if as MKULTRA had stated he was hated on the ground, they never would have chosen him. The fact is he is well respected on the ground, or at least was before this, time will tell if that remains the case.

Letila is not on the left. He is a crazy anarchistic libertarian. You rightwingers get him.

We liberials officially disown him, and all anarchists.
Lol, that was funny, really. We don't want her,maybe there should be a third side?

Lol, that was funny, really. We don't want her,maybe there should be a third side?
Is Letila a guy or girl? Sounds like a female name to me, but hey, what do I know?
Also, I always assumes Chess Squares was a guy, but he/she drives me crazy most of the time too, even though at times i agree with they point he's trying to make. Just has a horrible way of trying to make it.

Is Letila a guy or girl?

Letila is a him.

Letila is not on the left. He is a crazy anarchistic libertarian. You rightwingers get him.

We liberials officially disown him, and all anarchists.

NO! YOU TAKE HIM!

Here, if you take him we'll give you a cookie! Its chocolate chip too!

How's this for partisan claptrap: We appointed and supported Saddam as dictator of Iraq and sold him weapons, We are ignoring threats posed by North Korea, The Iranian Islamic Revolution was our fault since we supported and appointed the last Shaiykh who pissed them off to the point of rebellion, We still support dictators in countries like Azerbaijan for their oil, and our media is so undeniably corrupt that they manajed to spread rumors of a dictator in Venezuela and incited the tiny minority that actually disliked Hugo Chavez into rebellion (am I the only one that remembers that old incident? If your memory draws a blank, check out the documentary the revolution willl not be televised). The Best part is, this is all true.

Am I nominated for the left yet?

Can we make a distinction between being partisan and being blindly partisan? I'm partisan, I admit--and Straughn nominated me--but I'm not blind to the failings of my own party or to the good points of the opposition. I think that elevates me above some of the others who have been nominated repeatedly (or who have been whoring for nominations :D).

I'm with you there Incertonia. I was called partisan too, but I think it has to do more with my determination to refute a few myths about "my side," than my ability to process factual information. Some people get uncomfortable when I say things like, "back up your point with facts or shut up."

Let me also add that "partisan" doesn't mean "being firmly on one of the two sides." There are a myriad of positions. For example, both mainstream (?) sides have disowned Letila, so I think we are safe to say that Letila is fervently partisan on his own distinct side. In other words, be more analytical than just saying "this person is partisan left, or this person is partisan right." That's stupid "Crossfire" talk. It lacks depth, it inhibits the free exchange of ideas, and one might end up wearing a bow tie (shudder.) Furthermore, it inhibits one's ability to really understand someones point. If you label them, then you automatically thrust a whole boatload of ideologies on their plate that they may or may not subscribe to. It allows you to dismiss them without ever listening to them, and hey, you never know where a nugget of wisdom may pop up. Even Munkebrain may one day say something astute (or would that take in infinite number of Munkebrains typing at an infinite number of computers...) :D

I haven't made up my mind about Biff Pileon completely yet. I think he's a pretty intelligent guy who truly believes what he says. I know almost nothing about Letila.

I may be mentioning this too early (first page, someone else may say it down the line) but just because someone "truly believe what he says" or is in fact very intelligent does not make them right or even reasonable. Sometimes these can be the most divisive and dangerous people there are.

Dick Cheney, Ann 'Crazy Bitch' Coulter and Karl Rove come to mind as these types of people.

*not a swing at Biff and I apologize even in passing comparing him to the slightest bit to Ann Coulter.

[QUOTE=Takrai]The US did not choose the Iraqi council, the Shiites, Kurds, and Sunnis did.
QUOTE]


How did they choose the council? Its not like they had any elections.

True, but he hasn't posted here in a while. He laft after I openly called him 'Ann Coulter'.

I move that we even nominate the people who no longer post here or are inactive. If nothing more than for historical reasons and to pass anecdotes around.

Letila is not on the left. He is a crazy anarchistic libertarian. You rightwingers get him.

We liberials officially disown him, and all anarchists.


Urm ... maybe you missed where I said I was the most leftist liberal on these forums ... I don't disown Letila.

[QUOTE=Takrai]The US did not choose the Iraqi council, the Shiites, Kurds, and Sunnis did.
QUOTE]


How did they choose the council? Its not like they had any elections.
Their leaders did. Clerics,(even the one fighting now) all took part.

I agree with all of it, except Gymoor. Honestly, I don't see him as being THAT blindly partisan ;)

Me, neither. Likewise, same thing for Chess Squares. I always saw them as left-leaning moderates.

Letila is a him.

What about you, BWO?

MKULTRA is just stating the truth *shrug*
Munkebrain is making up shit to smear people. MKULTRA is a hero. Munkebrain is a parrot.
Now we know MKULTRA's alter ego...

Now we know MKULTRA's alter ego...

No, I'm MKULTRA's alter ego. I'm a conspiracy theorist.

I nominate myself. I've always seen myself as partisan.

What about you, BWO?

Me? I'm just happy to see the authoritarian rightists and leftists both publicly disowning us anarchists.

Letila is not on the left. He is a crazy anarchistic libertarian. You rightwingers get him.

We liberials officially disown him, and all anarchists.
Oh, I forgot to mention you. You're an uber-partisan Democrat.

Me? I'm just happy to see the authoritarian rightists and leftists both publicly disowning us anarchists.

I meant your gender.

Me? I'm just happy to see the authoritarian rightists and leftists both publicly disowning us anarchists.

Anarchy=what its like its like in somalia. I wouldnt want the U.S. or anywhere else to be that way...

Me, neither. Likewise, same thing for Chess Squares. I always saw them as left-leaning moderates.

I dunno, I can definatly see him as being partisan at times.

And he's probebly damn proud of it, too :p

NO! YOU TAKE HIM!

Here, if you take him we'll give you a cookie! Its chocolate chip too!

No, you take the anarchists. Us liberials want nothing to do with them. We'll give you Alaska in the election.

Pretty please.......

Urm ... maybe you missed where I said I was the most leftist liberal on these forums ... I don't disown Letila.


Yes, but I'm the official crazy liberial. You are a traitor to the cause. By supporting anarchists you are supporting libertarinism and guns.

BTW Kind of joking, but not really.

Anarchy=what its like its like in somalia.

anarchy (in the sense you are using it) != anarchism.

The conflict between various statist factions has little or nothing to do with the anarchist movement or anarchist politics.

I meant your gender.

You know, I'm starting to find your fascination with exactly what kind of reproductive organs I have between my hips to be somewhat disturbing.

You know, I'm starting to find your fascination with exactly what kind of reproductive organs I have between my hips to be somewhat disturbing.

Don't worry all conservatives are like that.

anarchy (in the sense you are using it) != anarchism.

The conflict between various statist factions has little or nothing to do with the anarchist movement or anarchist politics.

Anarchy= the lack of government.
Somalia=has no government.

See the resemblance?

Anarchy= the lack of government.
Somalia=has no government.

See the resemblance?

No. Anarchy is possibly the worst idea ever forged from the demented minds of "non-confomists." They are not liberials!

No. Anarchy is possibly the worst idea ever forged from the demented minds of "non-confomists." They are not liberials!

I dun see what that has to do with my post...

All i said was that Somalia is in Anarchy because it has no government!

Anarchy= the lack of government.
Somalia=has no government.

See the resemblance?

Well, firstly, you might want to check with the CIA world factbook or some other such reference material before you declare that Somalia has no government: here's a link for you -

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/so.html


Secondly, the important distinction is that Somalia is in turmoil because there are various different factions, each of which intends to institute itself as the permanent government, yes?

Am I starting to make clear the difference between pro-statist inter-conflict and anarchism?

Don't worry all conservatives are like that.

just don't let him come after you with a loofah.

Well, firstly, you might want to check with the CIA world factbook or some other such reference material before you declare that Somalia has no government: here's a link for you -

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/so.html


Secondly, the important distinction is that Somalia is in turmoil because there are various different factions, each of which intends to institute itself as the permanent government, yes?

Am I starting to make clear the difference between pro-statist inter-conflict and anarchism?


Anarcy will always result in conflict, like somalia. Plus the only Anarchists I've met are little Goth fags. And crazy redneck libertarians.

Anarcy will always result in conflict, like somalia. Plus the only Anarchists I've met are little Goth fags. And crazy redneck libertarians.

Which is a good thing. We don't want people like that running (or, more correctly, not running,) the government anyway.

Anarcy will always result in conflict, like somalia. Plus the only Anarchists I've met are little Goth fags. And crazy redneck libertarians.

Without wanting to be either too patronising or condescending, your limited experience of other kinds of anarchists may have something to do with the fact that you are 13 years old (IIRC).

Oh and I suppose you've met Anarchists wearing bussiness suits, with billions of dollars?
Anarchists lack the political knowledge to join a REAL party. So they decide to become a bunch of animals.

Such as? I'm assuming the SCW, in which the anarchists proved that it was possible for anarchists to not only to organise on a massive scale, but also to set up alternative economic systems and even to field an army which held its own until they were stabbed in the back by statists. Possibly you're talking about the Makhnovists, who managed the same three feats before once again falling prey to statist communists.



Run past me again the reason why C20th knowledge of 'primitive history' shows that anarchism is fundamentally flawed, would you?


Anarchist experiments in africa and south america were the ones to which I was referring.

Also, more detailed knowledge of primitive history than was posessed by the good Count Tolstoy provide some perspective on the way people act towards one another.
Namely, that ever tribe of savage hunter gatherers either became a heirarchical society or was enslanved/eradicated by one. Every. Single. One.

Oh and I suppose you've met Anarchists wearing bussiness suits, with billions of dollars?

Well, yes, I have met anarchists wearing business suits, those with billions of dollars - no. Suffice to say that all the anarchists in the world do not fit into the two categories you gave earlier of "little Goth fags" or "crazy redneck libertarians".

Anarchist experiments in africa and south america were the ones to which I was referring.

Well, the thing with anarchism is that it is still developing as an ideology, and so although particular instances of anarchist organisation may have been abject failures or only partial successes, they still remain as learning experiences and sources from which to draw new ideas or approaches to non-heirarchical organisation.

Also, more detailed knowledge of primitive history than was posessed by the good Count Tolstoy provide some perspective on the way people act towards one another.
Namely, that ever tribe of savage hunter gatherers either became a heirarchical society or was enslanved/eradicated by one. Every. Single. One.

Well, there remain dissenting voices from this viewpoint, Pierre Claestres, for example, who in his Archeology of Violence described the tribal organisation of hunter-gatherers as defense mechanisms against the new phenomenon of sedentary agrarian cultures which gave rise to the cities and thence the city state. His ideas were then later explored by Deleuze and Guattari in A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism & Schizophrenia in an attempt to create a post-structuralist model of resistance to the state based on the culture of the nomad. The lessons of the decline of the hunter-gatherer cultures and the ongoing sedimentation of the nomadic cultures of the world are still being examined and argued over.

However, to get back to fundamentals, what you are claiming as a lesson from primitive culture and the ascent of the agrarian heirarchical societies seems to be the old might is right argument. The hunter-gatherers fucked up and died or were subsumed into the Ur-cities and thus were shown to be 'wrong' in some kind of moral sense. To take this as a be-all-and-end-all argument against anarchism is to make the possibly mistaken assumption that there can be only one kind of non-heirarchical culture, and that it can be mapped to the hunter-gatherers' culture and that it was fundamental to their passing, but this is clearly the case. True, there are anarcho-primitivists who advocate a return to pre-agrarian culture and a tribal organisation, but these types are very much the minority within the anarchist movement, and are heavily outnumbered by those who are continuing to explore (in my opinion) more realistic ways of tackling the problems of C21st century global capitalism and the heirarchies with which it is inextricable.

In summary: the passing of one particular way of life, which was in itself based upon heirarchy when confronted with another heirarchical way of life somewhere between 7 and 10 thousand years ago, does not in itself consign anarchist thought to the dustbin of history.

[QUOTE=The Lightning Star]WEll, ive personally always hated france and it had NOTHING to do with being a right-winger, but heres (probably)why,

3. France hasn't won a wat without Americas help in 50 bagillion years.

QUOTE]

Nor have we won to many wars without France, I'm not saying they were much help, butt it true. Anyone who thinks we could've taken on Hitler without every piece of help we could get is smoking something. And despite the country being occupied the french army was still active. But putting everything else aside, we (the US) will forever be indebted to france. Without Frances aid there would be no USA. This can never be repaid. The two countries are virtually inseperable, politicaly, economiccaly, and in other ways. Despite what our current president seems to think, there is a middle of the road. The world is not black and white, and just because someone, or someplaces shade of grey does not match our own does not make them wrong. No one (nor any oneplace) is always right or perfect. End of story. All this said, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else besides the good ol' US of A. (Not for very long anyways, might be interesting to try for a couple months)

I am not the most partisian poster here - I am just better, smarter and more well informed than any of you. I am also a better dresser, more attractive and less olifactory offensive.

It is I who have unmasked the radical left folly and proven undisputably that extreem liberals are really not very nice people.

I am not the most partisian poster here - I am just better, smarter and more well informed than any of you. I am also a better dresser, more attractive and less olifactory offensive.

It is I who have unmasked the radical left folly and proven undisputably that extreem liberals are really not very nice people.

Nor are extreme conservitaves. I thnk the not very nice has to do with the extreme part, not the Liberal or conservative part.

I am not the most partisian poster here - I am just better, smarter and more well informed than any of you. I am also a better dresser, more attractive and less olifactory offensive.

It is I who have unmasked the radical left folly and proven undisputably that extreem liberals are really not very nice people.

Hey, two can play at that game: you are not the real MKULTRA, and I am not the real BWO.

[QUOTE=The Lightning Star]WEll, ive personally always hated france and it had NOTHING to do with being a right-winger, but heres (probably)why,

3. France hasn't won a wat without Americas help in 50 bagillion years.

QUOTE]

Nor have we won to many wars without France, I'm not saying they were much help, butt it true. Anyone who thinks we could've taken on Hitler without every piece of help we could get is smoking something. And despite the country being occupied the french army was still active. But putting everything else aside, we (the US) will forever be indebted to france. Without Frances aid there would be no USA. This can never be repaid. The two countries are virtually inseperable, politicaly, economiccaly, and in other ways. Despite what our current president seems to think, there is a middle of the road. The world is not black and white, and just because someone, or someplaces shade of grey does not match our own does not make them wrong. No one (nor any oneplace) is always right or perfect. End of story. All this said, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else besides the good ol' US of A. (Not for very long anyways, might be interesting to try for a couple months)


Actually, all they did to help us was the battle of yorktown and give us supplies, but meh.

And another thing, we nearly went to WAR with them around 30 years later.

But i agree there is somesort of a special alliance thing, and that jsut because they dont agree with us doesnt make them enemies.

I just dont like france :p. Why? Well, i dont know. Its just theres something with french people. Its kinda like how Gigatron hates America :D

Nor have we won to many wars without France, I'm not saying they were much help, butt it true. Anyone who thinks we could've taken on Hitler without every piece of help we could get is smoking something. And despite the country being occupied the french army was still active. But putting everything else aside, we (the US) will forever be indebted to france. Without Frances aid there would be no USA. This can never be repaid. The two countries are virtually inseperable, politicaly, economiccaly, and in other ways. Despite what our current president seems to think, there is a middle of the road. The world is not black and white, and just because someone, or someplaces shade of grey does not match our own does not make them wrong. No one (nor any oneplace) is always right or perfect. End of story. All this said, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else besides the good ol' US of A. (Not for very long anyways, might be interesting to try for a couple months)

Correct me if I'm wrong here but we won by my count, had a draw in 1812 (no France), Won the Mexican war (no France), the Civil War (no france) The Spanish American War (no France there either), and Panama (no France there either)! That is roughly Four wars won with one draw! All without France. The only war they helped us win was the Revolutionary War and the 1st Gulf War and WWI! Three Wars there. In WWII, they were conquered and were liberated by Canada, USA, England, Chechoslovakia, and Polish Soldiers.

Now as for France and the US being linked, yea we are linked but they do owe us a debt of gratitude in return for bailing them out of WWI and WWII. We repaid our debt or haven't you forgotten the WWI American General quote, "Lafayette we are here"! We repaid our debt but they have not repaid theirs.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but we won by my count, had a draw in 1812 (no France), Won the Mexican war (no France), the Civil War (no france) The Spanish American War (no France there either), and Panama (no France there either)! That is roughly Four wars won with one draw! All without France. The only war they helped us win was the Revolutionary War and the 1st Gulf War and WWI! Three Wars there. In WWII, they were conquered and were liberated by Canada, USA, England, Chechoslovakia, and Polish Soldiers.

Now as for France and the US being linked, yea we are linked but they do owe us a debt of gratitude in return for bailing them out of WWI and WWII. We repaid our debt or haven't you forgotten the WWI American General quote, "Lafayette we are here"! We repaid our debt but they have not repaid theirs.
I see, really, nothing wrong with France looking out for their perceived best interest in the Iraq deal. My ONLY problem, with them, as well as Germany, Russia, etc, is their problem with US looking after our own best interest.
Russia I expect will change some in the aftermath of the school terrorism, they have finally themselves woken up to what the real situation is with a people bent on murder for murder's sake. It is interesting that in polls taken since the terror attack in the school, the majority of Russians polled, preferred Bush's method to their governments old method, and see Islamic fundamentalism as a world threat now. I hope it will not take the same in Germany and France.

Me for left (I'm surprised nobody mentioned me yet... am I just too logical in presenting my arguments)

Whoever that guy was who made a thread about how awful it was that gay marriage was coming to Multnomah County (I'm pretty sure his name started with an R) for right

Lunatic Goofballs for just crazy.

However, to get back to fundamentals, what you are claiming as a lesson from primitive culture and the ascent of the agrarian heirarchical societies seems to be the old might is right argument. The hunter-gatherers fucked up and died or were subsumed into the Ur-cities and thus were shown to be 'wrong' in some kind of moral sense. To take this as a be-all-and-end-all argument against anarchism is to make the possibly mistaken assumption that there can be only one kind of non-heirarchical culture, and that it can be mapped to the hunter-gatherers' culture and that it was fundamental to their passing, but this is clearly the case. True, there are anarcho-primitivists who advocate a return to pre-agrarian culture and a tribal organisation, but these types are very much the minority within the anarchist movement, and are heavily outnumbered by those who are continuing to explore (in my opinion) more realistic ways of tackling the problems of C21st century global capitalism and the heirarchies with which it is inextricable.

In summary: the passing of one particular way of life, which was in itself based upon heirarchy when confronted with another heirarchical way of life somewhere between 7 and 10 thousand years ago, does not in itself consign anarchist thought to the dustbin of history.


You are making the debut of "might makes right."
I wasnt making a moral point, and I do not consider anarchists immoral because I do not believe they know that they are mistaken.

I suggest you give "Guns, Germs, and Steel" a read, i believe the author is Jared Diamond. It doesnt take a position regarding anarchism vs. 'statism' (read: reality) but it does give a great many examples of humanity's avarice for power. If i'm not mistaken in won a pulitzer, though I may be.

Yes, but I'm the official crazy liberial. You are a traitor to the cause. By supporting anarchists you are supporting libertarinism and guns.


No .... because a true liberal would never turn his/her back on anyone ... we are all born of nature, just some folks need reprogramming.

Liberalism embraces social programs to protect the least fortunate in society and help them escape the cycle of poverty.
This requires a strong central govenrment to regulate the distribution of wealth.
This is entirely against the beliefs of 'anarchists.'

Anarchy= the lack of government.
Somalia=has no government.

See the resemblance?
Somalia has various warlords who act like dictators to their followers, so it is a form of government(s).

Well, I'm glad my name isn't in this thread.

Liberalism embraces social programs to protect the least fortunate in society and help them escape the cycle of poverty.
This requires a strong central govenrment to regulate the distribution of wealth.
This is entirely against the beliefs of 'anarchists.'
I keep hearing about anarcho-socialists though. But yes...Libertarians are probably the closest thing to anarchists in modern times (besides anarchists themselves), which is kind of strange because Libertarians really aren't "left" or "right" in the modern sense.

Lets face it, whether you're right, left, center, other, if you're not some what partisan, you don't really care. If you don't stand for some thing, you'll fall for any thing. ;)

No .... because a true liberal would never turn his/her back on anyone ... we are all born of nature, just some folks need reprogramming.

Yes send them to the democratic parties ministry of love. Orwellian Liberialism.