NationStates Jolt Archive

Michael Moore:
Hero who should be stuffed after he dies and put in the Smithsonian?
Or evil Communist pig who should be deported or shot or both?

no middle ground? Way to leave out the Canadian perspective :P You always have to have a middle of the road, fence setting, compromising, inoffensive, apologetic answer if you want any Canadian to give a proper response ;)

He's a very talented film-maker, whether you like him or not. You have to give him that much credit. I'd lie in my films and distort half-truths if I got the money he did for it.

no middle ground? Way to leave out the Canadian perspective :P You always have to have a middle of the road, fence setting, compromising, inoffensive, apologetic answer if you want any Canadian to give a proper response ;)
Ideologues don't compromise. If you don't like Michael Moore and hate the people he hates, then you are a regressive redneck retrograde brute. :mp5:

I'll go with the 'Evil Communist Pig who should be put on a weight-loss program so he sounds less hypocritical when he complains about Americans being fat" option.

He makes porn for liberals. You kinda feel bad you like it so much, but it really gets you off.

Oo! I know!

Michael Moore: finished in eleven days. ;)

Gee, I can't wait until Alansyists invades this thread. *hint* *hint*

no middle ground? Way to leave out the Canadian perspective :P You always have to have a middle of the road, fence setting, compromising, inoffensive, apologetic answer if you want any Canadian to give a proper response ;)


Funny, especially how in Canada he has charges pending against him for election tampering....

He makes enough good points to not need to subsidise it with crap like he does. He makes it too easy for conservitives to ignore his relentless logic and truth and focus on the crap he fills it up with.

I do like the man. He does stand up for people who don't get a say like those Mexicans he helped to stay in America, after the manager of the hotel they were working at tried to get them deported after they formed a union. Also he did have an influential part in helping getting fire arm sales at K-Mart banned. He does address social issues such as what it's like to be a black man in New York avoiding the police because they'll shoot you if you have a wallet. And Bush is a fictious president in my view. He lost by 300 votes but if you whine and complain long enough you will eventually get in to the White House. I like him but I can see where certain people are coming from.

He makes enough good points to not need to subsidise it with crap like he does. He makes it too easy for conservitives to ignore his relentless logic and truth and focus on the crap he fills it up with.

Subsidize? Does that have a different meaning in Europe than it does here? ;)

Seriously though, if there's any logic and/or truth to anything he's ever done, I sure haven't seen it. (Or read it if you mean F9/11) :p

Subsidize? Does that have a different meaning in Europe than it does here? ;)

Seriously though, if there's any logic and/or truth to anything he's ever done, I sure haven't seen it. (Or read it if you mean F9/11) :p

I'm not from Europe for one. I meant supliment, but bleh thats not important, you probably could have figured that out. My bad.

So can you tell me what the main point made in Bowling for Collumbine (sp?) was?

I do like the man. He does stand up for people who don't get a say like those Mexicans he helped to stay in America, after the manager of the hotel they were working at tried to get them deported after they formed a union. Also he did have an influential part in helping getting fire arm sales at K-Mart banned. He does address social issues such as what it's like to be a black man in New York avoiding the police because they'll shoot you if you have a wallet. And Bush is a fictious president in my view. He lost by 300 votes but if you whine and complain long enough you will eventually get in to the White House. I like him but I can see where certain people are coming from.

300 votes? Explain please. The hand recounts done by a Florida newspaper after the election (of all ballots in all counties) show Bush winning by 400+ votes.. Also, who exactly did the whining and complaining for 36 days after Nov. 7, 2000? If I recall, it came mostly from the Gore side, including filing the lawsuits, calling in Mayor Daly's friends and Jesse Jackson (not one claim of black "disenfranchisement" has ever been proved). ;)

300 votes? Explain please. The hand recounts done by a Florida newspaper after the election (of all ballots in all counties) show Bush winning by 400+ votes.. Also, who exactly did the whining and complaining for 36 days after Nov. 7, 2000? If I recall, it came mostly from the Gore side, including filing the lawsuits, calling in Mayor Daly's friends and Jesse Jackson (not one claim of black "disenfranchisement" has ever been proved). ;)

I'm not entirely sure on the exact figures but a whole lot of votes should have been thrown out because half of them didn't have the proper information, and half of them had no dates of when they actually voted. The whining I was referring to was the constant calling of a recount from the Bush side.

I'm not from Europe for one. I meant supliment, but bleh thats not important, you probably could have figured that out. My bad.

So can you tell me what the main point made in Bowling for Collumbine (sp?) was?

It's been several years, but I believe the point was that we're driven to purchase weapons for defense by an irrational fear of violent crime, perpetuated by skewed media reporting and a culture of violence/fear. Nothing I hadn't heard a few hundred times, but his case was pretty weak, especially when dealing with such a rich subject. Walking around Commerce to prove you won't be shot in a black neighborhood, targeting Wal-Mart (or whichever one it was) for selling ammunition which (could be) used in assault weapons, and going off on the NRA (presumably for promoting gun culture, though he never made the connection himself) were all strategies that, however colorful, didn't make the case..

I'm not entirely sure on the exact figures but a whole lot of votes should have been thrown out because half of them didn't have the proper information, and half of them had no dates of when they actually voted. The whining I was referring to was the constant calling of a recount from the Bush side.

Bush called for a recount? That's news to me. He was the one originally declared the winner, after all. Ultimately, the SCOTUS ruled that Gore's requests for recounts in only certain counties using differing standards was unconstitutional, since different voters were being treated differently in different parts of the state.. If it were up to Bush alone, he would've looked at his original 537 vote victory on Nov. 8th and said "thanks, that'll do!"

There's always a happy medium.

We could shoot him then stuff him. :D

I'll go on record right now saying, very plainly, I hate Michael Moore. I agree he should be shot, but I think stuffing him first would be even better...

I have hated him since before the columbine days, before politics became his forte. His logic is flawed and his "facts" are, for the most part, completely false. Those that do have a shred of credibility are completely spun until they fit his agenda, usually at the cost of truth.

For example, he says his basis for "Roger and Me" was how the closing of the auto plant destroyed Flint. He says that this was the very plant he worked in and then used this fact to put forward the "little guy vs big business" persona that would carry in all his movies.

However, the naked fact is that he worked in the plant for less than a week. He then quit due to the stresses of work and left to start making movies. (As a side note, I don't know many "little guys" who own nearly 3 million dollars in real estate.)

Other times, he takes a series of numbers and turns them around to fit his agenda. He will disregard related statistics and ignore important factors. Example, he says how it's incorrect to think that gun violence is high in the US because we buy more guns than others. He mentions how Canada has a higher gun/population rate than the US. What he fails to mention is how there are roughly 12 million people living in Canada, THERE ARE 9 MILLION LIVING IN THE GREATER NEW YORK METROPOLITAN AREA. Take NY and LA and there are more people than in Canada! Of course the numbers will be higher with higher population densities. Yet it's easier for Moore to present only one side of the debate. Thats the side that allows him to charge thousands in speaking fees...

A good telling point about the man. The paralyzed high school kid he proudly paraded around in Bowling for Columbine, the one he used as a major selling point, just recently came forward and said how Moore hasn't responded to anything the boy has sent since.Any attempt at communication has gone unanswered. The man defends the oppressed? Right, only till someone hands him a friggin award. THAT seems to be a HUGE character tell about Moore.

I think the man is a genius when it comes to films, an enterprise traditionally opposed to reality, and he is a spin wizard. Had Moore been making films at the time, Pearl Harbor would have probably been the United States fault. That being said, I would love to see him stuffed with barbed wire, shot a few times in the extremities and sent to the Australian outback, covered with honey and loosely tied to an anthill...

Deja-vu? I could have sworn that this thread was created a few weeks ago with exactly the same question.

Maybe, but I take every chance I get to knock Moore. With as big a target as his ego, I just can't help it...
Michael Moore :mp5:

Michael Moore is a good film maker. He has an interesting style and can make a film watchable and entertaining.

Credible? Not a chance. F-9/11 and Bowling for Columbine have been de-bunked more times than a Bushism has occurred.

However, he is not an idiot. He is a man with an agenda who has happened to persuade a lot of dumb kids and otherwise politically naive folks (my 17 year old cousin and her friends were discussing the election. When one girl brought up her support for bush, another protested loudly "havent you seen fahrenheit 9/11?!" haha).

My strong dislike for him comes in the fact that his agenda gives him reason to cut corners on facts, omit certain details and present selective info to make his point stronger (at the expense of destroying truth).

He is not an idiot, but he is a douchebag.

Other times, he takes a series of numbers and turns them around to fit his agenda. He will disregard related statistics and ignore important factors. Example, he says how it's incorrect to think that gun violence is high in the US because we buy more guns than others. He mentions how Canada has a higher gun/population rate than the US. What he fails to mention is how there are roughly 12 million people living in Canada, THERE ARE 9 MILLION LIVING IN THE GREATER NEW YORK METROPOLITAN AREA. Take NY and LA and there are more people than in Canada!

A couple of points to correct you on:

Canada's population is about thirty million (it was twelve probably, 30-50 years ago), and also, we have a lower violent and gun crime rate in this country PER CAPITA. The populations do not matter with per capita.

The rate in the US is 0.03 per 100,000 people, the rate in Canada is 0.01. Canada does have a lower violent and gun crime rate than America, even if you do factor in the population difference.

300 votes? Explain please. The hand recounts done by a Florida newspaper after the election (of all ballots in all counties) show Bush winning by 400+ votes.. Also, who exactly did the whining and complaining for 36 days after Nov. 7, 2000? If I recall, it came mostly from the Gore side, including filing the lawsuits, calling in Mayor Daly's friends and Jesse Jackson (not one claim of black "disenfranchisement" has ever been proved). ;)

Gore lost under the recount he asked for, but won in others. In different scenarios of whichever ballots were counted, Gore won and lost. Different combinations of "absentee ballot + military ballot" or "nonresident ballot + whatever other ballot" led to different results.

Gore lost under the recount he asked for, but won in others. In different scenarios of whichever ballots were counted, Gore won and lost. Different combinations of "absentee ballot + military ballot" or "nonresident ballot + whatever other ballot" led to different results.

Allowing military/absentee ballots = following the law.

Name one where Gore won.. just one.

Allowing military/absentee ballots = following the law.

Name one where Gore won.. just one.

Actually, the recounts ended up allowing military/absentee ballots that were postmarked too late to be valid. But those people voted anyway, so I really don't have a problem with their vote counting. I just wish the other side had been as magnanimous.

The New York Times ran a big article on how Gore would have won if all the votes had been recounted (which was never proposed by Gore, so it's kinda moot anyway.)

Ah well.

Tayricht, Thats my whole point. Canada has around the same amount of people as Califonia then. You have lower gun violence rates because you have lower people. Same as if I take the gun violence rate versus the gun owersship rate versus the population figure of a state like montana and put that up against a state like new jersey.

Again, he spins these numbers to fit his agenda. The FBI records only around 8,000 homicides per year in 1999 to 2001. Moore comes up with over 11,000. Where he gets this number is from the CDCs National Center for Health Statistics. The porblem? That includes ALL gun homicide, like self-defense and police. I'm sure Moore would love to tell the police they aren't allowed to shoot violet felons because it makes the U.S. look bad.

The U.S. was ranked around 23rd in the world for homicide. Some of the countries outranking the U.S.? How about the Ukraine, Estonia, South Africa and Poland? I would love to ask Michael Moore if he even knows where Estonia is...

And before anyone jumps on me saying I'm just being a "typical" American and picking on Canada, I'll just say that I have nothing against Canada. It seems pretty from pictures I've seen and I've been enjoying the whisky for many, many years... :D

Actually, the recounts ended up allowing military/absentee ballots that were postmarked too late to be valid. But those people voted anyway, so I really don't have a problem with their vote counting. I just wish the other side had been as magnanimous.

The New York Times ran a big article on how Gore would have won if all the votes had been recounted (which was never proposed by Gore, so it's kinda moot anyway.)

Ah well.


The problem with that is of course if you have a total recount of the state, or re-vote, you have an estimated 10-12,000 votes for the Republicans in the panhandle that never voted because the state was called an hour early for them. 10-12,000 of course comes from the Republicans, so it probably an overestimation. But the fact remains, its unclear who would have won in a recount and revote statewide. Regardless, in the full recounts that did occur, Bush did win, and is President, so get over it.