NationStates Jolt Archive

What makes murder a sin? Is it the thinking about murder that is wrong, being at the murder scene, or do you actually have to kill someone in cold blood yourself?

There are lots of people I would love to knock off, but the wacky moralists out there continue to tell me that it's wrong, that their God says it's wrong. I think that means if I don't believe in their God or their Bible, I shouldn't have to abide by their ridiculous religiously-based laws. Yet they continue to impose their beliefs upon me.


I have to admit I'm sort of biased, since I'm kind of partial to murder, but is there anyone else who is sick of being told what to do by religious fanatics? :headbang:

What makes murder a sin? Is it the thinking about murder that is wrong, being at the murder scene, or do you actually have to kill someone in cold blood yourself?

There are lots of people I would love to knock off, but the wacky moralists out there continue to tell me that it's wrong, that their God says it's wrong. I think that means if I don't believe in their God or their Bible, I shouldn't have to abide by their ridiculous religiously-based laws. Yet they continue to impose their beliefs upon me.


I have to admit I'm sort of biased, since I'm kind of partial to murder, but is there anyone else who is sick of being told what to do by religious fanatics? :headbang:
thinking about murder is not wrong, as you are not harming anyone. committing murder is wrong because you are infringing upon another human being's rights. religion is not the basis for ethical concerns about murder; in fact, if you believe in many religions, murder is a kindness because you are sending your victim to spend paradise with God. if you have concerns about the morality of murder then you need not waste your time worrying about what religious "moralists" have to say on the topic.

Murder is generally viewed as "wrong" because it is detrimental to the one being murdered and those who know the victim. It's not biblical by any means... One can logically deduce that murder goes against the good of all parties involved except in some cases the killer and those who may benefit indirectly from the killer.

In my history class today, we had a nice discussion on human, natural, eternal, and divine laws.

By use of reason, we can denounce murder - and since human law is based off of reason, we may consider murder to go against human law.

Is this a farce of the homosexuality debates?

Human law is rarely based on reason. It is usually based on the emotions and preferences of whatever person or group happens to be strongest at the time.

There are lots of people I would love to knock off, but the wacky moralists out there continue to tell me that it's wrong, that their God says it's wrong. I think that means if I don't believe in their God or their Bible, I shouldn't have to abide by their ridiculous religiously-based laws. Yet they continue to impose their beliefs upon me.

You don't have any other moral codes than religious ones? You think that people who don't believe in anything don't have any morality? Morality is not a religious but a cultural thing.

Is this a farce of the homosexuality debates?

Human law is rarely based on reason. It is usually based on the emotions and preferences of whatever person or group happens to be strongest at the time.
The thinkers of the Enlightenment believed it should be based upon reason, NOT emotions or preferences.

THe real reason why killing is considered wrong is because all those moralists know deep down if murder was legal, they'd be dead in a heartbeat--not only because they couldn't use a gun any better than their limp dilznicks, but because they would be the first the rest of us would off. If murder was legal, no one would screw with each other without knowing it might have consequences. The country would be rid of jerks, hypocrites, and scumbags. Plus, no one would cheat on their spouse, and children would respect their parents (at least until they learn about arsenic, anyway).

THe real reason why killing is considered wrong is because all those moralists know deep down if murder was legal, they'd be dead in a heartbeat--not only because they couldn't use a gun any better than their limp dilznicks, but because they would be the first the rest of us would off. If murder was legal, no one would screw with each other without knowing it might have consequences. The country would be rid of jerks, hypocrites, and scumbags. Plus, no one would cheat on their spouse, and children would respect their parents (at least until they learn about arsenic, anyway).

I think Aeschylus in his Oresteia covered best why blood-revenge doesn't work... It basically follows the idea that an eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth would leave us all blind and toothless.

In my history class today, we had a nice discussion on human, natural, eternal, and divine laws.

By use of reason, we can denounce murder - and since human law is based off of reason, we may consider murder to go against human law.

By "human, natural, eternal and divine laws", are you specifically talking about natural moral law (adopted by Thomas Aquinas to suit the Roman Catholic Church)? I seem to remember it being said that there is eternal law, revealed in divine law, etc.

Natural moral law is, after all, exclusively religious.

The thinkers of the Enlightenment believed it should be based upon reason, NOT emotions or preferences.

What should be and what are two totally different things.

It would be nice if law was based on reason. It would also be nice if nobody was ever hungry, nobody ever got sick, and there was not war and no hate.

But sadly, ideals and reality are not the same.

You don't have any other moral codes than religious ones? You think that people who don't believe in anything don't have any morality? Morality is not a religious but a cultural thing.

Yes there are different moral codes, that aren't religioous, but a moral code not based on an absolute of some sort, is nothing more than a person's opinion. And opinions vary.

By what absolute do we judge it is wrong to take a human life? What intrinsic, absolute value does a human life have?

I'm pretty sure that the sin of murder occurs at the moment you actually decide to go commit the murder, regardless of whether you succeed, or even whether you change your mind later and thus never make the attempt. However, there are some people who'd probably say that the sin occurs at the moment you want to commit murder, regardless of whether you actually decide to do so. I, on the other hand, believe that a sin must be something a person has the opportunity to choose not to do, and I don't think a person has a choice of whether or not to want something, only whether or not to do (or plan to do) it.

As for non-religious reasons not to commit murder... I think it has aspects of a social contract, sort of "I won't try to kill you, based on the assumption that you won't try to kill me." The same goes for things like assault and larceny. If you can find a group of people who are comfortable with the idea that any of them is allowed to kill any other one of them at any time for any or no reason, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that from a secular point of view. But I wouldn't want to live in a society like that. (Ironically, my nation here has exactly that kind of society...)

Yes there are different moral codes, that aren't religioous, but a moral code not based on an absolute of some sort, is nothing more than a person's opinion. And opinions vary.

By what absolute do we judge it is wrong to take a human life? What intrinsic, absolute value does a human life have?
Alright now ou turned the question from feligious one to philosophy one. I've had this conversation many times already and as it's Friday night, I'm not focused enough to start it again. (some other time, yes please) But very shortly, there are no absolute values. (IMO) Morality, values, ethics, all related to culture you live in.

What makes murder a sin? Is it the thinking about murder that is wrong, being at the murder scene, or do you actually have to kill someone in cold blood yourself?

according to JESUS, if you think about it seriously, it is the same SIN as committing the actual murder. something to consider, you muderer!!

really

for something to be a SIN, you have to belong to a religious denomination that believes in sin and defines <whatever> as a sin. if you dont like their concept of sin, find a different denomination.

peoples religious beliefs should be utterly seperate from society's laws on the same topic. thus the catholic church doesnt allow divorce but the government does.

This is a joke right?

If it is, just making sure...and if it isn't, well, you might want to seek professional help.

The Norse (before Christianity came to them) believed that murder was you killed someone and hid the body and manslaughter was that you killed the person and admitted to killing him / her.

In addition I don't think you have to be a fanatic about religion to agree that most of the 10 Commandments are generally a good way to live (Except the first three if you aren't Christian / Jewish).

What makes murder a sin? Is it the thinking about murder that is wrong, being at the murder scene, or do you actually have to kill someone in cold blood yourself?

There are lots of people I would love to knock off, but the wacky moralists out there continue to tell me that it's wrong, that their God says it's wrong. I think that means if I don't believe in their God or their Bible, I shouldn't have to abide by their ridiculous religiously-based laws. Yet they continue to impose their beliefs upon me.


I have to admit I'm sort of biased, since I'm kind of partial to murder, but is there anyone else who is sick of being told what to do by religious fanatics? :headbang:

Actually, from what I have observed, only non-governmentally sanctioned killing is a sin. Most churches will tell you that if your governmetn tells you to drop bombs on a civilian population and then you cold-bloodily plan and carry through that order, then it is A-OK with God.

What makes murder a sin? Is it the thinking about murder that is wrong, being at the murder scene, or do you actually have to kill someone in cold blood yourself?

There are lots of people I would love to knock off, but the wacky moralists out there continue to tell me that it's wrong, that their God says it's wrong. I think that means if I don't believe in their God or their Bible, I shouldn't have to abide by their ridiculous religiously-based laws. Yet they continue to impose their beliefs upon me.


I have to admit I'm sort of biased, since I'm kind of partial to murder, but is there anyone else who is sick of being told what to do by religious fanatics? :headbang:



tell me this. Lets assume your not suisidly, and you dont want to die on a count of liking death. Would you like to be killed, for no reason, and have no punishment for the murderer? if u answered yes, youre a liar and should rot in hell. and if u fall back on you bag of shit augument that im a fucking "religious fanatic" fuck you. I am not religis, so go die.


On a side note, the only thing im really sick of is haveing idiots like you tell me murder is ok.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)



Because god hates women.

murder is not wrong? is that what you are saying? so every serial killer and other murderer AND TERRORIST should be released from prison and set loose upon the rest of us?! how would you feel if one of your family members OR YOU was murdered?! also along this point what about rapists? let me guess-they need it and cant get it so they can do it with anyone with or against that person's will?! what the hell is wrong with you? i am catholic and lost an uncle in the Towers so you can see my bias. the only murder that should even be thought about being tolerated is in war between countries, not people. i go by naval snipers because i believe that by killing one combatant you save more of your own which is also why i support the decision to a-bomb japan because it would have saved at least 2 million losses combined in WWII

Aih. Just follow the rules of

"Don't do to others, unless you want it done unto you".

Murder is a sin yes, and i do agree that the religious people need to stop pushing their beliefs on people that do not agree with them, it’s basically them not being able to handle that we don’t believe, so they push it on us, but not many non believers push their beliefs on them. I do agree with you on that, but I do not think people that don’t believe shouldn’t abide by the laws, if that were the way, every murderer would say they don’t believe and get away with it. I think its good murder is against the law, I like to be able to go to the store and know that its not likely that someone’s going to stab or choke me with a dinner roll, and if that happens I know that there will be consequences to for their actions. If you say you like to have murder around, then yes, you will be able to kill whom you like, but your always going to be watching your back, you wont have the freedom to sit on the computer and make threads like this all you want, because you’ve got to watch out for stabby Joe that lives down the street.

what god? i mean we all go by what everyone else says....i wouldn't mind killing a few people :sniper: i mean all our our thoughts come from other thing. we are a species of hyppocrites. and what makes us any better then other animals? the fact is that we are at that, animals. animals kill each other all the time. and in their societies it is seen as a good ability. we need to rethink our ideas people.... :headbang:

Well animals kill to either protect themselves, or for food. We dont kill people for food, the taste is too grainy and stringy, not good meat, but we do kill for self defence, and that is not considered wrong. You have to listen to what you said, and the topic. Yes animals kill, but they kill for reasons of survival, people kill because of anger and greed, that is not huamn instinct, that just what its become as we dont get to let it out, we kill animals for food, and we kill eachother for self protection, but the people tha kill just to kill, well they are locked up and eventually killed for the protection of the lands, killing is wrong, but not because of religious crap. Now im not saying religion is crap, im just tired of hearing it pushon on people that dont beleive...im sure a lot of people will agree.