NationStates Jolt Archive

Reading the New York Times as I always do, I came across this article about a current social phenom in Japan. I thought it might prove interesting and useful for discussion.

Strangers in Life Join Hands in Death as the Web Becomes a Tool for Suicide in Japan
By JAMES BROOKE

TOKYO, Oct. 17 - On Sept. 22, a 34-year-old mother of two posted an Internet notice looking for companions for a group suicide. On Oct. 5, the police found her and three other women barely alive; they were sealing themselves into a tent with a burning charcoal stove, intending to succumb to carbon monoxide. The next day, the woman posted a second recruiting notice on a Web site, saying, "I know the method and the process because I have an experience of failing to commit suicide."

By Monday night, her notice had drawn six volunteers from all over Japan. Four were 20-years-olds, including a university student from Aomori, 350 miles north of Tokyo; a part-time worker from Osaka, 250 miles to the west; and an unemployed woman from Saga, 600 miles west.

Strangers in life, the seven found a bond in death. Working methodically, they parked a rented van at dusk on a mountain park road west of Tokyo, wrote an e-mail message with their precise location and programmed a cellphone to send it after they were dead. They sealed the van from the inside, took sleeping pills, lit charcoal braziers, and tied their wrists and torsos together.

Several miles away, at the same time, the same method of self-asphyxiation was taking the lives of two women in their 20's. One had taken part in the failed attempt a week earlier with the organizer of the seven in the van. Apparently part of the same group, the two in the car had not traveled with the others in the van, probably because of Japan's strict seat-belt laws. The police found the victims inside the two vehicles on Tuesday morning.

What seems to have brought all nine together - just long enough to kill themselves - are "suicide sites" on the Internet.

For Japanese with high-speed Internet access, which a majority of homes now have, this suicide subculture is just a few key strokes away. On a recent day, typing the Japanese words for "suicide" and "manual" into the Japanese version of the Google search engine yielded 29,761 citations. Suicide sites have names like "Underground Suicide" and "Deadline.''

"Are you thinking of killing yourself?" asks one site as two cartoon skeletons bob up and down mocking an image of the Virgin Mary. Before blood red colors drip over the macabre scene, the site continues, "If you are sure, I will take you there."

Deeper in the site, there lies a slide show of "proper" places to commit suicide. Favored spots - online and in reality - are forests with views of Mt. Fuji, a revered national symbol.

Another section evaluates 10 methods of committing suicide, rating them for "pain," "chance of success" and "annoyance to other people." Unlike the excruciating pain of the disemboweling rite of the ancient samurai, hara-kiri, today's suicidal youth seem to prefer drifting off. Jumping in front of commuter trains, some sites note, can leave a family facing a railroad company bill of up to $65,000 in cleanup costs.

In chat rooms, morbid thoughts reign.

"Whoever wants to die, should die," begins one typically bleak posting. "Whoever wants to live, should live." Undoubtedly, much of the Internet traffic is confined to depressed people with a taste for the macabre. Strong, morbid undercurrents churn through Japanese society. A suicide manual became a bestseller in the late 1990's and a movie about high school suicide, "Suicide Club," became a minor hit last year.

But about once a month since January 2002, Japan has recorded a group suicide, successful or attempted, where the participants had linked up on the Internet.

Last year's toll of 34 Internet-related suicides was only a tiny fraction of 34,427 suicides recorded in Japan, a high rate relative to Western countries, but there are disturbing trends. For one, most Japanese suicide victims are middle-aged or elderly men. But the Internet suicide victims tend to be young adults, largely people in their 20's.

Free speech laws leave the police largely powerless to curb the sites. But psychiatrists and social workers are starting to speak out.

"Here is the convenience of the Internet: Anyone who wants to die can just sign on to such a site," Mafumi Usui, a professor of sociopsychology at Niigata Seiryo University, said in an interview. "If you are a real friend in a real life, you know your friend's family, job and life, and can stop him if he tries to kill himself. But on the Web site, these people bond to each other only on the point of committing suicide. They don't have any tools to stop others from dying."

Not only are suicidal people feeding off each other, but lonely people are joining a group, a social unit that often is paramount in Japan. Professor Usui added, "If you try to stop it, it means that you are getting out of the group."

With Japan an affluent society, young people are often without the overriding goals that drove their grandparents to fight World War II, and their parents to rebuild the devastated country afterward. Last year, almost one third of 100 Japanese teenagers polled by Aera, a magazine aimed at young adults, said they had considered suicide, largely for what they themselves acknowledged as "trivial reasons."

"When they come across a minor trouble, they get distressed," said Dr. Harufusa Higano, a psychiatrist who directs a clinic here. Recalling one young woman who had attempted suicide by cutting her wrists, he said: "She told me, 'I could not get a Gucci handbag and had to end up with a Japan-made. I want to die.' "

Last week's group suicide pact, apparently the largest in modern Japan, has rapidly jumped from somber national television coverage to the Internet underworld and BBS's, or bulletin boards.

Next, a larger group will try, "to make a record," Dr. Higano said. "That was actually written on a Web site BBS I found yesterday."

Well? I'll post my own thoughts later. Right now, I have college chem to cram for.

That's incredibly creepy. Makes me tempted to look for these sites, sign on and try to help some of these kids... except, oh wait, I don't speak Japanese, they probably wouldn't appreciate me butting in, and I'm not any kind of psychiatrist.

Good luck on your chem test.

- snip - Last year, almost one third of 100 Japanese teenagers polled by Aera, a magazine aimed at young adults, said they had considered suicide, largely for what they themselves acknowledged as "trivial reasons."

"When they come across a minor trouble, they get distressed," said Dr. Harufusa Higano, a psychiatrist who directs a clinic here. Recalling one young woman who had attempted suicide by cutting her wrists, he said: "She told me, 'I could not get a Gucci handbag and had to end up with a Japan-made. I want to die.' "

Last week's group suicide pact, apparently the largest in modern Japan, has rapidly jumped from somber national television coverage to the Internet underworld and BBS's, or bulletin boards.

Next, a larger group will try, "to make a record," Dr. Higano said. "That was actually written on a Web site BBS I found yesterday."

- snip -
Talk about self absorbed, consumer centeric, culturally screwed up me firsters. Well, they sure have the Americans beat on this one! Here is an article from AsiaTimes.com http://www.atimes.com/japan-econ/AH04Dh01.html

There's a creepy horror movie from Japan that has something similar in it. Ppl go to a website, get obsessed with it, then kill themselves.
So: Is life imitating art or vice versa?

Japan has had a REALLLLLY big problem with suicide. I mean really, really big. There's been some measures to help fight against it, but it's only slimming the tides.

Love the internet.

There's a creepy horror movie from Japan that has something similar in it. Ppl go to a website, get obsessed with it, then kill themselves.
So: Is life imitating art or vice versa?
Yes, seen it. These events sounded very familiar. The movie is called Suicide Club:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312843/

I think part of the problem might be that both in China and Japan, children are the new emperors who get everything they want. Poor parents want their children to become rich and famous so they could look after their parents when they have grown up. The pressure is too much for many children.

Yes, seen it. These events sounded very familiar. The movie is called Suicide Club:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312843/

I think part of the problem might be that both in China and Japan, children are the new emperors who get everything they want. Poor parents want their children to become rich and famous so they could look after their parents when they have grown up. The pressure is too much for many children.

One of the big problems is simply the over industrialization. These kids are raised and taught that if they study hard and concentrate only on schoolwork, they'll get an office job that'll last them their life. A very, very high majority of suicide in teenages and such are because they arn't highered right after their done with school.

Same with buisnessmen. Many of those suicides occur because they're laid off, and, after working in the same company for so many years, feel they have nothing left.

The buisness world is what's leading the minds and hearts of many people there, and with the hiccup to their economy, things are looking grim. Ironically, they still have an extremily strong economy, but in a case where capitilism is glorified to this extent, even the smallest dips can have major reprecussions.

Secondly, a lot of people there now also feel very disillusioned and betrayed in a sense; even if they don't want to go straight to buisness, nearly all families push heavily on that. These kids are then usually more suspectible to things like cults, which promise them the self worth and spirituality the buisness world does not. This can lead to more dangerous paths like the subway attack.

Having started living in Asia (HK to be exact) I can readily agree with your comments about the work the kids are expected to do. I'm teaching in a private school and we're open until 9pm Monday to Saturday (Not allowed to open on Sunday which is the only reason we're not). I'm sometimes teaching 6-7yr olds at 8pm at night. It's crazy. I was in bed by then when I was that age. I ask the teenagers what did they do at the weekend, and nearly always get: "Studied", "Did my Homework", "Went to music practise" "Went shopping", or "Played computer games". That's it (in that order). They have no social life whatsoever.
All they do is study. Even 8 and 9 yr olds have 1 and 2 hour long exams regularly. I've got one student (she's 13) whose mother has entered her in a city-wide English Poetry recital that's being held next month. She's coming 3 times a week to practise her english. Her mother turned up for the first lesson and apologised that she had signed up so late, but her daughter was spending the previous few weeks studying for her piano recital and now that that's over, she can only come 3 ties a week because she has other study on the other days she has to go to.
I had another one come in for the same Poetry competition who's only 5 and the first lesson the mother sat in with her because the girl was sick! I told the mother they could go home, but she insisted we had to do the lesson and kept telling her daughter off every time she mis-pronounced a word.
All I could see was two potential suicides waiting to happen.
A study came out last week here that found that 59% of school children have never felt the grass between their toes. They've NEVER been out into the bush. Coming from NZ, I find it extremely bizarre, sad and worrying (because how can we expect them to develop an environmental conscious if they've never seen a natural enviornment?).
Still, the money's good. So I'm not too concerned.

A bit of a non-story really.

I'm just surprised it's taken this long for it to be reported.

Talk about self absorbed, consumer centeric, culturally screwed up me firsters. Well, they sure have the Americans beat on this one! Here is an article from AsiaTimes.com http://www.atimes.com/japan-econ/AH04Dh01.html
That's kind of unfair and pretty heartless - if people are screwed up, is the best thing to do laugh and point at them and walk away? I'd rather look for a way to help them...

That's kind of unfair and pretty heartless - if people are screwed up, is the best thing to do laugh and point at them and walk away? I'd rather look for a way to help them...

lol

people arent on suicide sites looking for help

well, not the help you would give them

look, some people want help, some people dont
some people are ment to live, others arent, wheather by their own doing or nature.

It'll help evolution

That's kind of unfair and pretty heartless - if people are screwed up, is the best thing to do laugh and point at them and walk away? I'd rather look for a way to help them...

But the problem is, there's no easy way to help them-the society they live in is a dangerous and abusive one.

The only way things will get better is if they change. There's far, far too much emphasis placed on all the wrong things.

lol

people arent on suicide sites looking for help

well, not the help you would give them

look, some people want help, some people dont
some people are ment to live, others arent, wheather by their own doing or nature.

It'll help evolution

No, you idiot, read the posts.

They arn't just "screwed up." They weren't meant to die.

They're being raised in an increasingly hostile enviroment. And it's hitting them hard.

No, you idiot, read the posts.

They arn't just "screwed up." They weren't meant to die.

They're being raised in an increasingly hostile enviroment. And it's hitting them hard.

im not debating that

the fact is im sure people who have decided to commit suicide (not just people who have thought about it, or are considering it, or are saying they are going to in a time of emotional crisis) are not looking for help from others in the form of, "dont kill yourself, you have lots to live for". The dont. Unless they are able to connect some reason for living in their own mind, its probably not going to happen. I dont know if Japan has institutions set up to help those at this point of "depression" (probably not the best word choice) rather than just things like "therapy" and "suicide help line" (as most of the world does not). Yes, thats bad, I agree.

BUT

yes they were meant to die. I defy you to tell me one person who has died who was not meant to. In fact, i will defy you to find one person alive today who is not meant to die

we will all die, so if someone wants to they can

And your last statement just shows how little you understand what i said about evolution. In fact, a "Hostile Environment" as you put it is where evolution would take place. Only those who are able to perform the required feats will be able to survive, passing along the necessary traits to the next generation. If you dont agree you need to re-read the basics of darwinism

ya, its depressing, ya, its kinda macabre, but thats how it is working

now, before you get on that high horse again, im not sayin its right or wrong, more of a commentary about what is achually happening.

im not debating that

the fact is im sure people who have decided to commit suicide (not just people who have thought about it, or are considering it, or are saying they are going to in a time of emotional crisis) are not looking for help from others in the form of, "dont kill yourself, you have lots to live for". The dont. Unless they are able to connect some reason for living in their own mind, its probably not going to happen. I dont know if Japan has institutions set up to help those at this point of "depression" (probably not the best word choice) rather than just things like "therapy" and "suicide help line" (as most of the world does not). Yes, thats bad, I agree.

BUT

yes they were meant to die. I defy you to tell me one person who has died who was not meant to. In fact, i will defy you to find one person alive today who is not meant to die

we will all die, so if someone wants to they can

And your last statement just shows how little you understand what i said about evolution. In fact, a "Hostile Environment" as you put it is where evolution would take place. Only those who are able to perform the required feats will be able to survive, passing along the necessary traits to the next generation. If you dont agree you need to re-read the basics of darwinism

ya, its depressing, ya, its kinda macabre, but thats how it is working

now, before you get on that high horse again, im not sayin its right or wrong, more of a commentary about what is achually happening.

Only, this isn't any sort of evolution. First of all, such an enviroment shouldn't exist in the "modern world." Secondly, it's not like people are passing on "not-killing-themselves" genes to the next generation.

Only, this isn't any sort of evolution. First of all, such an enviroment shouldn't exist in the "modern world." Secondly, it's not like people are passing on "not-killing-themselves" genes to the next generation.

sure is is, it isnt species evolution, its cultural evolution

the environment that the individuals (organisms) are living in is very harsh and demanding, due, id imagine, to a rapid change in the environment itself.

Some are able to adapt, some are not and therefore do not succeed in this environment. They either fail to achieve what the environment would determine as "success" (money, fame, education) or they have the necessary skills (adaptations) to succeed.

No, there is no suicide gene that i know of, but these traits of the parents that allowed them to succeed will be passed onto the next generation , either through genetics or tutalage. Yes the children will still be suseptable to failure and suicide, but they will have more adaptations or skills at their disposal to deal with the environment.

sure is is, it isnt species evolution, its cultural evolution

the environment that the individuals (organisms) are living in is very harsh and demanding, due, id imagine, to a rapid change in the environment itself.

Some are able to adapt, some are not and therefore do not succeed in this environment. They either fail to achieve what the environment would determine as "success" (money, fame, education) or they have the necessary skills (adaptations) to succeed.

No, there is no suicide gene that i know of, but these traits of the parents that allowed them to succeed will be passed onto the next generation , either through genetics or tutalage. Yes the children will still be suseptable to failure and suicide, but they will have more adaptations or skills at their disposal to deal with the environment.

Actually no, it's not due to any rapid changes in the enviroment. What's hapened is that more and more emphasis has been placed on the buisness world, to the point where even the slightest hiccup in the economy causes big disasters. At the same time, there is a clear lack of feeling, and this is what draws people to cults.

At the rate things are going, the generation that survives will do exactly what THEIR parents have done. To this end, there will be no evolution, and no change-rather, it's the exact opposite; everything stays the exact same.

Many japenese students that I know (most, if not all) that have come here to America tell me that the only see major flaws in the system AFTER comming here. This leads me to believe that an outside party is needed, either to influence a change or to orchestrate it.

Talk about self absorbed, consumer centeric, culturally screwed up me firsters. Well, they sure have the Americans beat on this one! Here is an article from AsiaTimes.com http://www.atimes.com/japan-econ/AH04Dh01.htmlThat's kind of unfair and pretty heartless - if people are screwed up, is the best thing to do laugh and point at them and walk away? I'd rather look for a way to help them...
You misunderstood my writing in shock as mocking the situation. Suicide is no joke to me, (if you want my background on this I'll TG it to you - once I figure out the TG thing.) The reference to Americans was justified as it seems that on NS there is a strong anti American culture bias.

I did a bit of reading on the situation in Japan and much of it is from extreme self absorbtion, as suicide generally is. The artice I referenced was one of the more objective ones I read. You may be aware that there is a cultural acceptance of suicide in Japan. There are even gods of suicide. From my pov, this is really screwed up. If one cares to defend that cultural aceptance then they have no basis on which to say what is going on there is screwed up.

Does that clear it up for you?

Actually no, it's not due to any rapid changes in the enviroment. What's hapened is that more and more emphasis has been placed on the buisness world, to the point where even the slightest hiccup in the economy causes big disasters. At the same time, there is a clear lack of feeling, and this is what draws people to cults.

At the rate things are going, the generation that survives will do exactly what THEIR parents have done. To this end, there will be no evolution, and no change-rather, it's the exact opposite; everything stays the exact same.

Many japenese students that I know (most, if not all) that have come here to America tell me that the only see major flaws in the system AFTER comming here. This leads me to believe that an outside party is needed, either to influence a change or to orchestrate it.

I am not suggesting Terra - Domina's pov is wrong. It is a valid pov given the culture. If we examine the phenomenon from a western value system we have our natural reaction that our cultural context demands. If we look at it from a Japanese cultural pov it is different.

Japanese culture accepts suicide as a legitimate alternative especially when the individual's identity is based on belonging to a group whereas in the west an individual beings their identity to a group. It is not a new phenomenon there. The difference is that the internet is being used to hook up with other likeminded individuals in a fairly permissive environment.

Actually no, it's not due to any rapid changes in the enviroment. What's hapened is that more and more emphasis has been placed on the buisness world, to the point where even the slightest hiccup in the economy causes big disasters. At the same time, there is a clear lack of feeling, and this is what draws people to cults.


By environment i obviously didnt mean birds and trees, what you have described is a change in the sociatial environment that affects the way that the organisms (in this case humans, the japanese in particular) have had to addapt (develop certain traits or habits that make success more attainable) as to survive (not be forced into a situation where they feel they need to commit suicide)

At the rate things are going, the generation that survives will do exactly what THEIR parents have done. To this end, there will be no evolution, and no change-rather, it's the exact opposite; everything stays the exact same.

no, what you have described is how evolution works. Evolution doesnt occur with an end in goal, there is no progress toward a final perfect organism. What evolution is however is a creature using certain adaptations and individual assets to survive in the new environment.

And no, there would be no progression in an ideal bioshpere. Each creature would be adapted to fulfill its order in nature and there would be balance. But since we live in an ever changing world, and im sure Japan's society is an ever changing environment, there must be continued adaptation. Each generation of japanese would need to make their own adaptations to survive in the ever changing environment.

Many japenese students that I know (most, if not all) that have come here to America tell me that the only see major flaws in the system AFTER comming here. This leads me to believe that an outside party is needed, either to influence a change or to orchestrate it.

im sure they do, you can only know what you have experienced ;)

You misunderstood my writing in shock as mocking the situation. Suicide is no joke to me, (if you want my background on this I'll TG it to you - once I figure out the TG thing.) The reference to Americans was justified as it seems that on NS there is a strong anti American culture bias.

I did a bit of reading on the situation in Japan and much of it is from extreme self absorbtion, as suicide generally is. The artice I referenced was one of the more objective ones I read. You may be aware that there is a cultural acceptance of suicide in Japan. There are even gods of suicide. From my pov, this is really screwed up. If one cares to defend that cultural aceptance then they have no basis on which to say what is going on there is screwed up.

Does that clear it up for you?
Yeah, it does. This article really hit me (I know nothing of the Japanese or their suicide rate, I know all too much about Americans and our suicides), and I am against the idea that harmful cultural practices should be dismissed as just another part of the culture or society. Laughing at people contemplating suicide or grinning and referencing Darwin's Law (not saying you did this, it's just in general) doesn't make things OK, it makes them worse, imo.

I am not suggesting Terra - Domina's pov is wrong. It is a valid pov given the culture. If we examine the phenomenon from a western value system we have our natural reaction that our cultural context demands. If we look at it from a Japanese cultural pov it is different.

Japanese culture accepts suicide as a legitimate alternative especially when the individual's identity is based on belonging to a group whereas in the west an individual beings their identity to a group. It is not a new phenomenon there. The difference is that the internet is being used to hook up with other likeminded individuals in a fairly permissive environment.

And that's one of the problems-using the internet, they find support for suicide.

My ex-girlfriend had eating disorders, and I ended up asking her parents to disconnect the internet, because she would continuouosly go to pro-anorexia and pro-bulimia websites no matter how hard she wanted to stop.


no, what you have described is how evolution works. Evolution doesnt occur with an end in goal, there is no progress toward a final perfect organism. What evolution is however is a creature using certain adaptations and individual assets to survive in the new environment.

And no, there would be no progression in an ideal bioshpere. Each creature would be adapted to fulfill its order in nature and there would be balance. But since we live in an ever changing world, and im sure Japan's society is an ever changing environment, there must be continued adaptation. Each generation of japanese would need to make their own adaptations to survive in the ever changing environment.
But the problem here is that a positive change SHOULD happen, but isn't. I understand what you're saying, but the problem here is that it IS a matter of "right" and "wrong."

Yeah, it does. This article really hit me (I know nothing of the Japanese or their suicide rate, I know all too much about Americans and our suicides), and I am against the idea that harmful cultural practices should be dismissed as just another part of the culture or society. Laughing at people contemplating suicide or grinning and referencing Darwin's Law (not saying you did this, it's just in general) doesn't make things OK, it makes them worse, imo.
The sad thing is, it's NOT just their suicide rate that's causing problems. The Aum Shinri Kyo cult, which committed the poison gas attacks in Tokyo, has been GROWING. The percentage of children running away from homes has been going up. And of course, the suicide rate is skyrocketing

And most Americans who care at all about Japan only think "It must be a wonderful place; the home of anime!"

Japan NEEDS to make drastic changes. Their culture has simply enough become dangerous.

This is very sad thing, to hear of so many people being killed.

When I say "Being killed" I refer to the fact that practically all the suicides are caused by a feeling of, "I can't live up to so-and-so's expectiations, so I'll kill myself." A shame.

My friend Billy (She's a girl, we just call her that) has been just coming back to school. She was close to suicide, cutting herself all over her arms. It was something to do with her dad, but she wasn't specific.

I'm rambling now.

This is very sad thing, to hear of so many people being killed.

When I say "Being killed" I refer to the fact that practically all the suicides are caused by a feeling of, "I can't live up to so-and-so's expectiations, so I'll kill myself." A shame.

My friend Billy (She's a girl, we just call her that) has been just coming back to school. She was close to suicide, cutting herself all over her arms. It was something to do with her dad, but she wasn't specific.

I'm rambling now.
Sorry to hear of your friend. I tried to IM you but I guess I missed you on MSN.

And most Americans who care at all about Japan only think "It must be a wonderful place; the home of anime!"Ew, I hate anime. Um... ok, that wasn't relevant.

Ew, I hate anime. Um... ok, that wasn't relevant.

Heh actually, it kinda was.

The thing is, so many people are completely IGNORANT about it. I seriously hold back the urge to bitchslap every overweight (or severely underweight) idiot who walks around, talking about how perfect Japan is. No joke, japanophiles piss me off big time.

The thing is, so many people are completely IGNORANT about it. I seriously hold back the urge to bitchslap every overweight (or severely underweight) idiot who walks around, talking about how perfect Japan is. No joke, japanophiles piss me off big time.I'm not emamoured with them either, Japanese language classes tend to be full of people wanting to write/produce/whatever anime and ruin it for those who actually want to learn the language.

Ew, I hate anime. Um... ok, that wasn't relevant.
*cough*letila*cough*

*cough*letila*cough*
Oh yeah, we've crossed paths on this issue before... hehe.

its very sad. i hate death so much and suicide the most. i hope having another person there gave them some peace before they died.

the internet is just a tool, it can be used for good or bad. there are anorexic support groups where sufferers teach each other techniques for not getting discovered. considering the death rate from anorexia, its almost the same thing as this.

yes it does seem especially shocking that its in japan. we only ever hear the good parts of japanese culture, very seldom the bad parts.