NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, I have to do a debate, which from what I understand, is in front of my entire school. It's a Bush vs. Kerry thing. I am on the Kerry side. Now, I know that many of the people who occupy these forums are pretty good debaters, and it would be nice if I could get some pointers or info or something to help me contribute. So, anyone up for it? Pretty please?

Emphasize and elaborate on how much Bush fucked up in Iraq, such as not sending enough troops to do the job, depsite being told how many were needed; disbanding the Iraqi army; allowing looting to go on for a week after the fall of Baghdad; the heavy-handed American method of dealing with insurgents; not finding any WMDs; saying that if nations weren't part of the Coalition, they couldn't bid on reconsturction contracts; how many Coalition nations pulled out troops; the list in endless!!

Ok, I have to do a debate, which from what I understand, is in front of my entire school. It's a Bush vs. Kerry thing. I am on the Kerry side. Now, I know that many of the people who occupy these forums are pretty good debaters, and it would be nice if I could get some pointers or info or something to help me contribute. So, anyone up for it? Pretty please?
Ah, so are we, we are getting a moderator to come and ask us questions. Should be fun.


Most important thing is relax and try not to stumble on your words, I do it a lot, but it really helps if you don't.

Emphasize and elaborate on how much Bush fucked up in Iraq, such as not sending enough troops to do the job, depsite being told how many were needed; disbanding the Iraqi army; allowing looting to go on for a week after the fall of Baghdad; the heavy-handed American method of dealing with insurgents; not finding any WMDs; saying that if nations weren't part of the Coalition, they couldn't bid on reconsturction contracts; how many Coalition nations pulled out troops; the list in endless!!
You have to understand though; I'm dealing with 13 and 14 year olds so set in their parent's rhetoric that this doesn't affect them. I need something they haven't heard before that will be just as hard-hitting. I was thinking maybe the Cheney-PNAC tie, but nobody would believe me.

look up the republican talking points and remember the facts that counter the bullshit, all your really gonna need

Point out that Bush's policies are making us less safe by making it easier for Al-Qaida to find new recruits.

You are outta luck against 14 year old boys. Bush thinks just like them. You can go on and on about the horrors at Iraq, but then a dragonball fan will come and say "duh, hehehehe, but bush kicks ass" and everyone will aplaud. Even the parents.

Don't mention Kerry's senate record. That is a minefield!!

We get hurricanes here in Florida and Kerry went windsurfing. ;)

thank you biff for personifying everyone's point

Don't mention Kerry's senate record. That is a minefield!!

Sadly, I have to aggree. Unfortunately, many people lack the ability to comprehend how complex the bills/resolutions that get passed on a congressional level and assume that the votes can be distilled to some quantifiable essence that can be described in two words. The same bill can litterally have funding kindercare services and selling tanks to a third world country. Unfortunately the Senators cannot line-item veto the stuff before they call the vote if they aren't one of the bill's sponsors.

Bump.

Yet another bump.

Last bump.

Point out the errors in the GOP arguments about senator kerry's record. Mainly, the 87b bill, and equipment cuts.

Just to give you the material...

Kerry did vote against 87b dollars for the war in iraq. However, this was only because he was voting for a different bill, which gave just as much money with a 20b dollar emphasis on reconstuction in iraq. He didn't just vote against funding.

For the equipment, The GOP claims he voted to cut/kill many programs. However, the majority of the ones said were about funding for the fiscal year of 1991, and it was one bill with about 11 systems on it. He didn't vote on any of those specifically.

This might be over the head for 14 year olds, though.

This might be over the head for 14 year olds, though.

Are you kidding. Judging by the arguments I get into with my parents, it's over the head of a lot more than 14 year olds.

Ok, I have to do a debate, which from what I understand, is in front of my entire school. It's a Bush vs. Kerry thing. I am on the Kerry side. Now, I know that many of the people who occupy these forums are pretty good debaters, and it would be nice if I could get some pointers or info or something to help me contribute. So, anyone up for it? Pretty please?

Just cry a lot and call everyone who disagrees with you a racist. That's pretty much the average kerry supporters MO.

And here's the talking points.

Bush lied. Blah Blah Blah. Bush lied. Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian. Blah Blah Blah. Something about the Economy. Blah Blah Blah. John Kerry reporting for duty. Blah. Blah. Blah. Bush lied and did I mention Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian and Laura Bush is a bitch who has never had a real job.

Then make up some stuff about how republicans are Nazi's and they are supressing the vote or something and anyway the even the baby jesus hates republicans, but not abortion because that's a religous issue and you don't want to legislate religion.

That's pretty much it.

When you speak, remember to do the Clinton thumb-thing.

Just cry a lot and call everyone who disagrees with you a racist. That's pretty much the average kerry supporters MO.

And here's the talking points.

Bush lied. Blah Blah Blah. Bush lied. Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian. Blah Blah Blah. Something about the Economy. Blah Blah Blah. John Kerry reporting for duty. Blah. Blah. Blah. Bush lied and did I mention Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian and Laura Bush is a bitch who has never had a real job.

Then make up some stuff about how republicans are Nazi's and they are supressing the vote or something and anyway the even the baby jesus hates republicans, but not abortion because that's a religous issue and you don't want to legislate religion.

That's pretty much it.
which is of course better than

blah blah kerry is a liberal blah blah trial lawyers are bad blah blah edwards is a liberal blah blah liberal senator from massachusetts blah blah liberal blah blah blah trail lawyer blah blah blah voted for 87 billion before voted against it blah blah iraq wanted weapons of mass destruction blah blah blah liberal blah blah

which is of course better than

blah blah kerry is a liberal blah blah trial lawyers are bad blah blah edwards is a liberal blah blah liberal senator from massachusetts blah blah liberal blah blah blah trail lawyer blah blah blah voted for 87 billion before voted against it blah blah iraq wanted weapons of mass destruction blah blah blah liberal blah blah


You forgot "tax and spend liberal".

You forgot "tax and spend liberal".
and liberal, and liberal trial lawyer, and nukyuler

which is of course better than

blah blah kerry is a liberal blah blah trial lawyers are bad blah blah edwards is a liberal blah blah liberal senator from massachusetts blah blah liberal blah blah blah trail lawyer blah blah blah voted for 87 billion before voted against it blah blah iraq wanted weapons of mass destruction blah blah blah liberal blah blah

Politics is a wonderful thing. You can lie, mislead the public and its all ok! The swift voters are a good example. Simple smear and nothing else! I heard tonight on TV is an anti-Kerry program by supposedly "neutral" media.
Of course if your station happens to give thousands and thousands of dollars to Repubicans...

A Few Basic Pointers First:
•Always take notes!!! You never know when your worthy opponent will slip up and you need to remember when he does. If you can recall specifics of his argument and then factually turn them against him, you will win more points this way than in anything else you can do.

•Remember to stay calm and rational. Emotion and emphasis are fine, but if you let them control your debating style, you'll end up looking like President Bush (and we all know who "lost" in the "Presidential" debates...)

•Whatever you do, don't rush things! Make your arguments in a calm and rational manner. A crushing rhetorical blow looses its effectiveness when delivered at the speed of a crazed chipmunk's scoldings.

•Be confident. Exude confidence. Tell your audience by your body language that you are right. Don't be arrogant in tone, but your posture should never admit defeat, even if your opponent somehow manages to best you. It is the audience's perceptions of you that will make or break you, and your opponent can only affect that as much as you allow him.

•UM and UH and other meaningless articles are poison! Avoid them at all costs!

•BACK UP your arguments with research and solid sources... Attack the validity of your opponent's sources if at all possible.


Now as far as materials go, El Presidente has certainly given us plenty of ammunition to work with. Empasize the fact that he consistently disregards his advisors on critical issues. Emphasize the Princeton Review's placement of his language skills at a sixth grade level, if you can work it in subtly. Point out what he's done (or not done) in comparison to other presidents. Now here are some ideas for possible contentions for you:


1) the presidend repeatedly brushed off warnings of increased Al Qaeda activity prior to 9/11. he didn't even let the relevant briefings take place until days before, and even then failed to act.

2) the president failed to make counter-terrorism a pre-9/11 priority, despite knowledge that our current safeguards were inadequate.

3) the president was told that the initial numbers of troops he wished to use in the invasion would be insufficient to accomplish his goals and secure iraq. he then retired the man who told him this (General Shinseki, Chief of Staff of the US Army). i personally can't believe we give more confidence to a man who never saw combat, served only in the National Guard (and with a patchy and questionable record), and FIRED the advisor most qualified to help him with iraq!

4) the bush administration failed to ensure suitable backup supplies to the influenza vaccine, and accepted only the word of the company they hired that the supplies would arrive and arrive on time. when the health of the American public is at stake, a little fact-checking never hurt anyone, but Bush couldn't be bothered.

5) bush's solution to prescription-drug price gouging? reward the companies responsible by granting billions in federal subsidies.

6) in terms of new jobs created, bush has LOST the american worker money, even though he's created a small net increase in new jobs, the jobs lost were high-paying and the ones gained are barely over minimum wage. think of it like a computer programmer being told his job's going to india, where the company doesn't have to provide so much in benefits. he gets to flip burgers now, while the American CEO of his company gets a 3% increase in stock prices (stock options are near-universal forms of compensation for high-level executives in larger, publicly-traded firms.)

Tonights "special" on John Kerry (if it shows in your area) should give you enough fodder for a good argument on the conservative bias of some media-holdings companies. At the very least, it will prepare you for what attacks will come against Senator Kerry's military service. For more research, check out Michael Moore's website. DONT USE IT AS A SOURCE. (he's a mite too controversial and no matter how on- or off-target he may be, many conservatives will reject him out-of-hand.) BUT he backs up nearly every argument with other sources... USE THEM.

Hopefully some of this will help you.

Don't mention Kerry's senate record. That is a minefield!!

We get hurricanes here in Florida and Kerry went windsurfing. ;)
Did someone foget Kerry bringing down the curropt bank called BCCI?

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

Read it and weep Biff. Kerry did a whole lot more than you think.