NationStates Jolt Archive

You heard right, Bloomburg New Jersey is giving out flu vaccines by lottery. Would you be against, for, or undecided for with this?

I am so sick and tired of hearing about this damn flu shot. No offense, but although there is seriousness in the issue, the media is blowing this entire thing out of proportion.

I have to agree with you on that. I'm just saying that in my opinion, what they're doing here is wrong.

In a perfect world, the people who needed the flu shots the most would get them, and the rest of us would be noble and take our chances (what I do every year). This isn't a perfect world, though, as evidenced by the fact that both Dick Cheney and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist have gotten flus shots while millions of other people are going without (and I'm sure there are some high-level Dems on the list too--just haven't heard their names).

That said, a lottery may not be the most effective way to dispense the shots, but it's better than auctioning them off to the highest bidder.

I think what they should be doing is only vaccinating those who are at the risk of getting the flu first, then the others. The elderly, children, and those with diseases as pnuemonia and asthma should be getting them first, then for those panicky people who think they will get every disease imaginable if they are not vaccinated should go last.

That said, a lottery may not be the most effective way to dispense the shots, but it's better than auctioning them off to the highest bidder.

Well, you do have a point there. I agree, but we should treat the high-risk first, well those high risk and want to be vaccinated.

i personally think it's a rediculous idea....i dont think that is a good way to handle the situation at all....there are always exceptions, but i think that at least part of the people in the u.s. will voluntarily forgo getting the vaccine for the others who actually need it.....unfortunately, shit happens.....the process of making the flu vaccine isnt perfect, and officials in charge of it know a new process needs to be implemented, but this one had worked for the most part so far.....just my opinion, but i dont think this should even be an issue with election time, because the president cannot and should not control what companies are willing to make and distribute the vaccine....for many companies, especially smaller ones, it isnt really profitable, and they have to worry so much about liabilities and lawsuits if something isnt perfect in the vaccine....yes, it's a large number of vaccines that arent going to be given this year, but consider that many people get them just as a preventative measure, and arent really at risk, so they dont technically have to have it....i agree, they are making a big deal out of it when they shouldnt....but anyways, just my opinion....

i agree, auctioning them off to the highest bidder is a very bad way to handle the situation, especially when you consider that the people at the highest risk, elderly, very young, and already ill from other diseases often cannot afford to pay the high costs for the vaccine, if that's how it would be done....

Isn't it better if the people who need the shots get it free and the one's who don't have to pay?

No, I do not believe it would be any good in that event. Sure, it would be convient for the person getting the vaccination who needs it, but the reason of the shortage has to deal with the lack of profit in the field already. That is why the companies are hesitant to produce it becauses there is no real financial gain in the market, and everyone know America is all about the money.

At least in my experience. I got a flu shot once a few years ago. I got sick a month later.

And who trusts government shots anyway?

I just don't understand why so many people feel like it is SO important.

If you're elderly or young that is one thing, but as for everyone else, wtf?

For Christ's sake people, it's the FLU. Plus that vaccine has mercury in it, which is toxic. Why do you think your lab teacher in HS/college told you to step away from the broken thermometer. I mean the flu! Start giving out Smallpox vaccines again and I'll understand but THE FLU!

For Christ's sake people, it's the FLU. Plus that vaccine has mercury in it, which is toxic. Why do you think your lab teacher in HS/college told you to step away from the broken thermometer. I mean the flu! Start giving out Smallpox vaccines again and I'll understand but THE FLU!


Exactly! Well said. :)

In a perfect world, the people who needed the flu shots the most would get them, and the rest of us would be noble and take our chances (what I do every year). This isn't a perfect world, though, as evidenced by the fact that both Dick Cheney and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist have gotten flus shots while millions of other people are going without (and I'm sure there are some high-level Dems on the list too--just haven't heard their names).

That said, a lottery may not be the most effective way to dispense the shots, but it's better than auctioning them off to the highest bidder.

Don't forget Bill AND Hillary Clinton got them too. Of course Cheney and Bill Clinton are heart patients and SHOULD get them. But I see where YOUR feelings lie.....

For Christ's sake people, it's the FLU. Plus that vaccine has mercury in it, which is toxic. Why do you think your lab teacher in HS/college told you to step away from the broken thermometer. I mean the flu! Start giving out Smallpox vaccines again and I'll understand but THE FLU!

Do some reserch....the FLU kills more people worldwide than any other disease. Look into the flu epidemic during 1918.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/

675,000 people in the US died from the "flu."

The flu should not be taken lightly by those most affected.

I've never had a flu shot in my life, and never intend to get one.

Do some reserch....the FLU kills more people worldwide than any other disease. Look into the flu epidemic during 1918.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/

675,000 people in the US died from the "flu."

The flu should not be taken lightly by those most affected.
Biff....that was 1918 for cryin' out loud. Times are a bit different now, we have much better health care. Flu shots are really only needed by the elderly and very young, or people with immune system problems. Young (not children), healthy people have no need of them.

Biff....that was 1918 for cryin' out loud. Times are a bit different now, we have much better health care. Flu shots are really only needed by the elderly and very young, or people with immune system problems. Young (not children), healthy people have no need of them.

Thats true....but to discount the flu is a serious mistake. Even "healthy" people can succomb to it. It is a virus and there is no way to treat a virus once someone contracts it. Vaccines are the only way to prevent it. That there is a shortage makes it all the worse for some.

When I was in the air force we were required to get the flu shot every year. I have not had so much as a cold in over 20 years and I credit those shots for that.

Thats true....but to discount the flu is a serious mistake. Even "healthy" people can succomb to it. It is a virus and there is no way to treat a virus once someone contracts it. Vaccines are the only way to prevent it. That there is a shortage makes it all the worse for some.

When I was in the air force we were required to get the flu shot every year. I have not had so much as a cold in over 20 years and I credit those shots for that.
Yes, supposedly "healthy" people can sometimes succomb to the flu, but that is extremely rare. Also, common cold != flu. To the best of my knowledge getting a flu shot has no effect on getting a normal cold. You probably just have a very strong immune system.

Edit: On a side note, don't you think it's funny that we can't even agree on something like the flu? :)

perhaps the US should suck it up and buy the vaccine from Canada. There is plenty there and they are willing to sell. This has nothing to do with a perfect world and everything to do with a lack of preparation on the behalf of the US government.

Yes, supposedly "healthy" people can sometimes succomb to the flu, but that is extremely rare. Also, common cold != flu. To the best of my knowledge getting a flu shot has no effect on getting a normal cold. You probably just have a very strong immune system.

Edit: On a side note, don't you think it's funny that we can't even agree on something like the flu? :)

I "might" have a strong immune system. I never get sick.

It is not that we disagree....read the post I was answering and you will see where I am coming from. People discount the "flu" because they think it is just a stronger form of the cold...and in some sense it is as they are both viruses.

I would never discount the flu though, it is a serious virus and not to be taken lightly.

Since "healthy" people are rarely killed by the flu as you say....then how could so many "healthy" people have died from it in 1918? Were their immune systems that much different from ours?

perhaps the US should suck it up and buy the vaccine from Canada. There is plenty there and they are willing to sell. This has nothing to do with a perfect world and everything to do with a lack of preparation on the behalf of the US government.

No, it is all due to a contaminated supply from the British company that we were buying it from. It was the British government that stopped that supply from shipping.

No, it is all due to a contaminated supply from the British company that we were buying it from. It was the British government that stopped that supply from shipping.


Fair enough, however, the US could still avoid lottery or auction situation by buying from canada, the supply is there and could be sent at a moments notice. Might even buy bush some votes in the precious time left before election

Do some reserch....the FLU kills more people worldwide than any other disease. Look into the flu epidemic during 1918.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/

675,000 people in the US died from the "flu."

The flu should not be taken lightly by those most affected.

1918 was a very different time. Cleanliness, hygine, sanitation, etc. were vastly different back then. People often lived in clumbed up spaces without any ventilation or any safety codes. All that has changed drastically so to cite a 1918 epidemic is useless. Now as far as 675,000 people dying a year from the flu, more people die of cancer than that. And I doubt the flu kills more than the whole world over Malaria which is estimated at 6 million deaths per year, mostly in places where mosquitoes run free. Rachel Carson may have gotten DDT banned but because of her many have died and they do use DDT in nations elsewhere and it is very effective at curtailing the mosquitos. Encephilitis is a big killer as well.

Fair enough, however, the US could still avoid lottery or auction situation by buying from canada, the supply is there and could be sent at a moments notice. Might even buy bush some votes in the precious time left before election

We already do buy some from Canada. The problem lies in inspecting the facility the vaccine is produced in. Before it is inspected, the FDA will not certify the vaccine for use.

The same is true for companies IN the US too. They also have to pass the same criteria.

Since "healthy" people are rarely killed by the flu as you say....then how could so many "healthy" people have died from it in 1918? Were their immune systems that much different from ours?
Actually, yes, their immune systems probably were pretty different. Over the years, the human race as a whole builds up immunities to diseases, and to drugs. It's why a drug such as penicillin, which was incredibly powerful when it came out, is now hardly used. It's also why so many Native Americans were wiped out after coming into contact with the original English settlers in the New World. When the settlers came with them, they brought germs with them that had been in Europe for centuries, and they weren't seriously affected by them, overall. The Native Americans, on the other hand, had never been exposed to these diseases and were practically wiped out.
Also, we didn't have very good quality medical support available in 1918. It was basically just stay in bed and hope for the best. It also spread faster because people didn't know as much about germs, viruses, etc, and didn't have effective ways to sanitize objects that a sick person came into contact with. The 1918 flu epidemic was certainly horrible (it killed more people than WWI), but we've come a long way since then. Which is not to say that another epidemic of something cannot happen. I think, statistically, we're about due for a true pandemic sometime (relatively) soon. But when it happens, it won't be the flu, or if it is, it will be a new mutated form of it. It will probably be some new disease, like the SARS scare.

Fair enough, however, the US could still avoid lottery or auction situation by buying from canada, the supply is there and could be sent at a moments notice. Might even buy bush some votes in the precious time left before election
From my understanding, buying from Canada will not help anything this year. First of all, they don't have enough of a supply to cover what we need, secondly, it won't get FDA approval fast enough for this flu season.

1918 was a very different time. Cleanliness, hygine, sanitation, etc. were vastly different back then. People often lived in clumbed up spaces without any ventilation or any safety codes. All that has changed drastically so to cite a 1918 epidemic is useless. Now as far as 675,000 people dying a year from the flu, more people die of cancer than that. And I doubt the flu kills more than the whole world over Malaria which is estimated at 6 million deaths per year, mostly in places where mosquitoes run free. Rachel Carson may have gotten DDT banned but because of her many have died and they do use DDT in nations elsewhere and it is very effective at curtailing the mosquitos. Encephilitis is a big killer as well.

In 2003 the flu accounted for 9% of all US deaths. 7.9% is the threshold for an epidemic to be declared.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/79/96084.htm

I think that is a sizeable number of deaths. The flu is far more serious than a lot of people would like to believe. The flu often leads to Pneumonia as well.

Either way, I hope it is a light year for the flu.

Actually, yes, their immune systems probably were pretty different. Over the years, the human race as a whole builds up immunities to diseases, and to drugs. It's why a drug such as penicillin, which was incredibly powerful when it came out, is now hardly used. It's also why so many Native Americans were wiped out after coming into contact with the original English settlers in the New World. When the settlers came with them, they brought germs with them that had been in Europe for centuries, and they weren't seriously affected by them, overall. The Native Americans, on the other hand, had never been exposed to these diseases and were practically wiped out. Also, we didn't have very good quality medical support available in 1918. It was basically just stay in bed and hope for the best. It also spread faster because people didn't know as much about germs, viruses, etc, and didn't have effective ways to sanitize objects that a sick person came into contact with. The 1918 flu epidemic was certainly horrible (it killed more people than WWI), but we've come a long way since then. Which is not to say that another epidemic of something cannot happen. I think, statistically, we're about due for a true pandemic sometime (relatively) soon. But when it happens, it won't be the flu, or if it is, it will be a new mutated form of it. It will probably be some new disease, like the SARS scare.

Yes, but by 1918 everyone had at least been exposed to the flu before.

This might be the answer as to why....and it may give us some insight into what is to come if you have followed events in Asia lately.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/79/96084.htm

In 2003 the flu accounted for 9% of all US deaths. 7.9% is the threshold for an epidemic to be declared.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/79/96084.htm

I think that is a sizeable number of deaths. The flu is far more serious than a lot of people would like to believe. The flu often leads to Pneumonia as well.

Either way, I hope it is a light year for the flu.
Double check that article - it was only for the week ending Dec 27th of 2002. Just one week.

Yes, but by 1918 everyone had at least been exposed to the flu before.

This might be the answer as to why....and it may give us some insight into what is to come if you have followed events in Asia lately.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/79/96084.htm
Certainly they had been exposed to the flu before...but we now have almost another 90 years of tolerance built up. :)

And what events in Asia are you speaking of?

Double check that article - it was only for the week ending Dec 27th of 2002. Just one week.

You are correct...I was looking at the date of the article.

That some here would politicize the whole flu shot deal is not surprising. But that some would shrug it off because it is "only" the flu do not seem to realize just what can happen in a bad year.

Certainly they had been exposed to the flu before...but we now have almost another 90 years of tolerance built up. :)

And what events in Asia are you speaking of?

The bird flu outbreaks. They have been killing millions of chickens in China, Vietnam and Thailand recently because they have an epidemic of it there and some people have also died from it.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994603

Since they believe the 1918 strain was similar to the bird flu.....and there is a massive epidemic of bird flu in Asia......we could be in for a very bad flu season soon.

The bird flu outbreaks. They have been killing millions of chickens in China, Vietnam and Thailand recently because they have an epidemic of it there and some people have also died from it.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994603
I haven't heard anything about that. Although admittedly, Asia is low down on my priority list of checking news from. I'm mostly concerned with 1) the US, (tie)2) the rest of North America, (tie)2) Europe, and 4) Africa (I find African political news...interesting, to say the least, and I have a good friend from Zimbabwe and know another person from South Africa)

After that, I don't specifically look for news coming from different regions, I just look for interesting headlines.

I haven't heard anything about that. Although admittedly, Asia is low down on my priority list of checking news from. I'm mostly concerned with 1) the US, (tie)2) the rest of North America, (tie)2) Europe, and 4) Africa (I find African political news...interesting, to say the least, and I have a good friend from Zimbabwe and know another person from South Africa)

After that, I don't specifically look for news coming from different regions, I just look for interesting headlines.

I only know about this one because my father is convinced that a SARS/Avian Flu epidemic is coming....he might be right about the flu.

The bird flu outbreaks. They have been killing millions of chickens in China, Vietnam and Thailand recently because they have an epidemic of it there and some people have also died from it.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994603
That's from last year though. The article was published Jan '04, and the avian flu epidemic was in August-November '03 from what I can gather from the article. Although I agree, we may have gotten lucky there. Something like that could be all that it takes, once genes start mutating, forget it.

Don't forget Bill AND Hillary Clinton got them too. Of course Cheney and Bill Clinton are heart patients and SHOULD get them. But I see where YOUR feelings lie.....
Fuck you Biff. I noted that high level Democrats had probably gotten them as well, and that I hadn't mentioned them because I didn't know who they were. Get off your cross--you don't play the martyr very well.

For Christ's sake people, it's the FLU. Plus that vaccine has mercury in it, which is toxic. Why do you think your lab teacher in HS/college told you to step away from the broken thermometer. I mean the flu! Start giving out Smallpox vaccines again and I'll understand but THE FLU!The problem with smallpox vaccines are twofold. One, they're not all that effective. Two, for some people--and I only know thei because I'm one of them--they can be fatal. I was a baby at about the time they were discontinued for the general populace. I was given a sensitivity test and broke out in a body-wide rash. The doctor warned my mom at the time that a smallpox vaccination would likely kill me.

Most certainly they had their shortcomings but it's better to give them out to people who can accept it than no one. If terrorists wanted to attack the US biologically, small pox would be their best bet. Anyone under what, 50, isn't vaccinated? That'd wipe out an ENTIRE generation in the worst case scenario.

I have to agree with you on that. I'm just saying that in my opinion, what they're doing here is wrong.

Considering that each flu vaccine is a crap shoot to begin with? They are being trusted way too much in the first place....

In a perfect world, the people who needed the flu shots the most would get them, and the rest of us would be noble and take our chances (what I do every year). This isn't a perfect world, though, as evidenced by the fact that both Dick Cheney and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist have gotten flus shots while millions of other people are going without (and I'm sure there are some high-level Dems on the list too--just haven't heard their names).

That said, a lottery may not be the most effective way to dispense the shots, but it's better than auctioning them off to the highest bidder.



I agree with you about it should have been the people that needed it. I usually get one and even though I work at a hospital I am not a clinical person so I am not getting mine this year. Our facility didn't even get enough of the vaccine to cover 1/2 of the clinical staff members this year. My daughter is getting one today but she has asthma and I am thankful she is able to get one.

I am really undecided about the lottery but like you said I would hate for it to come down to the highest bidder auction. Its a shame did you see how many "hollywood" stars have gotten theirs. You would think they would have rather had a "common" person have it so that people aren't to sick to pay to see their movies... lol.