NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a break from the political back-and-forth.. an honest look at the War on Terrorism in pictures. I just saw this today, so don't blame me if it's been circulating for a while.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/bommer/When_The_Man_Comes_Around.html

(Also, the "Folk Hero" part is my title, not the video's.. I just thought it was funny using Johnny Cash music.. ;) )

You do know that is so slanted, Biased, and misleading, right?

Good video is you don't mind lies. Especially that labels everyone rather then let you make a up a decision for yourself.

Pepe is a republican me bet.
Don't give my poop and call it ice cream. Its not a honest look if its lies.

You do know that is so slanted, Biased, and misleading, right?

Good video is you don't mind lies. Especially that labels everyone rather then let you make a up a decision for yourself.

Pepe is a republican me bet.
Don't give my poop and call it ice cream. Its not a honest look if its lies.

They're just pictures to music, unless you think they've been photoshopped or something. I'm no computer expert, but they look authentic to me.. let people decide for themselves.

Nice video, I enjoyed it.
Funny, too.

You do know that is so slanted, Biased, and misleading, right?

Good video is you don't mind lies. Especially that labels everyone rather then let you make a up a decision for yourself.

Pepe is a republican me bet.
Don't give my poop and call it ice cream. Its not a honest look if its lies.

Because the opposing is always out to get you...OoOoO

. an honest look at the War on Terrorism in pictures..

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/bommer/When_The_Man_Comes_Around.html
)


Oh please, give it a break. At least the eternally despised liberals have the balls to call their propoganda what it is. By your standards Michael Moore makes only hard-hitting, factual documentaries.

And remember according to the Video, Islam is bad it preaches terrorism and killing -.-

And remember according to the Video Islam is bad it preaches terrorism and killing -.-


I was under the impression that the ISLAMIC terrorists preached about TERRORISM and KILLING...

President Bush: Folk Hero

No, Cat Stevens was a folk hero :p

And remember according to the Video, Islam is bad it preaches terrorism and killing -.-

I dunno if it said that.. I mean, I think the pictures are pretty clear on the type of islam that's the problem, call it wahabism or jihadism or whatever.. it's still pretty clear..

They're just pictures to music, unless you think they've been photoshopped or something. I'm no computer expert, but they look authentic to me.. let people decide for themselves.
Actually, a few of them (not very many) did look Photoshopped...

and if that flash is just images set to music, Fahrenheit 9/11 is just images set to narration...so I suppose neither is biased, slanted, or dishonest.

I dunno if it said that.. I mean, I think the pictures are pretty clear on the type of islam that's the problem, call it wahabism or jihadism or whatever.. it's still pretty clear..

Don't get me started is all im going to say in response right now.

Actually, a few of them (not very many) did look Photoshopped...

and if that flash is just images set to music, Fahrenheit 9/11 is just images set to narration...so I suppose neither is biased, slanted, or dishonest.

Well, as long as a human being put it together, you can guarantee there's some kind of bias. That's just human nature.. I won't being Moore into this though, since I don't think the two are exactly comparable.. ;)

I dunno if it said that.. I mean, I think the pictures are pretty clear on the type of islam that's the problem, call it wahabism or jihadism or whatever.. it's still pretty clear..
Yea. In America, minorities commit more crimes, so let's blame it on the fact that they're not white instead of the fact that they're in hard times because they are lower class...

Well, as long as a human being put it together, you can guarantee there's some kind of bias. That's just human nature.. I won't being Moore into this though, since I don't think the two are exactly comparable.. ;)
There is a considerable amount of bias in this flash. I'm watching it again and will point all of it out...

Yea. In America, minorities commit more crimes, so let's blame it on the fact that they're not white instead of the fact that they're in hard times because they are lower class...

This isn't about race, friend. I think you would be in the minority if you think the video is trying to claim all muslims are bad, expecially since it shows good muslims that have been freed, along with the 'bad.'

Yea, I like how it shows an image of a kid in a Chicago Bears jersey and a bunch of little kids running. The kid in the jersey has an AK, probably for the protection of himself and the group of kids, and those probably aren't the radicals that hate America (especially if he's wearing an American football jersey), and the word "Islam" comes up over the image...


"Fight the war against terrorism" shows up, then over that appears images from liberal media people and liberal media logo. Those guys may not like Bush at all, but I don't remember them flying any planes into any buildings...


"John's friends" ...images of world leaders...the type of people a President should be friends with...


The sign that reads "We support our troops when they shoot their officers" as well as the sign that says something about Bush and turns the 's' in Bush into a swastika both look photoshopped.


The second time the phrase "some are born and some are dying" comes up, if you remember the picture on the right, some chick got sued by the government for taking that picture. This guy downloaded it off the internet after the conservatives sued a liberal photographer for taking that picture...what a prick...


I'm not sure what guys in KKK outfits with bombs strapped to themselves have to do with Islam, but whatev...


The two pages after "Failure is not an option" contain photoshopped images.


The terrorists did not cause the hurricane in Florida.


The image in front of Mt. Rushmore looks photoshopped...because it'd be weird for him to be speaking to an audience and not have the President's faces directly behind him...

This isn't about race, friend. I think you would be in the minority if you think the video is trying to claim all muslims are bad, expecially since it shows good muslims that have been freed, along with the 'bad.'
It does?

It does?

Certainly, like 5 seconds in.. it's one of the first lines in the song. Also, other times too. I think some are trying a little bit too hard to get offended.. :rolleyes:

Quite a bit is photoshopped from what i can tell from paying a little attention.

Certainly, like 5 seconds in.. it's one of the first lines in the song. Also, other times too. I think some are trying a little bit too hard to get offended.. :rolleyes:
The song has nothing to do with Islam you tool. Besides, there is a much greater negative attitude toward Islam throughout the entire flash. It wouldn't've been so bad if he didn't include the image with the kid in the Bears' jersey and if it said "Radical Fundamentalists" instead of "Islam"...

Golly gosh, I must be so naive. I think the word ISLAAM being splashed over the images gives the game away. That plus a ton of other biased crap. It's fine as a piece of nationalistic, Islaam hating propoganda but anyone really seeing just 'facts' needs a bit of therapy.

Actually, I think the image of Bush in front of Rushmore is probably the funniest image ever...

I'm 96% sure it is photoshopped based on the fact that the mountains are not directly behind him and his shadow looks weird...

The other 4% goes to the fact that Bush isn't that bright and may not have know a whole lot about photo-ops at the time that image was taken (if it was early in his presidency).

The song has nothing to do with Islam you tool. Besides, there is a much greater negative attitude toward Islam throughout the entire flash. It wouldn't've been so bad if he didn't include the image with the kid in the Bears' jersey and if it said "Radical Fundamentalists" instead of "Islam"...


I never said the song did. I meant the clip, 5 seconds into the song. Sorry if the syntax got by you there, my fault entirely. Perhaps the picture with the kid has something to do with the way some train kids to hate before they have any will of their own?

I never said the song did. I meant the clip, 5 seconds into the song. Sorry if the syntax got by you there, my fault entirely. Perhaps the picture with the kid has something to do with the way some train kids to hate before they have any will of their own?
You don't get it do you? The fundamentalists hate America. If that kid was hanging out with the radicals and learning to kill Americans, they wouldn't let him wear that Jersey. He'd be wearing the sheets and such like you see all the other terrorists in. That image is actually probably an image of some kids celebrating after some Americans "liberated" them...AK47s are more common in the middle east than you think.

Almost every household has at least one Ak-47 in it in most the middle east i heard in some report.

You don't get it do you? The fundamentalists hate America. If that kid was hanging out with the radicals and learning to kill Americans, they wouldn't let him wear that Jersey. He'd be wearing the sheets and such like you see all the other terrorists in. That image is actually probably an image of some kids celebrating after some Americans "liberated" them...AK47s are more common in the middle east than you think.

Could be. I didn't make the video, and maybe the guy who did meant it to be a positive image, with the word "Islam" over it to contrast with the violent image later, saying, "here's the other side, the enemy."

When I saw the clip, I didn't see the bias we're trying so hard to deconstruct.. odds are, the clip was just meant to show the War on Terrorism, withthe message that we won't quit. Fair enough, I think.

Could be. I didn't make the video, and maybe the guy who did meant it to be a positive image, with the word "Islam" over it to contrast with the violent image later, saying, "here's the other side, the enemy."

When I saw the clip, I didn't see the bias we're trying so hard to deconstruct.. odds are, the clip was just meant to show the War on Terrorism, withthe message that we won't quit. Fair enough, I think.
You're not too bright. I really hope you're pulling my leg. If the guy wanted to show you the war on terrorism with the message "we won't quit," then he didn't need to include any images of John Kerry, babies, children, the word 'Islam,' photoshopped images, protestors, and he most definitely did not need to make innocent Iraqi children out to be the enemy. Who ever made that flash is a douche.

You're not too bright. I really hope you're pulling my leg. If the guy wanted to show you the war on terrorism with the message "we won't quit," then he didn't need to include any images of John Kerry, babies, children, the word 'Islam,' photoshopped images, protestors, and he most definitely did not need to make innocent Iraqi children out to be the enemy. Who ever made that flash is a douche.
Have to agree pretty much 100% there.

Pecos Bill was a folk hero.

Johnny Appleseed was a folk hero.

Paul Bunyan was a folk hero.

John Henry was a folk hero.

George W. Bush is a halfwit politician.

You're not too bright. I really hope you're pulling my leg. If the guy wanted to show you the war on terrorism with the message "we won't quit," then he didn't need to include any images of John Kerry, babies, children, the word 'Islam,' photoshopped images, protestors, and he most definitely did not need to make innocent Iraqi children out to be the enemy. Who ever made that flash is a douche.

I didn't say that was the only message, just the main one. And if the opinion is also that Kerry isn't an ally, then maybe that's the guy's opinion..

If your history book thinks Reagan was a good president and you disagree, but the facts about his presidency are correct, then I don't think you call the whole book into question, just the conclusion. So, disagree with the conclusion if you like, but the clip still stands as a motivational summary of the War on Terrorism.. also, I don't think any of the images were photoshopped.. I've seen the same (and worse) banners at the RNC, as well as other protests...

Pecos Bill was a folk hero.

Johnny Appleseed was a folk hero.

Paul Bunyan was a folk hero.

John Henry was a folk hero.

George W. Bush is a halfwit politician.

President Bush is mud to half the population as long as the campaign's going on. Afterward, however, things will go on as usual, and down the road, President Bush will be thought of similar to how we think of President Jackson, not a full-blown folk hero, but with many of the same elements. :) Note: that's an opinion, not a political statement.

I didn't say that was the only message, just the main one. And if the opinion is also that Kerry isn't an ally, then maybe that's the guy's opinion..

If your history book thinks Reagan was a good president and you disagree, but the facts about his presidency are correct, then I don't think you call the whole book into question, just the conclusion. So, disagree with the conclusion if you like, but the clip still stands as a motivational summary of the War on Terrorism.. also, I don't think any of the images were photoshopped.. I've seen the same (and worse) banners at the RNC, as well as other protests...
The banners may or may not have been photoshopped. At least three people I've talked to so far have pointed out that the banners look photoshopped without my asking about them...
But the Mt. Rushmore image IS photoshopped.

That is not even close to an accurate representation of the War On Terrorism not even close.

That is not even close to an accurate representation of the War On Terrorism not even close.

Well, watching the clip certainly won't get you an "A" on your history midterm if you haven't read the text... ;) But for a 2-minute photoessay, I think it captures the essence.

Well, watching the clip certainly won't get you an "A" on your history midterm if you haven't read the text... ;) But for a 2-minute photoessay, I think it captures the essence.

Yep, I like the part where it shows kerry wearing a tiara
That would get you an A in my class.

Yep, I like the part where it shows kerry wearing a tiara
That would get you an A in my class.

:D :D

My history was done in 10th grade. But if you want i'll ask my Government and Political Science teacher to look it over and let you know how great of a War on Terrorism 2 minute flash that was.

I had to stop that rubbish after a minute or so, I'm trying to eat and it was turning my stomach. Give me a break, Bush a folk hero just because he happened to be the illigitamate monkey-in-charge at the infamous moment? I think it'll take more than that to elevate an ex-cokehead/drunken frat-boy, who skipped out on his military service and used his family name to keep his screw-ups from sticking to him as he rode his father coat-tails, to that status.

I had to stop that rubbish after a minute or so, I'm trying to eat and it was turning my stomach. Give me a break, Bush a folk hero just because he happened to be the illigitamate monkey-in-charge at the infamous moment? I think it'll take more than that to elevate an ex-cokehead/drunken frat-boy, who skipped out on his military service and used his family name to keep his screw-ups from sticking to him as he rode his father coat-tails, to that status.

The clip gives one view.. no one's got a gun to your head to accept it. :rolleyes: It's merely a summary of events in photoessay form.. and fighting what you think is bias with even more bias isn't the way to go, friend: take it from Pepe Dominguez.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

The clip gives one view..
And it is an extremely biased one, unlike what you started off saying.

The clip gives one view.. no one's got a gun to your head to accept it. :rolleyes: It's merely a summary of events in photoessay form.. and fighting what you think is bias with even more bias isn't the way to go, friend: take it from Pepe Dominguez.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

Yup. Agreed.

And it is an extremely biased one, unlike what you started off saying.

If that's what you take the pictures to mean, then that's your opinion. I say: let the people decide.

If that's what you take the pictures to mean, then that's your opinion. I say: let the people decide.
Biasness isn't a "let the people" decide type of thing...
The people can decide whether or not they agree with it, but for you to say that flash is not biased would be like me saying Fahrenheit 9/11 isn't biased.

The clip gives one view.. no one's got a gun to your head to accept it. :rolleyes: It's merely a summary of events in photoessay form.. and fighting what you think is bias with even more bias isn't the way to go, friend: take it from Pepe Dominguez.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

Then you have absolutely no problem with Fahrenheit 9/11 or anything Michael Moore puts out, I take it?


I'm not hating. Just trying to ferret out hypocrisy wherever it might hide :D

What I find ironic about this useless propaganda, is the fact that the video starts out with images on 9/11 when Bush was at the height of his popularity and it has been all downhill since then.

The references to Islam are a disgrace to the creators of this video and to all who would tout this as a testament to Bush as a "folk hero". The creators of this video are purveyors of hate and ignorance, and in their rush to "idolize" Bush, they have done a grave injustice to the people of America. :(

The clip gives one view.. no one's got a gun to your head to accept it. :rolleyes: It's merely a summary of events in photoessay form.. and fighting what you think is bias with even more bias isn't the way to go, friend: take it from Pepe Dominguez.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -AristotleI entertained that thought and it turned my stomache. As for the 'bias with even more bias' quip, you defend this tripe but belittle my one sentence glimpse of the equally valid flip side of the coin? Pepe, you just sunk all your credibility.

I entertained that thought and it turned my stomache. As for the 'bias with eveb more bias' quip, you defend this tripe but belittle my one sentence glimpse of the equally valid flip side of the coin? Pepe, you just sunk all your credibility.

What the hell is this 'Lost Planet' nut-job harping on about? The movie was comical, while also carrying along with it a serious message. Plain and simple.

What I find ironic about this useless propaganda, is the fact that the video starts out with images on 9/11 when Bush was at the height of his popularity and it has been all downhill since then.

The references to Islam are a disgrace to the creators of this video and to all who would tout this as a testament to Bush as a "folk hero". The creators of this video are purveyors of hate and ignorance, and in their rush to "idolize" Bush, they have done a grave injustice to the people of America. :(

Hah, leave the politics up to Americans..
Go farm some pigs or whatever the hell you do over in Canada.-- It's obvious you can't run a country

Well, it got at least one thing right. We've got four friends in the world (if that..)

Then you have absolutely no problem with Fahrenheit 9/11 or anything Michael Moore puts out, I take it?


I'm not hating. Just trying to ferret out hypocrisy wherever it might hide :D

I've never seen any of his work, but I hear that he often edits interviews and things to skew the message, taking people out of context. I don't think the clip does this.. it's only a photo-essay of the last few years.

And to answer some other posts: yeah, Bush was president at the time, and took action.. that's what the clip shows, as happened in reality. I mean, you can't have a clip on the War on Terrorism with no mention of President Bush. It sure seems like the guy doesn't like Kerry much, but that's a footnote to be treated separately and accepted or rejected on an individual basis. The clip's still a solid summary, overall. That's my opinion, of course.. I didn't post is just so I could shoot down all dissent on the clip's intent.. everyone interprets art differently, and I'm not trying to force an opinion, especially since I don't know the guy who made it. ;)

What the hell is this 'Lost Planet' nut-job harping on about? The movie was comical, while also carrying along with it a serious message. Plain and simple.Now that's funny coming from you of all people. Clue for you, even if your mother calls you that regularly, nut-job is not a term of enderment.

I've never seen any of his work, but I hear that he often edits interviews and things to skew the message, taking people out of context. I don't think the clip does this.. it's only a photo-essay of the last few years.

And to answer some other posts: yeah, Bush was president at the time, and took action.. that's what the clip shows, as happened in reality. I mean, you can't have a clip on the War on Terrorism with no mention of President Bush. It sure seems like the guy doesn't like Kerry much, but that's a footnote to be treated separately and accepted or rejected on an individual basis. The clip's still a solid summary, overall. That's my opinion, of course.. I didn't post is just so I could shoot down all dissent on the clip's intent.. everyone interprets art differently, and I'm not trying to force an opinion, especially since I don't know the guy who made it. ;)

Yeah it's true.. I saw the first movie and it was just a bunch of hi-ho hippy Canada glamorization hogwash.
I got a good laugh out of it.. I thought most of it was a joke.
And on a serious note.. If Canada was is so great why is the immigration exchange rate approximately 7 Canadians to each American?
They want in.

What the hell is this 'Lost Planet' nut-job harping on about? The movie was comical, while also carrying along with it a serious message. Plain and simple.

Don't listen to him. He has a muslim son-in-law and doesn't even try to deny it.

Yeah it's true.. I saw the first movie and it was just a bunch of hi-ho hippy Canada glamorization hogwash.
I got a good laugh out of it.. I thought most of it was a joke.
And on a serious note.. If Canada was is so great why is the immigration exchange rate approximately 7 Canadians to each American?
They want in.

:D Maybe I'll have to rent some of his stuff after all! Sounds classic.

I've never seen any of his work, but I hear that he often edits interviews and things to skew the message, taking people out of context. I don't think the clip does this.. it's only a photo-essay of the last few years.


So he selects the angle from which his side looks better, and presents only that angle.

I have no idea how you can possibly - possibly - think that that flash is a balanced review of the events of the last few years. I'll even grant you that they're all real pictures- that means nothing. I could assemble a collection of photographs of dead and dying Iraqi children due to our invasion, and present that labeled "Operation Iraqi Freedom"- would you say it was only a photo-essay of the invasion?

Hint: To say otherwise is hypocritical.

Hah, leave the politics up to Americans..
Go farm some pigs or whatever the hell you do over in Canada.-- It's obvious you can't run a country
Ohhhh I love the ad hominem attacks, which usually occur when someone is lacking the ability to say something intelligent?

I am witnessing American politics of the worst kind and I have been following politics long before you were born. Obviously you back a President who is totally out of his league since you want to comment on the ability to run a country. Bush's failures will be America's legacy.

A failed economic policy, a failed foreign policy, a failed environmental policy, a failed health care policy, a failed war in Iraq, and a failed war on terrorism.

No, I cannot run a country but then neither can you or your President Bush. :eek:

Don't listen to him. He has a muslim son-in-law and doesn't even try to deny it.He's not my son-in-law, yet anyways, but I'd can't think of a more deserving individual if it should come about. I'm not a bigoted asshole like some posters here, I judge on merit not some idiotic steriotype. So you sir can kiss my ass.

Hah, leave the politics up to Americans..
Go farm some pigs or whatever the hell you do over in Canada.-- It's obvious you can't run a country

Purely out of curiosity- is there anything in the forum guidelines about unbridled bigotry and racial slurs? It really serves no purpose to the discussion...

Now that's funny coming from you of all people. Clue for you, even if your mother calls you that regularly, nut-job is not a term of enderment.
Now that is funny!! :D

Yeah it's true.. I saw the first movie and it was just a bunch of hi-ho hippy Canada glamorization hogwash.
I got a good laugh out of it.. I thought most of it was a joke.
And on a serious note.. If Canada was is so great why is the immigration exchange rate approximately 7 Canadians to each American?
They want in.


Wow, spreading neighborly love, one pointless insult at a time.

Wow, spreading neighborly love, one pointless insult at a time.

Well, he's right about the immigration exchange rate: Canadians are flocking to the U.S.. and with cause. ;)

Well, he's right about the immigration exchange rate: Canadians are flocking to the U.S.. and with cause. ;)

Yeah. Warmth.

Well, he's right about the immigration exchange rate: Canadians are flocking to the U.S.. and with cause. ;)
With cause? Would you care to elaborate as to why? And only the facts please. :D

He's not my son-in-law, yet anyways, but I'd can't think of a more deserving individual if it should come about. I'm not a bigoted asshole like some posters here, I judge on merit not some idiotic steriotype. So you sir can kiss my ass.

Well don't complain when he starts beating your daughter and practicing polygamy like the Qu'raan tells him to.

Did you know Mohammed married, and had sex with, a nine year old girl. Disgusting.

Yeah. Warmth.

I won't dispute that, having moved from Illinois to the west coast. ;)

I don't mean to get started on Canada though - wouldn't be the right thread.

Well don't complain when he starts beating your daughter and practicing polygamy like the Qu'raan tells him to.

Did you know Mohammed married, and had sex with, a nine year old girl. Disgusting.Yeah and Lot screwed his daughters, only idiots like you blindly follow a religion or believe their texts without question. My daughter's boyfriend is an American citizen and judging from your posts, I'd have a hell of a lot more to worry about if she was dating someone like you.

Hmmm,
The piece never made any pretention that it was fair, equal or unbiased. It is an editorialized piece. It is very clear that it is meant to support the President, which it did.

So he selects the angle from which his side looks better, and presents only that angle.

I have no idea how you can possibly - possibly - think that that flash is a balanced review of the events of the last few years. I'll even grant you that they're all real pictures- that means nothing. I could assemble a collection of photographs of dead and dying Iraqi children due to our invasion, and present that labeled "Operation Iraqi Freedom"- would you say it was only a photo-essay of the invasion?

Hint: To say otherwise is hypocritical.
welcome to poltics don't bother wiping the mud off your shoes we sling that round here, poltics are firmly about which ever side comes out with the least mud moore threw a bucket full this is our way of getting back.

I thought the line "He decides who [sic] to free, and who [sic] to blame" was more insightful than intended. He decided to blame Iraq for 9/11, and to free Iraq while taking away US citizens' freedoms.

Yeah and Lot screwed his daughters, only idiots like you blindly follow a religion or believe their texts without question. My daughter's boyfriend is an American citizen and judging from your posts, I'd have a hell of a lot more to worry about if she was dating someone like you.

Actually, Lot's daughters got him drunk and screwed him because they thought they were the only people left on eart and were trying to save the human race. It was an act of desperation. That's a little different to finding yourself a nine year old concubine.

And name me one christian church today that recommends the practice of polygamy or wife beating. You can hardly say the same for Islam now can you?


:rolleyes:

I thought the line "He decides who [sic] to free, and who [sic] to blame" was more insightful than intended. He decided to blame Iraq for 9/11, and to free Iraq while taking away US citizens' freedoms.
mind telling me what happend last week (or the week before that) in afganhistam, or what freedoms he stole.

Iraq for 9/11,

One example? You won't find it.

Well, he's right about the immigration exchange rate: Canadians are flocking to the U.S.. and with cause. ;)

Yup, I blame it on their health care system, it's more of a corruption than people give it credit for.

Actually, Lot's daughters got him drunk and screwed him because they thought they were the only people left on eart and were trying to save the human race. It was an act of desperation. That's a little different to finding yourself a nine year old concubine.

And name me one christian church today that recommends the practice of polygamy or wife beating. You can hardly say the same for Islam now can you?


:rolleyes:Remember what I just posted about people who believe religious texts or blindly follow religions. I know the story of Lot, I also know the story of little red riding hood and give it as much credit for being factual as I do most of the old testament. Islam is the largest religion on this planet, despite having as many flaws as most other religions, so there must be something to it. Just like Christianity, it's followers run the spectrum from extremist wacko's to moral upstanding people of peace. You can bash it all you want, but in the end you just show your own ignorance.

One example? You won't find it.
Seek and ye shall find. Actually, I found this awhile ago:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

President Bush and members of his administration suggested a link between the two in the months before the war in Iraq. Claims of possible links have never been proven, however.

Or if you want to look at President Bush's speech when the war on Iraq began, you can see the veiled message trying to link Iraq with 9/11:

The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

Next.......

mind telling me what happend last week (or the week before that) in afganhistam, or what freedoms he stole.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding recent events in Afghanistan.
The freedoms he stole were mainly stolen by the patriot act, and include the right to privacy and habeas corpus.

One example? You won't find it.

How many times did he say that Saddam had links to Al-Qaeda?
No, he didn't ever explicitly say that Iraq caused 9/11, but it is clear (to me) that he relies on the public believing that Iraq was responsible.
It [the 9/11 commission] contradicts remarks by the US vice-president about Saddam Hussein's "long-established ties" with al-Qaeda.

Iraq's alleged links with al-Qaeda were part of the justification the Bush administration gave for invading Iraq.
Vice President Dick Cheney, anxious to defend the White House foreign policy amid ongoing violence in Iraq, stunned intelligence analysts and even members of his own administration [. . .] by failing to dismiss a widely discredited claim: that Saddam Hussein might have played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks.
In his prime-time press conference [. . .], which focused almost solely on Iraq, President Bush mentioned Sept. 11 eight times. He referred to Saddam Hussein many more times than that, often in the same breath with Sept. 11.

Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president. Still, the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists among much of the American public: that the Iraqi dictator did play a direct role in the attacks. A New York Times/CBS poll [. . .] shows that 45 percent of Americans believe Mr. Hussein was "personally involved" in Sept. 11.

Seek and ye shall find. Actually, I found this awhile ago:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

President Bush and members of his administration suggested a link between the two in the months before the war in Iraq. Claims of possible links have never been proven, however.

Or if you want to look at President Bush's speech when the war on Iraq began, you can see the veiled message trying to link Iraq with 9/11:

The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

Next.......

You realize that quote says absolutely nothing about Iraq being responsible for 9/11, right? We knew right after 9/11 where the hijackers came from, it was common knowledge. People crying about being misled are plain wrong. They've been misled only by the President's political opponents trying to create outrage from nothing, just like with the draft, and social security.

You realize that quote says absolutely nothing about Iraq being responsible for 9/11, right? We knew right after 9/11 where the hijackers came from, it was common knowledge. People crying about being misled are plain wrong. They've been misled only by the President's political opponents trying to create outrage from nothing, just like with the draft, and social security.

Hear, Hear.

Well, he's right about the immigration exchange rate: Canadians are flocking to the U.S.. and with cause. ;)

His being correct on a stat about immigration doesn't excuse a random 'verbal' attack on a neighboring country. And I could just as easily bring up stats on per captia violence.

And just to let you know, this isn't an attack on America, my father is a US citizen (from Texas to be precise) and lives there at this time. I just don't like people throwing in random insults for fun.

Remember what I just posted about people who believe religious texts or blindly follow religions. I know the story of Lot, I also know the story of little red riding hood and give it as much credit for being factual as I do most of the old testament. Islam is the largest religion on this planet, despite having as many flaws as most other religions, so there must be something to it. Just like Christianity, it's followers run the spectrum from extremist wacko's to moral upstanding people of peace. You can bash it all you want, but in the end you just show your own ignorance.

No dude, there is nothing to Islam. And the only reason why so many people follow it is that because most of the countries where muslims are in control they execute you for renouncing it - as per the direct orders of the Qu'raan.

I will tenatively admit that in the past christainity in the past was far more violent - although it was a lot less violent than Islam - but the fact is once christians read the bible for themselves they mostly adopted the ethical system of Jesus. Unlike muslims who follow the teaching of a psychotic half senile pedophile.

Today an extremist Christain is a person who goes to the third world to spread the ministry of Jesus with bibles, textbooks and medicines: they call themselves missionaries. An extremist muslim is a person who straps a bomb to themselves and blows up school children: they call themselves martyrs.

Ask your son in law if he condemns the actions of the homocide bombers. I bet you won't because you know you won't like the answer.

I thought it was a joke, what with the music and putting the word "ISLAM" in front of pictures of terrorists. Then I realized it was being serious, now I cry for whoever made that, for they have been cursed with stupidity beyond my wildest dreams. I like that song though.

No dude, there is nothing to Islam. And the only reason why so many people follow it is that because most of the countries where muslims are in control they execute you for renouncing it - as per the direct orders of the Qu'raan.

I will tenatively admit that in the past christainity in the past was far more violent - although it was a lot less violent than Islam - but the fact is once christians read the bible for themselves they mostly adopted the ethical system of Jesus. Unlike muslims who follow the teaching of a psychotic half senile pedophile.

Today an extremist Christain is a person who goes to the third world to spread the ministry of Jesus with bibles, textbooks and medicines: they call themselves missionaries. An extremist muslim is a person who straps a bomb to themselves and blows up school children: they call themselves martyrs.

Ask your son in law if he condemns the actions of the homocide bombers. I bet you won't because you know you won't like the answer.

Well said. Who knows though.. most Canadians are sick people.

No dude, there is nothing to Islam. And the only reason why so many people follow it is that because most of the countries where muslims are in control they execute you for renouncing it - as per the direct orders of the Qu'raan.

I will tenatively admit that in the past christainity in the past was far more violent - although it was a lot less violent than Islam - but the fact is once christians read the bible for themselves they mostly adopted the ethical system of Jesus. Unlike muslims who follow the teaching of a psychotic half senile pedophile.

Today an extremist Christain is a person who goes to the third world to spread the ministry of Jesus with bibles, textbooks and medicines: they call themselves missionaries. An extremist muslim is a person who straps a bomb to themselves and blows up school children: they call themselves martyrs.

Ask your son in law if he condemns the actions of the homocide bombers. I bet you won't because you know you won't like the answer.

You disgust me.

I apologize that I can't discuss the topic in more depth, but my emotions are too much for me.

You realize that quote says absolutely nothing about Iraq being responsible for 9/11, right? We knew right after 9/11 where the hijackers came from, it was common knowledge. People crying about being misled are plain wrong. They've been misled only by the President's political opponents trying to create outrage from nothing, just like with the draft, and social security.
Well if you can't read between the lines, I can't help you out. Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11 even happened and that has been documented, and the speech that Bush gave to the nation during the start of the Iraq war says it all:

The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

This puts the attacks of 9/11 firmly in the minds of Americans.

Well said. Who knows though.. most Canadians are sick people.

Well that's 'cos most Canadians have renounced Christianity and condone the muslim menace. If they got back on track everyone would love them again,

No dude, there is nothing to Islam. And the only reason why so many people follow it is that because most of the countries where muslims are in control they execute you for renouncing it - as per the direct orders of the Qu'raan.

I will tenatively admit that in the past christainity in the past was far more violent - although it was a lot less violent than Islam - but the fact is once christians read the bible for themselves they mostly adopted the ethical system of Jesus. Unlike muslims who follow the teaching of a psychotic half senile pedophile.

Today an extremist Christain is a person who goes to the third world to spread the ministry of Jesus with bibles, textbooks and medicines: they call themselves missionaries. An extremist muslim is a person who straps a bomb to themselves and blows up school children: they call themselves martyrs.

Ask your son in law if he condemns the actions of the homocide bombers. I bet you won't because you know you won't like the answer.You've already proved yourself a bigotted idiot, yet you continue to spew drivel. I don't need to say a thing more, you're proving my point just fine, and I won't kick myself later for wasting time argueing pointlessly with a moron. Knock yourself out.

No dude, there is nothing to Islam. And the only reason why so many people follow it is that because most of the countries where muslims are in control they execute you for renouncing it - as per the direct orders of the Qu'raan.

I will tenatively admit that in the past christainity in the past was far more violent - although it was a lot less violent than Islam - but the fact is once christians read the bible for themselves they mostly adopted the ethical system of Jesus. Unlike muslims who follow the teaching of a psychotic half senile pedophile.

Today an extremist Christain is a person who goes to the third world to spread the ministry of Jesus with bibles, textbooks and medicines: they call themselves missionaries. An extremist muslim is a person who straps a bomb to themselves and blows up school children: they call themselves martyrs.

Ask your son in law if he condemns the actions of the homocide bombers. I bet you won't because you know you won't like the answer.

Oh, fuck you. Asshole.

Islam is just as decent as Christianity is.

They're both full of shit.

An extremist christian is one who lynchs jews and anyone who isn't white.

Islam is on the rise, dumbass. Because people are converting out of their free will.

And by your logic, christianity is just as stupid. It's a bunch of people following some crazy-ass, rebel idiot who got himself killed.


Well that's 'cos most Canadians have renounced Christianity and condone the muslim menace. If they got back on track everyone would love them again,

Once again, I say: fuck you.

Everyone loves the netherlands, and they arn't exactly the most christian of nations.

You disgust me.

I apologize that I can't discuss the topic in more depth, but my emotions are too much for me.

Are you saying that mohammed was not, in fact, a pedophile. The Qu'raan is rather clear on that point.

Are you also saying that the Qu'raan does not command the faithful to execute those who renounce islam.

Are you further saying that the world is not full of prominent muslim clerics who not only condone homocide bombers, but in fact assure them that their vile acts will guarantee a place in heaven.

Name me one single prominent contemporary Christian leader that exhorts other Christains to the type of acts of violence that are so common in the Isalmic world today.

If this disgusts you I recommend you move to an Islamic state where the internet and all other media are censored so you won't have to deal with it anymore.

Well that's 'cos most Canadians have renounced Christianity and condone the muslim menace. If they got back on track everyone would love them again,
Flamebait..... :eek:

You've already proved yourself a bigotted idiot, yet you continue to spew drivel. I don't need to say a thing more, you're proving my point just fine, and I won't kick myself later for wasting time argueing pointlessly with a moron. Knock yourself out.

Do you actually know anything about islam, or do you just go off the pap that the propaganda section feeds you?

Are you saying that mohammed was not, in fact, a pedophile. The Qu'raan is rather clear on that point.
And over in the OT, God said to go rape women. Point?

Are you also saying that the Qu'raan does not command the faithful to execute those who renounce islam.
I know that I'M saying that the Bible tells you to do the exact same.

Are you further saying that the world is not full of prominent muslim clerics who not only condone homocide bombers, but in fact assure them that their vile acts will guarantee a place in heaven.
Christianity is just as bad

Name me one single prominent contemporary Christian leader that exhorts other Christains to the type of acts of violence that are so common in the Isalmic world today.
Fred Phelps. The KKK Grand Dragon. There, you got two.

If this disgusts you I recommend you move to an Islamic state where the internet and all other media are censored so you won't have to deal with it anymore.

Thank God we live in an unreligious counry

Do you actually know anything about islam, or do you just go off the pap that the propaganda section feeds you?

Why don't you answer to some of MY posts...

Well if you can't read between the lines, I can't help you out. Bush wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11 even happened and that has been documented, and the speech that Bush gave to the nation during the start of the Iraq war says it all:

The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

This puts the attacks of 9/11 firmly in the minds of Americans.

So.. defeating an enemy to prevent terrorist attacks is the same as blaming them for 9/11, even after we've destroyed the regime in Afghanistan that the President clearly put the blame on for the attack? Saying that Iraq was a threat to us, and that getting rid of Saddam will prevent future terrorism just isn't the same - you could take it to mean 9/11, the first WTC attack, Oklahoma City, etc. if you follow that line.

So.. defeating an enemy to prevent terrorist attacks is the same as blaming them for 9/11, even after we've destroyed the regime in Afghanistan that the President clearly put the blame on for the attack? Saying that Iraq was a threat to us, and that getting rid of Saddam will prevent future terrorism just isn't the same - you could take it to mean 9/11, the first WTC attack, Oklahoma City, etc. if you follow that line.


What enemy have we defeated?

Saddam?

He wasnt a threat, remember?
Donald Rumsfeld even said so.

Bin Ladan and Al-Qeada?

We havent beat them have we?

No. they still operate in Afghanistan.

So.. defeating an enemy to prevent terrorist attacks is the same as blaming them for 9/11, even after we've destroyed the regime in Afghanistan that the President clearly put the blame on for the attack? Saying that Iraq was a threat to us, and that getting rid of Saddam will prevent future terrorism just isn't the same - you could take it to mean 9/11, the first WTC attack, Oklahoma City, etc. if you follow that line.
Iraq was never a threat to the US and you know it. Bush and company painted a clear message that Iraq and al queda were linked and the people of America bought it, hook line and sinker. That is why over 70% of Americans believed that Iraq was linked with the 9/11 attacks, or do Americans just make stuff up?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link

What enemy have we defeated?

Saddam?

He wasnt a threat, remember?
Donald Rumsfeld even said so.

Bin Ladan and Al-Qeada?

We havent beat them have we?

No. they still operate in Afghanistan.

He has defeated the horrible evil balanced budget. :)

What enemy have we defeated?

Saddam?

He wasnt a threat, remember?
Donald Rumsfeld even said so.

Bin Ladan and Al-Qeada?

We havent beat them have we?

No. they still operate in Afghanistan.

Missed the Presidential debates? There's no debate as to whether Saddam was a threat - he was, and even Kerry's not taking the tinhat side. My point is: no one blamed Iraq for 9/11.. ever.

Missed the Presidential debates? There's no debate as to whether Saddam was a threat - he was, and even Kerry's not taking the tinhat side. My point is: no one blamed Iraq for 9/11.. ever.


Tell me.

In what way was Saddam a threat to us or our interests?

When even Donald Rumsfeld, says that Iraq has had no WMD's since as early as 1991...How do you reckon the Hussein was a threat.

And your lying to yourself if you dont believe that Bush made the attempt to portray Iraq as having something to do with it.

Missed the Presidential debates? There's no debate as to whether Saddam was a threat - he was, and even Kerry's not taking the tinhat side. My point is: no one blamed Iraq for 9/11.. ever.
Then 70% of Americans live in lala land?

I really don't think you are paying attention?

So Bush is doing Irish music nowadays?

And over in the OT, God said to go rape women. Point?

Did Jesus ever command his followers to rape women? No. Or was he portrayed as a sexual pervert. No. Mohammed was, that's my point.

I know that I'M saying that the Bible tells you to do the exact same.

No. Nowhere in the bible will you see a verse that commands christians to literally execute Christians for renouncing Jesus.


Christianity is just as bad

No it isn't


Fred Phelps. The KKK Grand Dragon. There, you got two.

I said prominent Christian clerics. They are in no way prominent. And they are condemened by the ones who are. Even islam moderates like Yusuf al-Qaradawi support the Al-Aqsa martyrs brigade.

Thank God we live in an unreligious counry

It is now, wasn't when it was founded.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding recent events in Afghanistan.
The freedoms he stole were mainly stolen by the patriot act, and include the right to privacy and habeas corpus.
prove it.

Tell me.

In what way was Saddam a threat to us or our interests?

When even Donald Rumsfeld, says that Iraq has had no WMD's since as early as 1991...How do you reckon the Hussein was a threat.

And your lying to yourself if you dont believe that Bush made the attempt to portray Iraq as having something to do with it.

The UN had said Saddam had WMD until he stopped allowing inspections. It was the Duelfer report that concluded Saddam had sent his WMD to Syria after '91. However, it also said that Saddam never dismantled the heirarchy he had assembled to produce WMD and was intent on rebuilding the program. Saddam himself said so in prison recently, that he wanted WMD to threaten Iran. Whether Rumsfeld deferred to the Duelfer report is immaterial.. no Duelfer report was possible before we took out Saddam, and the intelligence at the time told another story. Saddam was sitting on 500 tons of uranium, for one, had the capabilites and personnel, and only let inspectors in once we had troops in the area..

The UN had said Saddam had WMD until he stopped allowing inspections. It was the Duelfer report that concluded Saddam had sent his WMD to Syria after '91. However, it also said that Saddam never dismantled the heirarchy he had assembled to produce WMD and was intent on rebuilding the program. Saddam himself said so in prison recently, that he wanted WMD to threaten Iran. Whether Rumsfeld deferred to the Duelfer report is immaterial.. no Duelfer report was possible before we took out Saddam, and the intelligence at the time told another story. Saddam was sitting on 500 tons of uranium, for one, had the capabilites and personnel, and only let inspectors in once we had troops in the area..


Right.

But we know now, that none of that was true.

He in fact, had no such things, since 91.

So then..youve failed to tell me how he was a threat to anyone.

Iraq was never a threat to the US and you know it. Bush and company painted a clear message that Iraq and al queda were linked and the people of America bought it, hook line and sinker. That is why over 70% of Americans believed that Iraq was linked with the 9/11 attacks, or do Americans just make stuff up?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
hey man please don't stick words and thoughts in peoples mouths. (My project to collect full hardy jerk liberal screen names is almost complete all I need now is a bit more evidence to prove a few people.)

The UN had said Saddam had WMD until he stopped allowing inspections. It was the Duelfer report that concluded Saddam had sent his WMD to Syria after '91. However, it also said that Saddam never dismantled the heirarchy he had assembled to produce WMD and was intent on rebuilding the program. Saddam himself said so in prison recently, that he wanted WMD to threaten Iran. Whether Rumsfeld deferred to the Duelfer report is immaterial.. no Duelfer report was possible before we took out Saddam, and the intelligence at the time told another story. Saddam was sitting on 500 tons of uranium, for one, had the capabilites and personnel, and only let inspectors in once we had troops in the area..
Here we go again for the 1000th time:

Then why did Bush violate UN Resolution 1441 by invading Iraq?

Then 70% of Americans live in lala land?

I really don't think you are paying attention?

First, it's not 70%.. more like somewhere in the 40's in most polls. Similar to the percentage that believe the moon landing was faked or that JFK had multiple killers.. some rumors never die, if there's a shred of evidence, such as Saddam's 9/11 murals and the belief among his own people that he had a part in it, along with the fact that terrorists had refuge in his country, and bin Laden's visits there in the late '90s. They're wrong, and probably never tried to find out the truth.. many see all terrorists the same, and that would include Saddam and the 9/11 hijackers.

The UN had said Saddam had WMD until he stopped allowing inspections. It was the Duelfer report that concluded Saddam had sent his WMD to Syria after '91. However, it also said that Saddam never dismantled the heirarchy he had assembled to produce WMD and was intent on rebuilding the program. Saddam himself said so in prison recently, that he wanted WMD to threaten Iran. Whether Rumsfeld deferred to the Duelfer report is immaterial.. no Duelfer report was possible before we took out Saddam, and the intelligence at the time told another story. Saddam was sitting on 500 tons of uranium, for one, had the capabilites and personnel, and only let inspectors in once we had troops in the area..
Everyone WANTS a nuke. Doesn't mean they have one

Did Jesus ever command his followers to rape women? No. Or was he portrayed as a sexual pervert. No. Mohammed was, that's my point.
But yahweh did. He's still your god, yes?



No. Nowhere in the bible will you see a verse that commands christians to literally execute Christians for renouncing Jesus.
If it's in your holy book, it's part of your religion.

And there's many parts of the OT that tell you to kill many, many people.





I said prominent Christian clerics. They are in no way prominent. And they are condemened by the ones who are. Even islam moderates like Yusuf al-Qaradawi support the Al-Aqsa martyrs brigade.
If we're judging a religion based on their extremists, then we're doing it to BOTH religions.



It is now, wasn't when it was founded.

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli

Here we go again for the 1000th time:

Then why did Bush violate UN Resolution 1441 by invading Iraq?

Because a few nations on the security council decided they would never accept a resolution that would authorize force.. ever. And we had been in the Mid East for over a year waiting for inspections to at least proceed unimpeded. And finally, because the intelligence seemed solid, was supported even by the countries that refused to support the war, and the UN never had authority over our decision.

First, it's not 70%.. more like somewhere in the 40's in most polls. Similar to the percentage that believe the moon landing was faked or that JFK had multiple killers.. some rumors never die, if there's a shred of evidence, such as Saddam's 9/11 murals and the belief among his own people that he had a part in it, along with the fact that terrorists had refuge in his country, and bin Laden's visits there in the late '90s. They're wrong, and probably never tried to find out the truth.. many see all terrorists the same, and that would include Saddam and the 9/11 hijackers.
Now I know you are not paying attention!!

It WAS 70%

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link

Everyone WANTS a nuke. Doesn't mean they have one

Some want nukes, but when terrorists want nukes, it gets kinda sticky.

Because a few nations on the security council decided they would never accept a resolution that would authorize force.. ever. And we had been in the Mid East for over a year waiting for inspections to at least proceed unimpeded. And finally, because the intelligence seemed solid, was supported even by the countries that refused to support the war, and the UN never had authority over our decision.
Intelligence was not solid. And the UN DOES have an authorityover the US invading other countries. It's what the UN does. Preventing "innocent" to be invaded for false reasons

Right.

But we know now, that none of that was true.

He in fact, had no such things, since 91.

So then..youve failed to tell me how he was a threat to anyone.

Bah, all else aside.. would you have really wanted to risk it? Or keep someone with the obvious potential (and will) to do so? Saddam is rotting away in a Jail cell, the world is a safer place.. Bush acted quick and set an example for nations like North Korea to follow

Some want nukes, but when terrorists want nukes, it gets kinda sticky.
And who are you to define "terrorist" and to define "freedom fighter"?

Whatever my point was that Saddam claiming to WANT WMD's, did not make him HAVE WMD's

Because a few nations on the security council decided they would never accept a resolution that would authorize force.. ever. And we had been in the Mid East for over a year waiting for inspections to at least proceed unimpeded. And finally, because the intelligence seemed solid, was supported even by the countries that refused to support the war, and the UN never had authority over our decision.
It was game over when Bush kicked the UN inspectors out. World opinion of the US plummeted and millions marched in protest.

Now you have a quagmire. Some "folk hero"?

BTW, "Shock and Awe" didn't win too many nods of agreement either.

Neither did Abu Ghraib.

Bah, all else aside.. would you have really wanted to risk it? Or keep someone with the obvious potential (and will) to do so? Saddam is rotting away in a Jail cell, the world is a safer place.. Bush acted quick and set an example for nations like North Korea to follow

...Wrong country to mention. Bush completely ignored N.Korea to attack Iraq. That's really not that great of an example.

But really now, what kind of example IS that?!

"If we don't like you, we'll lie about you then kick yer ass-so you better KISS ours!"

Now I know you are not paying attention!!

It WAS 70%

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link

Yeah, and I call BS on that. It's an outlier.

42%, Newsweek.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000628367


The highest % was the Washington Post, which had 69% saying he was "very" or "somewhat" involved in the attack.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/nation/9-11/stories/091803dnintbush.7e2ff.html

That's the one from the other link, USA today.

It's a matter of what question you ask. Some just see all terrorism as related.

Some polls lump "Did Saddam support Al-Queda" in with it.

Intelligence was not solid. And the UN DOES have an authorityover the US invading other countries. It's what the UN does. Preventing "innocent" to be invaded for false reasons

Beh, the UN is impotent. The US is the UN anyhow.

Bah, all else aside.. would you have really wanted to risk it? Or keep someone with the obvious potential (and will) to do so? Saddam is rotting away in a Jail cell, the world is a safer place.. Bush acted quick and set an example for nations like North Korea to follow


If it meant sparing tens of thousands of lives, and 300 billion dollars on what turn out to be a dismal failure, and possibly an impossible task of enforcing a democracy upon those that dont want it?

Yeah, I'd risk it.

Remember, in the same report Rummy quoted, it clearly showed that the sanctions against Hussein were working.

...Wrong country to mention. Bush completely ignored N.Korea to attack Iraq. That's really not that great of an example.

But really now, what kind of example IS that?!

"If we don't like you, we'll lie about you then kick yer ass-so you better KISS ours!"

Hah, well the gooks are sure keeping their mouthes shut now.. eh?
Just last week they agreed to new talks.
Bush ain't gonna give in either, unlike Clinton

Beh, the UN is impotent. The US is the UN anyhow.
And that's the thing that's fucked up too. More fucked up is invading countries for false reasons. Still does not justify the war

(oh yeah, and sending too few troops so there are still needless caualties today)

Yeah, and I call BS on that. It's an outlier.

42%, Newsweek.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000628367


The highest % was the Washington Post, which had 69% saying he was "very" or "somewhat" involved in the attack.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/nation/9-11/stories/091803dnintbush.7e2ff.html

That's the one from the other link, USA today.

It's a matter of what question you ask. Some just see all terrorism as related.

Well you can fudge the numbers all night long for all I care.

The USA Today Poll was done in June 2003, just after the US invasion of Iraq.

Beh, the UN is impotent. The US is the UN anyhow.


No.

The U.N is impotent becuase the U.S refuses to co-operate with them.
If we were willing to do so, we could actually be the "World Police" that we wish we were, and god forbid, have the approval of the U.N.

Why would that be a bad thing?

If it meant sparing tens of thousands of lives, and 300 billion dollars on what turn out to be a dismal failure, and possibly an impossible task of enforcing a democracy upon those that dont want it?

Yeah, I'd risk it.

Remember, in the same report Rummy quoted, it clearly showed that the sanctions against Hussein were working.

Sanctions were working how? No inspections were being done, billions were being funneled into the pockets of Saddam, France and Germany, and more people were starving to death than ever, countless more than today.

Also, 300 billion is just wrong. Try www.factcheck.org. Kerry tried to pull that crap in the debates.

And no poll ever taken in Iraq has said the Iraqis would refuse democracy.

Well you can fudge the numbers all night long for all I care.

The USA Today Poll was done in June 2003, just after the US invasion of Iraq.

The 70 includes people who answered that Saddam supported or harbored Al-Queda, which is not the same as ordering 9/11.

No.

The U.N is impotent becuase the U.S refuses to co-operate with them.
If we were willing to do so, we could actually be the "World Police" that we wish we were, and god forbid, have the approval of the U.N.

Why would that be a bad thing?

KELHPTOPIA = Chuck Cesil?????

Sanctions were working how? No inspections were being done, billions were being funneled into the pockets of Saddam, France and Germany, and more people were starving to death than ever, countless more than today.

Also, 300 billion is just wrong. Try www.factcheck.org. Kerry tried to pull that crap in the debates.

And no poll ever taken in Iraq has said the Iraqis would refuse democracy.
Oh noooo!

France and Germany get money? :eek:

Sanctions were working how? No inspections were being done, billions were being funneled into the pockets of Saddam, France and Germany, and more people were starving to death than ever, countless more than today.

Also, 300 billion is just wrong. Try www.factcheck.org. Kerry tried to pull that crap in the debates.

And no poll ever taken in Iraq has said the Iraqis would refuse democracy.

Hey..you disagree that sanctions were working?

Argue with your fellow Conservatives, namely, The Secretary of Defense.

You still havent shown me how Saddam was a threat to America , or our interests.

Oh noooo!

France and Germany get money? :eek:

Illegally, in exchange for helping Saddam launder billions. We shut them down.

Illegally, in exchange for helping Saddam launder billions. We shut them down.
*cough* bullshit *cough* propaganda *cough*

*cough* bullshit *cough* propaganda *cough*

Koffi Annan admitted it, but denied his son was in on the crime. Talk to him.

Koffi Annan admitted it, but denied his son was in on the crime. Talk to him.
I just spoke to Kofi on the phone. He said it was a load of crap.

*cough* bullshit *cough* propaganda *cough*


Hey.

Dont distract him, he still hasnt answered the question.

I just spoke to Kofi on the phone. He said it was a load of crap.

Then he lied to you, read a newspaper. :p The oil-for-food scandal discredits the UN categorically.

Hey.

Dont distract him, he still hasnt answered the question.
Sorry. But I don't think he can make a point that is actually true or justified unless he says: "1+1=2"

Then he lied to you, read a newspaper. :p The oil-for-food scandal discredits the UN categorically.
I did. You read an objective newspaper

Sorry. But I don't think he can make a point that is actually true or justified unless he says: "1+1=2"


Dont say that....he might get all discouraged, and not even try.

What fun would that be?

I did. You read an objective newspaper

You're saying the Oil for Food scandal never happened, or what?

You're saying the Oil for Food scandal never happened, or what?


Your changing the subject.

You're saying the Oil for Food scandal never happened, or what?
And the US supported it too :eek:

And the US supported it too :eek:

Not true. http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2618260

We failed to stop it, or rather, the UN failed to respond to our complaints. (because they were in on it)

I'm pro-Bush and pro-Iraqi war, but that flash movie is damn scary.

As for you anti-Bush folks, try watching it again. Only, imagine that the guy who made it was one of the most brilliant and sly satirists out there. Then, remember what that Johnny Cash song was originally all about...

Not true. http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2618260

We failed to stop it, or rather, the UN failed to respond to our complaints. (because they were in on it)
It's not on the subject. Whatever.

Bush did not have a legitimate reason to go to war. Period. The most powerful man in the world should be well informed and not act on feelings and emotions of the people. Bush still is that most powerful man. He should not have gone to war. Ergo he is a bad President.

Bush did not have a legitimate reason to go to war.

That Saddam Hussein was a sociopath was reason enough. Leftists should be ashamed for attempting to defend this fellow Ba'ath Leftist, even at this late date.

The most powerful man in the world should be well informed and not act on feelings and emotions of the people.

Bush did act on the information at hand. Saddam Hussein should have been deposed in 1996, when Hussein Kamel's revelations were confirmed. His ouster was long overdue, mainly because of the advocacy of corrupt UN members, in particular France - and the Left, who used Saddam's Iraq to bankroll friendly pro-Left terrorist groups like the PFLP.

My support for Bush is still unshaken. His pursuit of this war in Iraq was legal and just.

But that doesn't make the lead-in flash video any less unnerving...


...The hairs on your arm will stand up.
At the terror in each sip and in each sup.
For you partake of that last offered cup,
Or disappear into the potter's ground.
When the man comes around... :(

I can't believe some ppl think the flash movie is unbiased. I mean, it has a song written about the Apocalypse and the Second Coming and tries to link this with Bush!
FFS!
Are we meant to believe him to be the Saviour now?
Imagine the outcry if someone did one of Kerry with a reading of the Lord's pray (deliver us from evil...)? Yet somehow it's ok to imply Bush is heaven-sent?
What depresses me most is that I really like that song. :( (thought it suited the starting to 'Dawn of Dead' better though)

Bush did not have a legitimate reason to go to war.

That Saddam Hussein was a sociopath was reason enough. Leftists should be ashamed for attempting to defend this fellow Ba'ath Leftist, even at this late date.
I don't think that any American is defending Hussein, but Hussein was never a reason until all the other reasons were proven wrong.

The most powerful man in the world should be well informed and not act on feelings and emotions of the people.

Bush did act on the information at hand. Saddam Hussein should have been deposed in 1996, when Hussein Kamel's revelations were confirmed. His ouster was long overdue, mainly because of the advocacy of corrupt UN members, in particular France - and the Left, who used Saddam's Iraq to bankroll friendly pro-Left terrorist groups like the PFLP.
This isn't a Left v Right thing; don't turn it into one.

Arab blood ain't worth dirt, let alone oil.

Arab blood ain't worth dirt, let alone oil.Is it just me or has there been an influx of asshole n00b's lately? Or is it just the same jerks being deated and reincarnating themselves to spread even more ignorant slurs?

Bush did not have a legitimate reason to go to war.

That Saddam Hussein was a sociopath was reason enough. Leftists should be ashamed for attempting to defend this fellow Ba'ath Leftist, even at this late date.

The most powerful man in the world should be well informed and not act on feelings and emotions of the people.

Bush did act on the information at hand. Saddam Hussein should have been deposed in 1996, when Hussein Kamel's revelations were confirmed. His ouster was long overdue, mainly because of the advocacy of corrupt UN members, in particular France - and the Left, who used Saddam's Iraq to bankroll friendly pro-Left terrorist groups like the PFLP.

My support for Bush is still unshaken. His pursuit of this war in Iraq was legal and just.

But that doesn't make the lead-in flash video any less unnerving...


...The hairs on your arm will stand up.
At the terror in each sip and in each sup.
For you partake of that last offered cup,
Or disappear into the potter's ground.
When the man comes around... :(

http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/animalbiotech/images/sheep.jpg

Is it just me or has there been an influx of asshole n00b's lately? Or is it just the same jerks being deated and reincarnating themselves to spread even more ignorant slurs?
I do believe that the puppet regime is extremely active?

A lot of familiar posters are posting less than normal, or not at all and a whole new breed of puppets have been launched in Sept. and Oct.

Two n00bs joined the other night who were one and the same. I do believe that one of the nations got deated and right away there was his/her replacement LOL. Both are/were extremely obnoxious. :eek: