NationStates Jolt Archive

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!

Even today, those who are most assertive and strong in their faith, men like George W Bush and General William Boykin are essentially professional killers.

Christians in europe and their religion did genocide on the native peoples of south america and christians have been responsible for untold death in asia and africa.

Christianity even condones slavery!

In fact, the new testament even goes so far as to call it a "shame" for women to speak in church!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


I think I know what the real shame is!

Well you could always go live in Saudi Arabia - I hear there are not many christians around there. Then you can be happy and free from opression.

Well you could always go live in Saudi Arabia - I hear there are not many christians around there. Then you can be happy and free from opression.


No thanks, its a country with lots of religious fundementalists.

I'd like to go somewhere civilized, like France.

No thanks, its a country with lots of religious fundementalists.

I'd like to go somewhere civilized, like France.

But that's like 80% catholic, and as you just said you think those people are evil. How about Indonesia? not many christians there eh?.

:rolleyes: Why do you blame a people for the way they interpret their faith.?

But that's like 80% catholic, and as you just said you think those people are evil. How about Indonesia? not many christians there eh?.


Nominally catholic yes, just like how lots of people in holland are nominally protestant. France actually made it so christians cant wear their little cross dolls around their necks in public school anymore.

Nominally catholic yes, just like how lots of people in holland are nominally protestant. France actually made it so christians cant wear their little cross dolls around their necks in public school anymore.

I know, how about the people's rep. of china. They are officially against all religion, they even cracked down on the buddhist menace in tibet. That sounds right up your street.

Nominally catholic yes, just like how lots of people in holland are nominally protestant. France actually made it so christians cant wear their little cross dolls around their necks in public school anymore.

Stupid crucifixes and their Nazi-esque intents! How DARE they try to express their religious faiths! UGH!

"Christianity even condones . . . the stoning to death of adulturers!" (New Granada)

To learn more about this and correct your information, please read John 8:2-11.

Thanks!

I know, how about the people's rep. of china. They are officially against all religion, they even cracked down on the buddhist menace in tibet. That sounds right up your street.


Just because christianity is a religion of misogynism and death doesnt mean china has good human rights. Quite a non sequiteur if I say so myself! Learn to make sense man!

"Christianity even condones . . . the stoning to death of adulturers!" (New Granada)

To learn more about this and correct your information, please read John 8:2-11.

Thanks!

Okeedokey, so Jesus only lets perfect people stone women to death.

I shall edit my post to reflect that.

Still a shame they arent allowed to talk in church, or learn at church.

It may sound incredulous, but I really think Christianity is one big misundestood and abused faith. On a personal level, we have our own private beliefs, and yet society dilutes our principles with 'moralistic intentions'.

I really believe that the point in faith is for us to be at peace with ourselves and for all of us to get along. Religion is a tool we use to achieve this way of life, but this means it can equally be used and abused by self-centered people. Blame them for corrupting the ideal values of Christianity.

It may sound incredulous, but I really think Christianity is one big misundestood and abused faith. On a personal level, we have our own private beliefs, and yet society dilutes our principles with 'moralistic intentions'.

I really believe that the point in faith is for us to be at peace with ourselves and for all of us to get along. Religion is a tool we use to achieve this way of life, but this means it can equally be used and abused by self-centered people. Blame them for corrupting the ideal values of Christianity.

Christianity would've been a fairly nice religion if it wasn't for that bastard Paul.

:rolleyes: Why do you blame a people for the way they interpret their faith.?
Christianity is a violent, anti-life, intolerant religion. It condones rape (a rapist must pay a fee to the father of the girl then marry her), murder (sinners, followers of other religions, not listening to a preist, talking back to a preist or parent), slavery (of women as sex slaves, men as workers), pillaging, fear (damnation) as a form of conversion and genocide. Jesus himself declared that he was a war monger, wanted to seperate families and regularily stole from people. If anything, the greater majority of people are misinterpreting their religion.

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!

Even today, those who are most assertive and strong in their faith, men like George W Bush and General William Boykin are essentially professional killers.

Yes, yes they have. Of course, if you go back and read through history again, a whole bunch of that killing was actually based in politics, both church and state. It was about power, not prophecy.

You left out quite a few people there... What about Billy Graham? Adrian Rogers? Mother Teresa? John Hagee (though I don't much like him)? I think it'd make the news if any of them had been out killing people for fun and profit.


Christians in europe and their religion did genocide on the native peoples of north america and christians have been responsible for untold death in asia and africa.

No, religion committed genocide on the people of Central and South America. In North America, it was settlers and military/militia. As for the untold death, could you please link me to a story or two about it? I haven't heard anything about untold death in Asia and Africa due to Christianity.

And according to history, the US is actually based in deism, but I'll let you get into that with Goed. He's much better at it than I am.


Christianity even condones slavery and the stoning to death of adulturers!

Actually, John 8:1-11 tells the story of a prostitute dragged before Jesus to be condemned and stoned. He tells the Pharisees and Saducees that they can only kill her if they're pure and without sin. And since a few of the had been sleeping with her (as I reason from what Jesus had been writing on the groud - what better way to discredit someone than tell them exactly what they'd been doing with her last night?) as well as other sins, they had to leave her alone. Jesus turned her loose after telling her not to sin anymore.

The Bible doesn't condemn slavery, no. But back in that time period, slavery was something that happened when you couldn't pay your debts, or if you were captured in war. Slaves were looked at as being of a lower caste, but not as being nonhuman, like white slave owners looked at black slaves in the US. Slave owners were told to treat their slaves with respect as human beings, and slaves to respect their master and use their good example to show him the error of his ways. Eventually, Christian slave owners in that time looked at slaves as members of their family, and would free them upon their own death.

It doesn't justify slavery, but it was meant to improve the slaves' lives. Now that slavery is illegal in most of the world and mostly practiced in isolated parts of the Sudan, those verses are irrelevant.


In fact, the new testament even goes so far as to call it a "shame" for women to speak in church!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


I think I know what the real shame is!

I'm pretty sure that's a holdover from Judaism... Women weren't allowed to teach men, either, and had their own court in the Temple. Nowadays, women can speak in church and teach men if they want to and have the qualifications for whatever they're planning on teaching, but most still lead womens' Bible studies and take care of kids in the nursery. :rolleyes:




In short, you cannot blame God for people being idiots and not checking to see if that's actually what the Bible said. In the Middle Ages, when the Crusades were going on, the only people who could read were in the church, and they didn't want the peasants to gain knowledge because then they'd start to question, and maybe even think for themselves, instead of being good little herds of sheep.

I apologize for the people throughout the centuries who have not followed what Jesus actually said. They were wrong, and weren't actually following Christ's teachings. I can only hope that current and future generations can do better.

Yes, yes they have. Of course, if you go back and read through history again, a whole bunch of that killing was actually based in politics, both church and state. It was about power, not prophecy.

You left out quite a few people there... What about Billy Graham? Adrian Rogers? Mother Teresa? John Hagee (though I don't much like him)? I think it'd make the news if any of them had been out killing people for fun and profit.




No, religion committed genocide on the people of Central and South America. In North America, it was settlers and military/militia. As for the untold death, could you please link me to a story or two about it? I haven't heard anything about untold death in Asia and Africa due to Christianity.
I Know I know, i meant to edit it to say "south" but I didnt

And according to history, the US is actually based in deism, but I'll let you get into that with Goed. He's much better at it than I am.
DIdnt say otherwise.




Actually, John 8:1-11 tells the story of a prostitute dragged before Jesus to be condemned and stoned. He tells the Pharisees and Saducees that they can only kill her if they're pure and without sin. And since a few of the had been sleeping with her (as I reason from what Jesus had been writing on the groud - what better way to discredit someone than tell them exactly what they'd been doing with her last night?) as well as other sins, they had to leave her alone. Jesus turned her loose after telling her not to sin anymore.
Addressed before and edited in the main post

The Bible doesn't condemn slavery, no. But back in that time period, slavery was something that happened when you couldn't pay your debts, or if you were captured in war. Slaves were looked at as being of a lower caste, but not as being nonhuman, like white slave owners looked at black slaves in the US. Slave owners were told to treat their slaves with respect as human beings, and slaves to respect their master and use their good example to show him the error of his ways. Eventually, Christian slave owners in that time looked at slaves as members of their family, and would free them upon their own death.

It doesn't justify slavery, but it was meant to improve the slaves' lives. Now that slavery is illegal in most of the world and mostly practiced in isolated parts of the Sudan, those verses are irrelevant.
When you refuse to condemn something evil, but rather give your implicit approval through trite guidelines, you CONDONE it. The bible also says that slave masters cannot kill their slaves, but can beat them unconscious. For two days.




I'm pretty sure that's a holdover from Judaism... Women weren't allowed to teach men, either, and had their own court in the Temple. Nowadays, women can speak in church and teach men if they want to and have the qualifications for whatever they're planning on teaching, but most still lead womens' Bible studies and take care of kids in the nursery. :rolleyes:
It is in the NEW TESTAMENT, it is followed by an exhortation that it is to be considered the word of the Lord, look it up on Bible.com



In short, you cannot blame God for people being idiots and not checking to see if that's actually what the Bible said. In the Middle Ages, when the Crusades were going on, the only people who could read were in the church, and they didn't want the peasants to gain knowledge because then they'd start to question, and maybe even think for themselves, instead of being good little herds of sheep.
You are conflating the christian religion and the bible with god

I apologize for the people throughout the centuries who have not followed what Jesus actually said. They were wrong, and weren't actually following Christ's teachings. I can only hope that current and future generations can do better.
If it is OK to throw out god's will regarding women speaking in churches, is it OK to throw out other parts, just because they arent politically correct anymore?


Response up there in the quoties.

Goeds wrong about deism.

It's a common myth, the deism one, but it's just not true.

Goeds wrong about deism.

It's a common myth, the deism one, but it's just not true.


What isnt true is the farcical pretension that the US was founded on christian ideals.

The word "god" is not used a single time in our entire constitution. Ditto jesus.

Even the declaration of independence uses the phrase "nature's god."

Hmmn, maybe it is because the leading founders were deist freemasons?

"Christianity even condones . . . the stoning to death of adulturers!" (New Granada)

To learn more about this and correct your information, please read John 8:2-11.

Thanks!

Ya, but to give credit where it's due it demands the same for smart assed kids. And if more people would consult their bible as often as our president we could get back to the real values that made our nation great, like not wearing two different colors of clothing, practicing 3-field agriculture, eating shellfish, shaving beards, or getting hair cuts, which are all condemned by Leviticus. You'll all see, when Bush finally throws off the shackles of the tyrannical secularist liberal elite in this country the truly saved can go back to looking like hippies, for as Genesis tells us "Behold, I give thou every herb yielding seed."

No thanks, its a country with lots of religious fundementalists.

I'd like to go somewhere civilized, like France.

Yeah, where they punish people for having a religion. That's *much* better than a place where they enforce religion. Oh, wait...

Yeah, where they punish people for having a religion. That's *much* better than a place where they enforce religion. Oh, wait...


They dont punish people for having a religion in france silly, they just banned religious icons from public schools. Schools are the place to learn about reality, not superstition.

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!

Even today, those who are most assertive and strong in their faith, men like George W Bush and General William Boykin are essentially professional killers.

Christians in europe and their religion did genocide on the native peoples of north america and christians have been responsible for untold death in asia and africa.

Christianity even condones slavery!

In fact, the new testament even goes so far as to call it a "shame" for women to speak in church!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


I think I know what the real shame is!

I'll tell you this. There are two billion Christians on the planet and the religion is about two thousand years old. So... you expect every Christian to have ever lived to be perfect? Christianity, in fact, says that perfection amongst its members is impossible.
Christian doctrine, however, is a doctrine of peace, regardless of your putting words in the mouth of the church. They don't believe that women shouldn't talk, they don't believe in murder or slavery or genocide.

It's a matter of fact, regardless of what you say, what you think the bible says, or what you think Christians should believe based on your interpretation of the bible.

What isnt true is the farcical pretension that the US was founded on christian ideals.

The word "god" is not used a single time in our entire constitution. Ditto jesus.

Even the declaration of independence uses the phrase "nature's god."

Hmmn, maybe it is because the leading founders were deist freemasons?

Well except for the fact the constitution was ratified by entities (the states) most of which at that time had established christian churches.

And do you really think it would have been accepted then if people were under the impression that it it was a deist document?

I'll tell you this. There are two billion Christians on the planet and the religion is about two thousand years old. So... you expect every Christian to have ever lived to be perfect? Christianity, in fact, says that perfection amongst its members is impossible.
Christian doctrine, however, is a doctrine of peace, regardless of your putting words in the mouth of the church. They don't believe that women shouldn't talk, they don't believe in murder or slavery or genocide.

It's a matter of fact, regardless of what you say, what you think the bible says, or what you think Christians should believe based on your interpretation of the bible.


If you do not believe that women should not talk in church then you deny the will and word of god.

It says so in the bible. I Corinth. 14:34 and onwards.
Read the bible.

If you do not believe that women should not talk in church then you deny the will and word of god.

It says so in the bible. I Corinth. 14:34 and onwards.
Read the bible.

I'll just repeat myself for emphasis. You say that Christianity believes this this and that.

I say that they don't. It's a matter of fact, regardless of what you say, what you think the bible says, or what you think Christians should believe based on your interpretation of the bible.

If you want to argue that the Christian Church doesn't accurately follow their bible, then argue that. Start a "Christian churches don't follow their bible" thread and people will be able to argue against you on that point.

However saying that Christian churches believe women shouldn't talk in church, genocide is ok, murder is ok etc etc is just plain not true.

'Bible' is, for the record, the combination of the words "bile" and "babble."

'Bible' is, for the record, the combination of the words "bile" and "babble."

Untrue. When arguing gets too tedious, why not just make fun of a name??

If you do not believe that women should not talk in church then you deny the will and word of god.

It says so in the bible. I Corinth. 14:34 and onwards.
Read the bible.

Are you one of those muslims then?

Are you one of those muslims then?


Lord no.

Lord no.

What's with the name then, did you buy a new car?

Sure, let's attack Christianity for crimes committed hundreds of years ago. Meanwhile, Muslums as lopping off innocent peoples heads over issues as trivial as the right to wear headscarfs in school, killing children in schools, crashing planes into the world trade center, etc, ad nauseum.

Sure, let's attack Christianity for crimes committed hundreds of years ago. Meanwhile, Muslums as lopping off innocent peoples heads over issues as trivial as the right to wear headscarfs in school, killing children in schools, crashing planes into the world trade center, etc, ad nauseum.

That's the most intelligent thing I've ever read here.

Sure, let's attack Christianity for crimes committed hundreds of years ago. Meanwhile, Muslums as lopping off innocent peoples heads over issues as trivial as the right to wear headscarfs in school, killing children in schools, crashing planes into the world trade center, etc, ad nauseum.

They aren't muslims.

The mainstream sects of virtualy all religions preach peace and nonviolence, and claim to be peacful and nonviolent. Meanwhile back in reality, virtualy all religions have been responsible for henious crimes against humanity, don't single anyone out. It is the extremists in these various religions that are responsible. Don't go blaming the genral populace for the acts of a select few. At least be unbiased in your harsh and unfair views.

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!

Even today, those who are most assertive and strong in their faith, men like George W Bush and General William Boykin are essentially professional killers.

Christians in europe and their religion did genocide on the native peoples of south america and christians have been responsible for untold death in asia and africa.

Christianity even condones slavery!

In fact, the new testament even goes so far as to call it a "shame" for women to speak in church!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


I think I know what the real shame is!

Dude, shut the hell up. There's no point to this. The whole slavery thing isn't totally true. It tells how to treat your slave, but doesn't say that you should have slaves. Infact, there's an asshole who lives around here who threw the entire town into an uproar over some book he wrote about how slavery was a harmonious time between blacks and whites. Total bullshit. And I'm tired of seeing these "You're religion sucks ass" threads, so jsut shut the hell up.

Dude, shut the hell up. There's no point to this. The whole slavery thing isn't totally true. It tells how to treat your slave, but doesn't say that you should have slaves. Infact, there's an asshole who lives around here who threw the entire town into an uproar over some book he wrote about how slavery was a harmonious time between blacks and whites. Total bullshit. And I'm tired of seeing these "You're religion sucks ass" threads, so jsut shut the hell up.
your talking about new grande right, heres how hes cut Typical liberal mold Extra doses of both hate and atheism and one of those add ons from these three bush the: "Illegitment president" "Monkey morron" "Clever Liar" I always forget which becasue I ha... don't like him.

Christianity is a violent, anti-life, intolerant religion. It condones rape (a rapist must pay a fee to the father of the girl then marry her), murder (sinners, followers of other religions, not listening to a preist, talking back to a preist or parent), slavery (of women as sex slaves, men as workers), pillaging, [. . . snip . . .]and genocide.

You seem to be confusing Christianity with Judaism. Of course the former grew out of the latter, but if you're to call Christianity violent, you must, to be honest, point out that it is a far less violent extension of an older more violent faith.

fear (damnation) as a form of conversion

Many Christians believe that this is a false belief born out of metaphor (Jesus' parable of the rich man and the begger) &/or the symbolism of vision (The Apocalypse of St. John of Patmos). It also has roots in the pre-christian Paganism of Rome and its precursors, with eternal flame torture found in some*, more imaginative things like eternally regrown organs being eternally picked out by boirds in others (for those suitably impious who bore godly or titanic blood). As a Gnostic Christian and one who refutes the inerrency of The Holy Bible, I stand against this description if only on the grounds of broad generalization.

Jesus himself declared that he was a war monger, wanted to seperate families

The only sources that I can imagine for this are his advocation of self defence (just before the Last Supper) and his metaphoric statement that he brought not peace but a sword (which is what the second part of the last line quoted refers to).

Yet above you have decried Christianity (through Judaism) for requiring children to respect parents. Would you like your cake now, or to have it for later, or would you prefer both, Sir? ;)). In fact what Jesus was saying was that when a child has been granted wisdom that his/er parent(s) themselves have refused, s/he should seperate from them. This in fact has the effect of mitigating the Commandment that requires him/er to honour them, in the most supportable of possible issues, namely, honest differences in belief on the part of the children. Furthermore the sword refered to here is, as stated above, a metaphor for this seperation. Were it otherwise you would have been far better served by asserting that Christianity advocates familicide.

and regularily stole from people.

Source it please.

If anything, the greater majority of people are misinterpreting their religion.

This can be said of any organized religion.



* IIRC. Feel free to correct.

They dont punish people for having a religion in france silly, they just banned religious icons from public schools. Schools are the place to learn about reality, not superstition.

You're right, making it so that young girls can't come to school without feeling naked isn't a punishment at all.

And no one is suggesting that they *teach* religion. However, trying to turn all the kids into mindless automotons is just stupid.

You're right, making it so that young girls can't come to school without feeling naked isn't a punishment at all.

And no one is suggesting that they *teach* religion. However, trying to turn all the kids into mindless automotons is just stupid.
And then we have got US where kids shall have school uniforms as it is a threat to the society if they would ever come into teen-age rebellion and want to manifest that... I think they are both as bad as the other, they are both a way to control individuals' expressions of opinions.

I would sugguest, that if you actually debate the contents of the Bible that you understand it first.


The mentioning of women not speaking in 1 Corinthians is Pauls contemporary view of what the church was at the time. Women would speak up loudly at the church service to ask their husbands what was going on. Read further as to what Paul said for the women to do. He told them to ask their husbands at their homes, instead of being loud. Plus you must look at the context of the passage, not just that one verse. Paul is talking about how a church service is to have order, and not be in chaos. Verse 26-40 is all about order, not the roles of who's where in church.

If you believe Christianity is an ultra-violent religion, please show me the examples as to where Jesus killed someone. Or where Jesus told people to kill one another. Give me an example as to where Paul, once saved, killed anyone. Same goes for Timothy, Peter, Apollos, John or James.

The word 'Christian' means to be Christ-like. If one is actually Christ like, then he'd listen to the following quotes.

John 13:34 "Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another.

Mat 5:43 "You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer,

Mat 19:19 honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as you do yourself."

Mat 22:37 Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'
Mat 22:38 This is the most important, the first on any list.
Mat 22:39 But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'

Mat 26:51 One of those with Jesus pulled his sword and, taking a swing at the Chief Priest's servant, cut off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Jesus said, "Put your sword back where it belongs. All who use swords are destroyed by swords.
(Jesus condoning violence as a means of acomplishing his protection)

And thats just Matthew. One book of the Bible.

Bad people use good religion to twist what they say and fit them for their own evil goals. Hitler did it, Catholics did it. Any person that says that their a Christian and will readily kill innocent people for no reason isn't Christ-like. Should the gospel account of Jesus dying the way he did be true, one would realize that Christianity is the ultimate peaceful religion, in the fact that its founder died by his principles of forgiving those who persecute you.

Good last paragraph Angry Tex :) ....but then again, don't most popular religions have the peace-peace concept in mind?

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!

Even today, those who are most assertive and strong in their faith, men like George W Bush and General William Boykin are essentially professional killers.

Christians in europe and their religion did genocide on the native peoples of south america and christians have been responsible for untold death in asia and africa.

Christianity even condones slavery!

In fact, the new testament even goes so far as to call it a "shame" for women to speak in church!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


I think I know what the real shame is!

george w. bush falls under a group that claims to be christian but very seldom acts christian.

just like some of the people in the middle east would tell you that osama and all the terrorists arent true followers of islam.

and personally im tired of all this fighting among the 3 major religions, since the only major difference between christianity and judaism is that christianity believes jesus christ is the son of god, and judaism believes that jesus was only just another prophet. and islam is rooted in judaism because ishmael's descendants started islam, and ishmael was the son of abraham. the fact that all these religious love to fight each other is stupid as far as im concerned.

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!I'm not terribly familiar with Christian apologists, but I suppose that they would say that those Christians were practicing a perverted form of Christianity.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)Paul had issues. It is a shame that people follow what he says.

You're right, making it so that young girls can't come to school without feeling naked isn't a punishment at all.

And no one is suggesting that they *teach* religion. However, trying to turn all the kids into mindless automotons is just stupid.


Removing the influence of the "grand world historical source of human automatons" hardly accomplishes what you fancy.

Perhaps religious fundementalists need to learn that life goes on even if their loony superstitions arent maniacally adhered to.

Paul had issues. It is a shame that people follow what he says.


Yeah, the sooner they throw out that whole 'christianity' thing he came up with the better.

Removing the influence of the "grand world historical source of human automatons" hardly accomplishes what you fancy.

Perhaps religious fundementalists need to learn that life goes on even if their loony superstitions arent maniacally adhered to.

What harm does wearing a crucifix around your neck do? Does it give you rabies or something? Does it start talking in the middle of class by preaching the word of god? Please, enlighten me on the evils of religious icons.

peaceful christianity? its Called Mennonite. Read about it, learn about it, come back when you are less ignorant and more willing to learn before judging. Every religion has its good and bad points in history, its good and bad examples of followers.

Removing the influence of the "grand world historical source of human automatons" hardly accomplishes what you fancy.

eh?

Perhaps religious fundementalists need to learn that life goes on even if their loony superstitions arent maniacally adhered to.

Perhaps atheist fundamentalists need to stop trying to convince everyone and realize that different people have different viewpoints. I don't go around telling girls that they can't wear bras, but I certainly wouldn't listen if I was told that I couldn't wear it just because my culture had brought me up to wear it.

Christianity's apologists claim that it is a 'religion of peace,' but christians have been responsible for doing massive death to their fellow man for more than a thousand years!

Even today, those who are most assertive and strong in their faith, men like George W Bush and General William Boykin are essentially professional killers.

Christians in europe and their religion did genocide on the native peoples of south america and christians have been responsible for untold death in asia and africa.

Christianity even condones slavery!

In fact, the new testament even goes so far as to call it a "shame" for women to speak in church!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


I think I know what the real shame is!
How many hundreds of millions of people has communism killed? How many did the Mongols kill? The Moors? The Nazis? How about the American Indians, how many hundreds of thousands of themselves did they kill before the Europeans arrived? But you're right, clearly the actions of people 1000 years ago are somehow related to the actions of the people today, I bet your 20th great grandfather owned slaves. Logically, that makes you a racist doesn't it? Or at least a hypocrite.

I would sugguest, that if you actually debate the contents of the Bible that you understand it first.


The mentioning of women not speaking in 1 Corinthians is Pauls contemporary view of what the church was at the time. Women would speak up loudly at the church service to ask their husbands what was going on. Read further as to what Paul said for the women to do. He told them to ask their husbands at their homes, instead of being loud. Plus you must look at the context of the passage, not just that one verse. Paul is talking about how a church service is to have order, and not be in chaos. Verse 26-40 is all about order, not the roles of who's where in church.

If you believe Christianity is an ultra-violent religion, please show me the examples as to where Jesus killed someone. Or where Jesus told people to kill one another. Give me an example as to where Paul, once saved, killed anyone. Same goes for Timothy, Peter, Apollos, John or James.

The word 'Christian' means to be Christ-like. If one is actually Christ like, then he'd listen to the following quotes.

John 13:34 "Let me give you a new command: Love one another. In the same way I loved you, you love one another.

Mat 5:43 "You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer,

Mat 19:19 honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as you do yourself."

Mat 22:37 Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'
Mat 22:38 This is the most important, the first on any list.
Mat 22:39 But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'

Mat 26:51 One of those with Jesus pulled his sword and, taking a swing at the Chief Priest's servant, cut off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Jesus said, "Put your sword back where it belongs. All who use swords are destroyed by swords.
(Jesus condoning violence as a means of acomplishing his protection)

And thats just Matthew. One book of the Bible.

Bad people use good religion to twist what they say and fit them for their own evil goals. Hitler did it, Catholics did it. Any person that says that their a Christian and will readily kill innocent people for no reason isn't Christ-like. Should the gospel account of Jesus dying the way he did be true, one would realize that Christianity is the ultimate peaceful religion, in the fact that its founder died by his principles of forgiving those who persecute you.

No particular disagreement here, but I am interested in what translation that is?

And I think you meant to say "condemning", not "condoning".

Yeah, the sooner they throw out that whole 'christianity' thing he came up with the better.Oh, I don't know about that. Some denominations are a force for good, and even if I disagree with them on some fundamental points (such as the existance of God), I wouldn't want to see them go away. But then, some denominations don't pay much heed to Paul.

Sorry about the pronounciation error.

The version of the Bible I was using was The Message. Although not the one I study/read with, very good modern translation.

How many hundreds of millions of people has communism killed? How many did the Mongols kill? The Moors? The Nazis? How about the American Indians, how many hundreds of thousands of themselves did they kill before the Europeans arrived? But you're right, clearly the actions of people 1000 years ago are somehow related to the actions of the people today, I bet your 20th great grandfather owned slaves. Logically, that makes you a racist doesn't it? Or at least a hypocrite.


We norsemen didnt have slaves. :)

What harm does wearing a crucifix around your neck do?

It doesn't ... NEXT!

Actually, I carry a crucifix. It was given to me by a dear friend who was off to seminary and is now a Jesuit Priest. I go nowhere without it ... even though I am a Godless Heathen ... because it was given to me by a dear friend who made a choice and I respect his choice. It's very pretty, but out of respect for him, I do not wear it, but I always have it on me.

Outside of being a gift from a friend, it has no meaning for me, but it is always there nonetheless.

We norsemen didnt have slaves. :)

The Vikings ran slaving operations from Scandinavia to Ireland.

Sorry about the pronounciation error.

The version of the Bible I was using was The Message. Although not the one I study/read with, very good modern translation.

Ahh... word choice error... as in, exact opposite meanings. ;)

Really, this is the wwweb... how can we know how you pronounced it? :D

I just finished reading a pamphlet on the Salvation Army - called "The Starvation Army."
It's funny how people never stop to think about them, they just dismiss them as a charitable organisation. But I'd encourage anyone who can get it to pick up a copy. It details how the Salvoes exploit people on welfare programs, were instrumental in removing indigenous children from their families and were complicit with the Apartheid regime. nice, huh?
Speaking of apartheid- Dutch reformed church- *shakes head* bad bad.

I think the institutionalisation of religion is a problem. That and these crazy weirdo fundamentalists. Like Fred Nile. And yeah, I'll acknowledge that fundamentalism is a problem in all religions. But I think Christianity was (and to some extent still is) a religion of the powerful (colonisers, government) a wider range of abuses have been carried out in the name of the religion.

To the unanswerable shame of Christians, some of us have of occasion been known to act as if we were atheists.....
Yes, Christians sometimes stuff up. But only sometimes. Not always. What is atheism's current batting average?
Let's see, for the first non-religious state, we need to go to revolutionary France - The Terror, Madame Guillotine....a piece of insanity unmatched in religious history. (Occuring during the same era as the American revolution, which is comparatively peaceful - maybe because every person who signed he Declaration of Independence was a Christian?)
The Revolution spans less evils, dies down for a few decades - and is followed by the joys of Communism. Oh gulags and purges, such bliss!
Meanwhile Fascism dabbles with paganism, but finally goes solidly athiestic - and murderous.
That's it so far - 100% monstrosity. You're really in no position to throw stones. Clean your own act up before you try criticising other people!

(Occuring during the same era as the American revolution, which is comparatively peaceful - maybe because every person who signed he Declaration of Independence was a Christian?)
http://duffmaru.freeservers.com/bullshit.jpg
Many framers were diests. Zero points for you.

man... christians always have something up their asses.... hmm... lack of sex I sense...

man... christians always have something up their asses.... hmm... lack of sex I sense...

My oh my, what a sophisticated grasp of the issues. Welcome to the NS Forums. You will fit in quite well here. There are plenty of fucktards like you.

The Vikings ran slaving operations from Scandinavia to Ireland.


No poor black people though, just whities.

http://duffmaru.freeservers.com/bullshit.jpg
Many framers were diests. Zero points for you.
Name two.
Further, if you're running the 'oh, they were just pretending because of public opinion' argument, surely the influence of public opinion on the US is even more important? Making the influence of non-Christians completely unimportant?
[Why am I defending the world's largest tax dodge? Oh well, it beats thinking about Revolutionary France!]

Name two.
Further, if you're running the 'oh, they were just pretending because of public opinion' argument, surely the influence of public opinion on the US is even more important? Making the influence of non-Christian completely unimportant?
[Why am I defending the world's largest tax dodge? Oh well, it beats thinking about Revolutionary France!]

It is greatly unknown what Washington's religion was. He attended service twice, never spoke of Jesus, never took communion, and died without a single documentation of christian beliefs. He was most likily a deist, and I can't see him being a christian.

Paine is considered by many to be one of the founding fathers, or at the very least a driving force behing the revolution.

Jefferson was very anti-bible. Very anti-Paul as well. DUnno if you'd count that.

Franklin. No other comment needed for him :p

John Adams spoke against the christian church very often.



Want more?

Just so you know, correct wording wouldn't cite that 'many' of the people that signed the declaration of Independence were Deists.
1 was unitarian (John Adams)

11 were congregationalists (Samuel Adams, Josiah Barlett, William Ellery, Lyman Hall, John Hancock, Samuel Huntington, T. Robert Paine, Roger Sherman, William Whipple, William Williams, and Oliver Walcott)

2 were Anglican (Edward Rutledge, George Walton)

14 were Episcopal (Carter Braxton, Samuel Chase, George Clymer, Elbridge Gerry, Button Gwinnett, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Frances Hopkins, Robert Morris, William Paca, George Read, Caesar Rodney, Thomas Stone, James Wilson, and George Wythe)

11 were Presbyterian (Abraham Clark, William Floyd, John Hart, Phillip Livingston, Thomas McKean, Benjamin Rush, James Smith, Richard Stockton, George Taylor, Matthew Thornton, and John Witherspoon)\

1 was Roman Catholic (Charles Carroll)

And only 2 were notably Deists (Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin)

13 can be disputed. The books I've read placed the majority in Christian denominations. Even if the 13 were infact Deists/atheists, that would be far from a cry of 'many'