NationStates Jolt Archive

Police Shot Protesters With Pepperballs At Bush Rally
Last week in Jacksonville Oregon, riot police shot projectiles known as pepperballs at a crowd of protesters who had gathered to protest a campaign appearance by President Bush. The pepperballs have been described like paintballs filled with cayenne pepper. At least one protester, 65-year-old, Richard Swaney, was knocked down after being shot by police. One mother told the Associated Press that she had been pushed by police as she held her six-year-old daughter. The woman, Cerridewen Bunten, said, "Nobody was being violent. We were out of the streets so cars could go by. We were being loud, but I never knew that was against the law."
www.democracynow.org

Being loud is against the law. It's called disturbing the peace.

I know if I was driving in that neighborhood, I'd be going on the sidewalks at sixty miles per hour.

Freedom of speech =/= the right to bother me while I'm commuting.

Wow...... they disturbing the peace, therefore they're people who were unjustly attacked. At least they were peppered.

Damn MKULTRA, do you see FOX? I mean, at least get all the extremes :rolleyes:

*sighs and leaves thread*

Being loud is against the law. It's called disturbing the peace.

I know if I was driving in that neighborhood, I'd be going on the sidewalks at sixty miles per hour.

Freedom of speech =/= the right to bother me while I'm commuting.
people have a constitutional right to assemble and protest-if you dont like the noise wear earmuffs-I dont think protesters are any louder then Bush spouting his idiotic soundbites at a campiagn rally

Wow...... they disturbing the peace, therefore they're people who were unjustly attacked. At least they were peppered.

Damn MKULTRA, do you see FOX? I mean, at least get all the extremes :rolleyes:

*sighs and leaves thread*
I wont watch Foxnews because I have an aversion to the outright lying that goes on at that propaganda mill

people have a constitutional right to assemble and protest-if you dont like the noise wear earmuffs-I dont think protesters are any louder then Bush spouting his idiotic soundbites at a campiagn rally

How selfish.

And Democracynow is not a propaganda mill? Get real. It's probably a bigger one.

Those protesters probably did not have a permit in the first place.

I'll watch fox and listen to limbaugh. Just so I can be reminded of why I hate conservatives.

How selfish.
its selfish for Bush to think hes above being criticized by people who love America

MKULTRA, you really need to cite better sources than the DNC site. You talk about Fox being a propoganda mill, yet cite a Democratic site that we're supposed to believe is unbiased? Like Island of Rose said, get both extremes and make your own decision as to what to believe...

It would be the same thing for me to say that all the voter fraud is on the Democratic side and then post a site like www.probush.com Seriously man, you're not going to change anyones mind if you use those kind of sources.

And Democracynow is not a propaganda mill? Get real. It's probably a bigger one.

Those protesters probably did not have a permit in the first place.
Foxnews has a documented trail of lies Democracynow never lied once

you dont have to have a permit to express an opinion and did the police have a permit to shoot people who posed no threat?

I wont watch Foxnews because I have an aversion to the outright lying that goes on at that propaganda mill

I believe you misspelled "the greatest news program ever".

MKULTRA, you really need to cite better sources than the DNC site. You talk about Fox being a propoganda mill, yet cite a Democratic site that we're supposed to believe is unbiased? Like Island of Rose said, get both extremes and make your own decision as to what to believe...

It would be the same thing for me to say that all the voter fraud is on the Democratic side and then post a site like www.probush.com Seriously man, you're not going to change anyones mind if you use those kind of sources.
Democracynow doesnt make up these stories they actually happened-How is just reporting what happened "propaganda"?

Police Shot Protesters With Pepperballs At Bush Rally
Last week in Jacksonville Oregon, riot police shot projectiles known as pepperballs at a crowd of protesters who had gathered to protest a campaign appearance by President Bush. The pepperballs have been described like paintballs filled with cayenne pepper. At least one protester, 65-year-old, Richard Swaney, was knocked down after being shot by police. One mother told the Associated Press that she had been pushed by police as she held her six-year-old daughter. The woman, Cerridewen Bunten, said, "Nobody was being violent. We were out of the streets so cars could go by. We were being loud, but I never knew that was against the law."
www.democracynow.org
Well, just like when the Police have to go into The Bronx, they wait for back-up, and have non-lethal weapons ready. Why would the Socialist Republic side of Oregon be any different? I mean those people are always high on their poppyseeds, they refuse orders and police directives, and pretty much, ya'know do as we please. Whats the issue man?

I'll watch fox and listen to limbaugh. Just so I can be reminded of why I hate conservatives.


Same reason I watch cnn and look at democracynow.org

Seriously don’t all you people realize the complete garbage both sides spew

Democracynow doesnt make up these stories they actually happened-How is just reporting what happened "propaganda"?

Because they take a biased view of things, pitting the government as bad guys. Don't worry, it's just what the liberals do. Run along and play, now.

It is your constitutional right to assemble and protest in the USA. That's one of the things that they fought for, more than 200 years ago. And if it's a rally, there's going to be hella noise anyway, so the whole "disturbing the peace" argument simply has no merit. The right of assembly is at the core of civil liberties, which are the foundation of this country and explicitly protected by the Constitution.

I believe you misspelled "the greatest news program ever".

You know, I hate Fox and all, but that was still pretty funny :D

Well, just like when the Police have to go into The Bronx, they wait for back-up, and have non-lethal weapons ready. Why would the Socialist Republic side of Oregon be any different? I mean those people are always high on their poppyseeds, they refuse orders and police directives, and pretty much, ya'know do as we please. Whats the issue man?
the issue is they fired with no cause

Same reason I watch cnn and look at democracynow.org

Seriously don’t all you people realize the complete garbage both sides spew
Cnn is in no way liberal and Democracynow may have a leftwing bias but the news stories they tell are true so I wouldnt call them "garbage"--whats garbage is all the spin on Foxnews where they just outright lie and make things up out of thin air. Democracynow just says real life events.

It is your constitutional right to assemble and protest in the USA. That's one of the things that they fought for, more than 200 years ago. And if it's a rally, there's going to be hella noise anyway, so the whole "disturbing the peace" argument simply has no merit. The right of assembly is at the core of civil liberties, which are the foundation of this country and explicitly protected by the Constitution.

First of all, you use leet-speak, so that pretty much "voidz0rz your argumentz0rz". Second, people have the right to protest peacefully, and disturbing the "peace" isn't peaceful. Geeze, didn't your parents hit you as a kid?

Cnn is in no way liberal and Democracynow may have a leftwing bias but the news stories they tell are true so I wouldnt call them "garbage"--whats garbage is all the spin on Foxnews where they just outright lie and make things up out of thin air. Democracynow just says real life events.


Lol I didn’t listen to everyone else when they said you were blind to the arrow in your own eye

But seriously wow

Just
Wow

Lol I didn’t listen to everyone else when they said you were blind to the arrow in your own eye

But seriously wow

Just
Wow
there will be alot of time to be fair when the culture war is over

the issue is they fired with no cause

I never hear about police firing "pepper-bullets" into Republican rallies, do you? If you do please link it because I'm not just being fecichous (damn that's mispelled). I have not heard of Republican rallies being broken up by the police, at least not at the level we hear about more Democratic and/or liberal oriented rallies.

I have a hard time believing that the polcie fired without provocation from the crowds..... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I read otherwise.

I never hear about police firing "pepper-bullets" into Republican rallies, do you? If you do please link it because I'm not just being fecichous (damn that's mispelled). I have not heard of Republican rallies being broken up by the police, at least not at the level we hear about more Democratic and/or liberal oriented rallies.

I have a hard time believing that the polcie fired without provocation from the crowds..... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I read otherwise.

10 bucks say MKULTRA's going to say "OMGNOES TEH FUZZ IS EVIL REPUBLICAN NAZI KITTEN EATERS".

there will be alot of time to be fair when the culture war is over

"Could MKULTRA's last thought please come to the front desk? I repeat, MKULTRA'S last thought"

I never hear about police firing "pepper-bullets" into Republican rallies, do you? If you do please link it because I'm not just being fecichous (damn that's mispelled). I have not heard of Republican rallies being broken up by the police, at least not at the level we hear about more Democratic and/or liberal oriented rallies.

I have a hard time believing that the polcie fired without provocation from the crowds..... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I read otherwise.
thats because republicans rarely have protests since they dont believe in questioning their leaders and most cops are facist minded republicans themselves

Democracy Now is a huge propaganda mill because it has a liberal bias and always leaves out critical details because those details contradict their whole belief system. At least Fox News does give all of the details although it has fouled up as of late.

In order for a large demostration to gather and spout off on public property which includes sidewalks, they need to go to city council and apply for a permit. Everyone needs to do that before doing anything. This occurs everywhere in America. If they do not have a permit and refuse to disperse. Also some punk probably did something to get the police to fire upon the crowd... Or should I say panicked mob?

Besides protesting is stupid. They would be better not skipping work for this and making money and then donating some to some powerful organization of their choice and effectively furthering their cause. That's what Republicans do and this strategy has been real effective for them recently.

thats because republicans rarely have protests since they dont believe in questioning their leaders and most cops are facist minded republicans themselves

*gives tyrandis 10 bucks*

thats because republicans rarely have protests since they dont believe in questioning their leaders and most cops are facist minded republicans themselves


Once again, you insult those who disagree or point out the discrepencies in your arguments. To say that most cops are facists-minded republicans is not only inaccurate but IDIOTIC. Just exactly how many cops do you know? My friend's dad is a cop and a hard core liberal who is more civil than you when arguing politics. But then again, you're probably some kid (physically or mentally) who just spits out whatever the spin machines give you.

*Stamps a picture of a copy machine onto MKULTRA's head* There, now everyone can see what you really are.

Oh almost forgot.... *gives $10 to Tyrandis* Heh, what do you mean MKULTRA is a liberal Bush-hater who deserves to work at MoveOn.org?

liberals deserve more then pepperballs....

First of all, you use leet-speak, so that pretty much "voidz0rz your argumentz0rz". Second, people have the right to protest peacefully, and disturbing the "peace" isn't peaceful. Geeze, didn't your parents hit you as a kid?

What? Leet-speak? What the hell are you talking about? I used no leet-speak

Once again, you insult those who disagree or point out the discrepencies in your arguments. To say that most cops are facists-minded republicans is not only inaccurate but IDIOTIC. Just exactly how many cops do you know? My friend's dad is a cop and a hard core liberal who is more civil than you when arguing politics. But then again, you're probably some kid (physically or mentally) who just spits out whatever the spin machines give you.

*Stamps a picture of a copy machine onto MKULTRA's head* There, now everyone can see what you really are.

Oh almost forgot.... *gives $10 to Tyrandis* Heh, what do you mean MKULTRA is a liberal Bush-hater who deserves to work at MoveOn.org?
my hatred for Bush is no different then conservative Brent Scowcroft who worked for Bushs father and who agrees with me that the idiot son is a threat to world peace and stablility and all the other disaffected Bush administration conservatives who retired rather then continue to work for this maniac of a President. Anyone who gets close to Bush looks in his eyes and realizes theirs no one home.

Democracy Now is a huge propaganda mill because it has a liberal bias and always leaves out critical details because those details contradict their whole belief system. At least Fox News does give all of the details although it has fouled up as of late.

In order for a large demostration to gather and spout off on public property which includes sidewalks, they need to go to city council and apply for a permit. Everyone needs to do that before doing anything. This occurs everywhere in America. If they do not have a permit and refuse to disperse. Also some punk probably did something to get the police to fire upon the crowd... Or should I say panicked mob?

Besides protesting is stupid. They would be better not skipping work for this and making money and then donating some to some powerful organization of their choice and effectively furthering their cause. That's what Republicans do and this strategy has been real effective for them recently.
IMO, the whole idea of having to get a permit to protest is kind of ridiculous. Seriously, especially if you're protesting the government, who do you have to go to to ask permission? The government, of course. Also, I think in general police tend to be a bit trigger happy with their non-lethal weapons when faced with a large crowd of any type, whether they pose any real danger or not. At my school last year, we had a large outside party toward the end of the year, and there ended up being about 300-500 people. The police showed up because apparently one or two jackasses threw a few bottles at some campus safety officers. By the end of the night, 50-60 police in full riot gear broke up the party (where the vast majority of partygoers just wanted to be left alone and have a little fun) with pepperballs. The next week or so there was a huge uproar on campus about this, but of course, the president of the University took the police's side. Sorry about the tangent, but I do think it's kind of relevant. Police are often trigger happy.

liberals deserve more then pepperballs....
And you deserve to be tried at the Hague

my hatred for Bush is no different then conservative Brent Scowcroft who worked for Bushs father and who agrees with me that the idiot son is a threat to world peace and stablility and all the other disaffected Bush administration conservatives who retired rather then continue to work for this maniac of a President. Anyone who gets close to Bush looks in his eyes and realizes theirs no one home.

Periods = friends. If you had half a brain yourself, you'd realize that Kerry lies, too. All politicians do, it just so happens that John Kerry, who is getting desperate, lies more than Bush.

What? Leet-speak? What the hell are you talking about? I used no leet-speak

I was poking fun at you. ;)

I never hear about police firing "pepper-bullets" into Republican rallies, do you? If you do please link it because I'm not just being fecichous (damn that's mispelled). I have not heard of Republican rallies being broken up by the police, at least not at the level we hear about more Democratic and/or liberal oriented rallies.

I have a hard time believing that the polcie fired without provocation from the crowds..... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I read otherwise.

No... I heard at Republican rallies the protestors fire live rounds into Planned Parenthood. Or something like that.

I wish I could have seen that.

IMO, the whole idea of having to get a permit to protest is kind of ridiculous. Seriously, especially if you're protesting the government, who do you have to go to to ask permission? The government, of course. Also, I think in general police tend to be a bit trigger happy with their non-lethal weapons when faced with a large crowd of any type, whether they pose any real danger or not. At my school last year, we had a large outside party toward the end of the year, and there ended up being about 300-500 people. The police showed up because apparently one or two jackasses threw a few bottles at some campus safety officers. By the end of the night, 50-60 police in full riot gear broke up the party (where the vast majority of partygoers just wanted to be left alone and have a little fun) with pepperballs. The next week or so there was a huge uproar on campus about this, but of course, the president of the University took the police's side. Sorry about the tangent, but I do think it's kind of relevant. Police are often trigger happy.

Nothing would have happen if people did not throw bottles at security. Most of the time, you mess with security, you get whupped and probably deserved to be. If the cops were really trigger happy, they would have broken out the tazers and mace right away and zapped/sprayed every person 10 times each in the face. Common sense. I also take it, this celebration was not approved by the school and also involved alcohol. So of course, the president of the university is going to take the side of the police.

Most city councils are more than happy to give anyone a permit and provide security for themn especially if said group has a good record, regardless of groups' views.

And Democracynow is not a propaganda mill? Get real. It's probably a bigger one.

Those protesters probably did not have a permit in the first place.
Ya, how can people be expected to protest government policy appropriatly if they don't first consult with the government that they're protesting to ask that government for permision to protest it? :rolleyes: Freedom isn't free people! When will liberals realize that Bush is protecting our liberties by making sure that only certain people can use them?
Remember, the terrorists hate our freedom, so if you are found near it, that makes you a target :eek:

I'll repeat myself. Most city councils approve permits regardless of group's views especially if they have a good track record. Groups that receive intense scrutiny before getting one are extemists. Also, city councils also let both sides face each other ie. the abortion rallys. You always see anti and pro people yelling at each other at those things. If the Oregon group just walked into city council, applied and paid for said permit everything would be fine. The permit thing came into effect to prevent mobs and anarchy from breaking out at every public function.

I was poking fun at you. ;)

Oh. I thought you were trying to say that the term "hella" (commonly used slang in the SF bay area) was leet (which it isn't).


Seriously though? Having to ask permission to express your views? I frankly think that sounds ludicrous.

thats because republicans rarely have protests since they dont believe in questioning their leaders and most cops are facist minded republicans themselves

Ohh, and it is the Republicans (http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=24901) that are (http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=2390053) the fascists (http://www.local6.com/politics/3785861/detail.html) now?

You keep thinking that. I myself, am going to be living in reality.

Care to join me?

Look up my last post.

http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/code/lc366a.html

In fact, my hometown's twin has a perfect example of such legislation. This legislation is commonplace throughout the land.

Seriously though? Having to ask permission to express your views? I frankly think that sounds ludicrous.

It has nothing to do with being allowed to express your views. The purpose of the permit laws are to make sure that the protestors as well as observers are safe. It lets authorities know how many people will be attending so that they can allocate enough police to not only prevent the crowd from getting out of hand, but to protect the crowd from observers who may disagree with their viewpoints. It also makes sure that protestors pay for the protest. When large groups of protestors assemble, public property is accidentaly destroyed. It isn't intentional, it just happens. It wouldn't be fair to ask tax payers to pay for this damage, as they have nothing to do with the protest. Also for much larger protests it is necessary to make sure that sanitary and health issues are accounted for. I.e. Porto-potties, water, e.m.s. Finally, just because something is public property, it doesn't mean that you can protest there. Local governments designate areas that are acceptable to protest in, parks, squares, and in large enough protests they will secure streets. It is not acceptable for protests to infringe on the rights of other citizens by preventing them from using the private or public facilities they need and pay for.

Also, maybe this was a peaceful crowd, but it doesn't take long for a crowd to turn into a mob, and if the government doesn't know what the hell is going on, of course it's going to break it up, because it has an obligation to protect its citizens. This obligation takes priority over your right to demonstrate.

To the original post, how exactly did President Bush order this protest be dispersed? My impression is that this would be a local matter, not one of upmost importance that would require the attention of our commander and chief. My advice is you educate yourself before buying into extremism on either side. By the way, anytime you call anyone in authority a fascist, it makes you look like the total idiot you are.

Nothing would have happen if people did not throw bottles at security. Most of the time, you mess with security, you get whupped and probably deserved to be. If the cops were really trigger happy, they would have broken out the tazers and mace right away and zapped/sprayed every person 10 times each in the face. Common sense. I also take it, this celebration was not approved by the school and also involved alcohol. So of course, the president of the university is going to take the side of the police.

Most city councils are more than happy to give anyone a permit and provide security for themn especially if said group has a good record, regardless of groups' views.
But when there's only 1, 2, maybe 3 people throwing bottles, surely there's better ways to handle the situation.

But when there's only 1, 2, maybe 3 people throwing bottles, surely there's better ways to handle the situation.

1 person turns into 2.

2 turns into 3.

3 turns into 6, and so on.

yet in this protest the only people who acted out if hand was the cops themselves

But when there's only 1, 2, maybe 3 people throwing bottles, surely there's better ways to handle the situation.

Maybe only a few people actually threw bottles, but that was probably hard to determine untill after the fact, as the whole crowd was probably hostile to the security officials, and the police. You probably also had some moron yelling "YOUR FASCIST MINDED PIGS," and "YOU JACKBOOTS CAN'T VIOLATE MY RIGHTS! I READ DEMOCRACYNOW.ORG" which simply exacerbated the situation. When a situation involves alchohol things get alot more complicated. It is more likely that the crowd will get out of hand quickly, and act irrationaly. Besides, if this was a public place they were all breaking the law anyway by being publicly intoxicated. Of course the university officials sided with the police. Colleges and local police have, and will maintain at all costs, very good relationships. The advantages of this are obvious and beneficial to students. In this instance it probably allowed the university to handle discipline, which would not be as severe as if the law had.

Jesus christ people, your complaining about non-lethal tactics here. Next time lets use Bullets from M-249's and M-240G's and let you complain after that. Kinda puts it in perspective eh? A gathering on public property depending on the area usually requires a permit.

My guess this is how it went down.


Cop on Bullhorn
"Your demonstration is illegal, please disperse"

Crowd
"SCREW THE PIGS!!(or something like that) along with DOWN WITH BUSH"

Cop
"This is your last warning DISPERSE"

Crowd
[repeats earlier statement]

Cop
[talks to other cop] Well lets disperse them

[fires non-lethal rounds into crowd that at worst knocks one person over but more or less clears out all the Fall Sinus problems of the rest of the crowd]


You people complain to much.

stop talking like a control freaked parent

yet in this protest the only people who acted out if hand was the cops themselves

First of all, you don't know that. You use democracynow.org as a source. I'm not saying what they say is automatically false, but it would be like if I were to support lifting the assasult rifle ban using soldier of fortune magazine as a source. They, astonishingly, leave out important details that may jeopardize your case. What they say may be true, but they present it in a way as to implicate someone whom they predetermined was wrong. In all probability, it was the protestors fault that things transpired how they did.

Second of all, if it was an illegal protest, the "cops" did not act out of hand. The government's primary obligation is to protect its citizens. An unliscensed protest can, and ought to be seen, as a hostile gathering. The simple fact is that your safety is MORE IMPORTANT than your right to gather without a permit. The government does not infringe on your right to demonstrate, just on your right to demonstrate whenever you want, however you want, wherever you want.

Thirdly, you somehow use this to implicate Bush and Republicans because they are the focus of the rally. This is not only irresponsible, but false, and bordering on lunacy. There is no connection between this incident, and the GOP. To assert that "Bush orders Govt jackboots to shoot pepperballs at peaceful protestors" is ridiculous. You do not know the political views of the local police. You do not know of any connection to a greater authority. You don't even know the exact circumstances of the rally.

Finaly, before you tell someone else to stop acting like a "control freaked parent," I suggest you start acting like a "rational human being."

stop talking like a control freaked parent


how old are you? 7? 17?(seems more likely)

your the one that started the New York Pier 57 thread too. I believe i made some of the same points in that thread.

The way you want life to work and the way it does work are two different things. You want to gather a large number of people on my front lawn or disrupt traffic(not this incident but others) or do as you damn well please. LIFE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE PEPPERBALLS. Your interpertation of the constitution is not necessarily the right interpertation. You can go and reread that document but unfortunetly the only ones that can truly interpet that document are judges, since they are the only ones with the right to interpet that document. Like it or not that is also an aspect of the constitution. Now bring your argument up against a Circuit Court, a Court of Appeals and then the Supreme Court and see how far that gets you.

Cnn is in no way liberal and Democracynow may have a leftwing bias but the news stories they tell are true so I wouldnt call them "garbage"--whats garbage is all the spin on Foxnews where they just outright lie and make things up out of thin air. Democracynow just says real life events.

LOL do you even watch FoxNews? I mean other than the talking head shows, like Hannity and Combs. Lies! LOL... Fox is one of the most balanced news organizations around. And that just drives you crazy, doesn't it?

Man you need to take a vacation.

Oh and here's some info on why they fired.

Jacksonville City Administrator Paul Wyntergreen said the protest was peaceful until a few people started pushing police. Police reacted by firing pepperballs, which he described as projectiles like a paintball filled with cayenne pepper. Two people were arrested for failing to disperse. There were no reports of injuries.

Never push a man with a gun! LOL

Oh and for you FoxNews haters out there. They reported the exact same report!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135529,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6253816/

"Jacksonville City Administrator Paul Wyntergreen said the protest was peaceful until a few people started pushing police. Police reacted by firing pepper balls, which he described as projectiles like a paintball filled with cayenne pepper. Two people were arrested for failing to disperse. There were no reports of injuries."

Another case of mountains out of molehills.
This is hardly the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention.

people have a constitutional right to assemble and protest-if you dont like the noise wear earmuffs-I dont think protesters are any louder then Bush spouting his idiotic soundbites at a campiagn rally
No they have constitutional right to "Free and Peaceful Assembly", once any ordinance is broken, it is no longer peaceful, once they refuse to disperse it becomes a riot, once it becomes a riot gradually increasing force is applied to stop it.
They are lucky they didnt just get shot.
Pepperballs, big deal-sissies.

::mutters::

shoulda used 5.56mm and 7.62mm steel jacketed ball ammo justice, then there should have been complaining

LOL do you even watch FoxNews? I mean other than the talking head shows, like Hannity and Combs. Lies! LOL... Fox is one of the most balanced news organizations around. And that just drives you crazy, doesn't it?

Man you need to take a vacation.
and you need to see the Movie OutFoxed to see how truely unbalanced it is

No they have constitutional right to "Free and Peaceful Assembly", once any ordinance is broken, it is no longer peaceful, once they refuse to disperse it becomes a riot, once it becomes a riot gradually increasing force is applied to stop it.
They are lucky they didnt just get shot.
Pepperballs, big deal-sissies.
peacefully defying an unconstitutional ordniance doesnt magically turn something into being violent--and thats not the definition of a riot either

peacefully defying an unconstitutional ordniance doesnt magically turn something into being violent--and thats not the definition of a riot either

If the ordnace is unconstitutional, why don't you go down to the place and make the case in court? Because they certainly will not; they have at least some vestiges of rationality.

If the ordnace is unconstitutional, why don't you go down to the place and make the case in court? Because they certainly will not; they have at least some vestiges of rationality.
Under what law is it legal for cops to shoot upon an entire crowd of peaceful protesters when only 2 people are acten out?

Mob mentality is dangerous. It spreads. Two become four become twenty. The cops knew this and acted to end the problem at the root. Efficient.

Mob mentality is dangerous. It spreads. Two become four become twenty. The cops knew this and acted to end the problem at the root. Efficient.
I think the cops would look for any excuse to use their shiny new guns

If they wanted to do that, they can play FPS's or go to a shooting range.

I think the cops would look for any excuse to use their shiny new guns

A large mob started shoving a bunch of policemen, who then fired back with paintballs filled with pepper spray....

And you are whining?

What should the police do when they get shoved around? Turn around, drop their pants and give the protestors their baton?

Maybe they should remove their helmets when bottles start getting thrown!

Craig

A large mob started shoving a bunch of policemen, who then fired back with paintballs filled with pepper spray....

And you are whining?

What should the police do when they get shoved around? Turn around, drop their pants and give the protestors their baton?

Maybe they should remove their helmets when bottles start getting thrown!

Craig
that would be a refreshing change I must admit

my hatred for Bush is no different then conservative Brent Scowcroft who worked for Bushs father and who agrees with me that the idiot son is a threat to world peace and stablility and all the other disaffected Bush administration conservatives who retired rather then continue to work for this maniac of a President. Anyone who gets close to Bush looks in his eyes and realizes theirs no one home.
my hatred for Bush is no different then conservative Brent Scowcroft who worked for Bushs father and who agrees with me that the idiot son is a threat to world peace and stablility and all the other disaffected Bush administration conservatives who retired rather then continue to work for this maniac of a President. Anyone who gets close to Bush looks in his eyes and realizes theirs no one home.

How liberals can call themselves more "open-minded" than us is beyond me. Honestly, what is wrong with you? Your blind attacks on Bush's integrity, competence, and intelligence must be based logically on fact, right? After all, you're an unbiased, open-minded, patriotic American who is just questioning the corrupt government's actions.

I'm sure you know everyone that meets the president or knows him. Oh, Brent Scowcroft (whoever that is) said hes an idiot and a threat to the world. Well, I'll be darned, it must be true! That guy's on the same side as me!

You know, you're right, though, all of the conservatives in Washington retired for hatred of Bush. That's why America is now run by liberals.

Where are you GETTING THIS?

At least one protester, 65-year-old, Richard Swaney, was knocked down after being shot by police.

A paintball wont knock you down, no matter how old you are. A little bruse may be left, and if your hit in a tender area such as the hand you might bleed a very slight bit, but no matter what you wont get knocked over.



One mother told the Associated Press that she had been pushed by police as she held her six-year-old daughter. www.democracynow.org]


What kind of sick parent brings their six-year-old daughter to a political protest!? Especialy when the party the rally is being put on by has a history of getting violent? The police had full right to push her, and should have had her arrested and the child put in protective custody for child endangerment.

My God, I hate stupid people.

Because they take a biased view of things, pitting the government as bad guys. Don't worry, it's just what the liberals do. Run along and play, now.

But...the government ARE bad guys... :headbang:

I wont watch Foxnews because I have an aversion to the outright lying that goes on at that propaganda mill

I turn it on occasionally just because it's so funny that is can pass as a news channel. (Of course, it's also scary).

Under what law is it legal for cops to shoot upon an entire crowd of peaceful protesters when only 2 people are acten out?

"Two people were arrested for failing to disperse."
...that is NOT the same as 2 people acting up. That's two people who were SO not cooperative that they needed to be arrested.

The Cops are not fascists. They don't want to arrest EVERYONE. If they can get a crowd that was getting dangerous to disperse with a couple of arrests and a show of force, kudos.

But I know you. Had the cops done nothing and there was a riot, you'd say the cops were useless jackbooted wannabes that should have stopped the crowd so that 5 people weren't trampled to death.

Pfah.

What kind of sick parent brings their six-year-old daughter to a political protest!? Especialy when the party the rally is being put on by has a history of getting violent?
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040916/capt.wvrs10309162250.edwards_wvrs103.jpg

OWNED!!! :p

I turn it on occasionally just because it's so funny that is can pass as a news channel. (Of course, it's also scary).

Yeah, funny how it's the #1 news channel in America. You're right, though, everyone thinks like you do, and they're just watching it to see how stupid it is.

It's funny how you all scream "Right wing propoganda machine" and "full of lies" without ever basing that on anything. Just because it's less liberal than CNN doesn't make it a conservative propoganda machine.

I admit to having not seen any of the footage of this event. That said, am I to believe that Bush personally gave the order for the crowd to be fired upon. And seriously, are police officers truly govt jackboots. And is it truly peaceful to shove a man. I'd swear in my academy handbook, that is an assault charge, carrying a misdomenor penalty of up to a $5000 fine.

Listen friend, if you are going to bait, try very very hard not to get upset when the very title of your post get the torrents of fire rained upon you.

I am not a Bush fan, I'm not a Kerry fan, I'm not a "any-wing" fan, but I do like truth and rationality. I believe there are rules versus trolling, aren't there?

I believe there are rules versus trolling, aren't there?

I think MKULTRA gets special dispensation for being a source of amusement to so many posters :)

I think MKULTRA gets special dispensation for being a source of amusement to so many posters :)

Hey, shouldn't he have a clown car then?

Stupid people make me laugh. I don't mind listenting to people who have different views than me so long as they know what they are talking about.

Please MKULTRA, stop breathing.

Anyone find this story anywhere else besides a rampantly biased Democrat site?

The fact that this story doesn't show up anywhere else should be a little indicative as to the nature of the story. If the only source for this is some alternative extremely biased source, it doesn't mean it didn't happen or its not a story, but it does mean that its been manipulated by the source into a story for one side or the other and the actual facts of the story have been ignored. Say what you want about the mainstream being biased one way or the other, something like this would be a story as long as they reported it correctly and didn't try to sensationalize it. Remember what happened to CBS when they tried to pick up one of these alternate-media stories about the draft and about Bush's service record. They have far, far more people examining them and checking them then some site like democracynow or moveon or scarryjohnkerry and whatnot.

Peng - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6253816/

The Police acted to hastily. They should have arrested those who were acting badly. However, they didn't need to open fire on the crowd. That's simply uncalled for, if only a few people were acting out.

"Mob mentality", possibly, but they should have waited to see. Not all riots become violent. They acted prematurly. We don't invade middle eastern countries because a few people do bad things, and they may be planning on doing bad things, though they werent.

Oh wait, i guess im wrong. NM.

"Two people were arrested for failing to disperse."
...that is NOT the same as 2 people acting up. That's two people who were SO not cooperative that they needed to be arrested.

The Cops are not fascists. They don't want to arrest EVERYONE. If they can get a crowd that was getting dangerous to disperse with a couple of arrests and a show of force, kudos.

But I know you. Had the cops done nothing and there was a riot, you'd say the cops were useless jackbooted wannabes that should have stopped the crowd so that 5 people weren't trampled to death.

Pfah.
90% of all riots are started by the police themselfs

Yeah, funny how it's the #1 news channel in America. You're right, though, everyone thinks like you do, and they're just watching it to see how stupid it is.

It's funny how you all scream "Right wing propoganda machine" and "full of lies" without ever basing that on anything. Just because it's less liberal than CNN doesn't make it a conservative propoganda machine.
we call it rightwing propaganda machine based on studies and evidence and its not just less liberal its news as filtered thru RNC HQs

Anyone find this story anywhere else besides a rampantly biased Democrat site?

The fact that this story doesn't show up anywhere else should be a little indicative as to the nature of the story. If the only source for this is some alternative extremely biased source, it doesn't mean it didn't happen or its not a story, but it does mean that its been manipulated by the source into a story for one side or the other and the actual facts of the story have been ignored. Say what you want about the mainstream being biased one way or the other, something like this would be a story as long as they reported it correctly and didn't try to sensationalize it. Remember what happened to CBS when they tried to pick up one of these alternate-media stories about the draft and about Bush's service record. They have far, far more people examining them and checking them then some site like democracynow or moveon or scarryjohnkerry and whatnot.
then maybe you can explain why the lamestream media also didnt cover or totally minimized the billions of antiwar protests on a GLOBAL basis before Bush lied to invade Iraq?--the corporate media has an agenda of their own, and it isnt mine

90% of all riots are started by the police themselfs

Hey, with that reliable statistic, who can argue?

Hey, with that reliable statistic, who can argue?

I'd wager its actually 90% of riots are started when police turn up, and people react. Then there are the Rodney King style situations.

I'd wager its actually 90% of riots are started when police turn up, and people react. Then there are the Rodney King style situations.

Yeah, that's how it usually is. If the cops just never showed up, the crowd would probably get bored of having no one to antagonize and disperse.

Yeah, that's how it usually is. If the cops just never showed up, the crowd would probably get bored of having no one to antagonize and disperse.

Yeah, but if they didn't send the police out and a mob did rampage through a city, imagine the outcry.

In some PR situations, you just can't win.

Craig

I've been trying to get my hands on the peperballs for quite some time. *wrings hands and laughs deviously*

I've been trying to get my hands on the peperballs for quite some time. *wrings hands and laughs deviously*

I thought you'd have home made them by now like the kids in 'The 3 ninjas' ?

I thought you'd have home made them by now like the kids in 'The 3 ninjas' ?

Well, I have a few recipes, but nothing that'll work with a paintball marker.

90% of all riots are started by the police themselfs

So... do you ever... you know... PROVE anything?

The way that standsm, it has no more veracity than me saying...100% of you is an idiot.

That is, unless I start linking to your posts. :D

Ok as the only likely person in this thread that has had ANY civil Disturbance training (mine comes from the US Army Military Police Corps) I feel i need to through in a my two cents again.


when there is a shield wall up, it is typically put up to hold the protesters where they are, so they can't spread. Police and MP's typically only REACT to what the rioters/protesters are doing. You advance on the sheilds, we are trained to do nothing but stare forward stonefaced. You place a hand on the shield, well if we happen to smash it with a Riot Baton, thats your own fault. You rush the shield we will let our "recovery" teams grab you and arrest you. You throw water balloons at us, we do nothing, you add bleach or any other chemicals to the balloons we respond with Tear Gas(CS for the Military)

We try to target the trouble makers but if enough crowd members are acting in a hostile manner(shouting and whatsuch) then someone from the crowd tries to take a shield or break through. Then the whole crowd is retaliated upon. Now say we decide someone needs rescued, the wall will advance towards that person close enough for a Recovery team to go out and get them. And always we care about our safety and yours before your civil rights.

My advice, stay away from Demonstrations that are starting to get hostile to the police. Bad stuff can happen, just don't get caught in it.

This is just one of the many reasons why I F***ING HATE GEORGE W. BUSH!

Ok as the only likely person in this thread that has had ANY civil Disturbance training (mine comes from the US Army Military Police Corps) I feel i need to through in a my two cents again.


when there is a shield wall up, it is typically put up to hold the protesters where they are, so they can't spread. Police and MP's typically only REACT to what the rioters/protesters are doing. You advance on the sheilds, we are trained to do nothing but stare forward stonefaced. You place a hand on the shield, well if we happen to smash it with a Riot Baton, thats your own fault. You rush the shield we will let our "recovery" teams grab you and arrest you. You throw water balloons at us, we do nothing, you add bleach or any other chemicals to the balloons we respond with Tear Gas(CS for the Military)

We try to target the trouble makers but if enough crowd members are acting in a hostile manner(shouting and whatsuch) then someone from the crowd tries to take a shield or break through. Then the whole crowd is retaliated upon. Now say we decide someone needs rescued, the wall will advance towards that person close enough for a Recovery team to go out and get them. And always we care about our safety and yours before your civil rights.

My advice, stay away from Demonstrations that are starting to get hostile to the police. Bad stuff can happen, just don't get caught in it.

What common sense! If people followed this, maybe there wouldn't be stories of "innocents" being injured by police subduing a hostile crowd. People just want to be around the commotion then act surprised when things go to far and they get hurt. Well, demonstrate all you want that's your right but don't advance on the cops! Use some of those brain cells you supposedly have!

"Use some of those brain cells you supposedly have!" Best advice avaliable.

and yet no reply from the author of the thread.

Wow...... they disturbing the peace, therefore they're people who were unjustly attacked. At least they were peppered.

Damn MKULTRA, do you see FOX? I mean, at least get all the extremes :rolleyes:

*sighs and leaves thread*

wow. not allowed to protest in the streets. and america is supposedly sooo liberal

the brits are slightly better with protesting against parliament, but not in the case of the fox hunting ban. Then again, that was a load of drunk toffs, so who can blame the police for beating the crap out of them. (!)