NationStates Jolt Archive

So what? It doesn't change that they will have zero credibility if they air any of it 14 days before an election.. Now and for a long time to come.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20041019/ts_nm/media_sinclair_dc

So what? It doesn't change that they will have zero credibility if they air any of it 14 days before an election.. Now and for a long time to come.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20041019/ts_nm/media_sinclair_dc
Too little, too late.

They're hoping advertisers will stop leaving and their stock price will stop dropping.

Too little, too late.

I agree on both counts.. too little (they shouldn't be showing it at all 14 or less days before the election) and too late ( Sinclair has already showed it's bias nature in favour of the republicans)

If they had Dan Rather as the moderator it would at least be balanced if not fair. Anyway since when is it wrong to do a newscast on vets exercising their freedom of speech? Only OK if its Michael Moore? He can't even get PPV to air his trash.

If they had Dan Rather as the moderator it would at least be balanced if not fair. Anyway since when is it wrong to do a newscast on vets exercising their freedom of speech? Only OK if its Michael Moore? He can't even get PPV to air his trash.
its not freedom of speech if its libel

Anyway since when is it wrong to do a newscast on vets exercising their freedom of speech? Only OK if its Michael Moore? He can't even get PPV to air his trash.

People seem to have trouble understanding A) what qualifies as news and B) what qualifies as a 527 and C) what qualifies as PUBLIC AIR WAYS!

Michael Moore did none of the above!

its not freedom of speech if its libel

So over 300 men including his entire chain of command have ganged up on your boy Kerry and decided to tell lies about him? And all of the recordings of his testimony are all trumped up lies too? And saint Michael is truth incarnate?

Yeah right!

So over 300 men including his entire chain of command have ganged up on your boy Kerry and decided to tell lies about him? And all of the recordings of his testimony are all trumped up lies too? And saint Michael is truth incarnate?

Yeah right!

I believe your numbers are not even close to right.. In fact, I believe they're "made up"

So over 300 men including his entire chain of command have ganged up on your boy Kerry and decided to tell lies about him? And all of the recordings of his testimony are all trumped up lies too? And saint Michael is truth incarnate?

Yeah right!
the people who ACTUALLY serverd WITH him supported him ~8 or 10 years ago, we have video footages. and navy records support kerry, testimony from OTHER swift boat vets outside the nazis there support kerry, other records support kerry

it look like those bitter old people need to stfd and stfu

People seem to have trouble understanding A) what qualifies as news and B) what qualifies as a 527 and C) what qualifies as PUBLIC AIR WAYS!

Michael Moore did none of the above!

Oh please!! Michael Moore is the poster child for propoganda and libel. Those vets tried to protest Kerry using their pcitures in his ads months ago. When he and the media decided to ignore their requests they took it into their courts. How do you excuse over $85M being spent by 527s supporting Kerry and then get your undies all bundled when $500K is spent on Dubya? Lord knows I've had to suffer through the Kerry 527s for months. Its refreshing to hear something new.

I'll leave this to you liberals to sit around and Bush bash and compliment each other on your political superiority. I got work to do...I don't take liberal hand outs.

I believe your numbers are not even close to right.. In fact, I believe they're "made up"

You would know they aren't made up if you read something other than moveon.org trash. Try mainstream news. you MIGHT learn something.

You would know they aren't made up if you read something other than moveon.org trash. Try mainstream news. you MIGHT learn something.
wernt you leaving so you can be a capitalist republican dumbass somewhere else?

So over 300 men including his entire chain of command have ganged up on your boy Kerry and decided to tell lies about him? And all of the recordings of his testimony are all trumped up lies too? And saint Michael is truth incarnate?

Yeah right!

Documents indicate that Kerry's detractors were lying about his medals. All 200 hundred pages of Kerry's military records have bee released (though many still think they haven't,) and they back up Kerry's version of the events 100%. Of course, there are still those who think that Kerry wrote every word of his own record. Reason will not sway these people.

Furthermore, if you read Kerry's 1971 testimony before Congress unedited, you will see that he never accused all vietnam soldiers of committing attrocities.

In other words, all the evidence shows that the SBVT are lying.

How come when I ask about the part of Kerry's testimony where he accused all vets of being criminal, no one can provide it? You want to know why? Because it doesn't exist. Please prove me wrong. Where is it? How come no one knows what Kerry actually said, but they all condemn him anyway?

Isn't it telling that those who want to say Kerry betrayed all soldiers edit and twist his words the same way that a Vietnamese torturer would have? There's no way, if you read Kerry's entire speech, that you can come away with anything other than the impression that Kerry was passionately criticizing the government for misusing and abusing Kerry's fellow soldiers.

Again, prove me wrong. Be the first. Be unique. Surprise me. Why will no one even try to answer me?

You would know they aren't made up if you read something other than moveon.org trash. Try mainstream news. you MIGHT learn something.
By mainstream news DO you mean Fox News or just Sinclair broadcasting?? because you sound like one of their shills.

Plus if you truly believe Bush's campaign only put 500K into 527's then you really need the stand back futher while you pumping gas for a living because the fumes have damaged you.

So over 300 men including his entire chain of command have ganged up on your boy Kerry and decided to tell lies about him? And all of the recordings of his testimony are all trumped up lies too? And saint Michael is truth incarnate?

Yeah right!
They are getting sued for slander by a guy near where I live, for misrepresenting him in that movie.

wernt you leaving so you can be a capitalist republican dumbass somewhere else?

It never fails to amaze me that liberals on this board can call names and even when they're reported NOTHING is done. But let a conservative call down one of them and they've got warnings posted all over the board.

For your information, I don't pump gas. I have a degree in engineering and own my own business. I served 12 years in the Marines. And I don't have to read that lying traitor's words to remember what effect his "testimony" had on us when we returned from Nam. No one ever said that he accused all the GIs of war crimes. He said that it was rampant throughout and many were participating. I spent 2 tours and 3 months of that was upcountry and the only war crimes I saw was what charlie was doing. Everyone I was around went out of their way to try to help the children. You just had to be careful because the cong would strap bombs to them and then send them to a group of GIs. If they suspected a village had helped the Americans they would torture men, women, and children, kill them, then burn the village down. They were not nice people so get that out of your head.

OK you can start calling me and other conservatives names and patting each others backs for your unbiased happy crappy ideas. If you ever had to face what we did in Nam and actually had to work for a living you would probably be a republican dumbass too.

It never fails to amaze me that liberals on this board can call names and even when they're reported NOTHING is done. But let a conservative call down one of them and they've got warnings posted all over the board.

For your information, I don't pump gas. I have a degree in engineering and own my own business. I served 12 years in the Marines. And I don't have to read that lying traitor's words to remember what effect his "testimony" had on us when we returned from Nam. No one ever said that he accused all the GIs of war crimes. He said that it was rampant throughout and many were participating. I spent 2 tours and 3 months of that was upcountry and the only war crimes I saw was what charlie was doing. Everyone I was around went out of their way to try to help the children. You just had to be careful because the cong would strap bombs to them and then send them to a group of GIs. If they suspected a village had helped the Americans they would torture men, women, and children, kill them, then burn the village down. They were not nice people so get that out of your head.

OK you can start calling me and other conservatives names and patting each others backs for your unbiased happy crappy ideas. If you ever had to face what we did in Nam and actually had to work for a living you would probably be a republican dumbass too.

oh yes OF COURSE, it was john kerry's solde testimoney which caused you to be a bitter asshole when you got older from being despised for fighting a fucktarded war.


its super political kerry to the fuck you!


ps

its so easy to catgorize people. hes a marine, the brainwashed of the brainwashed. he would think bush is god if bush killed a baby on camera. he would block it out and pretend it didnt happen and then accuse kerry of eating kittens

Vietnam veterans faced a whole lotta crap when they returned to the US. Remember, those guys were drafted - unlike most of the volunteer kiddies in Iraq today, who signed up for a chance at a job and a post-secondary education and then suddenly found themselves fighting in a war. (Though I have sympathy for their situation, I still say 'Duh! You joined the army! What else do armies do?' Anyway, I digress.)

Pedie may be bitter and apparently unable to recognize the actual facts of the matter, but he doesn't deserve being called names. Vietnam was a scarring experience and public reaction to their return wasn't all open arms, either. Pedie seems to be searching for a scapegoat to blame for his experiences. While we don't have to agree with him, and shouldn't, we can still treat him with respect.

Vietnam veterans faced a whole lotta crap when they returned to the US. Remember, those guys were drafted - unlike most of the volunteer kiddies in Iraq today, who signed up for a chance at a job and a post-secondary education and then suddenly found themselves fighting in a war. (Though I have sympathy for their situation, I still say 'Duh! You joined the army! What else do armies do?' Anyway, I digress.)

Pedie may be bitter and apparently unable to recognize the actual facts of the matter, but he doesn't deserve being called names. Vietnam was a scarring experience and public reaction to their return wasn't all open arms, either. Pedie seems to be searching for a scapegoat to blame for his experiences. While we don't have to agree with him, and shouldn't, we can still treat him with respect.

Hear hear!

oh yes OF COURSE, it was john kerry's solde testimoney which caused you to be a bitter asshole when you got older from being despised for fighting a fucktarded war.


its super political kerry to the fuck you!

Kerry wasn't the only way telling the lies and demonizing the GIs. There was a whole horde of them. The Nam war was fought as an offshoot of the cold war (google it if you don't know what the cold war was). I enlisted and did what I could to protect YOUR freedom to voice your opinion, get an education, marry who you want and raise kids in a safe environment, vote for the man/woman of your choice, own a home, belong to a church, or just sit around and post inane responses in forums. I did not do that for you to call me names.

ps

its so easy to catgorize people. hes a marine, the brainwashed of the brainwashed. he would think bush is god if bush killed a baby on camera. he would block it out and pretend it didnt happen and then accuse kerry of eating kittens

YES I AM A MARINE!!!! I'll die a Marine. I'm proud to be a Marine. I worked hard, fought hard, cried hard when I lost buddies, and I am proud of my medals that I earned protecting YOU and YOUR RIGHTS.

If you want to speak intelligently about Kerry and his actions after he returned from Nam, you need to stop calling names and spouting ignorant accusations and LISTEN to the people who were there. I can't help but notice that the ones throwing blame and insults are the ones who are either in school, work for a government entity, are from Canada, or live on public dole. Which are you?

Not to get back on subject, but ...

MIchael Moore was brought up and if I remember correctly wasn't he blocked by the FEC from advertising his movie Fahrenheit 9/11 because it would violate campaign finance laws?

I am not familiar enough with campaign finance law and I have only given cursory attention to this story so can somebody explain to me why Fahrenheit 9/11 cannot be advertised on television or radio but Stolen Honor can be played?

Not to get back on subject, but ...

MIchael Moore was brought up and if I remember correctly wasn't he blocked by the FEC from advertising his movie Fahrenheit 9/11 because it would violate campaign finance laws?

I am not familiar enough with campaign finance law and I have only given cursory attention to this story so can somebody explain to me why Fahrenheit 9/11 cannot be advertised on television or radio but Stolen Honor can be played?
Because the FCC is run by a Powell.

So let me get this straight, its perfectly alright for Michael Moore to try and get his abominably ridiculous movie the day before the election, but its not alright for Sinclair to air this show on John Kerry.
And Sinclair is the biased ones....that I doubt.

Pedie may be bitter and apparently unable to recognize the actual facts of the matter, but he doesn't deserve being called names. Vietnam was a scarring experience and public reaction to their return wasn't all open arms, either. Pedie seems to be searching for a scapegoat to blame for his experiences. While we don't have to agree with him, and shouldn't, we can still treat him with respect.

I'm not searching for a scapegoat. I know what was going on in this country during the war. "tune in, turn on, drop out" Free love, unfettered sex, heavy drug use, and protest, protest, protest. Then Kerry and his buddy Ted Kennedy decided to hallmark his political career with "stunning testimony". Kerry has even admitted that he didn't tell the truth before the committee. That's when things got real ugly for returning vets. I actuall had a bag of crap thrown on me and was called a baby killer when I left my base shortly after getting back stateside. Kerry LIED. He's still LYING. and anyone who trusts him is a fool. He's lying and trying to scare people in his speeches now. What does he have to do for you people to wake up???????

If you want to speak intelligently about Kerry and his actions after he returned from Nam, you need to stop calling names and spouting ignorant accusations and LISTEN to the people who were there. I can't help but notice that the ones throwing blame and insults are the ones who are either in school, work for a government entity, are from Canada, or live on public dole. Which are you?
and you need to take your own damned advice and stop listening to only those people that spout opinions similar to your own

So let me get this straight, its perfectly alright for Michael Moore to try and get his abominably ridiculous movie the day before the election, but its not alright for Sinclair to air this show on John Kerry.
And Sinclair is the biased ones....that I doubt.
you seem to not realize you have to hunt down then PAY to see michael moores film. sinclair is FORCING the stations it owns to broadcast this peice of crap as news on PUBLIC airwaves

maybe you would like to learn to read so you are no longer selectively illiterate?

I'm not searching for a scapegoat. I know what was going on in this country during the war. "tune in, turn on, drop out" Free love, unfettered sex, heavy drug use, and protest, protest, protest. Then Kerry and his buddy Ted Kennedy decided to hallmark his political career with "stunning testimony". Kerry has even admitted that he didn't tell the truth before the committee. That's when things got real ugly for returning vets. I actuall had a bag of crap thrown on me and was called a baby killer when I left my base shortly after getting back stateside. Kerry LIED. He's still LYING. and anyone who trusts him is a fool. He's lying and trying to scare people in his speeches now. What does he have to do for you people to wake up???????
scare people?
by doign what? pointing out bush is a war monger and wants to remove individual rights while removing limitations on big business?


here is what a real scare tactic looks like


raising the terror alert level on 4 year old irrelevant information whenever the democrats start getting a poll boost. THAT my friends is a scare tactic

Veitnam vets faced alot of crap and fought in a war that never shoulda been--thats why Nam vets should hate Bush more then Kerry since Bush is the one who wants to start 4 more Veitnam wars in the mideast as well as reinstate the draft. But the nam vets would rather focus on some perceived ancient insult Kerry said 40 years ago.

I'm not searching for a scapegoat. I know what was going on in this country during the war. "tune in, turn on, drop out" Free love, unfettered sex, heavy drug use, and protest, protest, protest. Then Kerry and his buddy Ted Kennedy decided to hallmark his political career with "stunning testimony". Kerry has even admitted that he didn't tell the truth before the committee. That's when things got real ugly for returning vets. I actuall had a bag of crap thrown on me and was called a baby killer when I left my base shortly after getting back stateside. Kerry LIED. He's still LYING. and anyone who trusts him is a fool. He's lying and trying to scare people in his speeches now. What does he have to do for you people to wake up???????

No, Kerry DID NOT say he lied. He said he used some language he regrets using at the time, as it was overly imflammatory. How can it be Kerry lying when he was merely passing on the testimony of 150 veterans who told him about their specific experiences? Please, read the original testimony. His words have been twisted for too many years. The transcript, in it's entriety, is located on CSPAN's website.

I do honor your service, sir. I respect what you have done for us. Now I ask you to respect me and at least read the transcript. Maybe it will help to bury some hatchets. Maybe not.

What does he have to do for you people to wake up???????From what I have noticed in this campaign that people on both sides have that same question.

From my perspective the mud-slinging campaign tactics are the primary topic of discussion in this election (and others) and I think that that has hurt our choices for quality leadership in this country. People seem to know more about the dirt on Bush and Kerry than they do about the issues and personally that bothers me.

I do not support Bush because I do not agree with most of his policies, I do not think that he is willing enough to admitt when mistakes are made and I do not like the way his campaigns are managed (both 2000 and 2004 presidential).

I do not support Kerry because I do not think that he will be able to make unpopular decissions when it is needed, I do not think that he has his own vision of what America is and should be (at least not a strong one), and while I personally think that his campaign is closer to what I would like to see I do not like the way his campaign is managed either.

republicans invented the politics of personal destruction under Clinton in the 90s and when they hijacked the media and now the scum are getting some payback

Kerry wasn't the only way telling the lies and demonizing the GIs. There was a whole horde of them. The Nam war was fought as an offshoot of the cold war (google it if you don't know what the cold war was). I enlisted and did what I could to protect YOUR freedom to voice your opinion, get an education, marry who you want and raise kids in a safe environment, vote for the man/woman of your choice, own a home, belong to a church, or just sit around and post inane responses in forums. I did not do that for you to call me names.

ps



YES I AM A MARINE!!!! I'll die a Marine. I'm proud to be a Marine. I worked hard, fought hard, cried hard when I lost buddies, and I am proud of my medals that I earned protecting YOU and YOUR RIGHTS.

If you want to speak intelligently about Kerry and his actions after he returned from Nam, you need to stop calling names and spouting ignorant accusations and LISTEN to the people who were there. I can't help but notice that the ones throwing blame and insults are the ones who are either in school, work for a government entity, are from Canada, or live on public dole. Which are you?
Did you have that defense of McCain when Bush did the same thing to him as is being done to Kerry? Ultimetaly-Kerry went, Bush didn't. Sort of deflates most of the last part of the argument.

The first part, while the Vietnam war was sold as an extension of the Cold War, it was really nothing more than a civil war, a mess the French whiped thier hands of. Even MacNamara is able to see that now. Thing is, we lost-and communism still didn't spread across the world. Our efforts, our sacrafices-it was a mistake. Kerry, if you look at what he said, stood up for YOU-asked how can we send people to die for a mistake. That's whats important now more than ever-you where supposed to be used to protect my freedoms-that was the only condition under which we were, and are, supposed to ask for that sacrifice-and we betrayed that trust and are doing it again. I would think that if you took the time to step back and see what is being done, and what has been done, to the the trust and sacrifice of you and your brothers and sisters you would want someone with the guts to stand up and speak up for your safety, someone who would say that you are not desposable for a mistake.

I have friends in the military. I want to know them when they are old. I want someone who will respect the gift they've given the country and use only when it is absolutely neccisary.

Unfortunately this is only an indication of the problem: The media is extremely powerful in this current Age of Technology. This influences politics (both democracies as well as dictatorships).

Because the FCC is run by a Powell.
...that may just factor in there. *shudder*
I think the elder's a better man, of course.

Did you have that defense of McCain when Bush did the same thing to him as is being done to Kerry? Ultimetaly-Kerry went, Bush didn't. Sort of deflates most of the last part of the argument.

The first part, while the Vietnam war was sold as an extension of the Cold War, it was really nothing more than a civil war, a mess the French whiped thier hands of. Even MacNamara is able to see that now. Thing is, we lost-and communism still didn't spread across the world. Our efforts, our sacrafices-it was a mistake. Kerry, if you look at what he said, stood up for YOU-asked how can we send people to die for a mistake. That's whats important now more than ever-you where supposed to be used to protect my freedoms-that was the only condition under which we were, and are, supposed to ask for that sacrifice-and we betrayed that trust and are doing it again. I would think that if you took the time to step back and see what is being done, and what has been done, to the the trust and sacrifice of you and your brothers and sisters you would want someone with the guts to stand up and speak up for your safety, someone who would say that you are not desposable for a mistake.

I have friends in the military. I want to know them when they are old. I want someone who will respect the gift they've given the country and use only when it is absolutely neccisary.
Good post. A lot of interesting posts on this thread.
Nam sucked. All wars which are declared one thing but are some other horrible thing altogether suck. Let's not have any more of them. Maybe we can start by not supporting the current one. And by not propegating the bullsh*t through a public medium that is content not to know the facts of the situation. People don't need to hear that they don't have the facts of the situation, either, since if there were more honesty in that forum (and probably almost all of them) a democratic populace would be MUCH BETTER OFF. Note i didn't say republican populace.
Postscript, off subject ... didn't Bush say he took the anthrax vaccination, but also said he didn't take the flu vaccination? Seems kinda odd ... maybe, maybe not. Kinda ominous.