NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, here we go...

I'm voting John Kerry this year. I'm not very liberal; I'm actually pretty moderate. The problem is I don't see a REAL reason to vote for George Bush. George Bush has been president for almost four years now. If he's worth my vote, shouldn't he have shown me something in the past four years worth voting for? John Kerry has not had a shot in the executive position (he's ALWAYS been legislative) and so there is no telling how good or bad he will do. Politicians always make promises in their campaigns, and usually they don't fulfill all those promises. It's hard to say which promises he will and won't keep, so why waste your vote on the campaigns? Shouldn't this election be more about whether or not you think George W. Bush has done a good job over the past four years? I don't think he's been a good enough president to warrant another four years. So in closing, if you'd like for me to vote for George W. Bush, please bring evidence as to why I should vote for him. Do not compare him to John Kerry, do not use anything he has said in his campaign speeches, do not use conservative propaganda. Just show me the raw facts and I'll judge whether or not I think he's done a good job in my opinion and possibly change my opinion about who I am voting for.

(By the way, I don't want any propaganda from either side. I know liberals will post here, so all I want to see liberals posting is evidence. I don't want to see any politics in this thread, simply pure evidence.)

I believe that if you go back and review your 5 Thousand plus posts, you will find all the necessary logic to place your vote with Kerry?

I believe that if you go back and review your 5 Thousand plus posts, you will find all the necessary logic to place your vote with Kerry?
Those are all comparitive analyses. I want someone to come forth as a representive of the uncomparitive reasons to vote for Bush. My 5,000+ posts do nothing but show that I'm probably capable of picking up fallacies, biases, and comparisons.

Those are all comparitive analyses. I want someone to come forth as a representive of the uncomparitive reasons to vote for Bush. My 5,000+ posts do nothing but show that I'm probably capable of picking up fallacies, biases, and comparisons.

your asking for what isnt there

voting for bush is an ideology. Us vs Them. Its like an athiest telling a christian to prove god to them, its impossible because they have differant interpretations of how the world works.

These Bushites (lol) basically take faith in the fact that the president knows what he is doing and are convinced by his "vision of the future" (which is conveniently unattainable), catch phrases, like flip-floper, and simple reducing of some of the most delicate and complex international issues and turning them into "us vs them"

can I have an apricot?

Okay, here we go...

I'm voting John Kerry this year. I'm not very liberal; I'm actually pretty moderate. The problem is I don't see a REAL reason to vote for George Bush. George Bush has been president for almost four years now. If he's worth my vote, shouldn't he have shown me something in the past four years worth voting for? John Kerry has not had a shot in the executive position (he's ALWAYS been legislative) and so there is no telling how good or bad he will do. Politicians always make promises in their campaigns, and usually they don't fulfill all those promises. It's hard to say which promises he will and won't keep, so why waste your vote on the campaigns? Shouldn't this election be more about whether or not you think George W. Bush has done a good job over the past four years? I don't think he's been a good enough president to warrant another four years. So in closing, if you'd like for me to vote for George W. Bush, please bring evidence as to why I should vote for him. Do not compare him to John Kerry, do not use anything he has said in his campaign speeches, do not use conservative propaganda. Just show me the raw facts and I'll judge whether or not I think he's done a good job in my opinion and possibly change my opinion about who I am voting for.

(By the way, I don't want any propaganda from either side. I know liberals will post here, so all I want to see liberals posting is evidence. I don't want to see any politics in this thread, simply pure evidence.)

I'll play devil's advocate and fight for Bush this one time: I'll try not to make him sound bad :)

Well, George Bush gain the Presidency with many thinking Supreme Court gaqve it to him. Hard to prove what Suprememe Court was thinking so we won't go into that.

This caused a sense of oppression and dislike of him. So when he campaign to be a uniter not a divider perople thought, " this guy will lie to us more."

And due to sense of Self-filfilling prophecy they were right.

Anyway back to Bush.
Well even though they is a arguement he ignored a memo saying Bin Ladenb determined to attack US of America; Bush did his best to calm down a class of children on 9/11 and read a good book on goats.

He was in a daze by what happened and so in his anger he decided to attack the enemy located in Afganistan. He did good there and every country pretty much agreed.
Taliban was sent running and some hide but most were gone. Afagan was liberated from their repressive regime but thewy were not yet safe due to government being messed up.
Bush decided its as close to being finished as it could be and left only special forces in Aganistan. He instead sent rest of troops at Iraq after a little time passed and he got some unsupported reports that Iraq may have purchased yellow cake for nukes in Africa.

Demoestic:
He did no child left behind but didn't fund it as much as promised. He also put unrealistic standards but 2005 if you do not have 100% graduation you lose funding. (TRust me very few high schools get that)

He did some Clean Air and Water acts. Clean air allowed more pollution to be sent out by companies; lowered standards.
Water well arsenic limits were raised.
Um he cut taxes but he put us in a deficeit. So guess that didn't work. He refuses to raise taxes like Reagon did to spur economic growth and cause fiscial responsibility.

So I'm at a loss domestically.

He wants to hire judges that don't like abortion and yet says no litmus tests. He wants to ban gay marriage and take away states ability to decide what they want.
HIs Vice President says he wants it to be a states issue and not a Constitutional one but Bush is in charge.

Anyway, looking back... I'll say he did good in Afganistan :) (If you don't count the warlords controlling most of country. And the warlords have more sovernty than the goivt of Afghanistan using troops as a measure. Warlords are stronger militarily I mean better force.)

But eh that is just me.

your asking for what isnt there

voting for bush is an ideology. Us vs Them. Its like an athiest telling a christian to prove god to them, its impossible because they have differant interpretations of how the world works.

These Bushites (lol) basically take faith in the fact that the president knows what he is doing and are convinced by his "vision of the future" (which is conveniently unattainable), catch phrases, like flip-floper, and simple reducing of some of the most delicate and complex international issues and turning them into "us vs them" (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366585)

Guess you're right...

snip
Too bad it was full of political spin and stated with a negative attitude.

I always pegged you as a libertarian/old school republican. Well, now I know.

Yeah, vote for Kerry. He's not Bush.

Yeah, vote for Kerry. He's not Bush.

Yeah, vote for Badnarik. He's not Bush, either.

Okay, here we go...

I'm voting John Kerry this year. I'm not very liberal; I'm actually pretty moderate. The problem is I don't see a REAL reason to vote for George Bush. George Bush has been president for almost four years now. If he's worth my vote, shouldn't he have shown me something in the past four years worth voting for? John Kerry has not had a shot in the executive position (he's ALWAYS been legislative) and so there is no telling how good or bad he will do. Politicians always make promises in their campaigns, and usually they don't fulfill all those promises. It's hard to say which promises he will and won't keep, so why waste your vote on the campaigns? Shouldn't this election be more about whether or not you think George W. Bush has done a good job over the past four years? I don't think he's been a good enough president to warrant another four years. So in closing, if you'd like for me to vote for George W. Bush, please bring evidence as to why I should vote for him. Do not compare him to John Kerry, do not use anything he has said in his campaign speeches, do not use conservative propaganda. Just show me the raw facts and I'll judge whether or not I think he's done a good job in my opinion and possibly change my opinion about who I am voting for.

(By the way, I don't want any propaganda from either side. I know liberals will post here, so all I want to see liberals posting is evidence. I don't want to see any politics in this thread, simply pure evidence.)

You should vote Kerry because you're a "moderate" (in American politics in the eyes of the two major parties this actually means conservative), and so is Kerry. See http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/uselection.php

I always pegged you as a libertarian/old school republican. Well, now I know.
Are you saying I'm old school Republican?

Are you saying I'm old school Republican?

In that you have reasonable stances on economic policy. Old school like Coolidge, who had the good sense to take naps, play golf, and leave people the hell alone.

Guess you're right...

im always right

Are you saying I'm old school Republican?

ol'skool mutha fucka

In that you have reasonable stances on economic policy. Old school like Coolidge, who had the good sense to take naps, play golf, and leave people the hell alone.
Yep.

I am a swing voter that currently does not like either of the two primary presidential canidates and still have no idea who I will be voting for. I'd be willing to try and dig up some evidence to showcase the good of Bush's presidency but if it is to sway your vote then I would need to know what issues are important to you? It would not do much to hype up Bush's anti-terrorism stand if you are more concerned about about education.

So what items do you think that a good president should make a priority?

Personally mine are education first, economy second, domestic law enforcment third.

Well, let me put it this way...I just started college, which means if I graduate in 4 years (sometimes engineers like school so much that they spend a 5th year), I'll only be in the real-world work force for about 6 months before a new president is sworn in (or if Kerry wins this year, he may be re-elected in '08, etc), so taxes aren't really a huge issue to me. Plus, I may be going for my masters and that's at least another two years, etcetera.

HOWEVER, the economy is very important to me, becuase if it is in a slump, I might have a hard time finding a part-time job to help me pay for additional college expenses beyond what my scholarship covers.

Education isn't important to me right now. I can see it easily becoming the most important issues to me later on when I have children, but I already made it through high school, and colleges do a good job of competing so I know that my college will continually try improving itself.

I want to bunch Iraq, Afghanistan, Terrorism, and the UN all in a category and call it "International Relations," which doesn't necessarily effect me personally, but I kind of wish that the US could get more respect around the world.

As far as abortion and gay marriage go, so long as it's not in my constitution, I don't really care either way a whole lot. Neither one of them directly effect me, and I can't see either (except maybe abortion by rare chance) coming into the life of someone really close to me at all....


Is this of any help to you?

Well, with what you said is important to you and what you want in a president I think that you have already picked the right canidate for you between Bush and Kerry.

Bush supports a constituional ammendment on gay marriage and has made repeated steps to support pro-life views.

Polls have shown US support from foreign countries is continually ebbing which would indicate Bush's leadership is not encouraging global respect for the US

Education: I was not really able to find anything to show one canidate over the other on this one. They both seem to talk about supporting education but when it comes to action it seems half-assed to me.
Jobs and the economy ... You requested non propoganda to be provided but everything I was able to find was either argued so I guess that one will depend on who you ultimately believe.

Example of what I mean by argued points:

1.9 million jobs created in the past year alone
800,000 fewer jobs today than 4 years despite the 1.9 million jobs created
job market in recovery from 9/11
etc etc etc


This site has been providing some fair and factual views if you still wanted to look further.
http://www.vote-smart.org
Kerry - http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0421103
Bush - http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP9043

To all undecided voters, here is a guide: www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/voter.php

Example of what I mean by argued points:

* 1.9 million jobs created in the past year alone
* 800,000 fewer jobs today than 4 years despite the 1.9 million jobs created

That's not "argued points" or partisanship....since you presented both sides. There are 1.9 million more jobs today than there were in the aftermath of 9/11/01, but there are 800,000 fewer jobs today than there were in January 2000.

To all undecided voters, here is a guide: www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/voter.php
You are a "Middle of the Road" Independent
You have little conviction and even less loyalty. You expect politicians to cater to your outsized ego. If they catch Osama, you'll vote for George W. Bush. However, if you got laid off, you'll vote John Kerry


That's when I shoot the feminazi instead of the bible guy. I could go either way on that screen. When I shoot the bible guy, I'm a "typical Democrat."

Okay, here we go...

I'm voting John Kerry this year. I'm not very liberal; I'm actually pretty moderate. The problem is I don't see a REAL reason to vote for George Bush. George Bush has been president for almost four years now. If he's worth my vote, shouldn't he have shown me something in the past four years worth voting for? John Kerry has not had a shot in the executive position (he's ALWAYS been legislative) and so there is no telling how good or bad he will do. Politicians always make promises in their campaigns, and usually they don't fulfill all those promises. It's hard to say which promises he will and won't keep, so why waste your vote on the campaigns? Shouldn't this election be more about whether or not you think George W. Bush has done a good job over the past four years? I don't think he's been a good enough president to warrant another four years. So in closing, if you'd like for me to vote for George W. Bush, please bring evidence as to why I should vote for him. Do not compare him to John Kerry, do not use anything he has said in his campaign speeches, do not use conservative propaganda. Just show me the raw facts and I'll judge whether or not I think he's done a good job in my opinion and possibly change my opinion about who I am voting for.

(By the way, I don't want any propaganda from either side. I know liberals will post here, so all I want to see liberals posting is evidence. I don't want to see any politics in this thread, simply pure evidence.)


Opal: there is no reason to vote for either one: Nothing will really change, no matter what may be said in the speeches and debates. Both candidates are politians, and the only thing either seek is a grand title.

The fascists have already begun stealing the votes, tearing up "enemy" registrations, purging voter rolls illegally, more dirty tricks. They know they cannot win by an hoinest vote, so they will just steal an election.

Again.

The truth is beautiful, but it hurts like hell.