NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't usually conform to conspiracy theories, but Micheal Moore is right. The year 1984 is closer than ever, thanks in part to Bush's fear-mongering. Kerry is just as willing to defeat the terrorists and better equipped. Will you please stop the personal attacks and the sickening doublethink?!?!

George Orwell was no prophet, my freind.
He merely took a look around him, and wrote what he saw.



Seventy years ago.

You get me?

If george orwell is rolling in his grave...he must still be alive! Come back to us orwell! We miss you!

George Orwell was no prophet, my freind.
He merely took a look around him, and wrote what he saw.



Seventy years ago.

You get me?

Yes, and conditions have not improved.

My high school journalism teacher picked 1984 as the Fall play for this year... and, well, she wanted to do the poster with a picture of Ashcroft on the cover, but, yeah, that didn't get approved. :rolleyes:

Yes, and conditions have not improved.


Exactly.

If anything...theyve gotten even worse.

How the hell could you do 1984 as a play? You would have to really understand 1984 just to understand what was going on in a play, granted it wasnt 5 hours long or very very detailed(and expensive).

How the hell could you do 1984 as a play? You would have to really understand 1984 just to understand what was going on in a play, granted it wasnt 5 hours long or very very detailed(and expensive).


Not to mention that it would be the most depressing high school play you ever saw.

The rat cage over the head thing, would be pretty entertaining though.

How the hell could you do 1984 as a play? You would have to really understand 1984 just to understand what was going on in a play, granted it wasnt 5 hours long or very very detailed(and expensive).

Don't ask me how; I've only seen a few set designs for now. When I see it next month, I'll let y'all know!

George Orwell was no prophet, my freind.
He merely took a look around him, and wrote what he saw.



Seventy years ago.

You get me?

Pedantic agreement: well 56 years ago... (he just reversed the last two digits of the year he wrote it in to get a title) but yes, he was basically describing life in late war and post-war austerity Britain.

It's amazing how the people with most freedom complain the most....Be glad you live somewhere you can even debate whether you're free or not ;)

It's amazing how the people with most freedom complain the most....Be glad you live somewhere you can even debate whether you're free or not ;)
:confused:What kind of dullard, hausfrau logic finds that amazing? Look at the inverse.

It's amazing how the people with least freedom complain the least.

Not at all amazing, eh? It is perfectly logical that people who are freer to voice their opinions and feelings will do so: while those who must be more guarded, or even paranoid, will do as their condition dictates.

What I find amazing, in a dismal way, is when free people parrot what they are told without using their freedom to explore the truth of what they have been told.

Now that defies logic.

It's amazing how the people with most freedom complain the most....Be glad you live somewhere you can even debate whether you're free or not ;)

Well its a joke, but i'll bite.

You make a classic mistake:
freedom from speech not freedom of speech
think about if for a second.

If anything, Orwell would be turning in his grave at how quickly some people yell "1984" at political opponents..

Of course, this is the same Orwell who also said "pacifism is objectively pro-fascist," the way some have said of those who refuse to commit to the war on terrorism these past 3 years.. so. . ;)

If anything, Orwell would be turning in his grave at how quickly some people yell "1984" at political opponents..

Quite simple, i think: the word immediately gets attention. About anyone knows it. Its far better than say 'analysis on freedoms in the 21st century' followed by a 3000 character long analysis which might have better and more accurate points though will not catch as much attention.

Same as if i call you nazi even though you're not. People who agree w/me will start (e.g.) ignoring you.

Of course, this is the same Orwell who also said "pacifism is objectively pro-fascist," the way some have said of those who refuse to commit to the war on terrorism these past 3 years.. so. . ;)

What, except for the war against Afghanistan, we opposed all those wars quite actively ;) :)

Quite simple, i think: the word immediately gets attention.

Ever hear the story of the boy that liked to cry 'wolf'?

Ever hear the story of the boy that liked to cry 'wolf'?

It's one of my favorites. Certain American public figures should read it too... :headbang:

It all fits. The political correctness that changes our vocabulary, we always seem to have a shortage of something. Liek it was in 1984. Where as it was razor blades and shoe laces in 1984, it's oil and flu vaccine for us. Our leader seems to be a puppet (well, to me he does). But you could probably compare this to any point in time....right?

But you could probably compare this to any point in time....right?

The clue is in the title... 1948

Actually what is real funny is that now people are closed minded about being "open-minded"...If you don't plan out some elaborate please-all life view then you get pigeonholed into some off the wall -ism...Humanity at it's finest!

1984 is closer than ever?

What are you talking about? George Bush is doubleplusgood! (JK)
John Kerry is doubleplusungood!

But Michael Badnarik of the Libertarians is quadrupleplusgood!

I don't usually conform to conspiracy theories, but Micheal Moore is right. The year 1984 is closer than ever, thanks in part to Bush's fear-mongering. Kerry is just as willing to defeat the terrorists and better equipped. Will you please stop the personal attacks and the sickening doublethink?!?!

As I think I've already stated before, George Orwell was writing about a socialist society. This was even more apparent in "The Animal Farm."

The clue is in the title... 1948

WTF? There was nothing there but something called a "spoiler." What's THAT all about??? :(

As I think I've already stated before, George Orwell was writing about a socialist society. This was even more apparent in "The Animal Farm."

No, he was talking about an oppressive government, not a socialist system. I'm sure he didn't have Sweden and Denmark in mind when he wrote it.

No, he was talking about an oppressive government, not a socialist system. I'm sure he didn't have Sweden and Denmark in mind when he wrote it.
He was writing about a socialist/communist society that went wrong:

All animals are equal but some are *more equal*

You are right, George Orwell is rolling in his grave, but it's not for the reasons you think. Orwell would be leading the fight against islamofascism, not spiting it.

Here's a few quotes from Orwell himself:

The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States …


"If Mr. Savage and others imagine that one can somehow "overcome" the German army by lying on one's back, let them go on imagining it, but let them also wonder occasionally whether this is not an illusion due to security, too much money, and a simple ignorance of the way in which things actually happen...

What I object to is the intellectual cowardice of people who are objectively and to some extent emotionally pro-Fascist, but who don't care to say so and take refuge behind the formula "I am just as anti-Fascist as anyone, but--". The result of that so-called peace propaganda is just as dishonest and intellectually disgusting as war propaganda. Like war propaganda, it concentrates on putting forward a "case", obscuring the opponent's point of view and avoiding awkward questions."

Myrth is right, Orwell was actually a socialist, but he was vehemently anti-totalitarianism; he supported any U.S. foreign policy that removed totalitarianism from anywhere on the earth.

If Orwell were alive right now, he would be on the front lines of the journalist aspect of the "War on Terror" (Which is a misnomer for the "War on Islamofascism/fascism"). People like Chomsky, Pilger, Fisk, and Moore would be subjected to harshest scrutiny that Orwell could muster.

Make no mistake though, Orwell would be no fan of John Ashcroft, but he would, and this might come as a shock to you, would support president Bush's liberal Wilsonian foreign policy over Kerry's traditionally conservative realism.

If george orwell is rolling in his grave...he must still be alive! Come back to us orwell! We miss you!
Reminds me of a joke:
What would Princess Di (insert any dead celebrity if you wish) be doing if she were alive today?
scratching on the inside of her coffin screaming to be let out.

He was writing about a socialist/communist society that went wrong:

All animals are equal but some are *more equal*

Right, he specifically evaded anything which remotely was able to include nazis. :rolleyes: If you can't see he's describing an authorian society, well, then i'm sorry for you... there's no obvious ideology being described... except that its an authorian one. Besides, doing so would make the book far less timeless. It'd be a stupid thing to do.

It's amazing how the people with most freedom complain the most....Be glad you live somewhere you can even debate whether you're free or not ;)


Freedom and Democracy are an illusion. Anyone with a radical opinion are silenced or radiculed, most american media are only tout the party line and corperations run the whitehouse and other democracies( most current neo-cons are have huge stakes in oil and weapons companies)

Most non democratic countries are not nearly as bad as people say they are.

Freedom and Democracy are an illusion. Anyone with a radical opinion are silenced or radiculed, most american media are only tout the party line and corperations run the whitehouse and other democracies( most current neo-cons are have huge stakes in oil and weapons companies)

Most non democratic countries are not nearly as bad as people say they are.

Really? How many of them have you lived in?

Really? How many of them have you lived in?
none, but i can think of many were people live free and are weathy, examples include: United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Hong Kong, Singapore. plus many people i've talked to people online that have lived in China or Pakistan, say they are relatively free, minus the right to vote. I'm not saying i would rather live in china or pakistan, then say america.

As I think I've already stated before, George Orwell was writing about a socialist society. This was even more apparent in "The Animal Farm."

He was writing about "TOTALITARIAN" governments of any colour. But the gist of his book was (not so) loosly based on Stalinism which I hope we all think was a bad idea. Mr BLAIR (Gerge's real name. WOW) fought all his life for the rights of the working classes and the freedoms we excercise in the west. Perhaps if you read some of his other works "coming up for air" for example you might agree when I suggest he was more than just a propaganda machine but someone who could reflect other social issues.
By the way I live about 30 miles from his grave which I have visitred. and if he was spinning the locals would be powering their caravans (trailers) off it,

none, but i can think of many were people live free and are weathy, examples include: United Arab Emirates,
Wealthy compared to most of Europe, I'll go with; a centuries' worth of oil and gas production would keep any nation pretty well off. Free compared to other Arab countries, certainly. They do have something of a democracy though (the council is elected via proportional reprensentation by the leaders of the individual Emirates,) and the citizenry tends to be pushing for more rights.

Qatar,
Free, unless you don't happen to be Muslim. Also has been pushing towards democracy. Also has ridiculous reliance on oil and gas, but has reserves that will last it for a while yet.

Hong Kong,
Hong Kong's vague autonomy from China, the fact that it is something of a democracy (barely, though, and a few tyrannical close shaves (http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/09/09/china9325.htm) have happened,) and former British occupation helped maintain a fairly free and well to do population for about a decade. Deteriorating rapidly in terms of freedom, but then so's everywhere else.

Singapore.
Is very much prosperous. And free. And a Parliamentary democracy. Sorry old chap.

Pakistan's human rights record, civil rights record (http://www.hrcp.cjb.net/) and economy are a joke, though I haven't been paying particularly close attention lately. Last I checked it was getting worse.

America is ridiculously free and prosperous; it is a country where the "have nots", while many and growing, have access to clean, hot, running water, a disposable income, electricity, limited health care and an education to some extent.

Mr Orwell was a critic of both domestic and foreign governments and tended to be for the worker (and wrote quite a few pieces on literature and how it should be written and understood, all of which was really, really awful stuff that he seemed to make up on the spot. I had fun tearing him a new asshole in a dissertation I had to write for AEA.) 1984 was written due to his growing alarm of the support in Britain of Stalinism. I think he is cited far too often as an authority.

What I find amazing, in a dismal way, is when free people parrot what they are told without using their freedom to explore the truth of what they have been told.

Now that defies logic.How do you think religions get started!

Reminds me of a joke:
What would Princess Di (insert any dead celebrity if you wish) be doing if she were alive today?
scratching on the inside of her coffin screaming to be let out.

Did you hear? Princess Di was on the radio...

and the steering wheel... and the dashboard... and the windshield...