NationStates Jolt Archive

Name one country that was Communist. Not a country that claimed to be Communist, not a country that was viewed as Communist, but a country that actually was Communist.

Just name one.

Oh, and to make it simpler, here's a way to easily cross off non-Communist countries. Did it have a government? Any kind of government? If so, then it was not Communist. Plain and simple, since one of the basic principles of Communism is no government.

Umm . . . don't you mean anarcho-communist? Because technically it would be an anarchy, a governmentless state

Umm . . . don't you mean anarcho-communist? Because technically it would be an anarchy, a governmentless state

Well, from a Marxist perspective true communism isn't achieved until the state and the government/dictatorship of the proletariat whithers away leaving a communist society without a government: whether Marx was at heart an anarcho-communist is a debate best left for another time.

Name one country that was Communist. Not a country that claimed to be Communist, not a country that was viewed as Communist, but a country that actually was Communist.

Just name one.

Oh, and to make it simpler, here's a way to easily cross off non-Communist countries. Did it have a government? Any kind of government? If so, then it was not Communist. Plain and simple, since one of the basic principles of Communism is no government.

The closest you are going to get are probably the regions of Spain that established a system of collectivism during the SCW.

Are you intentionally overlooking the fact that for a communist society to exist it would need to either be world-wide, or completely isolated from all other countries?

Communism ~ Democracy: Labels of Theory

Name One Nation that can truly be considered a Democracy. Surely not the United States nor Australia. De facto governments utilize theoretical government labels as either goals to strive for or spins to propagandize. I find Mexico as probably the most communistic in action relative to the people's attitudes. But alas, in a global community, nary a Nation seems honest enough to truly classify its de facto nature. I.e. USA ~ Imperialist.

mikes hope

Name one country that was Communist. Not a country that claimed to be Communist, not a country that was viewed as Communist, but a country that actually was Communist.

Just name one.

Oh, and to make it simpler, here's a way to easily cross off non-Communist countries. Did it have a government? Any kind of government? If so, then it was not Communist. Plain and simple, since one of the basic principles of Communism is no government.

There is a difference between Marxism and Communism. Marxism was the THEORY as stated in the Communist Manifesto, but Communism was the PRACTICE that came to be. No, I can't name one ideal Marxist country, but I can name a communist country (based on the idea of Marxism but twisted to benefit individuals). The former Soviet Union.

Oh I know

SOMALIA!

No country has ever actually been Communist, because Communism only works out properly on paper.

There is a difference between Marxism and Communism. Marxism was the THEORY as stated in the Communist Manifesto, but Communism was the PRACTICE that came to be. No, I can't name one ideal Marxist country, but I can name a communist country (based on the idea of Marxism but twisted to benefit individuals). The former Soviet Union.

Nah: the USSR was at best a country which was trying to get on the road to communism.

1. The former Soviet Union, was a communist nation.
2. Communist Vietnam.
3. Communist North Korea.
4. communist Cuba.

It dosent matter if it was or is a dictatorship,
or what type of so-called government they call themselves,
communist, socialist or whatever that is still what
they represent communist.

1. The former Soviet Union, was a communist nation.
2. Communist Vietnam.
3. Communist North Korea.
4. communist Cuba.

It dosent matter if it was or is a dictatorship,
or what type of so-called government they call themselves,
communist, socialist or whatever that is still what
they represent communist.
So Iraq represents democracies now?

When you have dozens of 'communist' countries, all inspired by the same communist theories and communist heroes, all turning out the same way - complaining that the resulting nations don't match up with the desired outcomes is a bit ridiculous.
Marx had a theory. It has been repeatedly tested. It has failed the test. Now, that's not Marx's fault - there was no way to know until it was tried*. However, now that it has been disproven it's time to get over it and try something new.

*(Well, actually it was, if he'd bothered to understand Hegel's work he'd have realised what would happen. But even if he had, theories deserve to be tested).

No country has ever actually been Communist, because Communism only works out properly on paper.
you are absolutely right. http://67.18.37.17/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

humans are to self-interested to form proper communo-anarchism/communism.

No true communism has ever really existed. Amish are the closest to it. China was over powerful, as was the USSR, and the rest are socialist.

humans are to self-interested to form proper communo-anarchism/communism.

Actually, it's more accurate to say that they are too dependent on the establishment and afraid of alternative to form communism.

There have been many socialist countries that at least made an attempt to advance toward communism. I would argue that these were thwarted not because of any inherent flaw in Marx's theory but rather because either the material conditions made such a transition difficult or it was thwarted by outside forces.

The USSR degenerated from a true worker's state into bureaucracy due to a variety of factors, including the Russian Civil War's near annihilation of the tiny industrial proletariat. While Stalin's reign reflected this bureaucratic degeneration and was highly authoritarian, it was Kruschev's move away from socialist production relations (probably a backlash against Stalin's authoritarian, heavy handed policies) that doomed the USSR to a slow death.

In China you had something similar; socialism was reversed not by inherent flaws in socialism (economic growth from 53-58 actually averaged a fairly impressive %8) but by an internal coup by bourgoise elements within the party such as Deng Xiaping. This phenomenon, the developement of capitalist tendancies within the party itself, was a possibility Mao correctly pointed out but was unfortunately unable to alleviate.

Cuba has always been subject to post-Stalin Soviet social-imperialism, dominated by them much as they were dominated by the United States, so I don't think its fair to use them as an example despite the tremendous strides they've made. Vietnam's movement was primarily nationalistic and only secondarily communist; with the amount of devastation wrought on their country by American and European imperialism, not to mention the Chinese invasion, I'm not sure they could have managed it even if they were all that interested.

1. The former Soviet Union, was a communist nation.
2. Communist Vietnam.
3. Communist North Korea.
4. communist Cuba.

It dosent matter if it was or is a dictatorship,
or what type of so-called government they call themselves,
communist, socialist or whatever that is still what
they represent communist.

Also

5.Laos
6.Cambodia
7.South Africa
8.Zimbabwe
9.Egypt (under Gamal Nasser)
10.Libya
11.Iran
12.Mongolia
13.Poland
14.Czechoslovakia
15.Yugoslavia
16.Hungary
17.Albania
18.Bulgaria
19.Algeria
20.Angola
21.Mozambique
22.Congo (under Patrice Lumumba)
23.Chile (under Salvador Allende)
24.East Germany
25.Indonesia (under Achmed Sukarno)
26.Guatemala (under Jacobo Arbenz)
27.Nicaragua (under Daniel Ortega)
28.Palestine
29.Ethiopia
30.Romania
31.Venezuela (under Romulo Betancourt)

You asked one (sorry above), Romania, seen it, climbed there.
Near Brasov in the beautifull Carpaths,saw the bears :) (wich attacked last weekend :( )

BTW (above) lots of the countries you name were not communist. How the hell was Allende a communist or Congo (guess you mean Lumumba?).

I am born in Belgium and i can say that the government in those days made a commie out of him, just because they could not stand that we lost the Collonial money making Congo. bTW lot of the above is crap, you forgot real communist nations like Romania and added as a right wing nut countries that where nationalistic are just anti collonial (Egypt aso.)

You asked one (sorry above), Romania, seen it, climbed there.
Near Brasov in the beautifull Carpaths,saw the bears :) (wich attacked last weekend :( )

BTW (above) lots of the countries you name were not communist. How the hell was Allende a communist or congo?

Congo was under Patrice Lumumba. I think Allende is pretty self-explanatory.

The Soviets had lots of people in Africa spreading the word, my own uncle was in Ethiopia during his days as a ranger combating them....I don't think Ehtiopia ever went communist though....

Congo was under Patrice Lumumba. I think Allende is pretty self-explanatory.

Wrong again, see my eddit while I was bussy ;)

Name one country that was Communist. Not a country that claimed to be Communist, not a country that was viewed as Communist, but a country that actually was Communist.

Just name one.

Oh, and to make it simpler, here's a way to easily cross off non-Communist countries. Did it have a government? Any kind of government? If so, then it was not Communist. Plain and simple, since one of the basic principles of Communism is no government.


Hello....it's not going to be considered a nation if there is no government...do you have a brain?

Wrong again, see my eddit while I was bussy ;)

Yes, he was. Lumumba was a Soviet puppet. They even named a terrorist training school in the USSR after him.

You asked one (sorry above), Romania, seen it, climbed there.
Near Brasov in the beautifull Carpaths,saw the bears :) (wich attacked last weekend :( )

BTW (above) lots of the countries you name were not communist. How the hell was Allende a communist or Congo (guess you mean Lumumba?).

I am born in Belgium and i can say that the government in those days made a commie out of him, just because they could not stand that we lost the Collonial money making Congo. bTW lot of the above is crap, you forgot real communist nations like Romania and added as a right wing nut countries that where nationalistic are just anti collonial (Egypt aso.)

Since you're Belgian, you must have a better knowledge about Congo and Lumumba (hey you and the CIA killed him while giving him to Tsjombe) then Roach busters for whom each center person (Lumimba studied and was formed at the Catholic University of Louvain, far away from a commie nest) or left to center (Alliende) is a commie :rolleyes:

But that is why he is been seen as extreme right winger here.

Yes, he was. Lumumba was a Soviet puppet. They even named a terrorist training school in the USSR after him.

You mean the University in Moscow that still has his name?
Poor thing, you really are an extremist.
A terrorist school in USSR and Putin Russia? Again, what a lack of information you have. So biased :rolleyes:

That university still exist and is still populated by a lot of black Africans.

Poor thing, you really are an extremist.

Poor thing, you really are a flame-baiter. A lot of terrorists around the world (including the Sandinistas) were trained at that 'university.'

Since you're Belgian, you must have a better knowledge about Congo and Lumumba (hey you and the CIA killed him while giving him to Tsjombe) then Roach busters for whom each center person (Lumimba studied and was formed at the Catholic University of Louvain, far away from a commie nest) or left to center (Alliende) is a commie :rolleyes:

But that is why he is been seen as extreme right winger here.

A)The U.S. was extremely anti-Tshombe. The Kennedy Administration even supported the UN in their terrorist war against Katanga.

B)"Left of center?" You don't get much further left than Salvador Allende.

You mean the University in Moscow that still has his name?
Poor thing, you really are an extremist.
A terrorist school in USSR and Putin Russia? Again, what a lack of information you have. So biased :rolleyes:

That university still exist and is still populated by a lot of black Africans.

Wow, you googled it? (I just did, you're right) Bravo!
CIA factbook also says so.Winkepedia to.
Yep, he must be a extremist for talking such nonsense.

B)"Left of center?" You don't get much further left than Salvador Allende.


Hmmm, ever heared of Stalin, the khmer rouge, Romania Tschautsjesku or the same guys on the right specter (Hitler, Mobutu, and your hero Pinochet?) :rolleyes:

Back to school kiddo

Hmmm, ever heared of Stalin, the khmer rouge, Romania Tschautsjesku or the same guys on the right specter (Hitler, Mobutu, and your hero Pinochet?) :rolleyes:

Back to school kiddo

Hitler was not 'right-wing.' He's virtually identical to Stalin. Read, for example, The Russian Face of Germany by Cecil Melville, and Out of the Night by Jan Valtin.

And please stop with the eye-rolling. I find it very offensive. Argue if you'd like, but please refrain from rudeness.

Yeah kiddo, whatever :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

Well, Chile would have been a shining example of socialism. Of course we couldn't have that, so the US sponsored a fascist dictator who ended up killing over 3,000 chileans and exiling thousands more.

Hitler was not 'right-wing.' He's virtually identical to Stalin. Read, for example, The Russian Face of Germany by Cecil Melville, and Out of the Night by Jan Valtin.

Hitler was definately right wing. He believed in government involvement in the economy, but National Socialism wasn't really socialist at all, given that workers didn't own and manage the means of production. Then again, the USSR wasn't really socialist, either.

Well, Chile would have been a shining example of socialism. Of course we couldn't have that, so the US sponsored a fascist dictator who ended up killing over 3,000 chileans and exiling thousands more.

Yep and extremists prefer mass killing like Pinochet did instead of letting
a ellected government govern. But that is why they are extremists and support dictators.
Hell, I hate them all, wether they are right wing or left wing dictators, they just take power and kill because the democratic opponent does not fit their private money making agenda.

I would argue that these were thwarted not because of any inherent flaw in Marx's theory [snip]
The USSR degenerated from a true worker's state into bureaucracy due to a variety of factors, including the Russian Civil War's near annihilation of the tiny industrial proletariat.
So, the lesson is: bloody revolutions make a worker's paradise less likely, not more. This shows that the theory is flawed. Back to the drawing board.

The moment the Left started defending flaws in the Soviet system (so about 1919) we went from being Progressive to Conservative, as we were defending the status quo. Continuing to defend Marxism after the Soviet collapse turns one into a Reactionary. It's time to change. The Left needs to learn a few basic lessons:

Firstly, violence is our enemy. Any breakdown in social structures benefits the Right, as chaos means that there are no checks or balances on the powerful, while fear makes people turn to the powerful for protection. Peacekeeping operations, UN style, may be an exception to this, as the damage has already been done.

Secondly, we cannot cope with change as quickly as the Right. This is inevitable, as we are international in scope - coming to a concensus takes longer. As such, we need to take control of the 'traditionalist' niche - pointing out that basics of the Left, such as education and health, have been important for centuries.

Thirdly, to be taken seriously we need to exploit our international nature to assist in international negotiations. The Left could reasonably aim to be a worldwide force for peace and justice, using the internet and other communications to accelerate public understanding of problems in other parts of the world. This doesn't mean going 'America Bad!' It means intelligent critiquing of flaws in foreign policy, showing how failure to understand other cultures is causing problems. (In fact, it would do the Left the world of good to *ignore* the existence of the USA). Being International, the UN (and whatever successors organisations replace the UN) is a logical focus for the Left.

Fourthly, we need solid alliances with religion. There are equivalents of the Left within most religions. From Buddhist monks to Salvation Army officers, there are multiple intelligent, informed allies whom we are currently ignoring.

Finally, we need to accept that the Left, by it's very nature, splinters. We need to ensure that open communications are kept with splinter groups, and ensure that we can use these splinter groups as specialists, explaining different social groups within society to us.

Until this is done, the Left will remain a joke, lost in the 19th & 20th centuries.

CANADA IS COMMUNIST!!!!.....no seriously man, just cause they aren't hardcore pinkos doesn't mean they aren't socialist/communist.

Yeah kiddo, whatever :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

Evidently you didn't read my above post. You, my friend, definitely need to learn some manners.

And here are some good Allende sources:

Allende: Death of a Marxist Dream by James R. Whelan

March 16, 1971 issue of Punto Final

American Opinion November 1974

Chile’s Marxist Experiment by Robert Moss

The Crucial Day by Editorial Renaciamento

September 26, 1987 issue of Human Events

Yep and extremists prefer mass killing like Pinochet did instead of letting
a ellected government govern. But that is why they are extremists and support dictators.
Hell, I hate them all, wether they are right wing or left wing dictators, they just take power and kill because the democratic opponent does not fit their private money making agenda.

A)Pinochet overthrew Allende to save his country, which Allende was destroying economically;

B)If Pinochet was such a "dictator," why did he hold an election, just as he said he would and when he said he would, and then voluntarily step down when he lost?

C)Why was his constitution approved by 68% of the Chilean people?

D)Give me proof of Pinochet being a "dictator." So far, I've only seen ultra-leftist and communist sources claim that.

CANADA IS COMMUNIST!!!!.....no seriously man, just cause they aren't hardcore pinkos doesn't mean they aren't socialist/communist.

Yeah, the red danger comming from Canada.
Roach Busters will like that :D

Well, Chile would have been a shining example of socialism.

With inflation in excess of 500%, and over 1/3 of the workers on strike demanding Allende's resignation?

Roach Busters will like that :D

I hope you're not mocking me. After all, never before have I said anything unkind about you.

Yeah, the red danger comming from Canada.
Roach Busters will like that :D




LOL!!!!! :headbang:

Hitler was definately right wing. He believed in government involvement in the economy, but National Socialism wasn't really socialist at all, given that workers didn't own and manage the means of production. Then again, the USSR wasn't really socialist, either.

Thanks for disagreeing courteously, Letila. I like you very much. Never before have you flamed or flame-baited. You're one of the nicest people I ever met. I don't think you could flame if your life depended on it.

A)Pinochet overthrew Allende to save his country, which Allende was destroying economically;

B)If Pinochet was such a "dictator," why did he hold an election, just as he said he would and when he said he would, and then voluntarily step down when he lost?

C)Why was his constitution approved by 68% of the Chilean people?

D)Give me proof of Pinochet being a "dictator." So far, I've only seen ultra-leftist and communist sources claim that.

A) No the CIA helped him when they planned and financed the truck drivers strike. Wich lead to economic problems, not vers versa like your propaganda tells us. The facist story of destroying the economy is old and counterspeaken by 90% of the US public, even Bush does see him as a dictator now.

B) Allende did not kill "3000" it was above 9000 with the "desaparesidos" included. Pinochet did.

C) No it was not, just like Stalin had high scores because he faked the election, every observer(UK, UN, even US republican sources aso.) said that it was fake.

D) Well just read a decent worldwide US source and you know.(I say US because the rest of the world is "Commie" for extremist like you) I know, extremists like you will never say that you're hero Pinochet was wrong with the mass killing of political opponents. Says enough about you :rolleyes:

Come on join the year 2004 and get out of the seventies.

Hmm, Basil where are you, weasel!

23.Chile (under Salvador Allende)

No. Socialist, and pro-Communist, but not in itself communist, even his most staunch political opponents at the time complained that Allende was going to try and introduce communism, but they themselves recognised that Chile was never a communist state.

Poor thing, you really are a flame-baiter. A lot of terrorists around the world (including the Sandinistas) were trained at that 'university.'

Question were the Sandinista's supposedly trained at this supposed 'terrorist' university before or after the revolution in Nicaragua?

10.Libya


Socialist. Qaddafi is both anti-capitalist and anti-communist.

A) No the CIA helped him when they planned and financed the truck drivers strike. Wich lead to economic problems, not vers versa like your propaganda tells us. The facist story of destroying the economy is old and counterspeaken by 90% of the US public, even Bush does see him as a dictator now.

B) Allende did not kill "3000" it was above 9000 with the "desaparesidos" included. Pinochet did.

C) No it was not, just like Stalin had high scores because he faked the election, every observer(UK, UN, even US republican sources aso.) said that it was fake.

D) Well just read a decent worldwide US source and you know.(I say US because the rest of the world is "Commie" for extremist like you) I know, extremists like you will never say that you're hero Pinochet was wrong with the mass killing of political opponents. Says enough about you :rolleyes:

Come on join the year 2004 and get out of the seventies.

Hmm, Basil where are you, weasel!

You wouldn't happen to be related to a guy named Drabikstan, would you?

Question were the Sandinista's supposedly trained at this supposed 'terrorist' university before or after the revolution in Nicaragua?

Before and after. Mostly before.

Also

7.South Africa


???

Hmmm, ever heared of Stalin, the khmer rouge, Romania Tschautsjesku or the same guys on the right specter (Hitler, Mobutu, and your hero Pinochet?) :rolleyes:

Back to school kiddo


Pinochet wasn't a real great guy. But he was good for the economy. And the Chilean people liked him.*

*Chilean people in my neighborhod who fled after he retired.

Im surprised no one mentioned the Paris Commune. Not a country, but one of the closest things to communism.

Before and after. Mostly before.

Can you validate this anywhere on line?

If it was after then they certainly weren't terrorists, as they were the ruling party of the state.

BWO, thanks for following the Letila/Unified West Africa example (i.e., respectful, polite, courteous, incapable of flaming, etc.).

Can you validate this anywhere on line?

If it was after then they certainly weren't terrorists, as they were the ruling party of the state.

Validate, yes. Validate online, no. Sorry. :(

Validate, yes. Validate online, no. Sorry. :(

Ah well.


Exactly what criteria are you using to determine whether a country was communist or not? - there are several in your list which are/were at best socialist by any standard definition of the term.

Ah well.


Exactly what criteria are you using to determine whether a country was communist or not? - there are several in your list which are/were at best socialist by any standard definition of the term.

Countries that were not just socialist, but also strongly pro-Soviet and supportive of communists around the world (Libya, Egypt [under Nasser], etc.).

Also

11.Iran

Theocratic republic, shurely?

Are we forgeting Canada!?!?!?! Just cuz they don't kill all of thier people that do not agree with the government doesn't mean they aren't Socialist/Communist....well more socialist, but w/e.

Countries that were not just socialist, but also strongly pro-Soviet and supportive of communists around the world (Libya, Egypt [under Nasser], etc.).

So, by your own admission, when asked for a list of countries that were communist, and had no government, you give in answer a list of countries that include those that had governments, were socialist or were supportive of communist states. Your answer in itself shows that they weren't communist states.

Are we forgeting Canada!?!?!?! Just cuz they don't kill all of thier people that do not agree with the government doesn't mean they aren't Socialist/Communist....well more socialist, but w/e.

Canada, the Scandinavian countries, etc. are democratic socialists. They are also almost 100% devoid of corruption and among the world's most peaceful and progressive nations.

Umm......China?

Countries that were not just socialist, but also strongly pro-Soviet and supportive of communists around the world (Libya, Egypt [under Nasser], etc.).


Hmm, in your other post they were all "Communist". Getting back to a more decent form of regarding history :rolleyes: Or are you just acting like your hero says, "You can run but you can not hide".

Pitty that you are non consistent in your die hard extreme opinions and that you're softening a bit now (above). Come, you called them commie. Don't get back now :rolleyes:

Hmm, in your other post they were all "Communist". Getting back to a more decent form of regarding history :rolleyes: Or are you just acting like your hero says, "You can run but you can not hide".

Pitty that you are non consistent in your die hard extreme opinions and that you're softening a bit now (above). Come, you called them commie. Don't get back now :rolleyes:

Don't be an asshole, please.

Umm......China?

Oh, and to make it simpler, here's a way to easily cross off non-Communist countries. Did it have a government? Any kind of government? If so, then it was not Communist. Plain and simple, since one of the basic principles of Communism is no government.

...

Don't be an asshole, please.
Don't be it yourself, please :rolleyes:

Don't be it yourself, please :rolleyes:

All right. My apologies. Please, however, stop with the eye-rolling.

So...

Since every civillization since the dawn of time, has had one form of government or another, the author is trying to imply that there arent any now, nor have there ever been, any "True" Communistic countries, or civillizations.

Excellent.

It seems we no longer need to debate the issue.

All right. My apologies. Please, however, stop with the eye-rolling.

OK, understood, I will give you a big :) because of your fierce and strong (don(t know if the word is OK in English) standing up for your opinion.

You are a very good debater. Let that be obvious! But I have a different opinion about Pinochet for example since I had refugees of his regime in my "patrole" when I was a boy scout. The two boys father was a "desaperido", he was a union worker and devote christian. Their experience with the regime was hard and they lost a family member due to Pinochet.

OK, understood, I will give you a big :) because of your fierce and strong (don(t know if the word is OK in English) standing up for your opinion.

You are a very good debater. Let that be obvious! But I have a different opinion about Pinochet for example since I had refugees of his regime when I was a boy scout. The two boys father was a "desaperido", he was a union worker and devote christian. Their experience with the regime was hard and they lost a family member due to Pinochet.

Please give them my condolences. Again, my apologies. I've been a true d***head. May we bury the hatchet and be friends? You're a good debater, too. :)

. I've been a true d***head.

No, you haven't been, you just have you point and I have mine.
There was no hatchet between us so we have not to burry it.

Nice to have a strong, decent oponent, that is what makes the General forum great!

No, you haven't been, you just have you point and I have mine.
There was no hatchet between us so we have not to burry it.

Nice to have a strong, decent oponent, that is what makes the General forum great!

Thanks. Could we be friends as well as opponents? ;)

Thanks. Could we be friends as well as opponents? ;)

Of course, and do know that I appreciete your opinion!

But, bedtime now, have a groop of climbers that arrive tomorow at my humble place. Have to make dinner for them and give them a introduction at our local climbing site.

All the best :)

Canada, the Scandinavian countries, etc. are democratic socialists. They are also almost 100% devoid of corruption and among the world's most peaceful and progressive nations.

They are still capitalist countries.

Name one country that was Communist. Not a country that claimed to be Communist, not a country that was viewed as Communist, but a country that actually was Communist.

Just name one.


What, exactly, is your point?

What, exactly, is your point?
I don't think there is one. Someone is just trying to create argument and controversy to ease their own boredom and maybe laugh at all the people who get serious about it. That's why I'd do it, anyway. ;)

Canada, the Scandinavian countries, etc. are democratic socialists. They are also almost 100% devoid of corruption and among the world's most peaceful and progressive nations.


So are you saying that communism has to be corupt and devoid, or its not communism, its socialism. Cause i thought that communism was a government for the proliterat er w/e dont know how to spell it, but Canada is preaty much a government for the proliterat, ya know with all the social medical care, and stuff. :confused:

Far Out

Is it really possible that the USA is surrounded by Commies?
(Canada and Mexico)

Please Please Please don't tell Mr Bush.

We are killing enough people already in the Middle East.

Far Out

Is it really possible that the USA is surrounded by Commies?
(Canada and Mexico)

Please Please Please don't tell Mr Bush.

We are killing enough people already in the Middle East.



LOL good one. :headbang: