NationStates Jolt Archive

In my recent thread on Bush, I got many Americans saying, essentially, "Europeans don't like Bush because they're lefties".

Why do you think this? Many Europeans are conservative and most European countries have right-wing governments at the moment.

Why does this stereotype exist?

In my recent thread on Bush, I got many Americans saying, essentially, "Europeans don't like Bush because they're lefties".

Why do you think this? Many Europeans are conservative and most European countries have right-wing governments at the moment.

Why does this stereotype exist?
Because the american left is to the right of the the European right.

Because it's convenient. It's easier to demonize an entire continent that occasionally disagrees with you than it is to actually engage in debate, and demonization is what we're all about here in the US, it seems.

Personally, I know that Europe is not fully socialist, although their governments are generally closer to it than the US government is, but what's more important, I don't see what the problem is with that. I think the US could do with a bit more care for the least advantaged among us, even if it means the richest have to go a bit out of pocket for it.

Because the american left is to the right of the the European right.

definately in countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark...

I'm not sure about the rest though. I don't have enough information.

In my recent thread on Bush, I got many Americans saying, essentially, "Europeans don't like Bush because they're lefties".

Why do you think this? Many Europeans are conservative and most European countries have right-wing governments at the moment.

Why does this stereotype exist?
They do because they generally don't think outside of the box about other nations. It's easier to follow the flock like good sheep. ;)

definately in countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark...

I'm not sure about the rest though. I don't have enough information.
Which, to the American public, is "Europe".

Might've been said before, but our liberals are your conservatives.

Might've been said before, but our liberals are your conservatives.
I believe it. After all, your left-wing party is our right wing one... o_O

Because the US "left" is Europe's extreme-right. Logically most Europeans will be "lefties"

Because the American "center" is generally Europe's "far-right." You have national medical coverage and far more overarching governmental control of private life, which generally leaves a bad taste in Americans' mouths. On the other side, since we lack programs you like, you think we're heartless and not nice to the downtrodden. Neither view is really fair, but that's a large part of it.

Because the american left is to the right of the the European right.

Pretty much, although that's tarring them all with the same brush, which is what we're accusing them of.

It always seems odd to me that in the 'Land of the Free' where, by law, the word "Liberty" is emblazoned across every coin, to call a politician 'liberal' is a slur second only to calling them Nazi or Communist.

Roll-on Nov 2. And let's hope they count properly this time...

Pretty much, although that's tarring them all with the same brush, which is what we're accusing them of.

It always seems odd to me that in the 'Land of the Free' where, by law, the word "Liberty" is emblazoned across every coin, to call a politician 'liberal' is a slur second only to calling them Nazi or Communist.

Roll-on Nov 2. And let's hope they count properly this time...
Liberals are extremists, as are Nazis, as are communists, as are Neo-cons. We like the center. It's happy.

And in every recount ever done, Bush won. So if that's what you mean, have a cookie.

I think most those country's are further left than here (UK), being called a lefty makes me sad :(.

Liberals are extremists, as are Nazis, as are communists, as are Neo-cons. We like the center. It's happy.

And in every recount ever done, Bush won. So if that's what you mean, have a cookie.


Where I come from, liberal is centre. Communist > Socialist > Social Democrat > Liberal > Christian Democrat > Nationalist > Fascist.

I would love to meet a liberal extremeist. "BE FREE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT, OR ELSE I'M GOING TO MAKE YOU!!!" that has to rank with "imposing democracy".

The election was decided by a ruling of the (naturally conservative) supreme court, not the ballot box like it should have been. Never mind the fact that it was encumbent on Congress to nominate the President if the election result was unclear. Just call in the lawyers and carry out a judicially-endorsed coup d'etat under everybody's nose instead. Of course Bush won every recount. His brother was Governor of Florida, The Florida Secretary of State who certified the vote count was also the head of the Bush campaign team (just a teenie conflict of interest there) and Bush's cousin John Ellis was running Fox News's national election coverage. Thats just to name the 3 biggest factors - there's a score more.

I like the centre too, and look forward to the day when American politics returns there. I just hope it can get there before the world explodes.

Now where's my damn cookie? :headbang:

In my recent thread on Bush, I got many Americans saying, essentially, "Europeans don't like Bush because they're lefties".

Why do you think this? Many Europeans are conservative and most European countries have right-wing governments at the moment.

Why does this stereotype exist?
Major American Media bills Europe as Left of Center, they focus on where European Governments disagree with out government--sensationalism gets higher ratings then talking about everyone getting along nicely.

Where I come from, liberal is centre. Communist > Socialist > Social Democrat > Liberal > Christian Democrat > Nationalist > Fascist.

I would love to meet a liberal extremeist. "BE FREE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT, OR ELSE I'M GOING TO MAKE YOU!!!" that has to rank with "imposing democracy".

The election was decided by a ruling of the (naturally conservative) supreme court, not the ballot box like it should have been. Never mind the fact that it was encumbent on Congress to nominate the President if the election result was unclear. Just call in the lawyers and carry out a judicially-endorsed coup d'etat under everybody's nose instead. Of course Bush won every recount. His brother was Governor of Florida, The Florida Secretary of State who certified the vote count was also the head of the Bush campaign team (just a teenie conflict of interest there) and Bush's cousin John Ellis was running Fox News's national election coverage. Thats just to name the 3 biggest factors - there's a score more.

I like the centre too, and look forward to the day when American politics returns there. I just hope it can get there before the world explodes.

Now where's my damn cookie? :headbang:
A liberal wants to change the country, as do the conservatives. Moderates like it where it is. The recounts done after the election by any bipartisan committee gave Bush the win, there was some website where you could do it yourself and see the margins and whatnot.

marcia, when americans call someone a "liberal", they're referring the 1970's+ modern liberalism, not classical liberalism (which would be libertarian to them), which I imagine is what you're referring to.

Europeans (as well as Canadians) will legalize drugs, prostitution, and gay marriage long before America does.

So in that respect, I think they are "left" (using the American meaning of "left") of the US.

It's true that politics in America is to the right of European politics, but I just don't understand why Americans think we're all uber-liberal socialists.

:headbang: Major American Media bills Europe as Left of Center, they focus on where European Governments disagree with our government--sensationalism gets higher ratings then talking about everyone getting along nicely.

It's true that politics in America is to the right of European politics, but I just don't understand why Americans think we're all uber-liberal socialists.
Because if your leaders were running for Senator over here, they'd be uber-liberal socialists.

It's true that politics in America is to the right of European politics, but I just don't understand why Americans think we're all uber-liberal socialists.

because in so far as facts about the outside world are allowed to penetrate the american collective sense of what's what, we prefer them in glib soundbite format.

maybe it was said, maybe it was not, but fuck the poor. If i could take every dime of mine, that was taxed for some social program that helps the shiftless, back i would. If they want to bitch about how tough their life is here being "poor" then I'll gladly take all that tax money and put it toward a program that sends them to a 3rd world country, to learn the meaning of poor.

A liberal wants to change the country, as do the conservatives. Moderates like it where it is. The recounts done after the election by any bipartisan committee gave Bush the win, there was some website where you could do it yourself and see the margins and whatnot.

Hmmm.

In my dicitionary, conservative could be paraphrased as "wanting to keep things the way they are" (i.e. to conserve the status quo), which, paradoxically, in the US would make a liberal the conservative and the "conservative" the radical. Bizarre.

To my mind, a liberal doesn't want to change the country, just so long as that country doesn't interefere in his/her business too much.

Recounts - who knows? There are also stats that show Gore had a majority of up to 171. "Lies, damn lies... and statistics". And then there's the complaints of disenfranchisment that weren't supported in congress by any senators.

It's all water under the bridge, I'm just pissed cause the guy who 'won' the election seems to fall short of the qualities required for the job on so many issues. I also strongly disagree with his politics. But who's to say President Gore would have done any better?

I shall henceforth redefine myself as a neo-pragmatist-centralist to avoid any future doubt.

Why does this stereotype exist?
Coz of Scandinavia - they are actually the more socialist part of Europe than anywhere else

marcia, when americans call someone a "liberal", they're referring the 1970's+ modern liberalism, not classical liberalism (which would be libertarian to them), which I imagine is what you're referring to.

The distinction evades me. :confused:

Hmmm.

In my dicitionary, conservative could be paraphrased as "wanting to keep things the way they are" (i.e. to conserve the status quo), which, paradoxically, in the US would make a liberal the conservative and the "conservative" the radical. Bizarre.

To my mind, a liberal doesn't want to change the country, just so long as that country doesn't interefere in his/her business too much.

Recounts - who knows? There are also stats that show Gore had a majority of up to 171. "Lies, damn lies... and statistics". And then there's the complaints of disenfranchisment that weren't supported in congress by any senators.

It's all water under the bridge, I'm just pissed cause the guy who 'won' the election seems to fall short of the qualities required for the job on so many issues. I also strongly disagree with his politics. But who's to say President Gore would have done any better?

I shall henceforth redefine myself as a neo-pragmatist-centralist to avoid any future doubt.
In America "liberals" want to bring in more governmental control, a "conservative" wants less. Dictionaries don't mean squat.

The distinction evades me. :confused:
Libertarians are the "I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't F*** with me party."

Democrats are the "liberals."

yeah, here the liberal party is the centrist party.

conservatives are the right and ndp are the left.

then you've got the bloc who are left (i think) and green who are really all about the environmental issues to my knowledge.

there are an assortment of further right parties as well... but they don't win seats.

In America "liberals" want to bring in more governmental control, a "conservative" wants less. Dictionaries don't mean squat.

then why do the conservatives want to control abortive rights and gay rights?

In my recent thread on Bush, I got many Americans saying, essentially, "Europeans don't like Bush because they're lefties".

Why do you think this? Many Europeans are conservative and most European countries have right-wing governments at the moment.

Why does this stereotype exist?Europeans, why do you think all of us Americans think that you're lefties? What a stereotype

Liberals are extremists, as are Nazis, as are communists, as are Neo-cons. We like the center. It's happy.

And in every recount ever done, Bush won. So if that's what you mean, have a cookie.

"Liberal" in Europe is the same as "Libertarian" in the US. The original meaning of the word "LIberal" is near to the US definition. It got hijacked by European conservatives and European classic capitalists in the beginning of 1900.

Nothing wrong with extremists btw. Extremists decided to make the US independent from UK :)

then why do the conservatives want to control abortive rights and gay rights?

:D

My oh my. Liberals, socialists, communists, they're all left and the same in the United States of the America.

In America "liberals" want to bring in more governmental control, a "conservative" wants less. Dictionaries don't mean squat.

How does wanting to introduce more controls make them liberal? Which conservative over there first came up with the crazy idea that government control of people = liberty? Which brings me back to my first point, why make liberal a dirty word to throw at socialists? If you don't like them fair enough, but call a spade a spade.

I shall form a Revolutionary Liberal Party, and we shall storm congress. Once there we will distribute dictionaries, and make the politicians look up the words liberal, liberty, conservative, theocrat and 'social democracy', before giving them a lecture on how you can mix socialism (NOT communism - not the same thing, add that to my Dictionary 101 syllabus) and capitalism so the rich can be rich without thoroughly screwing the poor.

Being fair-minded, socially-responsible centrists, the RLP would of course subsequently pay for any damage caused...

The distinction evades me.

classical liberalism amounts to less government control of everything, both social and economic issues.

modern liberalism while agreeing with a lot of civil freedoms (there are some distinct opposition though, guns for example), amounts to "the quest for bigger government" on economic issues (socialise health care, etc etc).

US version of traditional conservatism is probably more akin to classical liberalism than anything else (since the country was formed around a classical liberalism model, hence conserving it), modern conservatism, ie neo-conservatism is a lot like, say, British conservatism, tighter social controls, greater economic freedoms than their opposition, and a much more pro-active foreign policy.

classical liberalism amounts to less government control of everything, both social and economic issues.

Classic liberalism is akin to anarchism.

modern liberalism while agreeing with a lot of civil freedoms (there are some distinct opposition though, guns for example), amounts to "the quest for bigger government" on economic issues (socialise health care, etc etc).

Depends on the country. Social healthcare really is an ingredient of socialism IMO. From my Dutch viewpoint, that is. Because socialists here [the labour party] implemented that system in `la Grande'.

The funny thing is, it appears that 'being pro less-regulations for corporations whereas increasing government power on some aspects' is 'liberal' in Europe whereas 'liberal' in the US appears to include 'socialist aspects'.

The original meaning is neither! The original meaning is censored.

classical liberalism amounts to less government control of everything, both social and economic issues.

modern liberalism while agreeing with a lot of civil freedoms (there are some distinct opposition though, guns for example), amounts to "the quest for bigger government" on economic issues (socialise health care, etc etc).

US version of traditional conservatism is probably more akin to classical liberalism than anything else (since the country was formed around a classical liberalism model, hence conserving it), modern conservatism, ie neo-conservatism is a lot like, say, British conservatism, tighter social controls, greater economic freedoms than their opposition, and a much more pro-active foreign policy.

Aah. Thanks for the clarification. What you are calling modern liberalism I believe would be referred to as social-democracy in Europe. The subtlety of the distinction reminds of that other distinction of American politics that is missing from the British - majority vs plurality.

Wasn't it Winston Churchill who described the British and the Americans as two peoples divided by a common language?

It would seem I am somewhere between libertarian and liberal. What would that make me?

Because the american left is to the right of the the European right.


I think you are forgetting the diversity of Europe. I used to live in a leftist country (Danmark), but you can hardly say that all of Europe leans to the left

Maybe...Because Europeans are socialists? No, that can't be right, Americans are fat and stupid and thus never come to the correct conclusion, not even out of chance. :rolleyes: