NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm curious about who's fault it is about the flu vaccination shortage and what the cause is? Anyone know? I think it's horrible that one of the most developed nations in the world cant even get enough flu vaccinations for it's citizens. Horrible. Is it true that it's the Bush admin's fault?

I think its the company who make the vaccines fault.

Some people call them doctors.

I doubt there is just one company.

I doubt there is just one company.

you are correct, in the US there are 5 companies that make vaccines. Out of these maybe 1 maybe 2 make flu vaccines.

It isnt a profitable business to be in. Adding to that there are always lawsuits and high regulatory requirements, it just doesnt make much fiscal sense to make flu vaccine in the USA

The NBC Nightly News tonight reported that a British company that was making the vaccine for Chirol - an American company - turned out to produce an entire batch of tainted flu vaccine that has to be disposed, because it's unsafe. Apparently, this was close to half the amount of flu vaccines the US outsourced for this year.

You would think that something as basic as a flu vaccine shouldnt cause such a problem in the US. Just add that to the list of things we expect to get.

Bill Clinton

The NBC Nightly News tonight reported that a British company that was making the vaccine for Chirol - an American company - turned out to produce an entire batch of tainted flu vaccine that has to be disposed, because it's unsafe. Apparently, this was close to half the amount of flu vaccines the US outsourced for this year.
This is new info here? I read (on BBC news, I'm pretty sure) that when I first heard about the shortage a week or so ago. I'm still trying to figure out just how Bush could be blamed for it.

nobody is "at fault" this is a huge problem with American society, the need to always find blame in everything. A mistake happened in the manufacturing of the flu shots, probably due to some nameless tech having a bad day and screwed up.

and healthy people should not be getting flu shots anyway. There is no need, if you get sick get rest and drink plenty of fluids, you will be fine ina couple of days, just like the human race has always done.

it is things like the mass run to get flu shots by healthy people that drive up health care costs

This is new info here? I read (on BBC news, I'm pretty sure) that when I first heard about the shortage a week or so ago. I'm still trying to figure out just how Bush could be blamed for it.

I heard it on BBC also at least a week ago. It's not new news in America, but it is hitting people finally.

And it's not really anyone's fault except maybe the government's that it doesn't fund more vaccines. As Isanyonehome said, vaccines don't make these companies money, so very few companies produce flu vaccinations.

The British Chiron company had an issue with some of their vaccines so the Brits took away their license and we lost all those vaccines.

You would think that something as basic as a flu vaccine shouldnt cause such a problem in the US. Just add that to the list of things we expect to get.

It is a potentially huge problem. If the strain of the year is a bad strain, it could cause a huge epidemic, possibly pandemic problem. Being that there is no cure for the flu (the real flu, not the one that everyone their dog falsely self-diagnosises themselves with) it can spread almost unblocked until the flu finally dies out. The flu season of 1918? didn't happen because of the era, it was the strain.

I think it was a collective mistake. Distributors not trying to diversify their sources. Manufacturers not volunteering to be the third source. The Dept of Health and Human Services not trying a subsidy scheme to get a third or fourth source. The DHHS not telling us about the shortage until after it was brought up during the third presidential debate (they didn't wait as long to tell us that drug users support terrorism)

It is a potentially huge problem. If the strain of the year is a bad strain, it could cause a huge epidemic, possibly pandemic problem. Being that there is no cure for the flu (the real flu, not the one that everyone their dog falsely self-diagnosises themselves with) it can spread almost unblocked until the flu finally dies out. The flu season of 1918? didn't happen because of the era, it was the strain.
That's something I've always been confused about. I get "the flu" almost every year, but only one time did I actually get the real flu (felt like I was gonna die for about 2 months). So what's the "other" flu? Just a bad cold that takes forever to go away because your immune system is weaked by the weather?

I blame the chickens.

it was actually my fault... im sorry

I blame the chickens.


good point, in this case they had to come before the tainted eggs, at least that's where i assume the bacterial problems arose, though actually, come to think of it, it was probably later in the process if the whole batch was bad.

That's something I've always been confused about. I get "the flu" almost every year, but only one time did I actually get the real flu (felt like I was gonna die for about 2 months). So what's the "other" flu? Just a bad cold that takes forever to go away because your immune system is weaked by the weather?

Flu viruses mutate every few years, largely because the previous strains are effectively blocked by new vaccines. The viruses which survivie then multiply to fill the void left by those which were blocked. When this happens, a new vaccine must be developed to combat the mutated virus, thus the different "strains" of viruses and the vaccines to combat them.

Those most affected by flu viruses are those with weakened immune systems, such as the elderly, the very young, and those with other illnesses. As I understand it, the US currently has or soon will have sufficient supplies available for most if not all of those in this category.

Where the problem comes in is having sufficient quantites of the vaccine for the bulk of those not in the high-risk population. This was caused by one company having a contamination in their portion of the vaccine stocks.

I could be wrong about some of this, but I think that's the general scenario.

good point, in this case they had to come before the tainted eggs, at least that's where i assume the bacterial problems arose, though actually, come to think of it, it was probably later in the process if the whole batch was bad.

True enough. But since Flu leaps from chickens(and a couple other types of livestock) to humans, it's still the chickens' fault.

Flu viruses mutate every few years, largely because the previous strains are effectively blocked by new vaccines. The viruses which survivie then multiply to fill the void left by those which were blocked. When this happens, a new vaccine must be developed to combat the mutated virus, thus the different "strains" of viruses and the vaccines to combat them.

Those most affected by flu viruses are those with weakened immune systems, such as the elderly, the very young, and those with other illnesses. As I understand it, the US currently has or soon will have sufficient supplies available for most if not all of those in this category.

Where the problem comes in is having sufficient quantites of the vaccine for the bulk of those not in the high-risk population. This was caused by one company having a contamination in their portion of the vaccine stocks.

I could be wrong about some of this, but I think that's the general scenario.

the vaccine has to be formulated differently each year and takes months to produce. no more current vaccine can be produced before flu season is virtually over.

True enough. But since Flu leaps from chickens(and a couple other types of livestock) to humans, it's still the chickens' fault.

oh i thought you were just talking about the fact that the vaccine is grown in chicken eggs.

i'll blame the swine then, the fascist pigs

The Pres said that the shortage is caused due to the fact that most of the vaccines are made by company in London and that the US had refuse to accept the shipment on account of them being contaminated.
The administration is looking to other nations to replace this one source.
One of the nation's that Bush is directly negotiating with as a replacement source for the vaccine is Canada, another one being Germany. But Canada is where the administration is focusing most of its energy regarding this issue.

oh i thought you were talking about the fact that the vaccine is grown in chicken eggs.

No. That's just irony. :)

the vaccine has to be formulated differently each year and takes months to produce. no more current vaccine can be produced before flu season is virtually over.

Good point.

The Pres said that the shortage is caused due to the fact that most of the vaccines are made by company in London and that the US had refuse to accept the shipment on account of them being contaminated.
The administration is looking to other nations to replace this one source.
One of the nation's that Bush is directly negotiating with as a replacement source for the vaccine is Canada, another one being Germany. But Canada is where the administration is focusing most of its energy regarding this issue.
yeah but canada can't possibly spare more than a million or so doses, it'll help, but there will be a serious shortage this year. there just isn't enough excess vaccine out there to make up the loss.

yeah but canada can't possibly spare more than a million or so doses, it'll help, but there will be a serious shortage this year. there just isn't enough excess vaccine out there to make up the loss.
That's why I agree with Bush that you shouldn't get the vaccine if you are in perfectly good health. The vaccine is intended for those who have weak immune systems.

That's why I agree with Bush that you shouldn't get the vaccine if you are in perfectly good health. The vaccine is intended for those who have weak immune systems.
i try to agree with bush as little as possible but in this case he is actually right...

The Pres said that the shortage is caused due to the fact that most of the vaccines are made by company in London and that the US had refuse to accept the shipment on account of them being contaminated.
The administration is looking to other nations to replace this one source.
One of the nation's that Bush is directly negotiating with as a replacement source for the vaccine is Canada, another one being Germany. But Canada is where the administration is focusing most of its energy regarding this issue.

Canada!!! I thought we couldn't trust their cheap drugs? (doublethink)

Canada!!! I thought we couldn't trust their cheap drugs? (doublethink)
Well, you'll find that the feds often contradict themselves. This phenomena isn't confined to the Bush admin. but was common in the Clinton and previous administrations and was and does happen in Congress too.

I'm curious about who's fault it is about the flu vaccination shortage and what the cause is? Anyone know? I think it's horrible that one of the most developed nations in the world cant even get enough flu vaccinations for it's citizens. Horrible. Is it true that it's the Bush admin's fault?


It's mine ... I'm sorry ... I'll get those vaccines out right away.

I'm curious about who's fault it is about the flu vaccination shortage and what the cause is? Anyone know? I think it's horrible that one of the most developed nations in the world cant even get enough flu vaccinations for it's citizens. Horrible. Is it true that it's the Bush admin's fault?

They shouldn't ration it. The free enterprise system solves this well, supplies go down so the price goes up and demand goes down.

They shouldn't ration it. The free enterprise system solves this well, supplies go down so the price goes up and demand goes down.
are you kidding? this is the worst scenario for free enterprise. those who need it, the young, the old, the chronically ill are the least able to afford the price increases. the wealthy will get protection they don't really need and the poor will suffer.

blame Canada

That's something I've always been confused about. I get "the flu" almost every year, but only one time did I actually get the real flu (felt like I was gonna die for about 2 months). So what's the "other" flu? Just a bad cold that takes forever to go away because your immune system is weaked by the weather?
Yup. There's a test doctors advise for flu. You drop a twenty pound note on the floor and go out to the car. If the patient's got out of bed and picked it up they ain't got influenza.
The trouble witih vaccines is that it's very hit and miss whether you get the right strain because of the long lead times in the production cycle. Nearly a year in advance the makers have to guess which strain will be doing the rounds next and produce a vaccine - and then hope.

The Pres said that the shortage is caused due to the fact that most of the vaccines are made by company in London and that the US had refuse to accept the shipment on account of them being contaminated.
Not quite. It's Liverpool not London and the shipments were suspended by British officials as a result of local testing.

How good is the testing regime for the US made vaccines? Knowing how dodgy big business can be, you hope the US supply is not contaminated as well.

The NBC Nightly News tonight reported that a British company that was making the vaccine for Chirol - an American company - turned out to produce an entire batch of tainted flu vaccine that has to be disposed, because it's unsafe. Apparently, this was close to half the amount of flu vaccines the US outsourced for this year.
Uhoh . . . I think that explains a good deal of it

So who's going to Canada for holiday and flu vaccine?

So who's going to Canada for holiday and flu vaccine?
Holideh? Yes.

Flu Vaccehine? No.

It takes 4 months to prepare flu vaccine. The contaminated batch is infected with the stuff that makes a pink ring in your shower. It was originally thought to be harmless, but testing in the 50's proved that it causes respiratory problems, especially pneumonia. This batch could cause more harm than good. The US has a limited supply source for 2 main reasons. First, the demand for flu vaccine fluctuates greatly from year to year depending on the flu panic level, mostly created by media reports. As it is such a lengthy process to make the vaccine and the profit margin is minimal so as to make it available to the masses, very few companies devote their resources to its manufacture, preferring to produce higher profit products. Secondly, some trial lawyers (like John Edwards) have made a career of suing vaccine manufacturers. Although almost all of these claimants merely had a reaction to eggs, the cost to defend against these claims is prohibitive and makes it more economical to make a quick, cheap pay-off.

To say that only the very young, the elderly, and those with suppressed immunity need the vaccine is short-sighted. The majority of those left unprotected are the working masses. If we have an especially virulent strain(s) of flu this year, the lost man-hours will be a severe blow to the economy.

As for the Canadian issue. Although a large portion of Canada's drugs are manufactured in the US, not all are. Canada's regulations governing drugs are not as stringent as the US's. Does Canada really want the US trial lawyers after them for selling drugs that are later proved to be unsafe?

Interesting point of fact: 70% of the world's lawyers are in the US. Elect John Edwards and get another leech out of the courts.

are you kidding? this is the worst scenario for free enterprise. those who need it, the young, the old, the chronically ill are the least able to afford the price increases. the wealthy will get protection they don't really need and the poor will suffer.Price, money, flu vaccine, all in one sentence?

I have yet to pay for a flu shot. I usually get one every year.

How much do they cost?

How do you pay for it?

Isn't this a gov't subsidy?
Isn't that why it's outsourced, to the lowest bidder?

The contaminated batch is infected with the stuff that makes a pink ring in your shower. The Cat in the HAT?

To learn more about the contaminant:

http://www.lufkindailynews.com/health/content/shared-gen/ap/Health_Medical/Flu_Vaccine_Bug.html;COXnetJSessionID=By6r1o8JeoWK2L5gFwCbLCUJSM1hdi3qfLY0XPF6E4XO6mMMZJ3F!-345751861?urac=n&urvf=10980214834720.3077448944041504

We still have the nasal mist flu preventative. It's not recommended for people under 5 or over 50 so that just leaves the 3-5 and 51-64 year olds at risk. Keeping a window cracked for ventilation and thoroughly (a quick sprinkle of tap water does nothing to destroy germs) washing your hands often will help control the spread of the flu virus. Soap is good! :D