NationStates Jolt Archive

Having read some of the replys from the thread "Gay marriages" I was thinking that another intereseting question could be raised: Is it okay for gay couples to have kids? Through, say, adoption or donated sperm etc. I'm not just thinking about the rights of the gay couple but also the perspective of their kid(s). Wouldn't it cause the child a serious amount of confusion and embaressement?
Perhaps, unless the couple are realy exelent parents, result in an unstable individual? Or could the kid benefit in some ways, eg. become less judging and more open minded to world in general?

I see nothing wrong with it

I don't know that there likely to be a difference. There might be, but I don't think so.

This is an extremely tough issue, but it really depends on the individuals. Personally, I believe that two happily married gay parents with a child is better than abusive heterosexual parents with a child. I also believe that every child should have a father and a mother...and if homosexuals accept both those roles then fine. Once again, it really depends on the people and in the end before homosexual or heterosexual couples consider adopting/having a kid they should consider if their lifestyle would be a healthy place for a kid to grow up.

I don't think so.

There are certain roles a mother and father have in raising a child, and working together, the child becomes what a child should be.

When you have two mothers or two fathers, it just throws everything out of whack.

I don't think it's the best way to raise a kid, but it's better than single parent households I'd reckon.

I mentioned in another thread, that having more than like 5 kids is also bad for the children, because each one can't get the attention they need.

As well, more than enough of us grew up with divorced parents (though my parents are married, about half of my friends' are not) to know that is very hard on the kids as well.

Point being, very few houses have the "optimal" child raising scenario. (I think optimal is one dad, one mom, one son, and one daughter). Same thing, having two sons or two daughters leads to competition for attention. Having three kids, the middle one feels left out. All these households are not "optimal".

But I sure as hell am not gonna preach to gay parented households that they cannot adopt or have kids through surrogates.

As far as confusion or embarassment, I'm sure plenty of us grew up in multiracial households, and were subjected to plenty of that at school (I know I was).

And who knows, maybe growing up in a gay household will make the kids a little more tolerant then they would be otherwise, it doesn't really matter. As soon as we begin judging other people's parenting and families, we need look only as far as our own to find flaws.

It isn't a tough question for the children. I can recall Rosie O'Donnel's child making the innocent statement that he wants to have a "daddy". I believe that adoption should be regulated to married couples only, and I would hope an adoption agency would rather see a child with a mother and father, so they have the oppurtunity to grow up with some sense of normalcy.

I don't think so.

There are certain roles a mother and father have in raising a child, and working together, the child becomes what a child should be.

When you have two mothers or two fathers, it just throws everything out of whack.

Dude, divorced parents throws everything "out of whack".

It isn't a tough question for the children. I can recall Rosie O'Donnel's child making the innocent statement that he wants to have a "daddy". I believe that adoption should be regulated to married couples only, and I would hope an adoption agency would rather see a child with a mother and father, so they have the oppurtunity to grow up with some sense of normalcy.

I can recall my best friend saying he wished he had a dad. His parents divorced before he was even born.

Anways, at least you are consistent. You would deny adoption to single parents. Okey. I can't call you hypocritical.

I don't think so.

There are certain roles a mother and father have in raising a child, and working together, the child becomes what a child should be.

When you have two mothers or two fathers, it just throws everything out of whack.
Of all the things that'll fuck kids up, having two daddies is hardly the biggest or the worst.

I don't think so.

There are certain roles a mother and father have in raising a child, and working together, the child becomes what a child should be.

When you have two mothers or two fathers, it just throws everything out of whack.
I'm curious. What roles are those? I assume you don't mean, "Mom stays at home and does the woman's work..", so what than?

I'm curious. What roles are those? I assume you don't mean, "Mom stays at home and does the woman's work..", so what than?

You know, that always threw me off. The same people who talk about how gender roles are natural, then go on to say "all children need a mother and a father." WHY?! The dad's never home, so I don't see how that affects anything.

I'm curious. What roles are those? I assume you don't mean, "Mom stays at home and does the woman's work..", so what than?

It concerns role models - children need a male rolemodel just as much as a female role model. Parents are teaching their child about men, women, and relationships. Most kids growing up in single parent homes never learn how to interact correctly with the opposite sex. I see the same thing happening with same sex partners.

I don't think so.

There are certain roles a mother and father have in raising a child, and working together, the child becomes what a child should be.

When you have two mothers or two fathers, it just throws everything out of whack.
i feel the need to flame you and beat you with my stick of nearly useless facts, but i would break it over your dense skull

It concerns role models - children need a male rolemodel just as much as a female role model. Parents are teaching their child about men, women, and relationships. Most kids growing up in single parent homes never learn how to interact correctly with the opposite sex. I see the same thing happening with same sex partners.
That's an interesting take on it. I didn't know that about single parent households, although I did grow up in one. See, I just figured no-one knew how to interact with the opposite sex... but this could explain a lot.
Now I hate my father all of a sudden.. :mad:

haha what is normalcy anyways? good luck defining the normal family

It concerns role models - children need a male rolemodel just as much as a female role model. Parents are teaching their child about men, women, and relationships. Most kids growing up in single parent homes never learn how to interact correctly with the opposite sex. I see the same thing happening with same sex partners.

So would you ban single parented or gay parented households, or just oppose it in theory, but still allow it. I certainly don't think either is optimal, but I wouldn't think to tell them how to raise their family.

Oh, and my parents didn't teach me shit about relationships. I learned all that in school.

So would you ban single parented or gay parented households, or just oppose it in theory, but still allow it. I certainly don't think either is optimal, but I wouldn't think to tell them how to raise their family.

heh most single parent households aren't like that deliberately (sometimes the person didn't intend to get pregnant, sometimes the couple just couldn't stay together), and irresponsible would probably be a correct term for people who deliberately conceive to have children in a single parent situation.

Single people shouldn't be allowed to adopt or use IVF either, shrug. (I don't think they can legally adopt in 99% of places).

You however can't prevent people getting pregnant (although I imagine a lot of us made it that way in our NS :P)

I would want a total banning of adoptions to single parent households, gay parents, and rich actors.

Looking at this thread I am wondering how the anti-gay parent group would react to a lezbian having sex with a man for the sole purpose of getting pregnant and having and raising a child.

The comments about how the child would have a rougher time growing up just seem weak. I was ridiculed and outcasted for being poor. I knew kids that recieved equally adusive treatment for being fat (and yes they had fat parents). The thought that you should prevent people from raising a child because of bigotry just seems to support the discrimination and incourages it to grow through a society.

Looking at this thread I am wondering how the anti-gay parent group would react to a lezbian having sex with a man for the sole purpose of getting pregnant and having and raising a child.

The comments about how the child would have a rougher time growing up just seem weak. I was ridiculed and outcasted for being poor. I knew kids that recieved equally adusive treatment for being fat (and yes they had fat parents). The thought that you should prevent people from raising a child because of bigotry just seems to support the discrimination and incourages it to grow through a society.

LOL, I actually know a lesbian who did that.

I would want a total banning of adoptions to single parent households, gay parents, and rich actors.

Who else would be ban adoptions from? How about people over the age of...40. I certainly don't think it's optimal to grow up in a household with parents edging into their 60s.

We should also ban adoptions from mixraced couples, because such children suffer an undue amount and school, and grow up confused and feeling without a place in society.

We should also ban adoption from poor people, because they won't spend enough money to give the kid the toys he needs.

And we should ban adoptions from ignorant moralizing pricks like you, so children aren't forced to grow up hearing this kind of bullshit.

i know you guys are young but GEEZ
gay people have children NOW
you cant stop people from having children

many many lesbians have children either from regular old sex with a man or by artificial insemination

many many gay men have children either from regular old sex with a woman or by a surrogate

so perhaps the question STILL is "should gay couples be allowed to adopt?"

in a world where so very many children have NO familes and no prospects for a nice prosperous heterosexual married couple to take them in, NO ONE should be barred from adopting because of some arbitrary notion of perfection. everyone should have to be screened of course but is it really better to leave children in an institution when there is a loving couple wanting to adopt them?

I want to have kids someday, but most people would deny me the right because I'm homosexual; it's a shame, too, I think I'd make a good mom.

everyone should have to be screened of course but is it really better to leave children in an institution when there is a loving couple wanting to adopt them

heh, do you think there are families in western nations paying hundreds of thousands for babies or adopting from overseas because there's overburdened institutions?

There really aren't enough children for couples now for adoption (abortion has taken care of that problem for us), the waiting lists can be 5 years+ in arrears with current laws, foster parenting is a different story though as they get all the fun children.

Who else would be ban adoptions from? How about people over the age of...40. I certainly don't think it's optimal to grow up in a household with parents edging into their 60s.

We should also ban adoptions from mixraced couples, because such children suffer an undue amount and school, and grow up confused and feeling without a place in society.

We should also ban adoption from poor people, because they won't spend enough money to give the kid the toys he needs.

And we should ban adoptions from ignorant moralizing pricks like you, so children aren't forced to grow up hearing this kind of bullshit.
Elderly people raising children - Ask someone who was raised by their grandparents about that. The rest of what you said is just to stupid to comment on.

Elderly people raising children - Ask someone who was raised by their grandparents about that. The rest of what you said is just to stupid to comment on.

I'm just taking what you believe in to its natural conclusion.

If you will ban adoptions to people because you do not think their household is "optimal", then you can ban adoptions to any number of people for percieved flaws.

It concerns role models - children need a male rolemodel just as much as a female role model. Parents are teaching their child about men, women, and relationships. Most kids growing up in single parent homes never learn how to interact correctly with the opposite sex. I see the same thing happening with same sex partners.

I agree that not having one or the other of either gender available to serve as a role model could cause some problems, but I think too often people assume in the gay marriage discussions that the ONLY place role models can come from are from the 'official' parents of the children. People forget that it takes a "community" to raise a child, not just 1 or 2 parents, whatever their gender may be. The kids will still have grandparents, aunts and uncles, family friends, school teachers and plenty of other people to get their role model from. My little brother (who lives with my hapily married father and step-mother in this case) spends literally half of his time at his friends house, I am sure they contribute a significant amount to his understanding of "male female role model" understanding.

Well this is an interesting topic.

My dad died when I was 3 so I grew up without a father figure for the most of my growing life. With no father figure, how did I become a man?? Well guess what, unless you are stuck out in the middle of nowhere, there are plenty of male role models to successfully grow up without being a fruit cake. Even then, the human biological system is usually pretty self supporting. I had an older brother and he had no one, but we both managed to become more of a man than some kids from school that had both patents. What’s the deal there you say. Everyone is different, the slight differences in our bringing up can change the way we view the world, but our own individualism often overrides gender influences (as seen with gay kids from straight parents). visa versa kids with gay parents will not necessarily be gay, it doesn't work like that.

I do not see a problem with gay couples with kids; gay couples are more often happier and more comfortable than the average straight couples. My last job I worked at had many gay couple coming into the store, I tell you, they were much more pleasant to talk to than the rest. Husbands and wives would come in and be cranky. Often rude. and inconsiderate. So even though some of the points raised in previous posts are quite valid, the average gay couple would be great parents.

'Single parents' is a difficult one, there are definitely many single people out there that should not be having kids. But then there are many that would be able to cope and bring up fantastic kids.

There are just too many idiots, lunatics, and people who just have know idea. These are the people who need to be stopped from raising our future.

sorry for babbeling
-Phil

Well this is an interesting topic.

My dad died when I was 3 so I grew up without a father figure for the most of my growing life. With no father figure, how did I become a man?? Well guess what, unless you are stuck out in the middle of nowhere there are plenty of male role models to successfully grow up without being a fruit cake. Even then, the human biological system is usually pretty self supporting. I had an older brother and he had nothing, but we both managed to become more of a man than some kids from school that had both patents. What’s the deal there you say. Everyone is different, the slight differences un out up bringing can change the way we view the world, but our own individualism often overrides gender influences (as seen with gay kids from straight parents). visa versa kids with gay parents will not necessarily be gay, it doesn't work like that.

I do not see a problem with gay couples with kids; gay couples are more often happier and more comfortable than the average straight couple. My last job I worked at had many gay couple coming into the store, I tell you, they were much more pleasant to talk to than the rest. Husbands and wives would come in and be cranky. Often rude. and inconsiderate. So even though some of the points raised in previous posts are quite valid, the average gay couple would be great parents.

Single parents is a difficult one, there are definitely many single people out there that should now have kids. But then there are many that would be able to cope and bring up fantastic kids.

There are just too many idiots, lunatics, and people who just have know idea. These are the people who need to be stopped from raising our future.

sorry for babbeling
-Phil

It is sad that there are kids out there who have to find role models off the street instead of their own homes, but my hope in adoptions is to give these kids to heterosexual parents so they don't have to learn values from somewhere else. Homosexual couples raising kids offer less than a heterosexual couple in this belief.

lol, the kid's life would be ruined.
"My mommy, David."
or,
"My daddy, samantha

I just want to add that lesbians shouldn't have kids with their partners. They should each (and every last lipstick lesbo out there) have to spend the night with yours truely. I'd change them around quick. Cause I got the goods (http://home.att.ne.jp/theta/chip-n-dale/travel/2001_09/img/0914/pictp0040.jpg) right here. If that doesn't make them switch teams, then they are clinically insane.

I think its people like you that make them lesbians.

It concerns role models - children need a male rolemodel just as much as a female role model. Parents are teaching their child about men, women, and relationships. Most kids growing up in single parent homes never learn how to interact correctly with the opposite sex. I see the same thing happening with same sex partners.

That's really untrue. Me, and all my other friends that live with their SINGLE MOTHERS are fine with the opposite sex. In fact, we have a harder time relating to WOMEN more than men.

It really amazes me how close minded most of these people are. I bet half the people saying these things about single parent and gay parent households live in a 'wholesome' suburb with their mommy, daddy, and brother/sister with their dog and picket fence.

Just because not everyone is in the same family situation as you doesn't mean we grow up to be emotionally disturbed, messed up, unable to relate to other people, or other things like that.

If your parents are raising you to be this close-minded, it makes me wonder why heterosexual parents without tolerance or acceptance are allowed to raise families when gay parents could be doing a much better job of that.

Jerks.

It concerns role models - children need a male rolemodel just as much as a female role model.
Children need many role models, they dont all have to be having sex with the child's parents though.

Parents are teaching their child about men, women, and relationships.
So are teachers, friends of the family, other kids, tv and media, pets, books, the list goes on....

I would want a total banning of adoptions to single parent households, gay parents, and rich actors.

I want a banning of adoptions to close-minded people like you. So you can't make more intollerant little snot faces and propel hatred and intolerance in the world.

I want a banning of adoptions to close-minded people like you. So you can't make more intollerant little snot faces and propel hatred and intolerance in the world.

"Here, intolerance will not be tolerated." - Death camp of tolerance guy

You funny people and all of your tolerance talk. Grow a spine.

[QUOTE=Ashmoria]i know you guys are young but GEEZ
gay people have children NOW
you cant stop people from having children
QUOTE]

AMEN!

I mean really, haven't any of you seen the Jerry Springer's show. Oooh la la, ya’ll crazy. Given the scope of issues here, can anyone credibly wag a finger at homosexuals and say who should or shouldn’t have/adopt children based solely on their sexuality. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... but really it's too late for that maxim because heterosexuals long ago bashed down the glass house, knocked it into the street, ran over it, ground it into to sand and pulverized it into dust, which was washed away by Charlie, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne... a propos since Florida has the most discriminatory adoption laws in the land.

As Ashmoria pointed, with or without the authority of government, homosexuals have never waited for the consent of the “people.” We moved on, we came out of hiding; we built very tasteful businesses and homes and participate in society at every level. We are the soccer moms and moms and the kids down the street play in our yards and yes, children may look at the two dads barbequing and wonder where the mom. Kids are adaptable and flexible and ultimately totally accepting, its their parents who need to keep up.

And they will. We aren’t going anywhere. In the meanwhile, good fences make good neighbors.

Wahoo!
ScoMo the Homo

I think it's high time some people close their minds

"Here, intolerance will not be tolerated." - Death camp of tolerance guy

You funny people and all of your tolerance talk. Grow a spine.

I don't really care if these people don't like me or the way I live or grew up, as long as they're not talking about imposing their beliefs upon me. I'm not forcing them to be gay, so why are they talking about forcing me to not let me live my life like 'normal' people are allowed to? That's just rediculous.

Lemmiwinks (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/614/614_image_02.jpg)

re-education (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/614/614_image_01.jpg)

Tolerance? (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/614/614_image_12.jpg)

Faster...Faster (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/614/614_image_14.jpg)

Hurry brave lemmiwinks (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/614/614_image_17.jpg)

Schindlers shit (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/614/614_image_24.jpg)

I think it's high time some people close their minds

I think it's high time you keep your mind closed, but shut your mouth as well. Hate me and my way of life? Good for you, loser, keep it to yourself.

It is sad that there are kids out there who have to find role models off the street instead of their own homes, but my hope in adoptions is to give these kids to heterosexual parents so they don't have to learn values from somewhere else. Homosexual couples raising kids offer less than a heterosexual couple in this belief.

You only say that because you're so insecure with yourself and who you are as a person, you have to attack homosexual couples with children because you feel inadequate about your own potential parenting skills.

The back and forth flame wars are getting pretty dull.

Fire vs. Fire just burns everyone. Nothing is gained.

In any case, I know a number of people who grew up with multiple mothers or dads. They are all perfectly well-adjusted intelligent, socially responsible individuals. A large number of my friends aren't straight; they are no different than anyone else. It's not a perversion. It's simply different.

Granted most inter-human disputes involve differences. Most people find mutual dislikes in differences. Embracing diversity is only marginally socially acceptable on a large scale.