NationStates Jolt Archive

Just today I saw on CNN headline news: Sen. Kerry has blamed President Bush for the flu vaccination shortage.

Where is the proof?
By what means?

Additional liberal fuel for the election!

"How Low Will Kerry Go???"

Answer: as low as it takes to get to the Presidency. :(

well he is still trying the draft thingy, and now is blaming bush for the flu thing

I guess he is in panic mode after the Mary Cheney thing backfired

Just today I saw on CNN headline news: Sen. Kerry has blamed President Bush for the flu vaccination shortage.

Where is the proof?
By what means?

Additional liberal fuel for the election!


http://www.johnkerry.com/video/console.php?video=101604_flu#101604_flu

yes it is an add but it shows John Kerrys proof and solves your questions

if you find something wrong with his info, tell me

(JFK FOR PREZZ)

http://www.johnkerry.com/video/console.php?video=101604_flu#101604_flu

yes it is an add but it shows John Kerrys proof and solves your questions

if you find something wrong with his info, tell me

Just like I said ... he'll stoop to any depth to sleaze his way to the Presidency. If the consequences of electing this amoral opportunist asshole to the Presidency weren't so dire, I'd love to see him get it just to seal the doom of liberalism in America.

I don't agree with the argument as stated in teh advertisement. GB was warned, he acted to fix the problem. Something unforseen happened, so he is acting to fix the new problem. Basically they are saying that he should be prophetic, and be able to make sure that there are no unforseen problems. Now, I don't like GB, but I do not consider that to be a valid argument against him.

I take that as a strike against Kerry. I disapprove of his using scare tactics just as much as I disapprove of GB using them.

Just like I said ... he'll stoop to any depth to sleaze his way to the Presidency. If the consequences of electing this amoral opportunist asshole to the Presidency weren't so dire, I'd love to see him get it just to seal the doom of liberalism in America.
Ah, Eutrusca. I saw a play last night that had a line in it that reminded me of you:
"Between the facts and what I know, I'll take what I know."
What's great is you'll probably take it as a compliment.

Ah, Eutrusca. I saw a play last night that had a line in it that reminded me of you:
"Between the facts and what I know, I'll take what I know."
What's great is you'll probably take it as a compliment.

"Facts?" On John Kerry's Website? ROFLMAO!!! AS IF!!

Come on, we both know that there is low mud being slung on both sides of this election. You Americans seem only to understand attack politics. I wouldn't blame Bush for the lack of flu vaccine - he doesn't micro-manage this stuff. But remember that politicians will use and exploit any verbal ammo they can get.

Remember those West Virginia Republicans who claimed in their propaganda that Kerry would ban the Bible if elected? :rolleyes:

Ok people, stupid little kid here. Anyway he only said those things to remind people of the outsourcing problem. If we had more businesses which produce the vaccination we wouldn't be in this situation. On another note, Bush said that Kerry's health plan would lead to rationing, but now he has turned to it.
Feel free to ignore this post as once again I am a child and am not directly affected by the elections yet.

I'd love to see him get it just to seal the doom of liberalism in America.
What so you want America to be a one-party state?

Strange. People want medicine from out of the country, Bush has Flu vaccines come from out of country, vaccines get contaiminated(sp?), people get angry at Bush but still want medicine from out of country. Lay off of Bush on that issue, will ya! Think what would have happened to this country had Al Gore been president! The administration he was vice president of did nothing to prevent Al Queda attacks in the '90s and the present.

Let's see now:
John Kerry may or may not have lied as to
1) Whether he was in Cambodia on Christmas Day or a week later
2) Bush being responsible for the flu shortage

Bush's record:
1) lied about weapons of mass destruction
2) screwed up the environment
3) has the worst economic policies of any president in the last half-century
4) has signed into law DoMA and the USA PATRIOT Act, both unconstitutional
5) has consistently upheld the Bible over the Constitution
6) has betrayed everything conservatism stood for, even infuriating Pat Buchanan, a man so right-wing, he gives Republicans a bad name.

I'll take a lying Democrat over Bush any day.

What so you want America to be a one-party state?

You mean it isn't already?!

Oh, and as for bringing Cheney's gay daughter into the debates, so what? She's gay, its a fact. If the Republicans are going to be intolerant homophobes, they need to get used to having their hypocrisy exposed.

Kerry is a low, low liberal worm. In other words, he´s a politician. And to think that someone would be THAT stupid to think their will be "facts" on an overly partisan website. OMG! Hahahah, how sad. Any chance he gets he will blame Bush for something, point his finger, and say "I can do better". Sounds like what a child would do. John Kerry, NOR George Bush will EVER EVER EVER tell the WHOLE truth. The only difference is, is that Bush says what he believes most of the time, which gets him into trouble alot, and Kerry just says what either or both the Democratic party and(or) others want to hear. Its sad really. :(

Hahahaha! You make me laugh, conservative.

That isn't NEARLY as low as half of the slander that has been thrown at Kerry by Bush and Pals. I seem to recall some obviously trumped up slander about not deserving his medals, including 3 Purple Hearts and a Silver Star? And some foolishness from the, as I like to call them, Not-So-Swiftboat Voters (afterall, you can't be too swift to jump to conclusions like those men do without even doing the minimal research necessary to discover the false claims the conservatives have made against Kerry's military record)? Oh, lets not forget Cheney - if the "Liberals" (always said as a curse, lets remember! Lately I've decided to use Conservative in a negative light - personally, I'm tired of not returning fire. Yup, I was one of those pro-Dean folks!) take control of the nation, another terrorist attack WILL occur! Possibly a nuke this time!

You talk about stooping low and you won't even look at the dishonor in the Bush administration, will you? Or are dishonorable scare tactics and the dishonoring of our military and every single serviceman by insulting the validity of our military's awarded medallions when no real evidence exists to justify it somehow more excusable than suggesting that Bush somehow made a mistake which led to a lack of flu shots this year?

If we really want to stoop low, I'd like to list the 100s of Americans now dead, the blood of which is on Bush and his Imperialist agenda in Iraq. Why is it the rest of the world can see the corruption in this administration? I think Americans just hate to admit when they're wrong.

There was a time I actually had respect for the Republican Party. Who decided to put Bush Jr. and his cronies in charge, exactly?

:gundge: Look I'm sorry people but. I really don't care for neither Bush or Kerry. Plus, the only crap I hear from Kerry is "I was in a war. I won three purple hearts. Its bush's fault blah blah blah"

Sorry everybody. Personal opion. -_-

P.S. :headbang: They make me want to kill myself. -_-

:gundge: Look I'm sorry people but. I really don't care for neither Bush or Kerry. Plus, the only crap I hear from Kerry is "I was in a war. I won three purple hearts. Its bush's fault blah blah blah"

Sorry everybody. Personal opion. -_-

P.S. :headbang: They make me want to kill myself. -_-

Most of us don't care for Bush or Kerry.

Leute!!! Meine deutschen und italienischen Bruder!!! Wählen Sie nicht für Kerry!!! Er ist leicht schlägt-flopper idiotic. Er sagt, daß Wörter geändert werden, können Stimmen leicht herum geworfen werden und Markenlügen. Wählen Sie nicht für Kerry. Auch unten mit Moore!

If the consequences of electing this amoral opportunist asshole to the Presidency weren't so dire

I hate to tell you this, but if a person isn't opportunistic, then that person would never run for such a powerful office. Apathetic people tend to stay out of public office.

Amoral? Meh ... not sure where you're getting that, but judging from your other posts, you can only attack and not present facts - which makes you an obvious Republican - so I'm not really interested in your opinion.

Asshole? Something about pot and kettles and black comes to mind ....

To the hippy in the earlier post complaining about the environment. Here's a newsflash, in a given year your lungs produce more carbon dioxide than your car, so go jump off a bridge and save the ozone.

American education works for those students who take the initiative. If you want to be a ignorant gang banger thug that can barely speak or do basic math you are free to do so. Not everyone is going to do well.

In my state the problem is with the state government listening to the elderly citizens and no one else (because no one else votes). It's not bush's fault my states colleges are raising tuition while they are cutting funding (this has been going on since the 90's and maybe before).

Bush did not lie about WMD, it was based on bad intelligence. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the government at the time mostly all wanted to attack along with bush (its a system of checks and balances afterall). Who else voted to go to war? John Kerry

So if Bush lied, Kerry agreed with him. Although he would like you to believe the opposite right now. He voted for it before he voted against it before he voted for it. Assuming he was actually in attendance for any of the senate votes.

I just saw the commercial (from kerry's team) with the woman crying about her son dying in war. I hate to say it, but your son JOINED TO F"ING MILITARY that's what a military does. Does no one understand that joining the military is not the same thing as going to work for Microsoft or Ford ?

You become a government employee that is ordered to fight for your country, you don't get to pick and choose and still be in the military. And no one is forced to join the military.

If you don't want to take the chance of having to go to war, don't join the military.

To the hippy in the earlier post complaining about the environment. Here's a newsflash, in a given year your lungs produce more carbon dioxide than your car, so go jump off a bridge and save the ozone.
Thats swell. But it's not carbon dioxide that's the problem with car exhaust, it's carbon monoxide.

American education works for those students who take the initiative. If you want to be a ignorant gang banger thug that can barely speak or do basic math you are free to do so. Not everyone is going to do well.

In my state the problem is with the state government listening to the elderly citizens and no one else (because no one else votes). It's not bush's fault my states colleges are raising tuition while they are cutting funding (this has been going on since the 90's and maybe before).

Bush did not lie about WMD, it was based on bad intelligence. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the government at the time mostly all wanted to attack along with bush (its a system of checks and balances afterall). Who else voted to go to war? John Kerry

So if Bush lied, Kerry agreed with him. Although he would like you to believe the opposite right now. He voted for it before he voted against it before he voted for it. Assuming he was actually in attendance for any of the senate votes.

I just saw the commercial (from kerry's team) with the woman crying about her son dying in war. I hate to say it, but your son JOINED TO F"ING MILITARY that's what a military does. Does no one understand that joining the military is not the same thing as going to work for Microsoft or Ford ?

You become a government employee that is ordered to fight for your country, you don't get to pick and choose and still be in the military. And no one is forced to join the military.

If you don't want to take the chance of having to go to war, don't join the military.
For the rest of this, some light reading (http://factcheck.org/) so you can catch up to the rest of us. Or find Gymoor's thread that details what Kerry actually said about his vote.

Or you and Eutrusca could form a mutual affermation society. Either way I guess.

False modesty once again. Republican can do anything to win and that's ok. Kerry finally starts fighting back and he's the lowest politician ever. shut the f$^ up you babies.

I just saw the commercial (from kerry's team) with the woman crying about her son dying in war. I hate to say it, but your son JOINED TO F"ING MILITARY that's what a military does.


So ... I'm a decorated combat veteran ... and I'm still alive ... you tellin' me I didn't do my job?

Learn some compassion.

:gundge: Look I'm sorry people but. I really don't care for neither Bush or Kerry. Plus, the only crap I hear from Kerry is "I was in a war. I won three purple hearts. Its bush's fault blah blah blah"
Ah, willful ignorance.

So if Bush lied, Kerry agreed with him. Although he would like you to believe the opposite right now. He voted for it before he voted against it before he voted for it. Assuming he was actually in attendance for any of the senate votes.
Of course Congress agreed with Bush. He only presented them with the intelligence he wanted them to see. He misled Congress, which as far as I know is a federal offence and near treasonous.

You don't have to wonder whether Kerry was there to vote for the war. These things are kept on record. Do facts matter to you at all? I don't think Kerry ever voted against the war.

Leute!!! Meine deutschen und italienischen Bruder!!! Wählen Sie nicht für Kerry!!! Er ist leicht schlägt-flopper idiotic. Er sagt, daß Wörter geändert werden, können Stimmen leicht herum geworfen werden und Markenlügen. Wählen Sie nicht für Kerry. Auch unten mit Moore! Mit Vergnügen!

False modesty once again. Republican can do anything to win and that's ok. Kerry finally starts fighting back and he's the lowest politician ever. shut the f$^ up you babies.Thanks for your wise contribution. Why don't you go read the link that was posted earlier, you might learn something, if you can read that is.

Just today I saw on CNN headline news: Sen. Kerry has blamed President Bush for the flu vaccination shortage.

Where is the proof?
By what means?

Additional liberal fuel for the election!

Considering Bush allows for outsourcing tax breaks and the flu vaccines, the majority made in England by an American company, are the reason why we're short would lead to Bush allowing this to happen... hmm... doesn't seem to liberal now, does it? :rolleyes:

To the hippy in the earlier post complaining about the environment. Here's a newsflash, in a given year your lungs produce more carbon dioxide than your car, so go jump off a bridge and save the ozone.

So true! Co2 is one of the leading cause of the the Theory of Global Warming! However it is not the Main cause. The main Cause is Carbon Monoxide. However, a Volcano throws up more greenhouse gases than anything Manmade in a single eruption. Who is the cause of Global Warming if it exists? My guess and bet will be on Volcanoes.

American education works for those students who take the initiative. If you want to be a ignorant gang banger thug that can barely speak or do basic math you are free to do so. Not everyone is going to do well.

Unfortunately true. I say get the government out of the Educational School System. It might just make our education system better.

In my state the problem is with the state government listening to the elderly citizens and no one else (because no one else votes). It's not bush's fault my states colleges are raising tuition while they are cutting funding (this has been going on since the 90's and maybe before).

Colleges around here are raising tuition too. I'm not blaming bush either nor am I blaming Kerry! I actually blame the State Governor and the State Legislature.

Bush did not lie about WMD, it was based on bad intelligence. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the government at the time mostly all wanted to attack along with bush (its a system of checks and balances afterall). Who else voted to go to war? John Kerry

Again correct but people on here won't see it. Besides, other nations felt he had them too. It was only after we got in there that we found this out and I'm still not sure if he moved them or not. I do applaud the report that did come out too.

So if Bush lied, Kerry agreed with him. Although he would like you to believe the opposite right now. He voted for it before he voted against it before he voted for it. Assuming he was actually in attendance for any of the senate votes.

Excellent statement!

I just saw the commercial (from kerry's team) with the woman crying about her son dying in war. I hate to say it, but your son JOINED TO F"ING MILITARY that's what a military does. Does no one understand that joining the military is not the same thing as going to work for Microsoft or Ford ?

I understand it just fine. I have a cousin in the Army and one in the Navy. A friend in the marines and another relative in the Air Force. They all know that they are government workers and they all volunteered to serve.

You become a government employee that is ordered to fight for your country, you don't get to pick and choose and still be in the military. And no one is forced to join the military.

So true. My mom served in the Air Force for 6 years and got sunburned. She was nearly court martialed for damage to government property but she wasn't because she DID go to work. Good job on the rest of the statement.

If you don't want to take the chance of having to go to war, don't join the military.

Seconded

Thats swell. But it's not carbon dioxide that's the problem with car exhaust, it's carbon monoxide.

And volcanoes throw up more greenhouse gases than anything man made.

So ... I'm a decorated combat veteran ... and I'm still alive ... you tellin' me I didn't do my job?

Ditto. Where, when?

I often think the best thing we can do as far as this board is concerned is just let these leftist extremists stew in their own juices. They don't listen even when the case is open and shut ... as a matter of fact, I'm beginning to wonder if they CAN listen. I've gone to great lengths to explain my positions in a number of threads, complete with sources and other documentation. Their only response is to attack the positions as "stupid," denigrate the sources as "biased," and ignore any facts which don't match their preconcieved notions of what they would prefer the world to be like.

Both parties, Democratic and Republican, are more than willing to get dirty in this fight. They're more than willing to hide facts, twist facts, exhaggerate numbers, etc. Kerry's just as willing as Bush is to keep these lowblows coming.
Both sides go low because thats how politics are. *shrugs* We've seen Bush come out with some pretty powerful attacks, and we've seen Kerry do the same, and it'll go on like this.

Considering Bush allows for outsourcing tax breaks and the flu vaccines, the majority made in England by an American company, are the reason why we're short would lead to Bush allowing this to happen... hmm... doesn't seem to liberal now, does it? :rolleyes:*UN-SPIN*
Yes we outsource to allow global marketing, and to reap from both a financial advantage and a taxable break. Our nation pays the highest price globally for pharmaceuticals. If flu shots are given to the public free of charge, then we SHOULD have the lowest bidder. Remember, it's not what the government can do for me, rather, what can I do for my government!

Can you explain how the unforeseeable contamination has anything to do with The President? He took the info, and acted on it. *If* he would have sat on his backside and not reacted, that would present a whole different issue.

Yes, it looks and smells just like liberal tactic.

Who else voted to go to war? John Kerry

Heh. If by "voted to go to war" you mean "voted to give the president the authority to go to war once WMDs were found (which they weren't, but Bush decided to go in anyway)", then you are correct.

Ditto. Where, when?

US Army Ranger, Operation Desert Shield/Storm.

I often think the best thing we can do as far as this board is concerned is just let these leftist extremists stew in their own juices.

I happen to *be* one of those leftists, you know. I'm far more left than the Kerry camp ... I not only voted for Kucinich in the Primaries, but I went to the Texas Democratic Convention as a Delegate for Kucinich.

Yep ... that's right ... some of us liberal leftist hippies fought for our country. Amazing, I know, but we do exist.

False modesty once again. Republican can do anything to win and that's ok. Kerry finally starts fighting back and he's the lowest politician ever. shut the f$^ up you babies.

speaking of babies, remember what the democrat did last election...

And volcanoes throw up more greenhouse gases than anything man made.
And volcanoes erupt how often, dumbass?

Oh, and as for bringing Cheney's gay daughter into the debates, so what? She's gay, its a fact. If the Republicans are going to be intolerant homophobes, they need to get used to having their hypocrisy exposed.

Right on. I didnt see anything insulting about it and even if it was a "cheep and twadry political trick" so what! That is obviously American politics, esp with this ads which I am sick of from both sides.

The flu thing. Well why do we have two companies worldwide making the one and only flu vaccine! Sounds like money is behind that. If America is so great, maybe we should look into making our own. But hey that would be logical which just wouldnt make sense. Im not necessarily blaming Bush concerning the flu vaccine but why hasnt America decided to get some big drug companies in on the flu vaccine money machine?

I will never understand politics or you politicians.

And volcanoes erupt how often, dumbass?

Look at the facts before calling someone a dumbass! I expected better from you Incertonia.

A volcano throws up more greenhouses gases than anything man-made. It throws up more in a single eruption than anything man-made can throw up in a decade.

Also, Etna is spewing. Volcano in Hawaii is still continuously erupting. Mt. St. Helens is beginning to go too. These are just three volcanoes that are eruption. Also, a volcano in Mexico which has been dorment is coming back to life too. Want me to go one?

Answer: Nowhere near as low as Bush.

Look at the facts before calling someone a dumbass! I expected better from you Incertonia.

A volcano throws up more greenhouses gases than anything man-made. It throws up more in a single eruption than anything man-made can throw up in a decade.

Also, Etna is spewing. Volcano in Hawaii is still continuously erupting. Mt. St. Helens is beginning to go too. These are just three volcanoes that are eruption. Also, a volcano in Mexico which has been dorment is coming back to life too. Want me to go one?
Sorry, but show me facts that prove Volcanos produce more greenhouse gasses then the human civilisation around the world. Quantity over size is what I say.

Everyone, just so you know its not outsourcing that caused this. The facility that produced the vaccines is owned by a company based in California (which means the vaccine production facility was using their standards) and the tainted batches were discovered by that same Liverpool facility.

Just because its a foreign facility doesn't make it a foreign company in this multinational world of ours.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/28/MNG5E8FUPN1.DTL

"Shipment of nearly 50 million doses of flu vaccine will be delayed until at least early October after eight of 60 batches failed sterility tests at the Liverpool, England, factory acquired last year by East Bay biotechnology powerhouse Chiron Corp. "

Just for fun:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/14/flu.vaccine.ap/index.html

http://www.chiron.com/contact/index.html

In defence of Chiron they did discover the contamination themselves and its not like US-based facilities have never produced unsafe products. Recalls aren't exactly rare.

expected better from you Incertonia.
Expect whatever--when you stop spouting bullshit and claiming it's fact, then we'll talk again.

Sorry, but show me facts that prove Volcanos produce more greenhouse gasses then the human civilisation around the world. Quantity over size is what I say.

Oh for God's sake will you guys stop.

We need to breathe so we can't stop the greenhouse gases we produce that way.

We can't stop volcanoes from erupting. Another moot point.

We CAN however build cars that produce less greenhouse gases, not to mention using cars less or using public transit or carpooling.

Everyone, just so you know its not outsourcing that caused this. The facility that produced the vaccines is owned by a company based in California (which means the vaccine production facility was using their standards) and the tainted batches were discovered by that same Liverpool facility.

Just because its a foreign facility doesn't make it a foreign company in this multinational world of ours.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/28/MNG5E8FUPN1.DTL

"Shipment of nearly 50 million doses of flu vaccine will be delayed until at least early October after eight of 60 batches failed sterility tests at the Liverpool, England, factory acquired last year by East Bay biotechnology powerhouse Chiron Corp. "

Just for fun:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/14/flu.vaccine.ap/index.html

http://www.chiron.com/contact/index.html

In defence of Chiron they did discover the contamination themselves and its not like US-based facilities have never produced unsafe products. Recalls aren't exactly rare.


Thanks for the information. I still dont understand :confused: why so few companies produce the flu vaccine esp with the difficulty of making them (they have to come up with their 'best guess' of what the flu virus will look like). But I really appreciate someone putting up information rather than badgering. :)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38563-2004Oct16.html
While I disagree with Kerry heavily, I always thought he was a decent guy. But in regards to what he said about Mary Cheney, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Kerry waged a very low blow, and I have a feeling that he will be hurt by this comment.

Just today I saw on CNN headline news: Sen. Kerry has blamed President Bush for the flu vaccination shortage.

Where is the proof?
By what means?

Additional liberal fuel for the election!

According to a CNN report several days old, the Bush Administration knew of problems at Chiron almost a year ago, and did not get around to sending inspectors until several DAYS ago. If that is not idiocy, I don't know what is.

Sorry, but show me facts that prove Volcanos produce more greenhouse gasses then the human civilisation around the world. Quantity over size is what I say.

Oh god in Heaven! Didn't you have a science Class? Its a known fact that they do.

Thanks for the information. I still dont understand :confused: why so few companies produce the flu vaccine esp with the difficulty of making them (they have to come up with their 'best guess' of what the flu virus will look like). But I really appreciate someone putting up information rather than badgering. :)

Well they usually raise the virus in a mouse/sheep/whatever and filter out antibodies from serum. They check for potency, etc. of the antibody and what strain of virus it is good against. Then they make it so they can use that crap in humans without a major allergic reaction, which is more complex than anything I'd want to post here :D . Of course some people react anyway to vaccines and this is one of the reasons why, immune response to foreign protein. It really depends what kind of vaccine it is. Sometimes weakened/dead virus is used. Its complex, lemme just put it that way.

Its fairly easy to see what the virus looks like with an electron microscope. Its big and spikey. In fact the flu virus is pretty big and can probably be seen with a really good light microscope. The flu virus is also highly mutagenic and there ends up being a new or a few new strains a year so that's why they keep making new vaccine every year.

As for why more companies don't make vaccines, they aren't very profitable. In fact I think the first article I posted says that. Sad. Treating an active disease is better than curing or prevention. You can see the potential for abuse by companies thinking more of profit than of helping people. One of the reasons why the American health system is not only dangerous, but unethical.

Who cares how low he goes?

Bush lying to the American public about WMD and not being impeached for it is more low than anything Kerry ever could have done to the American people today.

Who cares how low he goes?

Bush lying to the American public about WMD and not being impeached for it is more low than anything Kerry ever could have done to the American people today.

Bush did Not lie Tuesday! It was BAD INTELLIGENCE!! Get it straight!! Since it was Bad Intel, he can't be impeached!

Bush did Not lie Tuesday! It was BAD INTELLIGENCE!! Get it straight!! Since it was Bad Intel, he can't be impeached!
He could admit it was a mistake...and yet he won't! He says he never committed one! So he did lie about misleading about the bad intel.

He could admit it was a mistake...and yet he won't! He says he never committed one! So he did lie about misleading about the bad intel.

However, it is not an impeachable offense. That is the crux of the matter! However, he did applaud the report that stated that he didn't have them.

Wait, politicians are acting like politicians. Why are we so shocked?

Looked people, let me make it nice and clear.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS FILLED WITH ASSHOLES
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS FILLED WITH ASSHOLES


They're both going to fight dirty, and they're both gonna be rat bastards in general. Deal.

Bush did Not lie Tuesday! It was BAD INTELLIGENCE!! Get it straight!! Since it was Bad Intel, he can't be impeached!

Incorrect. He was told by the CIA and numerous other intelligence agencies/services worldwide that the intelligence was neither confirmed or complete, therefore, he went out of his way - anyway - to tell the American people that their were in fact WMD in Iraq. That's lying, at the very least, an omission of the truth. Impeachable. Period.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38563-2004Oct16.html
While I disagree with Kerry heavily, I always thought he was a decent guy. But in regards to what he said about Mary Cheney, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Kerry waged a very low blow, and I have a feeling that he will be hurt by this comment.

My opinion is that it is overblown on purpose to redirect focus from anything meaningful said during the debates. The fact its being treated as a personal 'attack' against their family is odd since Cheney mentioned it himself. Neither Kerry or Edwards used harmful language. It was really a blow against Bush/Cheney who probably didn't want the christian camp to know that Cheney had a gay daughter (which would be easy to do in such a large venue) so they are pumping it up to make it look like some sort of attack (which in Cheney's eyes it would look like that since it would be a sore spot for him).

I don't know how dependable the info is here (left leaning), but here's an article, but it has quotes and names the source, if you ignore the opinion parts its decent.

http://www.progressive.org/mpvdmk00.htm

From reading that I couldn't help but see that Mary Cheney is pretty active in the gay community and would likely be very vocal on the subject on gay marriage. She's probably being asked to keep a lid on it by her family and is obliging to keep the peace.

And for the hell of it...

http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/08/03/mary/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897569/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/25/MNGHQ8DV6Q1.DTL

Incorrect. He was told by the CIA and numerous other intelligence agencies/services worldwide that the intelligence was neither confirmed or complete, therefore, he went out of his way - anyway - to tell the American people that their were in fact WMD in Iraq. That's lying, at the very least, an omission of the truth. Impeachable. Period.

However, it was still bad intelligence. It was the exact same intel that lead to Operation Desert Fox in 1998 in case you've forgotten. If that was the case then Clinton should've been impeached for misleading the country. Oh wait, he was impeached on Obstruction of Justice and Purgery but that is beside the point.

The point is, Clinton used the EXACT SAME INTEL that Bush used to go into Iraq, to bomb Saddam. Something Daschel, Kerry, and other people supported.

My opinion is that it is overblown on purpose to redirect focus from anything meaningful said during the debates.
That's because nothing meaningful was said. By the third debate, it is filled with nothing but rehashed slogans, mainly "I will fight for the American people", and personal attacks.

Right on. I didnt see anything insulting about it and even if it was a "cheep and twadry political trick" so what! That is obviously American politics, esp with this ads which I am sick of from both sides.

The flu thing. Well why do we have two companies worldwide making the one and only flu vaccine! Sounds like money is behind that. If America is so great, maybe we should look into making our own. But hey that would be logical which just wouldnt make sense. Im not necessarily blaming Bush concerning the flu vaccine but why hasnt America decided to get some big drug companies in on the flu vaccine money machine?

I will never understand politics or you politicians.

we used to have a lot of companies making vaccines. They either stopped or went out of business. There is little money in it AND fear of lawsuits.

here is a link
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/health/17flu2.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38563-2004Oct16.html
While I disagree with Kerry heavily, I always thought he was a decent guy. But in regards to what he said about Mary Cheney, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Kerry waged a very low blow, and I have a feeling that he will be hurt by this comment.
Oh for God's fucking sake, Purly, there was nothing tawdry or cheap in Kerry's comment. I expect this shit from Corneliu, but you used to be better than this.

Oh for God's fucking sake, Purly, there was nothing tawdry or cheap in Kerry's comment. I expect this shit from Corneliu, but you used to be better than this.
Think what you want about me. I think it was quite a low blow to talk about Mary Cheney. But have you ever considered that Corneliu and I are very alike? I think you should. Why? Because we are. I actually think I'm a bit more extreme than he is.

The point is, Clinton used the EXACT SAME INTEL that Bush used to go into Iraq, to bomb Saddam. Something Daschel, Kerry, and other people supported.

Check your facts, buddy... Clinton never went to war, he knew better that the intell wasn't sound. Just like Daschel, Kerry, and other "democrats," I suspected you were trying to say...

Think what you want about me. I think it was quite a low blow to talk about Mary Cheney.

How? She had been brought up in past debates- in fact, mentioned by Cheney himself even before the debates began. Kerry's comments were not in any sort of disparaging manner to her, so how was this a low blow?

How? She had been brought up in past debates- in fact, mentioned by Cheney himself even before the debates began. Kerry's comments were not in any sort of disparaging manner to her, so how was this a low blow?
Because of the way it was used. I think that shhe was used as political ammo, which is wrong. In all fairness, she did work for her father. But wouldn't family naturally support a candidate? This is supposed to be about the guys running, not anyone else. And it is certainly unfair for this guilt by association to be brought about.
And btw, would Dick Cheney say anything bad about his daughter? I doubt he did more than say she was gay, which she is extremely open about. I'm sure the tables would turn if Alex and Vanessa were openly gay, and Bush said something about them. But don't expect to find me on the side that would be most politically lucrative, but rather, what is morally right.

Because of the way it was used. I think that shhe was used as political ammo, which is wrong....
And btw, would Dick Cheney say anything bad about his daughter? I doubt he did more than say she was gay, which she is extremely open about.
See, thats the thing. Cheney didn't say anything bad, but neither really did Kerry. She's open about her sexuality, and its not like he honed in on her or anything. She was mentioned in passing, not to focus on and attack with. If people weren't obsessing on it by now most of the US would have forgotten he even mentioned her.

How? She had been brought up in past debates- in fact, mentioned by Cheney himself even before the debates began. Kerry's comments were not in any sort of disparaging manner to her, so how was this a low blow?

Cheney mentioned her in a Townhall meeting type setting but only after he was asked a direct question about it. He didnt exactly volunteer the info.

On the other hand, both edwards and Kerry directly brought her up when there was no need to EXCEPT for scoring some political points.

I dont think anything bad was said about her, but I do find it a little distasteful For Kerry and Edwards to have brought up a child of a canditate.

Check your facts, buddy... Clinton never went to war, he knew better that the intell wasn't sound. Just like Daschel, Kerry, and other "democrats," I suspected you were trying to say...

War no. Bombed them due to the same intel, yes

See, thats the thing. Cheney didn't say anything bad, but neither really did Kerry. She's open about her sexuality, and its not like he honed in on her or anything. She was mentioned in passing, not to focus on and attack with. If people weren't obsessing on it by now most of the US would have forgotten he even mentioned her.
But there is a critical difference that overstepped the bounds of morality. The question was whether they believed homosexuality to be a choice or nature. Kerry implied that Mary Cheney's sexuality was nature. I find it morally wrong to discuss that in regards to one specific person. In fact, I also feel that, in addition to Kerry, Bob Scheifer should be reprimanded for asking a question that obviously pushed the moral envelope.

Think what you want about me. I think it was quite a low blow to talk about Mary Cheney. But have you ever considered that Corneliu and I are very alike? I think you should. Why? Because we are. I actually think I'm a bit more extreme than he is.
Why was it such a low blow? Does not Bush favor a Constitutional Amendment that would discriminate against people like Mary Cheney? Isn't Bush's party generally hostile to gays and lesbians? The base certainly is. They're so hostile that the Log Cabin Republicans--the gay GOP group--refused to endorse Bush's candidacy this election.

As to the similarities between you and Corneliu, well, I remember when you were Anthrus, and we got into wonderfully long discussions over policy and enjoyed a solid give and take and the occasional simultaneous compromise. Now you, just like Corneliu, spout party-line rhetoric, no matter how hollow it is intellectually. It's sad to see.

Just today I saw on CNN headline news: Sen. Kerry has blamed President Bush for the flu vaccination shortage.

Where is the proof?
By what means?

Additional liberal fuel for the election!

With the Pleasure Boat Captains for Truth, the Unfit for Command book, and the overall viciousness of the Bush campaign, I don't really think you or your candidate have the right to be calling Kerry "low" or "insensitive. At the risk of sounding chliched, it's like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sick of it.

Let's look at the quote for a second. "If you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as."

How is that offensive? It's not an attack. It's not a condemnation. It's a statement of fact about a person who has been open about her sexuality for many years. It's a recognition that she is living the life she feels most natural living, and the fact is that there's a sizable chunk of the Republican party who feels that she should not be allowed to live that way openly, and that she should be openly discriminated against as well.

Why was it such a low blow? Does not Bush favor a Constitutional Amendment that would discriminate against people like Mary Cheney? Isn't Bush's party generally hostile to gays and lesbians? The base certainly is. They're so hostile that the Log Cabin Republicans--the gay GOP group--refused to endorse Bush's candidacy this election.

As to the similarities between you and Corneliu, well, I remember when you were Anthrus, and we got into wonderfully long discussions over policy and enjoyed a solid give and take and the occasional simultaneous compromise. Now you, just like Corneliu, spout party-line rhetoric, no matter how hollow it is intellectually. It's sad to see.
Well I like this new me. I never realized how liberal I was when I was Anthrus.

Well I like this new me. I never realized how liberal I was when I was Anthrus.

You were Anthrus 'eh??

Ok people, stupid little kid here. Anyway he only said those things to remind people of the outsourcing problem. If we had more businesses which produce the vaccination we wouldn't be in this situation. On another note, Bush said that Kerry's health plan would lead to rationing, but now he has turned to it.
Feel free to ignore this post as once again I am a child and am not directly affected by the elections yet.
Dude. Age and ability are not the same thing. Just because you're young doesn't mean your opinion doesn't matter. You are directly affected by the elections. Every American is. But, some people believe that people under 18 shouldn't be allowed to decide what happens to themselves.

As to Kerry, didn't they go over this in the debates? It's the British companies fault, not Bush's.

Well I like this new me. I never realized how liberal I was when I was Anthrus.
It's one thing to be conservative--it's another to refuse to look at evidence objectively. I'm generally progressive, but I'm conservative on certain issues because I'm open to the evidence that a conservative approach is the best one. You've become an idealogue.

To the hippy in the earlier post complaining about the environment. Here's a newsflash, in a given year your lungs produce more carbon dioxide than your car, so go jump off a bridge and save the ozone.

American education works for those students who take the initiative. If you want to be a ignorant gang banger thug that can barely speak or do basic math you are free to do so. Not everyone is going to do well.

In my state the problem is with the state government listening to the elderly citizens and no one else (because no one else votes). It's not bush's fault my states colleges are raising tuition while they are cutting funding (this has been going on since the 90's and maybe before).

Bush did not lie about WMD, it was based on bad intelligence. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the government at the time mostly all wanted to attack along with bush (its a system of checks and balances afterall). Who else voted to go to war? John Kerry

So if Bush lied, Kerry agreed with him. Although he would like you to believe the opposite right now. He voted for it before he voted against it before he voted for it. Assuming he was actually in attendance for any of the senate votes.

I just saw the commercial (from kerry's team) with the woman crying about her son dying in war. I hate to say it, but your son JOINED TO F"ING MILITARY that's what a military does. Does no one understand that joining the military is not the same thing as going to work for Microsoft or Ford ?

You become a government employee that is ordered to fight for your country, you don't get to pick and choose and still be in the military. And no one is forced to join the military.

If you don't want to take the chance of having to go to war, don't join the military.

To the neocon reactionary complaining about how he dosn't want things to make so much sense:

Wow! talk about stooping "low". Let me do this one at a time:

1. That one about CO2 is a total lie and probably comes from a right wing source. And you neocons want to cut down all the trees, whic negate the effects of our breathing by using the CO2 to produce oxygen.

2. Education is only for students who take the initiative? Many people forget that a lot of people who don't get an education do considerably well for themselves. Education could help them do better. And as to those who become gang members, the solution, I think, is not throwing them all in jail and/or sending them to Iraq, which is what they did last time (Vietnam). That's like the guy who said: "Pull the ladder up, i'm on board!"

3. College education could be a lot cheaper if Bush DID SOMETHING about the cost. Unfortuneatley, he'd rather pretend to be doing siomething, which, he's not good at, and let Dick (Cheney) and Karl (Rove) do all the work.

4. Colin Powell, when he was told to report Iraq's usage of WMD at the Un, said: "This is bull****. I'm not going to say this." Apparently there's some discord in the Administration, and about the intelligence? George tenet and the CIA say they didn't tell the administration anything about Saddam-Al-Qa'eda or Sadaam-WMD.

5. John Kerry voted for Bush to use the authority to go to war as a LAST RESORT. Bush, obviously, went there as a first resort. There's a difference.

6. Oh yeah, the final core of neo-conservative policies: they don't care (about anyone but theirselves that is). So, there's no sympathy at all for a greiving mother when she loses a son in a wrong war. How'd you like to lose a kid to iraq. I don't expect you hace a darn good answer until that happens.

Glad to have that off my back. I hope someone reads this... lol. :mp5:

To the neocon reactionary complaining about how he dosn't want things to make so much sense:

Wow! talk about stooping "low". Let me do this one at a time:

Lets do shall we!

1. That one about CO2 is a total lie and probably comes from a right wing source. And you neocons want to cut down all the trees, whic negate the effects of our breathing by using the CO2 to produce oxygen.

Lumber companies plant trees that they cut down because they want to stay in business! So the fact that the lumber companies are at fault is a lie. Yes there is some illegal lumbering, won't deny it because there is but the companies that do it legally, plant a tree for everyone they cut down.

2. Education is only for students who take the initiative? Many people forget that a lot of people who don't get an education do considerably well for themselves. Education could help them do better. And as to those who become gang members, the solution, I think, is not throwing them all in jail and/or sending them to Iraq, which is what they did last time (Vietnam). That's like the guy who said: "Pull the ladder up, i'm on board!"

Ok with this, I can actually agree with you. I will not argue this because I do believe this myself.

3. College education could be a lot cheaper if Bush DID SOMETHING about the cost. Unfortuneatley, he'd rather pretend to be doing siomething, which, he's not good at, and let Dick (Cheney) and Karl (Rove) do all the work.

Ok I find this troubling. I say get the government out of the hands of education. Ever since the Department of Education was created, education started to go down. Leave it alone and get the government out.

4. Colin Powell, when he was told to report Iraq's usage of WMD at the Un, said: "This is bull****. I'm not going to say this." Apparently there's some discord in the Administration, and about the intelligence? George tenet and the CIA say they didn't tell the administration anything about Saddam-Al-Qa'eda or Sadaam-WMD.

Even though it is a known fact that Hussein and Al Qaeda met on a few occassions. What was discussed we don't know. As for the CIA, I blame them for everything.

5. John Kerry voted for Bush to use the authority to go to war as a LAST RESORT. Bush, obviously, went there as a first resort. There's a difference.

That is what he thought he was voting on but unless you can show me in the resolution passed by house and senate.....

And all means were tried. We warned them, he had 17 resolutions, but France blocked it. We probably had the votes for the resolution but France vowed veto so we withdrew the resolution.

6. Oh yeah, the final core of neo-conservative policies: they don't care (about anyone but theirselves that is). So, there's no sympathy at all for a greiving mother when she loses a son in a wrong war. How'd you like to lose a kid to iraq. I don't expect you hace a darn good answer until that happens.

I won't touch this because no matter what I say, It'll get denounced. I will say this though. I do grieve for every soldier and thank them for their sacrific for their country.

Glad to have that off my back. I hope someone reads this... lol. :mp5:

I read it and though you may denounce it because I know it will, remember that these are my opinions and my opinions only.

Lumber companies plant trees that they cut down because they want to stay in business! So the fact that the lumber companies are at fault is a lie. Yes there is some illegal lumbering, won't deny it because there is but the companies that do it legally, plant a tree for everyone they cut down.

Yes, because we all know an eight-foot sapling can process as much CO2 as a 200-year old tree.

I don't mean to be derisive, but I have to call BS when I see it.

Yes, because we all know an eight-foot sapling can process as much CO2 as a 200-year old tree.

I don't mean to be derisive, but I have to call BS when I see it.

Whatever but it is a fact! At least in the US! I know lumber companies do plant trees for the ones they cut down.

1. That one about CO2 is a total lie and probably comes from a right wing source. And you neocons want to cut down all the trees, whic negate the effects of our breathing by using the CO2 to produce oxygen.

As Corneliu said, the legal timber companies replace the trees they cut down.


2. Education is only for students who take the initiative? Many people forget that a lot of people who don't get an education do considerably well for themselves. Education could help them do better. And as to those who become gang members, the solution, I think, is not throwing them all in jail and/or sending them to Iraq, which is what they did last time (Vietnam). That's like the guy who said: "Pull the ladder up, i'm on board!"

I have to agree with you on this.


3. College education could be a lot cheaper if Bush DID SOMETHING about the cost. Unfortuneatley, he'd rather pretend to be doing siomething, which, he's not good at, and let Dick (Cheney) and Karl (Rove) do all the work.

I don't have an opinion on this issue.


4. Colin Powell, when he was told to report Iraq's usage of WMD at the Un, said: "This is bull****. I'm not going to say this." Apparently there's some discord in the Administration, and about the intelligence? George tenet and the CIA say they didn't tell the administration anything about Saddam-Al-Qa'eda or Sadaam-WMD.

Really! He actually said that! How would you know that?


5. John Kerry voted for Bush to use the authority to go to war as a LAST RESORT. Bush, obviously, went there as a first resort. There's a difference.

Kerry COULD be making up the whole Last Resort thing to get more votes.


6. Oh yeah, the final core of neo-conservative policies: they don't care (about anyone but theirselves that is). So, there's no sympathy at all for a greiving mother when she loses a son in a wrong war. How'd you like to lose a kid to iraq. I don't expect you hace a darn good answer until that happens.

Have to agree with you again. I too, will probably join the ranks of the dead soldiers of American wars someday.

Those are my opinions.

I'd say he'll go to about 40% in nationwide polls or so....

I'd say he'll go to about 40% in nationwide polls or so....

Talking about Kerry, Bush, or Nader?

Whatever but it is a fact! At least in the US! I know lumber companies do plant trees for the ones they cut down.

Uhm... I don't dispute it. It sounds reasonable enough. But it doesn't in any way mitigate the global warming risk of, you know, cutting down all the trees.

And volcanoes erupt how often, dumbass?

Dumbass, one major volcano eruption releases more airborne pollution then ma has ever made, dumbass. Global warming is a scare tactic by the leftists.

Uhm... I don't dispute it. It sounds reasonable enough. But it doesn't in any way mitigate the global warming risk of, you know, cutting down all the trees.

*sighs*

Global Warming is a THEORY!! It is not a fact and before you pull out the temperatures warmer now than ever, the dark ages where actually warmer than they are now AND we are coming out of the ice age so yea, temps will be higher.

Thanks for the information. I still dont understand :confused: why so few companies produce the flu vaccine esp with the difficulty of making them (they have to come up with their 'best guess' of what the flu virus will look like). But I really appreciate someone putting up information rather than badgering. :)

Bill and Hillary are to blame for the lack of vaccine in this country. Her 94 plan was to have every child vaccinated, which is a nice thought, but government screwed the companies over. They also have been sued heavily for various things, thus they move out of dodge so they have a chance to survive.

*sighs*

Global Warming is a THEORY!! It is not a fact and before you pull out the temperatures warmer now than ever, the dark ages where actually warmer than they are now AND we are coming out of the ice age so yea, temps will be higher.

Forget about global warming, then. You're saying there is absolutely no risk in raising the CO2 levels in the atmosphere?

You're willing to bet the planet on it, in fact?

Forget about global warming, then. You're saying there is absolutely no risk in raising the CO2 levels in the atmosphere?

You're willing to bet the planet on it, in fact?

Did I say that? *looks at posts* nope never said that. Thanks for putting words in what I said that weren't there.

"How Low Will Kerry Go???"

Answer: as low as it takes to get to the Presidency. :(

and he will get there. and then, us members of moveon will get cheney and give him the mussolini treatment!!

I say get the government out of the Educational School System. It might just make our education system better.um ... so where would they get their money or should education only be made available to those financially capable of paying for it out of their pockets?

But in regards to what he said about Mary Cheney, I'm beginning to have my doubts. Kerry waged a very low blow, and I have a feeling that he will be hurt by this comment.What was so different about when Kerry brought it up and when Edwards bought it up. I did not see the line that was was crossed which had Cheney praise Edwards and chastize Kerry for bringing up the sexuality of his daughter.

However, it was still bad intelligence. It was the exact same intel that lead to Operation Desert Fox in 1998 in case you've forgotten. If that was the case then Clinton should've been impeached for misleading the country. Oh wait, he was impeached on Obstruction of Justice and Purgery but that is beside the point.And then Clinton was acquitted on both counts of his impeachment by a Senate trial. And since this thread is about low political tactics the impeachment proceedings were a controversy of their own and was accused of being an unconstitutional ploy by the republican party to attack the president.

War no. Bombed them due to the same intel, yesI thought that it was the UN that decided to bomb Iraq and not Clinton. I could just be remembering it wrong though.

Did I say that? *looks at posts* nope never said that. Thanks for putting words in what I said that weren't there.

Mmm. It's nice to know there's... well, there's yet another online forum in which intelligent people can come together to discuss pressing issues with the most thinly veiled hostility.

I apologize if I came off as putting words in your mouth. I assure you I was merely attempting to ask for clarification as to your implications.



For the record, in a conversation, when somebody says "So you're saying X?", it generally works much better to say, "No, I'm saying Y" than to say "Stop putting words in my mouth, asshole" (However much you might cover it up with a facade of mock civility). It furthers the discussion (you know, the point of conversing in the first place) and it doesn't make people annoyed at you. Although I admit I'm assuming something of your intentions in saying this...

um ... so where would they get their money or should education only be made available to those financially capable of paying for it out of their pockets?
the states would pay for it, using local taxes and have to deal with less red-tape. a much more streamlined system

What was so different about when Kerry brought it up and when Edwards bought it up. I did not see the line that was was crossed which had Cheney praise Edwards and chastize Kerry for bringing up the sexuality of his daughter.
because nobody listens to Edwards he is a VP canidate and nobody votes for the VP, so nobody cares (and some did complaign but their voices were ignored by the media)

also Cheney was not happy with edwards, you could tell by looking at him. But Cheney has to much respect for his daughter to have made a huge scene.

And then Clinton was acquitted on both counts of his impeachment by a Senate trial. And since this thread is about low political tactics the impeachment proceedings were a controversy of their own and was accused of being an unconstitutional ploy by the republican party to attack the president.
they followed the constitutional process of impeachment, while it may have beem dumb it was not unconstitutional.

I thought that it was the UN that decided to bomb Iraq and not Clinton. I could just be remembering it wrong though.
I believe he got NATO to go along, The UN would have nothing to do with it.

Alright, perhaps this has been asked on this thread already...but I got to page 6 or so and I don't have time to read the rest at the moment...

...But...Friday, my friend was doing some last minute printing of political articles for her government class during school and I happened to start reading the one that mentioned Kerry talking about Cheney's gay daughter during the debate (which doesn't seem offensive at all to me, personally...) but then it started talking about how Cheney's daughter is some high ranking person in their political party campaign what-not (not very savvy on politics, can ya tell? ^_-)...and it also mentioned how Bush/Cheney are against the whole homosexuals can marry and have rights thing...so I was thinking how that must suck...being gay...but having to support your father's campaign that discourages your sexuality?

From reading that I couldn't help but see that Mary Cheney is pretty active in the gay community and would likely be very vocal on the subject on gay marriage.

And then I read this post...and it got me wondering about it again...so would anyone mind sharing their opinion on this?

<Why would she support a campaign that looks negatively upon her sexuality when she's active in the gay community? Is it a 'Daddy's up for VP and you can't make him look bad' kinda thing? Because if you ask me...it's kinda contradicting, isn't it? *shrugs* Like I said, not much into politics...>

I have to gather as much stuff as possible from this thread for the mock debates at my high school. I'm speaking for Bush.

Alright, perhaps this has been asked on this thread already...but I got to page 6 or so and I don't have time to read the rest at the moment...

...But...Friday, my friend was doing some last minute printing of political articles for her government class during school and I happened to start reading the one that mentioned Kerry talking about Cheney's gay daughter during the debate (which doesn't seem offensive at all to me, personally...) but then it started talking about how Cheney's daughter is some high ranking person in their political party campaign what-not (not very savvy on politics, can ya tell? ^_-)...and it also mentioned how Bush/Cheney are against the whole homosexuals can marry and have rights thing...so I was thinking how that must suck...being gay...but having to support your father's campaign that discourages your sexuality?

1. She is not some High ranking member of the campaign, she just helps out.

2. being against gay marriage does not mean you are against gays having rights. In fact the amendment would have given them Civil Unions witch is the same as marriage but just using a different name (yes it is just symantics but they can be important)



And then I read this post...and it got me wondering about it again...so would anyone mind sharing their opinion on this?

<Why would she support a campaign that looks negatively upon her sexuality when she's active in the gay community? Is it a 'Daddy's up for VP and you can't make him look bad' kinda thing? Because if you ask me...it's kinda contradicting, isn't it? *shrugs* Like I said, not much into politics...>

While I can't speak for her, only voting because of one issue is very short-sighted, I would guess even if they disagree on the gay marriage issue they agree on many others.

I have to gather as much stuff as possible from this thread for the mock debates at my high school. I'm speaking for Bush.

That's too bad. It's usually much more educational when you have to argue the side you don't believe in...

With the Pleasure Boat Captains for Truth, the Unfit for Command book, and the overall viciousness of the Bush campaign, I don't really think you or your candidate have the right to be calling Kerry "low" or "insensitive. At the risk of sounding chliched, it's like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sick of it.Good comeback! :cool:
Yeap, what is that book called, ah yes, 'Bushisms'.

Have we forgotten about that film, what was it, 'I don't give a fare crap about 9/11' from that moore dude?

How about the CBS (never knew what the BS meant until afterwards) rathergate saga? :eek:

You are correct, nothing like the pot calling the kettle black!

In my view as low as he thinks he has to.

How low will Kerry go?
It would be more fair and more objective to ask how low either character will go. In my opinion, though, I think we should all remember that the American presidential election is the political equivalent of a limbo tournament with the stick being the line of fairness and courtesy...

the states would pay for it, using local taxes and have to deal with less red-tape. a much more streamlined systemisn't state government still government?

because nobody listens to Edwards he is a VP canidate and nobody votes for the VP, so nobody cares (and some did complaign but their voices were ignored by the media)

also Cheney was not happy with edwards, you could tell by looking at him. But Cheney has to much respect for his daughter to have made a huge scene.As for Cheney complaining if it bothered him than why did he say "Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter." If he did not want to make a huge scene out of respect than why did he and his wife make the scene after the 3rd debate? It just confuses me.

I believe he got NATO to go along, The UN would have nothing to do with it.I had to look it up. NATO was with Serbia (more specifically Kosovo). The UN responded with air strikes against Saddam after he blocked weapon inspections.

No president has ever been elected out of office during wartime. Bush made a war so he would keep his power. Now we have weekly decapitations in Iraq, have billions of dollars invested in an unpopular war, and have increased the threat of terrorism not only at home, but worldwide. No matter how low Kerry goes, it can't be lower than Bush.

I honestly don't know how low Kerry can go. I've never seen him play limbo before.

(Sorry, bad joke)

Kerry may have been inconsistent with some of his decisions in the past and I think it is fair to call him on those things. However, Bush has deliberately misled the American people and some of the world leaders to believe that he was presenting facts when he wasn't.

The fact remains Bush went into war without a plan to win the peace. He went into war knowing that the intellgence he received may not be reliable. He claimed mission accomplished when it was hardly the case. Bush is the worst threat to the USA. Americans look at your nation, its no longer the "United State of America", its more of the "Divided States of America". Criticizing and offering alternatives in the midst of the quagmire your government is into is patriotic!! Anyone who says otherwise is the one who is unpatriotic!!!

Americans remember that your nation was founded on freedom! Freedom founded on trust and peace. Did Bush give you peace during his first term? Peace is not that your nation is not being attacked. Peace is that everyone lives with mutual respect for each other.

The world is far less safer now than it was before Bush and it will continue that way if Americans dont show that you know what Mr. Bush, I'm not happy that money which could have gone to my retirement is being funneled abroad to fight a war of choice in Iraq. You know what I am not happy that I feel scared to say I'm an American abroad for fear that I may be a target of terrorists because you invaded a sovereign nation. I'm fed up with constantly living in fear because you continue to sow fear and terror in the news and in the campaign trail! I disagree with you, I believe in our world USA should work with the world and not against it. And for countless other mistakes you've made to make USA less safe, less free, more threatened with the risk of terror, I CAST MY VOTE AGAINST YOU - BUSH! I'M VOTING AND UNITING OTHERS FOR KERRY! WE NEED A CHANGE AND YOU HAVE DISPLAYED YOUR NOT AN AGENT FOR CHANGE! HELP IS ON THE WAY AMERICA AND YOU CAN DO BETTER WITH A KERRY PRESIDENCY!!!!!!!!!

Damnit man, it was a good speech until you misspelled "You're"...