NationStates Jolt Archive

The meadle east is the most compliceted region in the world. that region was controlled by the years about 20 empires and countries as rome, britain, arabs and israels.
in the lost 55 years, the region don't slept for a second:
we had 7 wars and thousonds of bodies at both sides, we had 2 peace approvals, and in the last few years we had terror.
I don't know if you Know but at the last week we had some incidents:-2 children die when the palastians shoot rockets on Sdierot.
-tzahal open an operation in gaza and kill dozens of citizens, 30 are kids (13 age girl was shoot by psichic platoon comander who shoot her from close range).
-arab terrorist(maybe al-quaida) kill more than 40 tourist at Sinai, half from the tourist are israelian.
-the isralian parlament vote against the prime minister speach (at the speach he talk about coming out from gaza strip and more capitalist economy)
-iran as usual in her way for nuke bomb in 2006.

this is just few of the issues on Israel and I want to know your opinion on that situations and what you think will be at the end.
by the way I'm israeli citizen and I am against the radical and religious fanatic at both sides.

by the way I'm israeli citizen and I am against the radical and religious fanatic at both sides.

Good to see/hear.

What's your position on the Iraq situation?

-snip-
What is the point of all this fighting anymore?

IMO, today's Palestininans don't have as much a lineage claim to the land as much a spiritual one (in other words I dont think they are direct descendants of the original Palestinian Muslims; still, some of the land is indeed holy to them. And also, not all the Palestininans are terrorists, however it may be that way fast). And on the part of Israel; it has a right to defend itself, however it just seems like it goes too far sometimes or way too much collateral damage occurs.

Perhaps what Jerusalem should do is become an int'l city-state, or maybe combine Israel and Palestine into one nation called Israel-Palestine or Palestine-Israel.

by the way I'm israeli citizen and I am against the radical and religious fanatic at both sides.
It'd be nice if a lot more like you, on both sides, stood up and shouted.

Perhaps what Jerusalem should do is become an int'l city-state, or maybe combine Israel and Palestine into one nation called Israel-Palestine or Palestine-Israel.

Or how about IP or PI ?

The peaceful way has been tried many times and faild. Due to one idiot on either side of the conflict. Has there been peace there at anytime in history?

What's your position on the Iraq situation?
As israeli I think that they stuck their like we stucked 18 years at lebanon. Also I think that this was a wrong war.
the americans was should to keep searching bin-ladin at afganistan (they was close but then they moved to Iraq and he escaped),or more simple attack sirya, iran or north korea. all that 3 countries are on the way for nuke, chimical, or biological weapons(if they don't had it already), they support terror and they endangre their neigbours. this was the reasons to attack iraq but iraq isn't the one who fulfil taht terms.
beside, now u.s.a is stuck already so I think that Europe and the U.N. need to help them form standing countrey who don't be an americn doll.

It'd be nice if a lot more like you, on both sides, stood up and shouted.
I'm not the only one. Most of the israelies think that way or close to that way.The problem is the radical are the most powerful team at our countrey and they failed all peace chance.
the calm and unradical citizens are just too desperate from the hopeless situation of 4 years of war, but if they see good chance for standing peace they take it even if it include areas giving.
truely, I think most of the arabs think a same.

Or how about IP or PI ?
Has there been peace there at anytime in history?
This is complicet, even europe with all the illuminism, need thousands years of wars to be in that condition of one umited europe.
I believe that the piece will found is way to the meadle east (even if it will be at 2754)

I'm not the only one. Most of the israelies think that way or close to that way.The problem is the radical are the most powerful team at our countrey and they failed all peace chance.
the calm and unradical citizens are just too desperate from the hopeless situation of 4 years of war, but if they see good chance for standing peace they take it even if it include areas giving.
truely, I think most of the arabs think a same.
I'm also an Israeli Jew and I agree fully with his comments. The radicals on both sides are ruining this conflict.

Perhaps what Jerusalem should do is become an int'l city-state, or maybe combine Israel and Palestine into one nation called Israel-Palestine or Palestine-Israel.
This is easy to say, but hard to get.
Israel is jewish democracy, and the only one at the world.
if israel will'nt be jewish countrey anymore she lose the porpuse that she build for and nobody her want it happen.
if you combained israel and palestine they will be the most in few years and we will be minority in our countrey.

the solution need to be 2 countries for 2 nations who live in peace and with united economies (as the UN say at 29 in november 1947)

Where is this Meadle East?

Where is this Meadle East?
I'd wager his Hebrew is better than yours. So let's forgive him for his spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, shall we? He is getting his point across.

this is just few of the issues on Israel and I want to know your opinion on that situations and what you think will be at the end.
by the way I'm israeli citizen and I am against the radical and religious fanatic at both sides.

I'm curious, what's your political affiliation? Likud? Labor? Shinui?

Do you support Sharon's plan? Do you think it goes too far? Not far enough? How do you feel about the settlements? The settlers?

you mention the killing of kids
but what about the woman and children the idf kill

you mention the killing of kids
but what about the woman and children the idf kill
All sides in conflict are bound to commit atrocities/kill innocent people; all are to blame

I'm curious, what's your political affiliation? Likud? Labor? Shinui?

Do you support Sharon's plan? Do you think it goes too far? Not far enough? How do you feel about the settlements? The settlers?
My political affiaition isn't important, but if you care it so much I'm on the line between yahad and the labor.
Yes, I'm support sharon's plan, and I think that it's good start for future agreement.
I think that the settlements are disater, and we should get out from much of this area.
about the settlers, I'm against their ideas because:
-dozens of soldiers and hundreds of citizens die to let few loonies take more unnececery hills.
-miliards dollars are investedon them instead of the poors,weaks,sicks,pensioners and education.
-minority of them(but still many peoples) kills arabs for fun, ruin olive trees, and speak against the goverment and the democracy, with IDF defence.
-and the worst: while that minority exict there no chance for true peace.

this my opinion. if you not comfortable with that, go ahead and tell me why.

you only mentioned the 4 israeli kids...
thousands of palestinian kids and woman have died...
so its not that the israelis are the poor victims, but the citizens of the region beceause of lame policies of people like sharon

you only mentioned the 4 israeli kids...
thousands of palestinian kids and woman have died...
so its not that the israelis are the poor victims, but the citizens of the region beceause of lame policies of people like sharon
The terrorists hide behind kids and women. They are too cowardly to fight without using human shields.

you only mentioned the 4 israeli kids...
thousands of palestinian kids and woman have died...
so its not that the israelis are the poor victims, but the citizens of the region beceause of lame policies of people like sharon
this is not just sharon's fault.
the radicals in his group, dont let him make his plan.
and about that 4 childs. I said that it's the only last week.
there are more than 500 victims in the israeli side, majority from them are'nt soldiers.
so I'm not said that we are pure angels, but so they are.
what do you think of arabs, if they start bomb in your resturant and coffie shops almost every day for more than 4 years? Israel has the right defend herself when she dont kill too many inicent palastenians, and I can tell you that in most of the times we don't harm them too much.
I'm not saying that this OK but please, think on us too.

and you can't blame me about every dead arabs, because in all army their are few wackos who enjoy to kill for fun, and I'm mot one of them.

"war need 2 sides and no side is the only bad".
(except the nazis at ww2).

The terrorists hide behind kids and women. They are too cowardly to fight without using human shields.
im pretty sure women and children being killed when the israelis hellfire a building arnt being used as shields by terrorists, nor thoes killed when the israelis run them over with tanks or bulldozers

im pretty sure women and children being killed when the israelis hellfire a building arnt being used as shields by terrorists, nor thoes killed when the israelis run them over with tanks or bulldozers
Israel never run over palastinians with tanks or bulduzers.
and the terrorists are the ones who endangre the popolution in the 2 nations. there no army at the world that sucssed to fight in that conditions and don't harm the citizens.
and there was one tourist who died when buldozer run over her, but she tried to go up on him, even when IDF tell her go back, and the driver can't see her.
before you talk, check the facts. It's help you see the reality in israel.

Israel never run over palastinians with tanks or bulduzers.
and the terrorists are the ones who endangre the popolution in the 2 nations. there no army at the world that sucssed to fight in that conditions and don't harm the citizens.
and there was one tourist who died when buldozer run over her, but she tried to go up on him, even when IDF tell her go back, and the driver can't see her.
before you talk, check the facts. It's help you see the reality in israel.
Mate, you'll quickly realise that the Israel debates here are run by a majority who wouldn't know Israel if it wore a sign round its neck saying "I'm Israel".

Mate, you'll quickly realise that the Israel debates here are run by a majority who wouldn't know Israel if it wore a sign round its neck saying "I'm Israel".
That bad?

I prefer still trust on the human intiligence, but until now, I think that is a mith.

My political affiaition isn't important, but if you care it so much I'm on the line between yahad and the labor.
Yes, I'm support sharon's plan, and I think that it's good start for future agreement.
I think that the settlements are disater, and we should get out from much of this area.
about the settlers, I'm against their ideas because:
-dozens of soldiers and hundreds of citizens die to let few loonies take more unnececery hills.
-miliards dollars are investedon them instead of the poors,weaks,sicks,pensioners and education.
-minority of them(but still many peoples) kills arabs for fun, ruin olive trees, and speak against the goverment and the democracy, with IDF defence.
-and the worst: while that minority exict there no chance for true peace.

this my opinion. if you not comfortable with that, go ahead and tell me why.

I'm not uncomfortable with that, that's actually almost exactly where I am. (Except I'm very mistrustful of the withdrawl after reading about the Weisglass interview in Ha'aretz.)

I was just curious about your personal perspective. Thanks for sharing.

The terrorists hide behind kids and women. They are too cowardly to fight without using human shields.
It's not a matter of cowardice. You want a fair fight? You should've given the Palestinians the same support the Israelis were given. When you have no helicopters or standing armies and CAN'T fight the enemy toe-to-toe, you have to resort to so-called 'cowardly' tactics. Were the Viet Cong cowards?

"war need 2 sides and no side is the only bad".
(except the nazis at ww2).
No. Hard as it is to admit someone who committed genocide against your people wasn't entirely evil, you have to face up to the truth if you ever want real peace- on any front. The Versailles treaty utterly crippled Germany for a war that was not its fault. The people were starving and desperate, and in that desperation, turned to the only hope they had- even though it was vile and wicked.

Sound familiar?

As it stands now, I think the situation in Israel has gone much too far- long past the point where the government could save it. The fight will continue, the bodies will pile up, and the nightmare will escalate until the common people finally stand up against it. It took the Northern Irish 800 years to figure this out. I sure hope it doesn't take you another 747.

That bad?

I prefer still trust on the human intiligence, but until now, I think that is a mith.

its not that bad.
Its also a social thing. For a long time our countries (the west) have supported palestine to some degree. I think now there is the backlash. What do we see on TV? 2 isrealies dead, isrealy army retaliates and kills 30 in gaza strip. or something similar. We never see the terrorists attack, only isreal launching missiles.

isreal is losing the PR campaign

I'm very mistrustful of the withdrawl after reading about the Weisglass interview in Ha'aretz.
.
maybe sharon's plane isn't great, but sadly I think that this is the best right now.

1)No. Hard as it is to admit someone who committed genocide against your people wasn't entirely evil, you have to face up to the truth if you ever want real peace- on any front. The Versailles treaty utterly crippled Germany for a war that was not its fault. The people were starving and desperate, and in that desperation, turned to the only hope they had- even though it was vile and wicked.

Sound familiar?

2)As it stands now, I think the situation in Israel has gone much too far- long past the point where the government could save it. The fight will continue, the bodies will pile up, and the nightmare will escalate until the common people finally stand up against it. It took the Northern Irish 800 years to figure this out. I sure hope it doesn't take you another 747.
1)I'm don't said that the germans are the bad, I said that the nazis are. not all the germans was nazis, and I know that even in his group Hitler had people who think that he commited crimes against humanity.
but if Hitler isn't the ultimate evil, who is him?
2)well I realy hope you wrong, and it will finish in our time, but after so much bloodship, I hardly believe that myself.

Some typos just cry out to be fixed...

RANDOM EXPLOSIONS: I don't agree that because the Palestinians don't have an army that they have the right to commit terrorist attacks on shops and buses. If they were a true "freedom fighters" then they would only bomb legitamate targets, military and govermental. Going after civilians reduces you to that terrorist state.

its not that bad.
Its also a social thing. For a long time our countries (the west) have supported palestine to some degree. I think now there is the backlash. What do we see on TV? 2 isrealies dead, isrealy army retaliates and kills 30 in gaza strip. or something similar. We never see the terrorists attack, only isreal launching missiles.

isreal is losing the PR campaign
I know.
this is because in Israel the issue of bodies and injured pictures is very sensetive. we prefer to think on the families feelings, except get the support of the world.
and about see terrorist while they attack, it's very hard to catch photos of that, because if you was at terror area yo probaly dead. and sadly the effect of burn bus is less then the effect of tank that fire on house in gaza.

I know.
this is because in Israel the issue of bodies and injured pictures is very sensetive. we prefer to think on the families feelings, except get the support of the world.
and about see terrorist while they attack, it's very hard to catch photos of that, because if you was at terror area yo probaly dead. and sadly the effect of burn bus is less then the effect of tank that fire on house in gaza.

yeah......

I'm sorry to say this, but i really don't see this conflict ending any time soon.
can always hope i guess...

yeah......

I'm sorry to say this, but i really don't see this conflict ending any time soon.
can always hope i guess...
sure, but hope is only thing that stay, when all the other ways are stuck.

IMO, the root cause of the conflict is poverty. Religion and mob-rule in general is the cathalyst.
Do you think the integrating both Palestine and Israel into the EU would help?

...by the way I'm israeli citizen...

:/
One can sure tell.

Just when I thought the only people who care about this region are Europeans/Americans, here comes you.
Ha, well.
Middle East.
Shoot me if I give a damn about it... It really gets on one's nerves after a while.

IMO, the root cause of the conflict is poverty. Religion and mob-rule in general is the cathalyst.
Do you think the integrating both Palestine and Israel into the EU would help?
For israel, sure. Many israelis want to be part from Europe an get the included bonuses.
but the palastnine poverty is caused by the corruption of Araffat and his partners who take all the money that Europe donated to the palastenians and invest it in terror and goods for his family. If you want to help them you need that Araffat's gang willbe far from the money and the terrorists's bank despoits will taken.
but if europe will be united in her wish to finish that war(and be objective) this could help. Europe and USA are the only one who can do that, but this got to between the important issues if you want to sucssed.

:/
One can sure tell.

Just when I thought the only people who care about this region are Europeans/Americans, here comes you.
Ha, well.
Middle East.
Shoot me if I give a damn about it... It really gets on one's nerves after a while.
Maybe it's for you, but for me this is the reality.

Green Israel:
the palastnine poverty is caused by the corruption of Araffat and his partners who take all the money that Europe donated to the palastenians and invest it in terror and goods for his family. If you want to help them you need that Araffat's gang willbe far from the money and the terrorists's bank despoits will taken.

True there's a lot of corruption there, but there's another factor too. Two years ago the EU built an airfield for the Palestineans. The IDF destroyed it.. That's just one example. How many houses has the IDF destroyed this year? I really don't see how destroying the Palestinean infrastructure and cities is going to help ending this conflict.

I think one of the biggest problems in this conflict is that on both sides many decisions are based on religion. Israeli settlers try to retake 'their' land, Palestineans fight for 'their' holy temple, etc. If we could just look this all in a more rational way, it would be a lot less complicated. People A and People B get their fair share of the land (fair according to number of inhabitants, current living places etc). Both peoples get a share of the capital city.

Action plan:

1) Both peoples declare that they dont base any clames on the bible/quran.

2) Israel retreats behind the '67 borders and removes the settlers from the Palestinean territory. The Palestineans rebuild their police force (witch has been destroyed by isreal by the way), so they can stop the terrorists.

3) Israel compensates the Palestineans who have lost property when they were driven of their land in the 1940's.

If this is done I would vote for EU support for Isreal in it's fight against the terrorists, I would even support a bid by Israel to join the EU.

Green Israel:


True there's a lot of corruption there, but there's another factor too. Two years ago the EU built an airfield for the Palestineans. The IDF destroyed it.. That's just one example. How many houses has the IDF destroyed this year? I really don't see how destroying the Palestinean infrastructure and cities is going to help ending this conflict.

I think one of the biggest problems in this conflict is that on both sides many decisions are based on religion. Israeli settlers try to retake 'their' land, Palestineans fight for 'their' holy temple, etc. If we could just look this all in a more rational way, it would be a lot less complicated. People A and People B get their fair share of the land (fair according to number of inhabitants, current living places etc). Both peoples get a share of the capital city.

Action plan:

1) Both peoples declare that they dont base any clames on the bible/quran.

2) Israel retreats behind the '67 borders and removes the settlers from the Palestinean territory. The Palestineans rebuild their police force (witch has been destroyed by isreal by the way), so they can stop the terrorists.

3) Israel compensates the Palestineans who have lost property when they were driven of their land in the 1940's.

If this is done I would vote for EU support for Isreal in it's fight against the terrorists, I would even support a bid by Israel to join the EU.
yes, you right that israel destroyed many house, but that because one other factor: self respect.
every time their are bodies in one side, he need to recover is self respect by killing people on the other side.
at least that was the start, now it all stuck.

and now for your plane:
1) you can't said things like stop base on the bible. religion is always dificult and unrationaly thing. but if you can that will help.
2)I don't think it would work. the major of israelies agree to the peace agreement, only if it included keeping the big settling masses.
3)israel can do that if little support from the word, but you have to ensure that the money will go the palastinian who need him, and not the terrorists.

that factors should be thought, but we need partner in the other side, whose no conect to arrafat.

Oil will survive a nuke. You can drilll through the radioactive glass. Why we haven't done this is a question:

If it is so important to keep soccer moms on the road with a cell phone glued to there ear, then you might as well surgically insert PC up their ass.

Oil will survive a nuke. You can drilll through the radioactive glass. Why we haven't done this is a question:

If it is so important to keep soccer moms on the road with a cell phone glued to there ear, then you might as well surgically insert PC up their ass.

Hey we all know if Americans don't have their SUV's then life as we know it will end! If soccer moms can't pay a couple bucks a gallon for a massive automobile that sucks all its gasoline into a black hole than how will they survive?

I think the wall is a good thing. We in the west don't hear too many suicide bombings recently in the news. Only mortars.

But the Palestinians have to definitely do something about those terrorists. Arafat doesn't seem to be doing his job as the leader.

Because Terrorist organizations like Hamas do not acknowledge that Isreal should exist. So their motive is to kill all Isreali's.

Link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3639093.stm

Hard Talk, Tim Sebastian talks with Khaled Mashaal. Somewhere 3/4, he asks about whether Isreal is allowed to exist.


Btw, Green Isreal. How's things in Isreal overall? I heard, it's rather safe to go there, except don't go near the borders, or the more dangerous areas?

Btw, Green Isreal. How's things in Isreal overall? I heard, it's rather safe to go there, except don't go near the borders, or the more dangerous areas?
you mostly right. israel is safe place right now, so tourists can tour in jerusalem or tel-aviv, without too much warnings. but still you shouldn't pass the board or go to sdierot, that rockets have been shot on her.
but the war barely influencing on the simple citizen.

but the war barely influencing on the simple
citizen.Perhaps that's the problem. It's a limited war and people are naturally good at closing their eyes and getting on with their lives. People did it during the era of the concentration camps, people do it in Northern Ireland and many other places in the world.
So long as only a few people are being killed and them not in your town it's easy to push it to the back of your mind. I would expect that most of the people who live in the border areas where the danger is greater are radicals anyway and probably feel their self-sacrifice is worthy of something. Everyone else is busy keeping their heads down hoping it'll go away.