NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to start off by saying that I am Libertarian, and belong to neither Dems or Reps.

A political conversation with my mom:

Mom: Bush is great!
Me: I can't stand either of them.
Mom: He has integrity tho
Me: *launches into clear explanation of how Bush has said contradictory things about Bin Laden*
Mom: (totally skirts the point) But I think liberals are soft on terror and *insert remarks about how they are for handouts and pro-communism*
Me: Augh - tho I'm Libertarian, LIBERALS ARE NOT LIKE THAT!!! Not all of them want that; granted they are liberal on the econmy, but NOT *THAT* LIBERAL! Plus, the RNC and conservatives have been asses themselves *insert rant about the fake letters warning that liberals will ban the Bible*
Mom: Yes they will!
Me: Hello? I know *tons* of liberals who would never do that!
Mom: Oh yes they would!
Me: You really are that type of a stuck-up conservative, aren't you now? Well guess what; do you hate Libertarians cause they have the same root word as liberals? Huh?
Mom: No
Me: and guess what? Libertarians are sometimes known as 'classic liberals' - so do you hate 'classic liberals' AKA Libertarians as well as regular liberals?
Mom: No

Dude, sorry, but your mom's an idiot.

Dude, sorry, but your mom's an idiot.
That's a flame methinks.

Although I think Super's mom needs a bit of help on how she forms her opinions, let her have her way. She'll find out sure enough when Kerry wins.

If not, wait another 4 years. Life experiances change a person's opinions.

That's rather amusing in a kind of pathetic way. I don't understand where this idea comes from that liberals are communists! Also, everyone seems to use "Democrat" and "liberal" interchangeably these days, which is very misleading. "Communist", "Democrat", and "liberal" are all distinct terms with very different meanings. Most Democrats are centrist to conservative in reality, and communism is entirely unrelated. It's sad how misinformed so many people are.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and also, everyone mixes up left and liberal, and right and conservative. Liberal/conservative refers to social issues, left/right to economic ones. Certainly many liberals are leftists and the same on the other side, but there are also the liberal Libertarians and the conservative Statists who are crossed with right and left the opposite direction.

This coming from a social liberal, economic waffler. The last time someone asked me my political philosophy I answered "I can't decide between socialism or anarchism." He was extremely confused.

set fire to her

trying to be as least offensive as i can be on these matters, uhh your moms a douche

"teh suck?" If you're gonna use that expression at least spell it right... it's spelled teh sukc.

How sad that she hates liberals just because their opinions are different.

It's sloppy thinking. We, as humans, tend to slap a label on something, and then think of it only in terms of the label. Since some liberals are wacko enough to want to ban the bible, they all are.

I've been fighting to get my mom to think through the lables for years, with only a modecum of success.

If liberals really wanted to ban the Bible, why haven't they done it by now. We've had some pretty liberal Presidents. Democrats have held the Congress. Banning the Bible would violate the First Amendment. Liberals support the First Amendment.
Even the "weak on terror" argument is flawed because terrorists can attack anywhere. Even Saudi Arabia and Indonesia, where the government is much more restrictive than in America. This is why we cannot trade liberty for security.

Provide facts. She'll either see things your way, deny your sources, or become comatose.

I'm having that same problem now. I'm a hard-core leftwing pinko, and my family is very conservative. My Dad keeps telling me what the 'liberals' are saying, and he means 'Democrats'--which bothers me, as the Democrats are moderates in my view...but yeah. My Mom doesn't agree with the Republicans on anything, but she keeps defending them. Ergh.

Here is what is so friggin hilarious - conservatives, neo-conservatives and the extremist even beyond them are right now part of the American political reality. And they rant and shout and point at "liberals" as if we are the boogie man. They say we are pinkos, they compare us to communist as if we are one in the same.

HELLO, news flash. If they continue to ostracize the masses, displace them through radical tax cuts that only advantage the wealthiest, remove basic health care and pollute the land. They will see a rise in socialist and communist values. It won't likely rise through the same social veins of the past century, ie labor, you will see it in the rise of radical religious movements or massive protests over corporate globalization. (Seem vaguely familiar?)

Pardon me, I digress. Point is, liberals are the moderates of the left side of the political scales. Embrace us! Consider our concepts as fair-minded or force us from the table and move us farther to the left, I mean teh left.

Wahoo!
ScoMo the Homo

She has just as much right to be Conservative as you do Liberal.
Vote for who YOU want.

My mom's the same way about conservatives. Granted, I'm a liberal as well, but she seems to be a liberal for no real reason, and is entirely convinced that the Republican Party is pure evil, and the Democratic Party can do no wrong, ever. *sigh* Do you ever wish you were adopted, too?

It's sloppy thinking. We, as humans, tend to slap a label on something, and then think of it only in terms of the label. Since some liberals are wacko enough to want to ban the bible, they all are.
Actually, I've never even met one person who would propose banning the Bible, even the ones who absolutely detest religion.

She has just as much right to be Conservative as you do Liberal.
Vote for who YOU want.

She has the right. We also have the right to rail against ignorance and inappropriate labeling. See, while she has the right, she's not right. Being right has nothing to do with rights. Unless, of course, you are a member of the right, where you might think that expressing a right makes you right. Many also think might makes right, right? We have the right to write or speak what we want, but others have the right do do it right back. Hopefully if we duscuss things right we'll get much closer to getting it right without swinging too far to the left or right.

Bloody well right.

trying to be as least offensive as i can be on these matters, uhh your moms a douche

Well that's nice!

Keep up the good work eh?

Actually, I've never even met one person who would propose banning the Bible, even the ones who absolutely detest religion.

http://mwillett.org/ (http://)


Go here, read through the debate forum, there are quite a few people who want to ban religion.

Dude, sorry, but your mom's an idiot.

I agree with you on that point.

But, Superpower, Libertarian? You're also evil. :rolleyes:

Moms can so be "teh suck."

Here is what is so friggin hilarious - conservatives, neo-conservatives and the extremist even beyond them are right now part of the American political reality. And they rant and shout and point at "liberals" as if we are the boogie man. They say we are pinkos, they compare us to communist as if we are one in the same.

HELLO, news flash. If they continue to ostracize the masses, displace them through radical tax cuts that only advantage the wealthiest, remove basic health care and pollute the land. They will see a rise in socialist and communist values. It won't likely rise through the same social veins of the past century, ie labor, you will see it in the rise of radical religious movements or massive protests over corporate globalization. (Seem vaguely familiar?)

Pardon me, I digress. Point is, liberals are the moderates of the left side of the political scales. Embrace us! Consider our concepts as fair-minded or force us from the table and move us farther to the left, I mean teh left.

Wahoo!
ScoMo the Homo
Excellent, and the day you Socialists figure out that Socialism in practice does not work will be the day I dance a jig. You see, to the best of my knowledge no govermental form works for shit. Democracy leads to tyranny of the majority. A Republic leads to vast internal corruption. Socialism is the same, and Communism leads to despotism. Fascism leads to despotism. A monarchy leads to despotism. Anarchy leads to war. Thus, nothing works. However, if you truly believe that going Socialist will solve all our problems, then you are blind to the truth. Remember, Canada tried that route. They raised taxes and instituted free health care, as I remember. However, now, they still have high taxes, and I seem to recall they have to pay for health care now. Hmm.

Not to mention that the tax cuts for the wealthy are based on a sytem that has, at the least, proven moderately successful. Supply side economics, its called. Utilized in the New Deal program to alleviate the Great Depression. Interestingly, it was first instituted by a Democrat named Franklin Delano Roosevelt, as you may recall. Now, just how effective it was in defeating the Depression is unknown, because WWII occurred. However, you should keep in mind that the idea of cutting taxes on the upper class, so that the extra money will "trickle down" to lower individuals on the totem pole, has been proven sound. If nothing else, the fact that after a major terrorist attack that could have lead to another Depression, considering the target, our economy has rebounded and unemployment is at only 5.6% (compare that to Socialist France at 9%). I would say it has been remarkably effective, in conjunction with the tax cuts. Not to mention that government handouts that go directly to the poor have proven to be extremely costly to implement and fairly unsuccessful, in that they do nothing to motivate the recipient.

I agree with you on that point.

But, Superpower, Libertarian? You're also evil. :rolleyes:
By the way, your mom obviously knows very little about the isues involved. However, calling your mother a "stuck-up conservative" seems a little harsh. Maybe its just that I respect my parents, but I dunno.

well, im afraid superpower07 is the new mascot for the "sons of idiotic bitches" association

how could anyone believe in banning religion... in not religious myself but benning someones right to what ever they believe seems along the lines of a dictatorship

how could anyone believe in banning religion... in not religious myself but benning someones right to what ever they believe seems along the lines of a dictatorship

well...while not banning all religions...ashcroft is...doing some things...

I'd like to start off by saying that I am Libertarian, and belong to neither Dems or Reps.

A political conversation with my mom:

Mom: Bush is great!
Me: I can't stand either of them.
Mom: He has integrity tho
Me: *launches into clear explanation of how Bush has said contradictory things about Bin Laden*
Mom: (totally skirts the point) But I think liberals are soft on terror and *insert remarks about how they are for handouts and pro-communism*
Me: Augh - tho I'm Libertarian, LIBERALS ARE NOT LIKE THAT!!! Not all of them want that; granted they are liberal on the econmy, but NOT *THAT* LIBERAL! Plus, the RNC and conservatives have been asses themselves *insert rant about the fake letters warning that liberals will ban the Bible*
Mom: Yes they will!
Me: Hello? I know *tons* of liberals who would never do that!
Mom: Oh yes they would!
Me: You really are that type of a stuck-up conservative, aren't you now? Well guess what; do you hate Libertarians cause they have the same root word as liberals? Huh?
Mom: No
Me: and guess what? Libertarians are sometimes known as 'classic liberals' - so do you hate 'classic liberals' AKA Libertarians as well as regular liberals?
Mom: No
oh thats just sad
and its why the republicans have gotten so much support

instead of going after kerry on what should be a long list of easy issues-- after all there are many many legit differences between bush and kerry, and its quite rational to prefer the republicans over the democrats-- they spread LIES that for some reason stick with people. then they end up on the "wrong" side because they have been scared into thinking they would so something as impossible as banning the bible

my own mother in law STILL thinks that saddam hussein was involved in 9/11. to her, all those "arabs" are the same anyway whether they are saudi, afghan or iraqi

it drives me crazy that the lies are what works for the republicans and that they are SOOOO good at telling them.

By the way, your mom obviously knows very little about the isues involved. However, calling your mother a "stuck-up conservative" seems a little harsh. Maybe its just that I respect my parents, but I dunno.

?!

Why did you quote me? I didn't say that.

This coming from a social liberal, economic waffler. The last time someone asked me my political philosophy I answered "I can't decide between socialism or anarchism." He was extremely confused.

He's not alone! :D

However, you should keep in mind that the idea of cutting taxes on the upper class, so that the extra money will "trickle down" to lower individuals on the totem pole, has been proven sound.
Actually we tried it in my country and we are still waiting....2 decades after the fact. I figure if it hasnt trickled down yet, it's not 'gonna'. :rolleyes:

She has the right. We also have the right to rail against ignorance and inappropriate labeling. See, while she has the right, she's not right. Being right has nothing to do with rights. Unless, of course, you are a member of the right, where you might think that expressing a right makes you right. Many also think might makes right, right? We have the right to write or speak what we want, but others have the right do do it right back. Hopefully if we duscuss things right we'll get much closer to getting it right without swinging too far to the left or right.

Bloody well right.

Right.
And, yes, I am Right.

Not to mention that the tax cuts for the wealthy are based on a sytem that has, at the least, proven moderately successful. Supply side economics, its called.
It's also, more accuratly, called a load of crap.

However, you should keep in mind that the idea of cutting taxes on the upper class, so that the extra money will "trickle down" to lower individuals on the totem pole, has been proven sound.

No, it hasn't. That's why Bush Sr. ran up such a huge deficit, and now junior is running up an even bigger one. The idea behind trickle down economics is that there are mega rich corporate giants out there turning their pockets inside out crying, "If only I brought in more than a hundred million dollars this year I'd be able hire enough workers to turn my business into a real success." If business people feel they need to expand to meet demand they take out a loan. If business people have the money to expand out of pocket, but there is no demand, they just sit on the money. You see a pretty good working definition of "wealthy" is that you have all the money you want to spend and having more only adds to what you don't spend. I know, I used to work at the IRS reading these guys' tax forms. There is nothing more galling than seeing a tax return with an Adjusted Taxable Income of over a hundred million and the guy still gets a refund.

The way you promote economic growth is seeing to it that the consumers have more money, not the producers. The producers know how to get more money no matter how you slice it. They've been saying that since Ben Franklin's day.

Excellent, and the day you Socialists figure out that Socialism in practice does not work will be the day I dance a jig.

Come my Nero. Come come my Nero. you're my butterfly. Sugar baby.
Come my lady you're my pretty baby
I'll make your legs shake, you make me go crazy

come and jig with me
come and jig with me
come and jig with me...

Dang Hades, I love it when you dance my dance and I don't even have to buy you a drink or slap your ass. I appreciate your williness to hand me such a pretty, almost as pretty as your eyes when you look up at me, example to work with.

No, I am not a Socialist, nor am I offended to be called one, butt I think my point was when Supply "Trickle Down On This" Side Conservatives infer that all Liberals are Socialist or whatever they are not to emphasize their point they lose credibility and significantly decrease the likelihood for anyone to take their argument, persuassive or not, seriously. (Kinda like you probably aren't really hearing my point because I played around, danced a dance, but didn't buy you a drink or slap your ass.)

Oye, did I digress again.

Scomo the Homo

I'd like to start off by saying that I am Libertarian, and belong to neither Dems or Reps.

( grabs Superpower by the scruff of the neck, shakes him till his teeth rattle, slapping cheeks all the while ) LISTEN TO YER MOMMA YOU UNGRATEFUL WHELP! :D

I'd like to start off by saying that I am Libertarian, and belong to neither Dems or Reps.

A political conversation with my mom:

Mom: Bush is great!
Me: I can't stand either of them.
Mom: He has integrity tho
Me: *launches into clear explanation of how Bush has said contradictory things about Bin Laden*
Mom: (totally skirts the point) But I think liberals are soft on terror and *insert remarks about how they are for handouts and pro-communism*
Me: Augh - tho I'm Libertarian, LIBERALS ARE NOT LIKE THAT!!! Not all of them want that; granted they are liberal on the econmy, but NOT *THAT* LIBERAL! Plus, the RNC and conservatives have been asses themselves *insert rant about the fake letters warning that liberals will ban the Bible*
Mom: Yes they will!
Me: Hello? I know *tons* of liberals who would never do that!
Mom: Oh yes they would!
Me: You really are that type of a stuck-up conservative, aren't you now? Well guess what; do you hate Libertarians cause they have the same root word as liberals? Huh?
Mom: No
Me: and guess what? Libertarians are sometimes known as 'classic liberals' - so do you hate 'classic liberals' AKA Libertarians as well as regular liberals?
Mom: No
Does your mom have a mental illness?
Retardation perhaps?
If she really talks the way you say she is absolutely a flaming moron.
I like her vote though.
I am a Libertarian myself and as any Libertarian knows the Democrats go much farther from the Libertarian ideal then the GOPers do.
I hope your mom gets better.