NationStates Jolt Archive

Four boxes protect our freedom. They are: Soap, Ballot, Jury and Ammo.
That is also the correct sequence of use.

Four boxes protect our freedom. They are: Soap, Ballot, Jury and Ammo.
That is also the correct sequence of use.

You forgot penalty.

Another fucking gun thread.

You forgot penalty.

Another fucking gun thread.

Yes and it is our guns that ultimately insure our freedom!

Another gun-control liberal!

Yes (http://www.tricity.wsu.edu/images/agree.jpg)

Right on. I sleep better at night knowing that my Ithaca Model 37 is less than six feet away in my closet.

I sleep safe at night knowing that other's do not have Ithaca Model 37 in their possession. Only criminals perhaps, but that's a tiny minority.

I have a stinger just in case they come with tanks. It is always loaded.

I have a stinger just in case they come with tanks. It is always loaded.
Come with tanks? Who? The unfathomable evil from the communists? Dude get a clue. If anyone would war against the US on US soil, it would be with weapons that you could never defeat with your missiles or shotguns or whatnot anyway.

Come with tanks? Who? The unfathomable evil from the communists? Dude get a clue. If anyone would war against the US on US soil, it would be with weapons that you could never defeat with your missiles or shotguns or whatnot anyway.


What would they come after us with? Gigantic robots, perhaps Godzilla, Gammera, and maybe even Mothra!

Come with tanks? Who? The unfathomable evil from the communists? Dude get a clue. If anyone would war against the US on US soil, it would be with weapons that you could never defeat with your missiles or shotguns or whatnot anyway.

Actually, our own Government. The FBI used a tank when they attacked the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.

What would they come after us with? Gigantic robots, perhaps Godzilla, Gammera, and maybe even Mothra!

PC thought police perhaps?

Actually I think the reference was to bio-wepons and/or hijacked planes.

Maybe they will attack with a new Idea? A new thought?

The latter seems to work, even if the implementation is flawed.

PC thought police perhaps?

Actually I think the reference was to bio-wepons and/or hijacked planes.

Maybe they will attack with a new Idea? A new thought?

The latter seems to work, even if the implementation is flawed.


You can shoot down a hijacked airliner. Just make sure it's actually hijacked before you launch your missile!

What would they come after us with? Gigantic robots, perhaps Godzilla, Gammera, and maybe even Mothra!
An army of cloned George Bushes.

Actually, our own Government. The FBI used a tank when they attacked the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.
It would be soooo cool if that would realy happen!!! US civil war!!!! WOOOOOO!!!! Finally some quality reality TV!!!!

You can shoot down a hijacked airliner. Just make sure it's actually hijacked before you launch your missile!

My point was that the only way to attack that cannot be defended against is to make someone Think. Bio-weapons can be defaeted.

My point was that the only way to attack that cannot be defended against is to make someone Think. Bio-weapons can be defaeted.

I was just joshing ya. Honestly though, these terrorists aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. Watch Team America, then let me know.

Even though I don't own a gun, and I don't know anyone who owns a gun, I don't live in fear of having my freedom taken away. Why is this?

I was just joshing ya. Honestly though, these terrorists aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. Watch Team America, then let me know.

Hit me with mind-numbing pop-culture crap references one more time. I feel a living brain cell still holding on.

Four boxes protect our freedom. They are: Soap, Ballot, Jury and Ammo.
That is also the correct sequence of use.
You forgot your own personal boxers that protect your freedom. ;)


of course in Iraq, it's Ammo, Ammo, Ammo, and ballot (followed by more Ammo).

Come with tanks? Who? The unfathomable evil from the communists? Dude get a clue. If anyone would war against the US on US soil, it would be with weapons that you could never defeat with your missiles or shotguns or whatnot anyway.

Kinda like 9/11?

I sleep safe at night knowing that other's do not have Ithaca Model 37 in their possession. Only criminals perhaps, but that's a tiny minority.

Yeah, right up to the point where they rape your wife and kill your children. Then they're not some friggin' "oppressed minority!"

Yeah, right up to the point where they rape your wife and kill your children. Then they're not some friggin' "oppressed minority!"

Like I said, with Mr. Twelve-Gauge in the closet, I sleep like a baby. And of course, I can't forget Mr. Nine-Millimeter backing him up. "Say hello to my lil' friend!"

Like I said, with Mr. Twelve-Gauge in the closet, I sleep like a baby. And of course, I can't forget Mr. Nine-Millimeter backing him up. "Say hello to my lil' friend!"


:D

Like I said, with Mr. Twelve-Gauge in the closet, I sleep like a baby. And of course, I can't forget Mr. Nine-Millimeter backing him up. "Say hello to my lil' friend!"

Or perhaps a simple warrior dedicated to protecting his loved ones? *smilie*

Or perhaps a simple warrior dedicated to protecting his loved ones? *smilie*

You got it brother.

Even though I don't own a gun, and I don't know anyone who owns a gun, I don't live in fear of having my freedom taken away. Why is this?

I don't know. Perhapse naiveity?
(And if you really don't know anyone who owns a firearm, which I doubt - you probably just aren't aware of it, you really should widen your circle of friends. I live in a country with some of the strictest firearms laws in the world, and I know people who own legal firearms here - and probably a few who own illegal firearms.)

Or perhaps a simple warrior dedicated to protecting his loved ones? *smilie*

That too. I'm immensely proud of the fact that North Carolina has a concealed carry law. Contrary to what the anti-gun nuts would have us believe, concealed carry laws do not result in more violence. Since NC passed their concealed carry laws, violent crime has dropped drastically. I suppose the thinking ( if you can call it that ) among the criminal set goes, "Holy shit! Anyone in any convenience store I wanna hit might be packin'!" :D

Even though I don't own a gun, and I don't know anyone who owns a gun, I don't live in fear of having my freedom taken away. Why is this?

Um, naivety?

Crap - I didn't notice the above post

Hasn't happened yet. Everyone whinges aout how 'Oh! If guns are illegal, then criminals will have guns because they're criminals, and thus don't care about the law, and thus we won't have guns to shoot back with!'

The fact that making guns illegal means that it is a good, good deal harder for your average criminal to get his hands on one seems to fly over the heads of the gun-nuts. In the UK, your average shoplifter will NOT have a gun when he goes out to commit a crime. It's more trouble than it's worth, and he can't actually get his hands on one anyway - the average person in the UK will not be aware of how to get a gun, and considering that I am an average person in the UK and I KNOW a lot of average people in the UK, I might be in a position to speak accurately about this.

However, in the US, the shoplifter owns a gun because he bought one from the local grocery store, or what have you. And thus a situation of crime becomes automatically more dangerous.

I will just point out that people in the UK don't really tend to feel that oppressed because we're not allowed to own guns. Call us naive, or being controlled by the government, or what have you, but I have never personally known anyone who has, or would say "Gee, I wish I could keep my gun" or "That was a nasty situation - wish I'd had a gun, THAT would have made things better."

Maybe we're naive and being oppressed by our government. Or maybe we're not paranoid psychos who think that our government will be out to get us - and in ways we can fight with guns, no less - and that every criminal will be packing an AK-47.

Quite frankly, if it comes to the stage when you NEED an assault rifle in your own home, I think you're pretty much buggered as it is. And yes, if it happens, I will be unprepared. I'll be unprepared if a gas bomb's dropped on my block, too, because I don't have a chemical suit in my closet.

Should I go buy one of them, too? Them pesky terrorists...

Um, naivety?

Crap - I didn't notice the above post

:D

However, in the US, the shoplifter owns a gun because he bought one from the local grocery store, or what have you. And thus a situation of crime becomes automatically more dangerous.

I will just point out that people in the UK don't really tend to feel that oppressed because we're not allowed to own guns. Call us naive, or being controlled by the government, or what have you, but I have never personally known anyone who has, or would say "Gee, I wish I could keep my gun" or "That was a nasty situation - wish I'd had a gun, THAT would have made things better."



Umm...the average shoplifter in the US doesn't carry a gun either. Mainly, I think, because the average shoplifter is 16...and also carrying a weapon while in the comission of a crime is a major boo boo, especially for a petty thief.

Also, while nobody seems to scream over the loss of gun ownership in the UK, they sure enjoyed hurling their bubble and sweuak at the politicians over the ban on fox hunting. Why is that?

Hasn't happened yet. Everyone whinges aout how 'Oh! If guns are illegal, then criminals will have guns because they're criminals, and thus don't care about the law, and thus we won't have guns to shoot back with!'

The fact that making guns illegal means that it is a good, good deal harder for your average criminal to get his hands on one seems to fly over the heads of the gun-nuts. In the UK, your average shoplifter will NOT have a gun when he goes out to commit a crime. It's more trouble than it's worth, and he can't actually get his hands on one anyway - the average person in the UK will not be aware of how to get a gun, and considering that I am an average person in the UK and I KNOW a lot of average people in the UK, I might be in a position to speak accurately about this.

However, in the US, the shoplifter owns a gun because he bought one from the local grocery store, or what have you. And thus a situation of crime becomes automatically more dangerous.

I will just point out that people in the UK don't really tend to feel that oppressed because we're not allowed to own guns. Call us naive, or being controlled by the government, or what have you, but I have never personally known anyone who has, or would say "Gee, I wish I could keep my gun" or "That was a nasty situation - wish I'd had a gun, THAT would have made things better."

Maybe we're naive and being oppressed by our government. Or maybe we're not paranoid psychos who think that our government will be out to get us - and in ways we can fight with guns, no less - and that every criminal will be packing an AK-47.

Quite frankly, if it comes to the stage when you NEED an assault rifle in your own home, I think you're pretty much buggered as it is. And yes, if it happens, I will be unprepared. I'll be unprepared if a gas bomb's dropped on my block, too, because I don't have a chemical suit in my closet.

Should I go buy one of them, too? Them pesky terrorists...

What are you talking about? I haven't heard of an armed shoplifter and I'm a prosecutor. The whole point of shoplifting is the steal something on the the sneak. If you use a weapon - it is robbery. Robbers have weapons; shoplifters put the merchandise down their pants. And in the States, one cannot buy a firearm at a grocery store. Even in the South. Unless, of course, your neighborhood green grocer happens to be a Federally licenced firearms dealer, and that is possible in the South. Long live Dixie! Obviously, you're from somewhere in the UK. That's fine and good. But remember, to Americans, our right to bear arms is a right that we hold very dear. After all, if our minute men didn't have their arms, we could have never booted you British out of our country.

Apparently our friends who do not live in a country that does not have armed citizens need to be enlightened on the difference between legal and illegal weapons. For one, and I'm going by my state, (Virginia) certain types of ammunition are outright illegal. Certain types of weapons are restricted, but the only weapon that is outright illegal under any circumstances is the Stryker-12 shotgun. Assault rifles, as in those of the class of M-16's and AK-47's are quite legal, assuming that they are purchased legally, have a magazine capacity of no more that ten rounds (note that this applies to all weapons) , no suppressor mount, (you can apply for a permit) and are not capable of automatic fire. Explosives, missile launchers, mortars, grenades and other types of military hardware are also illegal.
Ages:
Long rifles and shotguns are legal to purchase at the age of eighteen. Long rifles include civilian model assault rifles.
Handguns are legal to purchase at the age of twenty-one. A minor can hold title to and inherit weapons, but may not own until they are an adult.

Permits: Concealed carry weapons permit (CCW) can be obtained at the minimum age of twenty-one and are applicable to handguns only. This requires proof of ownership, citizenship, a background check and fifty dollars.

Concealed Carry: Concealed carry is very tightly defined as: if you can't see it by looking at a person, it is concealed. Thus, a woman's purse is concealed. A gym bag is concealed. The glove box is concealed. The hip is not concealed, provided that you are not wearing a jacket that will cover the weapon. The dashboard and the seats are not concealed.

Open Carry: Open carry is the opposite of concealed carry. Anyone may open carry; no permit is required.

Concealed carry without a permit is a felony.

Felonies: Anyone convicted of a felony is not allowed to own or carry a weapon. They cannot purchase weapons. This right can be restored after a certain time and upon application.

That's all I can think of right now. If you have something to add or a correction, don't hesistate.

Apparently our friends who do not live in a country that does not have armed citizens need to be enlightened on the difference between legal and illegal weapons. For one, and I'm going by my state, (Virginia) certain types of ammunition are outright illegal. Certain types of weapons are restricted, but the only weapon that is outright illegal under any circumstances is the Stryker-12 shotgun. Assault rifles, as in those of the class of M-16's and AK-47's are quite legal, assuming that they are purchased legally, have a magazine capacity of no more that ten rounds (note that this applies to all weapons) , no suppressor mount, (you can apply for a permit) and are not capable of automatic fire. Explosives, missile launchers, mortars, grenades and other types of military hardware are also illegal.
Ages:
Long rifles and shotguns are legal to purchase at the age of eighteen. Long rifles include civilian model assault rifles.
Handguns are legal to purchase at the age of twenty-one. A minor can hold title to and inherit weapons, but may not own until they are an adult.

Permits: Concealed carry weapons permit (CCW) can be obtained at the minimum age of twenty-one and are applicable to handguns only. This requires proof of ownership, citizenship, a background check and fifty dollars.

Concealed Carry: Concealed carry is very tightly defined as: if you can't see it by looking at a person, it is concealed. Thus, a woman's purse is concealed. A gym bag is concealed. The glove box is concealed. The hip is not concealed, provided that you are not wearing a jacket that will cover the weapon. The dashboard and the seats are not concealed.

Open Carry: Open carry is the opposite of concealed carry. Anyone may open carry; no permit is required.

Concealed carry without a permit is a felony.

Felonies: Anyone convicted of a felony is not allowed to own or carry a weapon. They cannot purchase weapons. This right can be restored after a certain time and upon application.

That's all I can think of right now. If you have something to add or a correction, don't hesistate.

In North Carolina, you also have to take a State approved course in weapons safety and demonstrate that you can, in fact, hit what you aim at.

Ah right, I did forget about that. One must also take a gun-safety course here in Virginia. These are available at the local community college, the local activity center, or the local NRA branch.

Hey, you guys. Can you buy firearms at your local grocery store down there? If you can, I'm moving South. I'm from New Jersey and this State has some of the most draconian gun laws in the country.

Local grocery store, no. I can think of a local bank that is also a Federally-licenced arms dealer. There are numerous hunting, sports and gun shops close to grocery stores though, so you may have to walk a few dozen yards out of your way. You can buy shotguns at Wal-Mart, if that helps.

Hey, you guys. Can you buy firearms at your local grocery store down there? If you can, I'm moving South. I'm from New Jersey and this State has some of the most draconian gun laws in the country.

LOL! No, not at the corner market either. You can buy a weapon in NC at your local gun store, some of the larger general merchandise stores, at gun shows, and from private citizens.

Come with tanks? Who? The unfathomable evil from the communists? Dude get a clue. If anyone would war against the US on US soil, it would be with weapons that you could never defeat with your missiles or shotguns or whatnot anyway.

psylos would qualify as part of the american definition of 'commie'. i suspect he was making a joke. though i could be wrong; i know i understand the desire for some weapons, just in case. it's not like the us government has taken to disappearing people or anything...

and you'd be amazed at how effective even simple weapons can be against any enemy. granted, not much chance vs. a nuclear strike, but partisans have often put up a hell of a fight against technologically and numerically superior forces.

psylos would qualify as part of the american definition of 'commie'. i suspect he was making a joke. though i could be wrong; i know i understand the desire for some weapons, just in case. it's not like the us government has taken to disappearing people or anything...

and you'd be amazed at how effective even simple weapons can be against any enemy. granted, not much chance vs. a nuclear strike, but partisans have often put up a hell of a fight against technologically and numerically superior forces.

... as we quickly learned in Vietnam!

A rifleman who has been properly trained and is experienced in the use of his ( or her! ) weapon can pick off individual targets at ranges over one mile, depending upon what rifle they are using. The Marine Sniper program turned out some of the best riflemen ever. Their two-man sniper teams are the scourge of opposing forces, and are especially great at taking out officers and non-commissioned officers at great distances. You have no idea how utterly demoralizing this can be to opposing forces!

Four boxes protect our freedom. They are: Soap, Ballot, Jury and Ammo.
That is also the correct sequence of use.
soap?

soap?

The soap box = freedom of speech

The soap box = freedom of speech
ah.

I don't know. Perhapse naiveity?
(And if you really don't know anyone who owns a firearm, which I doubt - you probably just aren't aware of it, you really should widen your circle of friends. I live in a country with some of the strictest firearms laws in the world, and I know people who own legal firearms here - and probably a few who own illegal firearms.)
Well, I only know one person who owns a gun, who lives nowhere near me. I don't own a gun though. But I still feel like my liberties are being taken away, and no amount of ammo will work.

I will just point out that people in the UK don't really tend to feel that oppressed because we're not allowed to own guns. Call us naive, or being controlled by the government, .........


Okay... you're naive and controlled by the government. :)

Well, I only know one person who owns a gun, who lives nowhere near me. I don't own a gun though. But I still feel like my liberties are being taken away, and no amount of ammo will work.

Well, that's exactly what the OP's 4 boxes are about. Do you make your voice heard? Do you vote? Are you in the jury pool?

How do you feel about getting yourself educated in firearms usage and then purchasing a few (assuming it's kegal where you live)?

And, out of curiosity, what specific liberties do you feel are being taken away? And why do you feel that no amount of ammo will work?

What would they come after us with? Gigantic robots, perhaps Godzilla, Gammera, and maybe even Mothra!

You forgot Rodan! Gotta give props to the big R!

...personally, I'm more afraid of MechaStreisand.
(Remember! Aim for the nose!)

Well, that's exactly what the OP's 4 boxes are about. Do you make your voice heard? Do you vote? Are you in the jury pool?

I make my voice heard, only just been able to vote, don't want to be on a jury pool.

How do you feel about getting yourself educated in firearms usage and then purchasing a few (assuming it's kegal where you live)?

I already am ;) [honestly I am, sort of]. Although in Britain, firearms training isn't encouraged, and purchacing certainly isn't. Anyway, currently, all I have in the world is 6 quid, not enough for a gun

And, out of curiosity, what specific liberties do you feel are being taken away? And why do you feel that no amount of ammo will work?

Speech mainly. And these ID cards aren't reassuring either.

It is entirely possible to legally own a gun in the UK just difficult. A serial killer released on a misdemanour can do it and did.

It is entirely possible to legally own a gun in the UK just difficult. A serial killer released on a misdemanour can do it and did.
I know that, which is why I said that I know someone who [legally] owns a gun.

psylos would qualify as part of the american definition of 'commie'. i suspect he was making a joke. though i could be wrong; i know i understand the desire for some weapons, just in case. it's not like the us government has taken to disappearing people or anything...

and you'd be amazed at how effective even simple weapons can be against any enemy. granted, not much chance vs. a nuclear strike, but partisans have often put up a hell of a fight against technologically and numerically superior forces.

A nuclear strike against an armed rebellion situation is cutting off your nose to spite your face, I assume you'll agree. ;)


Maybe we're naive and being oppressed by our government. Or maybe we're not paranoid psychos who think that our government will be out to get us - and in ways we can fight with guns, no less - and that every criminal will be packing an AK-47.

Quite frankly, if it comes to the stage when you NEED an assault rifle in your own home, I think you're pretty much buggered as it is. And yes, if it happens, I will be unprepared. I'll be unprepared if a gas bomb's dropped on my block, too, because I don't have a chemical suit in my closet.

Well, seeing as your bill of rights was the historical basis for most of ours, specifically including the right to bear arms, I'd review which rights the UK government is abusing if I were you. Remember that the American revolutuon was, to paraphrase Churchill, a revolt by good Englishmen against the oppression of a Hun king. We were quite sucessful and didn't end up "buggered" by our having to use the period equivilant of assault rifles. And neither have most liberation movements. (Though many have been screwed up on other accounts.)

I know several people who own guns.

One owns 30-40 various pistols and rifles. Guess that's what happens when you don't have anything to spend your money on. I often joke with him that he's part of the Ohio Militia... ;)

A nuclear strike against an armed rebellion situation is cutting off your nose to spite your face, I assume you'll agree. ;)

obviously. i think the 'there is no way you could stand up to the army' line is both overused and overly fatalistic and defeatist.

Some people are just misguided enough to believe everything they're told, and blessed with luck enough to have never had been demonstrated otherwise upon.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Before we had firearms, we had bows. Prior to bows (I assume), there were slings. Each generation of ranged weaponry seems to up the range and the accuracy of the projectiles in question.

Some refer to firearms as 'an equalizer'. I suppose that's true if you're the (armed) victim, and you have a chance to escape/wound/kill your attacker. I won't argue against someone's right to do so. Banning firearms means that all law abiding citizens are now much easier picking for those who disregard said laws. You can say "but if they dont exist, criminals can't get them".. Except that they do exist, and you cannot magically unmake them, or remove them all at once. It cannot be done, therefore the entire premise of the argument is flawed as applied to the real world. It is also incredibly easy to create a makeshift projectile weapon. A law abiding citizen has no reason to do so in most cases. A criminal needs no reason, except that it further ensures criminal success.

People in countries where this has not become an issue- hey, great, good for you if you like it like that. I've own several firearms, both pistols and rifles (and what the uneducated will call 'assault rifles', because they know no better) over the last decade and a half. I dont have a massive collection, but I've chosen to retain a few, and look to purchase a few specific others. I'm not gearing up to defend against a hostile government, nor to conquer a shopping mall. I simply enjoy the hobby of target shooting. I have worked in the business, and when I hear people talk about "any crazy can own a gun".. well.. sadly, some of them are right. There are restrictions, but I've also seen too many idiots with firearms. In one unfortunate situation, I was forced to pull my own on one of these people. It ended (thankfully) without bloodshed, but it is not a situation I would wish upon anyone. This person was enough of a danger to those around him that I felt compelled to put a very clear stop to it.

Does it make me vote in favor of bans? No. It does encourage me to strongly voice in favor of mandatory competence training, however. To give it a little perspective- how many people licensed to drive? Now how many of them actually drive well in your opinion? I don't care if you can't hit the broad side of a barn, as long as you attempt hitting it safely.

I know several people who own guns.

One owns 30-40 various pistols and rifles. Guess that's what happens when you don't have anything to spend your money on. I often joke with him that he's part of the Ohio Militia... ;)

Seeing as that the intent of the founders (at expressed in both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers) was that all citizens shouild be armed and that the militia consists of all armed citizens, you are exactly on the mark - he really is the militia. And so are all the others who exercise their right.

... the period equivilant of assault rifles.

And that would be???

obviously. i think the 'there is no way you could stand up to the army' line is both overused and overly fatalistic and defeatist.

It's just so good to hear a "lefty" supporting firearms rights! :D
Far too many don't agree.

*And just more proof that the left/right spectrum is invalid. If we could just agree on property.... :D

And that would be???

The rifled musket of course. The poster I was responding to seemed to assume that if we needed to defend our rights with the common weapon military wepon, we were screwedf. We weren't screwed when it was the rifled musket, and we aren't screwed if it needs to be the modern assault rifle*, and we won't be screwed when it's the next big thing.

*And the so called assault rifle ban didn't really cover assault rifles - just the semi-auto look alikes. Real assault rifles should be more common, not less. Of course education needs to go hand in hand with ownership. But that's really whatr was meant by "a well regulated militia" - a well armed and trained citizenry.

The rifled musket of course. The poster I was responding to seemed to assume that if we needed to defend our rights with the common weapon military wepon, we were screwedf. We weren't screwed when it was the rifled musket, and we aren't screwed if it needs to be the modern assault rifle*, and we won't be screwed when it's the next big thing.

*And the so called assault rifle ban didn't really cover assault rifles - just the semi-auto look alikes. Real assault rifles should be more common, not less. Of course education needs to go hand in hand with ownership. But that's really whatr was meant by "a well regulated militia" - a well armed and trained citizenry.

Ah. Ok. I'm not sure when rifling was developed, but I see your point.

I agree with the asterisked statement, by the way.

I make my voice heard, only just been able to vote, don't want to be on a jury pool.

Good, good, and why not?

I already am ;) [honestly I am, sort of]. Although in Britain, firearms training isn't encouraged, and purchacing certainly isn't. Anyway, currently, all I have in the world is 6 quid, not enough for a gun.

Try the UK NRA (http://www.nra.org.uk/). If they are anything like the NRA in the US (and it apprears to be the case, but I just scanned that) you may be able to get some training there - at least an elementary course.

Speech mainly. And these ID cards aren't reassuring either.

Speech and privacy are under assault in many countries. Keep fighting.

Good, good, and why not?

Mainly because it is quite an inconvienience, but I have no real objection to it, other then people saying it is a 'citizen's [sic] duty'

Try the UK NRA (http://www.nra.org.uk/). If they are anything like the NRA in the US (and it apprears to be the case, but I just scanned that) you may be able to get some training there - at least an elementary course.

Interesting, already know how to fire/reload/clean etc an SA-80 rifle, but being a pacifist I doubt I would fight anyone. Being a libertarian, I am fine with others owning guns though. Also, I think that our gvt would be just as arrogant, even if there was an armed populace.


Speech and privacy are under assault in many countries. Keep fighting.
Peacefully of course ;)

Right on. I sleep better at night knowing that my Ithaca Model 37 is less than six feet away in my closet.

I sleep soundly at night not knowing what an "Ithaca Model 37" is, having never seen a real gun ina ll my life, and not knowing anyone who has ever seen a real gun (except one guy from school who is in the marines)

An army of cloned George Bushes.
I'd take that for a couple of reasons, one being that so much of the chimpf*ck's aberrant DNA would replicate him into being even more stunted (on an obviously broader scale) than he already is, and his advanced ineffectuality at anything other than pouting and scowling couldn't ensure him to stay on his mount to attack me or obviously even shout me down in a verbal disagreement without blubbering out words that don't exist (before he coins them in his "strategery"), and the fact that he wouldn't bother to raise an arm against me anyway since he always seems to find some other dolt to do it for him. The odds seem good, the goods seem odd. ;)
The longer term concern would be further contamination of the gene pool, which i do consider a more serious threat, obviously.

It's just so good to hear a "lefty" supporting firearms rights! :D
Far too many don't agree.

heh. the reformist left and center-right trust the government too much. if they took their own rhetoric seriously, they'd probably reconsider their position. how you can call cops and george bush fascists and then think that they should have all the weapons is utterly beyond me. perhaps if they also held that the state shouldn't have weapons either... at least then they'd be consistent.

If we could just agree on property.... :D

you can take my expropriated factory when you pry the keys to the door from my cold dead fingers!